Did we get worse?

[v1rotv2]

Yeah! It's all over now. Everybody knows that the first two days of free agency is where champions are made. Damn this front office! I don't care if they built a team that won a Super Bowl, it was just one lousy Super Bowl. It means nothing, nothing I say!

They gave away future Hall of Fame studs. Oh! the humanity.

OK :sarcasm_off:

 

[TAB420]

Campared to most superbowl teams we lost very little. We knew there would be loses. I feel that on opening day with the way our front office drafts and a couple FA that we will sign before Friday we will be even better.

 

[Snakeeyes007]

Commentary: My goodness, Twisted! How dare you ask "pulse of the team vs. the league" questions on day 2 of the free agency! :sarcasm_off: Sheesh, some peeps get all curmudgeonly if they don't want to engage in the topic raised by the poster. :141847_bnono: It was nice to see a few of our faithful address the questions objectively and straightforwardly. But I digress...

The question is whether you think that getting weaker means that certain teams passed us, and if so who?

Are we still the strongest team in the league? How do we stack up now vs the teams that got better and are threats?

In answer to your post topic question, yes, we're worse at this moment. Losing highly respected leaders like Red, the swagger and talents of Tate, and the familiarity and camaraderie all our guys had playing together, we've regressed a little. Any new guys will need time to acclimate and our guys time to acclimate to the new guys.

On paper, the only team that could remotely be argued to have passed us on day 2 would be Denver. However, we dominated them in all three phases of the game in the Super Bowl, and I still think we're better in 2 out of the three phases of the game, so I would disagree with those that would put them ahead of us for the moment.

1) I would still contend that even losing Red, McDonald, and Clem, our defense is still better than their historic offense, which just lost Decker and Beadles. The currently have less weapons and are weaker on the interior O-line, though they will get back their stud LT.
2) Though we've lost Maragos, Tate, and likely Thurmond so far, our special teams is still better than theirs by a wide margin.
3)The only area Denver might now have an edge over us here on day 2 is our offense vs. their defense. Yes, they lost Champ, but adding the big three of Ware, Ward, and Talib, and getting Von Miller back healthy, compared to our losing Tate, Breno and Rice, gives them an edge there...on paper. Ware, Ward, and Talib are exceptional defensive talents. Ward comes with the least concerns of the three. If Ware can stay healthy, and Talib doesn't run into Welker in practice, or regress to the guy who pulled a gun on his mom, they will have a potentially dynamic defense.

Lastly though, I think we have a distinct 4th area of the game where we have a huge advantage, our head coach. The way Pete prepares our guys to play in championship from day one of practice, and the consistency he demonstrated leading up to and through the Super Bowl, is immensely valuable to our success. Fox made big changes to his guys' routines before the championship game both last year and when he was with Carolina. That is terrible to do to a team, and he didn't learn from his first mistake in this with Carolina, so there's little reason to believe he will change next year is the same Super Bowl scenario plays out.

Bottom line: Hawks still best 'team' in the league, even on day 2...

 

[hoxrox]

As it stands now, our WR corp (and punt return game) got weaker and we are now relying on a certain player to stay healthy.

Our run defense also got weaker, especially on first and second down. Guys that might fill this role are unproven and coming back from major injuries.

Pass pro... that needed an upgrade before any moves were made.

Those are probably the only areas of concern right now.

However, it's way too early. The FO deserves the benefit of the doubt. Looking forward to what they'll do next.

 

[hawknation2014]

As it stands now, our WR corp (and punt return game) got weaker and we are now relying on a certain player to stay healthy.

Our run defense also got weaker, especially on first and second down. Guys that might fill this role are unproven and coming back from major injuries.

Pass pro... that needed an upgrade before any moves were made.

Those are probably the only areas of concern right now.

However, it's way too early. The FO deserves the benefit of the doubt. Looking forward to what they'll do next.

When you pay a guy $13 million, you are forced to rely on him to be healthy. There is good reason to question the efficacy of that original move, but now that that move is a reality, you have to roll with it. Percy has to be our No. 1. And we simply don't have money available to pay Tate $6 million a year.

 

[Hawknballs]

Last time I checked this team still had

Wilson Harvin Baldwin Lynch Okung Unger Avril Bennett Irvin Wagner Wright Smith Maxwell Sherman Thomas Chancellor

and now they have the cap space to keep a lot of them in the future

and we have a 2013 draft class that's gotten to sit back and watch professionals get it done who now get to step up with a year of familiarity under their belt.

Last year's draft was all about this year; this year's draft I imagine we will see them draft more ready-to-play guys as well to plug in on both lines and at WR.

 

[two dog]

If you froze everything right where it is, no more free agent signings, no draft, yeah
i suppose you could say we're slightly worse off.

However, next week and the week after the smart money starts to sign free agents.
Relax, we have the shrewdest front office in the league doing our thinking.

Then comes the draft. That's when our guys really make big medicine.

 

[xCalibur]

As it stands now, our WR corp (and punt return game) got weaker and we are now relying on a certain player to stay healthy.

Our run defense also got weaker, especially on first and second down. Guys that might fill this role are unproven and coming back from major injuries.

Pass pro... that needed an upgrade before any moves were made.

Those are probably the only areas of concern right now.

However, it's way too early. The FO deserves the benefit of the doubt. Looking forward to what they'll do next.

Agreed...but i would like to seem some kind of action...i mean we have lost 8 players this week...while we have replaced them with zero...we need to see some action

 

[brettb3]

As it stands now, our WR corp (and punt return game) got weaker and we are now relying on a certain player to stay healthy.

Our run defense also got weaker, especially on first and second down. Guys that might fill this role are unproven and coming back from major injuries.

Pass pro... that needed an upgrade before any moves were made.

Those are probably the only areas of concern right now.

However, it's way too early. The FO deserves the benefit of the doubt. Looking forward to what they'll do next.

Agreed...but i would like to seem some kind of action...i mean we have lost 8 players this week...while we have replaced them with zero...we need to see some action

I remember people freaking out on this board about the Hawks taking forever to make moves in free agency. This was on day two. The next day we signed Avril. The day after that we signed Bennett.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Did we get worse?

That all depends on who we replace our lost players with.

Losing Tate stings, but if we replace him with someone even better (FA or draft) then we certainly didn't get worse.

Roster spots need to be opened up and constantly competed for.

"Show me" contracts and cheap "i want to win a ring before i retire" deals are usually not made in the first days of FA.

Besides, Schneider has done better in the draft than he has with FA so honestly I would rather have him play to his strengths.

 

[bjornanderson21]

As it stands now, our WR corp (and punt return game) got weaker and we are now relying on a certain player to stay healthy.

Our run defense also got weaker, especially on first and second down. Guys that might fill this role are unproven and coming back from major injuries.

Pass pro... that needed an upgrade before any moves were made.

Those are probably the only areas of concern right now.

However, it's way too early. The FO deserves the benefit of the doubt. Looking forward to what they'll do next.

When you pay a guy $13 million, you are forced to rely on him to be healthy. There is good reason to question the efficacy of that original move, but now that that move is a reality, you have to roll with it. Percy has to be our No. 1. And we simply don't have money available to pay Tate $6 million a year.

Actually the Hawks could've cut their losses with Harvin and they wouldn't have to go into any season counting on him being healthy.

By cutting him right now, we would take a $9.6m dead cap hit (we save $3.8m) and he would not count anything against the 2015 cap.

By keeping him in 2014 we take his full $13.4m cap hit this year AND we would still take a $7.2m dead cap hit in 2015.

Exactly $11m would be saved over the next 2 seasons by cutting him now. That would have been enough to keep Tate around for 2 years. Now, i wouldn't want to pay Tate $5.5m per year but if we are going to compare Tate and Harvin's contracts we would get 2 years of Tate for the price of one year of Harvin.

I know Pete and John wouldn't want to admit the Harvin trade was a mistake so soon, but if his 2014 season is anything like his 2013 season then the damage is done and it only gets worse the longer he stays here.

I love what Pete and John have done here, but they have done a poor job with the WR position as far as who they spend money on and how well they have done with drafting (we just lost the only WR we drafted that actually plays for us).

BUT....I have confidence that they can fix WR if they devote their attention to it.

 

[TXHawk]

As it stands now, our WR corp (and punt return game) got weaker and we are now relying on a certain player to stay healthy.

Our run defense also got weaker, especially on first and second down. Guys that might fill this role are unproven and coming back from major injuries.

Pass pro... that needed an upgrade before any moves were made.

Those are probably the only areas of concern right now.

However, it's way too early. The FO deserves the benefit of the doubt. Looking forward to what they'll do next.

When you pay a guy $13 million, you are forced to rely on him to be healthy. There is good reason to question the efficacy of that original move, but now that that move is a reality, you have to roll with it. Percy has to be our No. 1. And we simply don't have money available to pay Tate $6 million a year.

Actually the Hawks could've cut their losses with Harvin and they wouldn't have to go into any season counting on him being healthy.

By cutting him right now, we would take a $9.6m dead cap hit (we save $3.8m) and he would not count anything against the 2015 cap.

By keeping him in 2014 we take his full $13.4m cap hit this year AND we would still take a $7.2m dead cap hit in 2015.

Exactly $11m would be saved over the next 2 seasons by cutting him now. That would have been enough to keep Tate around for 2 years. Now, i wouldn't want to pay Tate $5.5m per year but if we are going to compare Tate and Harvin's contracts we would get 2 years of Tate for the price of one year of Harvin.

I know Pete and John wouldn't want to admit the Harvin trade was a mistake so soon, but if his 2014 season is anything like his 2013 season then the damage is done and it only gets worse the longer he stays here.

I love what Pete and John have done here, but they have done a poor job with the WR position as far as who they spend money on and how well they have done with drafting (we just lost the only WR we drafted that actually plays for us).

BUT....I have confidence that they can fix WR if they devote their attention to it.

Through his college career and his first 57 games in the NFL Percy Harvin missed a total of only three games. He's not a glass doll who will shatter the first time he's hit hard as some seem to believe. His high ankle sprain in 2012 is an injury that can happen to anyone. During combine physicals prior to being drafted it was discovered that Harvin had impingements and tightness in both hips that might eventually require hip surgery. Now that he's had it there's no reason to think he can't remain relatively healthy for the next few years as he was prior to midseason of 2012.

And you want to cut him?

John Schneider's philosophy is to pay top dollar only for players with rare game-changing talent, all others have a limit he will go up to but not beyond. To say that you would cut a Percy Harvin to retain a Golden Tate is to say that you believe that Schneider should put aside a plan that's in place to build and maintain a championship caliber team over the long haul.

 

[SonicHawk]

Golden Tate is a good NFL receiver. He's not Percy Harvin. There is absolutely no comparison.

Golden Tate got overpaid because the WR market was shallow. And considering that Tate is literally Harvin Jr. you had unnecessary overlap.

 

[volsunghawk]

Golden Tate is a good NFL receiver. He's not Percy Harvin. There is absolutely no comparison.

Golden Tate got overpaid because the WR market was shallow. And considering that Tate is literally Harvin Jr. you had unnecessary overlap.

I don't think Tate necessarily got overpaid, but he certainly got paid more than Seattle was willing to give him. And I think it was due, at least in part, to that overlap of skillsets you mention. That probably reduced his value overall to the team while increasing it to other teams (who have to think, "Hey, we'd like a Harvin-like guy ourselves."

 

[MidwestHawker]

We're currently a bit worse, but of course we're still in the middle of the offseason and there's maneuvering still to be done. At this point the betting market still has us as the favorites for next year's Super Bowl, and that reflects all of the free agent movement so far. I'd say our lead over the league as a whole has been cut into but is still tentatively in place.

 

[Kennedyin92]

I think some are grossly over-valuing the players that we lost. No, this will not look like last year's Super Bowl Champions, but it shouldn't. It should be better. Bryant It seems to me all the hand-wringing began when we lost Tate and I can't really understand why. He's a #2 or 3 receiver on his best day. But of course we could be talking about Maragos, in which case I agree. We won't recover from losing him. :180670:

 

[TXHawk]

No team has had as many roster transactions as the Seahawks since Carroll and Schneider took over. Roster churn is the norm, not the exception, and every year the team has improved. And every year they find productive players who have been overlooked and undervalued by other teams. I'm guessing there will be at least a dozen players on the final 53-man roster who aren't on the roster today and some of them will be unheralded players who turn out to be better than free agents that other teams are spending millions on.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It's March 13th, how the heck can we assume the team got worse?? Still a TON of time left before the season. Draft, Free Agents, etc.

 

[-The Glove-]

As it stands now, our WR corp (and punt return game) got weaker and we are now relying on a certain player to stay healthy.

Our run defense also got weaker, especially on first and second down. Guys that might fill this role are unproven and coming back from major injuries.

Pass pro... that needed an upgrade before any moves were made.

Those are probably the only areas of concern right now.

However, it's way too early. The FO deserves the benefit of the doubt. Looking forward to what they'll do next.

Agreed...but i would like to seem some kind of action...i mean we have lost 8 players this week...while we have replaced them with zero...we need to see some action

That's not a smart way to do business. Our FO is patient. Its been like this for years yet every year people freak out. You let the Bucs and Jags and Browns make all of these big splash moves. They're the bottom of the barrel. That's what they have to do. We're on the top of the mountain.

 

[12evanf]

I'm going to go against the grain and say yes we got worse. But its early and when its all said and done we will have gotten better. Ye of little faith, OP.