Did we have time to run it 4 times??? Media says no...

[Optimus25]

lynch gets close enough on the first try that if he doesn't score he warrants review...clock stops. YES.

 

[Boycie]

So I keep hearing every "expert" analyst claim that throwing on 2nd down was in fact a viable strategy because we simply did not have time to run the ball on all 4 downs...

I'll be honest I am not an expert in football although I'm trying my best to have the precise analysis/conclusions whenever I post... I never played football beyond a casual level. But I am a bit OCD... and I do over analyze the heck out of the Seahawks because I love the team...

So can someone who is more experienced and knowledgeable with running the ball during a "hurry up offense situation" give us a definitive answer whether we could of ran the ball 4 times??? Did we really need to throw the ball on 2nd down, or was that just our coaches trying to make an excuse for the worst play call and worst coaching execution in Super Bowl History?

Once again I'm not an expert and I haven't studied specifically how fast the "fast tempo offenses" are able to run plays. But to me it seems like there is no doubt that if our coaches did their job correctly we could of ran 4 rushing plays.

Because I'm not an expert I want to hear other opinions or facts... it seems like every single media guy I've listened to (been listening 24/7 since the game) has been saying we didn't have time to run the ball 4 times. I'm not sure if they are just lazy with their attention to detail or if they are following a dictated narrative straight from the front office of the NFL but to me it seems like every single media guy is wrong and we in fact could of ran it 4 times if we desired to.

Here is my immediate reaction last night to this situation, feel free to debunk my analysis or give it to us straight. I feel like this whole thing is a mess and nobody has really definitively answered this question which in my opinion is extremely important to understanding the magnitude of this coaching error.


http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=108009&start=50

1) After Jermaine Kearse's miracle catch we call a timeout with 1:06 remaining. We have 1st down at the 5 yard line with another timeout remaining. Time would never be an issue in this scenario whether you throw or run unless your coaches totally goof things up like they did.


2) During the timeout they decided to go with the smart play of running Marshawn Lynch, what they failed to do is to predetermine what they should do on 2nd and maybe even 3rd down (if necessary)... they did not seem to be in any way prepared to save their final timeout for 4th down.

So despite Carroll saying that they were well aware of the situation, based on the simple math involved with the time here what they did was completely opposite of understanding the situation.

The most likely outcome of Lynch running on 1st and 5 was either a touchdown or less than 2 yards to go. The coaches should of anticipated this and told the players if we gain yards on this first down quickly run again with Lynch on 2nd down!


3) Instead of being prepared to quickly run Lynch again (or possibly a QB sneak or designed run) on 2nd down the Seahawks were as slow as they could possibly be... they used the entire 40 seconds (play clock limit)... if they had adequately prepared with their timeout on the previous play there is no reason why they should of ran 40 seconds off the clock.

The Eagles average a play every 20 seconds or so for an ENTIRE GAME right??? So why were the Seahawks in this situation not ready to run the ball on 2nd and 1 when they called a timeout just 1 play ago... it blows my mind...


4) Instead the brilliant Bevell takes 40 seconds off the clock and still decides to call the worst play in NFL history!!!


5) If the Seahawks were prepared to win the game this scenario should of played out like this (and I'm just assuming it goes all the way to 4th down even though Lynch probably scores on 2nd or 3rd for us):

- 1st down Lynch runs with 1:06 remaining
- 2nd down Lynch runs with 40 seconds remaining
- 3rd down Lynch runs with 15 seconds remaining
- Call a timeout with 5 seconds remaining
- 4th down Lynch runs with 5 seconds remaining and we win/lose on this play



Conclusion:

As another poster said Lynch was up after the first down play around the 1 minute mark... this means we just had to run 2 more plays in the next 50 seconds which would easily give us enough time to call our final timeout before our 4th down and leaving the Patriots with no time left.

It's not like our slow offensive line was gonna have to run potentially 80 yards down-field during this series... we were sitting on the 1 yard line there is no excuse to be so slow between plays...

As this ESPN article simply explains there are several teams that average ENTIRE GAMES running plays in under 25 seconds:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/87601/inside-slant-plays-and-time-of-possession

1. Buffalo Bills (21.8)
2. Denver Broncos (23.2)
3. Philadelphia Eagles (23.3)
4. Baltimore Ravens (24.4)
5. New England Patriots (25.0)

So all we had to do is run 2 plays from the 1 yard line in the amount of time some teams average for entire games... There is just no excuse why we wasted 40 seconds and then proceeded to lose the game with the worst call of all time.

I say we should have run it on 2nd down, and then take a timeout if need be, and then take the shot at the end zone with a pass. We would have still had a play on 4th down. I wasn't upset with the pass play, I was upset that we didn't save it for 3rd down.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

If you JUST look at the scenario of 26 seconds remaining and 1 TO, then the play they called made perfect sense. There was not enough time to run it 3 more times, and if they failed to score on a 2nd down run, they'd have been in trouble and would've had to use their last TO. Also, NE's goal line run D package was stout. Twice during the game, on 3rd and short Lynch was stuffed for no gain. He did score on a 3 yard run (on 1st down I believe), but on the 3rd and shorts he was stopped cold. Also Lynch was only 1 for 5 this year scoring from the 1 yard line. Carroll had to be thinking there's a less than 50% chance of scoring on a Lynch run.

HOWEVER, when you look at the whole sequence starting with the Kearse catch, Carroll & Wilson didn't manage the clock and TO's well at all. First, they had to burn a TO after the catch at 1:06 cause they couldn't line up in time. Major fail right there, though as another poster said, they should have been able to at least map out the rest of the strategy during that TO and it didn't look like they did a very good job of that.

Then after the 4 yard run, the clock ran all the way to :26. If that was deliberate to give Brady less time, that's another huge mistake because it compromised their options to score - they couldn't run it 3 more times at that point and they could have if they'd gotten the play off at say 45 seconds. They painted themselves into a corner and kind of had to pass on 2nd down as a result.

It's also probable that Belichick realized the Hawks were in a bit of disarray, and he didn't call a TO himself after the 1st down run to put the pressure on them, knowing that the Hawks couldn't burn their last TO there. Carroll may have assumed that the Pats would call a TO, as everyone else in the world did, but the clock kept running and we can safely assume Belichick didn't lose track of anything there, it was deliberate.

It all added up to a disaster for Seattle, but I think the focus on the play call isn't where they messed up, it was the other mistakes from Kearse's catch to the :26 second mark.

 

[plyka]

So I keep hearing every "expert" analyst claim that throwing on 2nd down was in fact a viable strategy because we simply did not have time to run the ball on all 4 downs...

I'll be honest I am not an expert in football although I'm trying my best to have the precise analysis/conclusions whenever I post... I never played football beyond a casual level. But I am a bit OCD... and I do over analyze the heck out of the Seahawks because I love the team...

So can someone who is more experienced and knowledgeable with running the ball during a "hurry up offense situation" give us a definitive answer whether we could of ran the ball 4 times??? Did we really need to throw the ball on 2nd down, or was that just our coaches trying to make an excuse for the worst play call and worst coaching execution in Super Bowl History?

Once again I'm not an expert and I haven't studied specifically how fast the "fast tempo offenses" are able to run plays. But to me it seems like there is no doubt that if our coaches did their job correctly we could of ran 4 rushing plays.

Because I'm not an expert I want to hear other opinions or facts... it seems like every single media guy I've listened to (been listening 24/7 since the game) has been saying we didn't have time to run the ball 4 times. I'm not sure if they are just lazy with their attention to detail or if they are following a dictated narrative straight from the front office of the NFL but to me it seems like every single media guy is wrong and we in fact could of ran it 4 times if we desired to.

Here is my immediate reaction last night to this situation, feel free to debunk my analysis or give it to us straight. I feel like this whole thing is a mess and nobody has really definitively answered this question which in my opinion is extremely important to understanding the magnitude of this coaching error.


http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=108009&start=50

1) After Jermaine Kearse's miracle catch we call a timeout with 1:06 remaining. We have 1st down at the 5 yard line with another timeout remaining. Time would never be an issue in this scenario whether you throw or run unless your coaches totally goof things up like they did.


2) During the timeout they decided to go with the smart play of running Marshawn Lynch, what they failed to do is to predetermine what they should do on 2nd and maybe even 3rd down (if necessary)... they did not seem to be in any way prepared to save their final timeout for 4th down.

So despite Carroll saying that they were well aware of the situation, based on the simple math involved with the time here what they did was completely opposite of understanding the situation.

The most likely outcome of Lynch running on 1st and 5 was either a touchdown or less than 2 yards to go. The coaches should of anticipated this and told the players if we gain yards on this first down quickly run again with Lynch on 2nd down!


3) Instead of being prepared to quickly run Lynch again (or possibly a QB sneak or designed run) on 2nd down the Seahawks were as slow as they could possibly be... they used the entire 40 seconds (play clock limit)... if they had adequately prepared with their timeout on the previous play there is no reason why they should of ran 40 seconds off the clock.

The Eagles average a play every 20 seconds or so for an ENTIRE GAME right??? So why were the Seahawks in this situation not ready to run the ball on 2nd and 1 when they called a timeout just 1 play ago... it blows my mind...


4) Instead the brilliant Bevell takes 40 seconds off the clock and still decides to call the worst play in NFL history!!!


5) If the Seahawks were prepared to win the game this scenario should of played out like this (and I'm just assuming it goes all the way to 4th down even though Lynch probably scores on 2nd or 3rd for us):

- 1st down Lynch runs with 1:06 remaining
- 2nd down Lynch runs with 40 seconds remaining
- 3rd down Lynch runs with 15 seconds remaining
- Call a timeout with 5 seconds remaining
- 4th down Lynch runs with 5 seconds remaining and we win/lose on this play



Conclusion:

As another poster said Lynch was up after the first down play around the 1 minute mark... this means we just had to run 2 more plays in the next 50 seconds which would easily give us enough time to call our final timeout before our 4th down and leaving the Patriots with no time left.

It's not like our slow offensive line was gonna have to run potentially 80 yards down-field during this series... we were sitting on the 1 yard line there is no excuse to be so slow between plays...

As this ESPN article simply explains there are several teams that average ENTIRE GAMES running plays in under 25 seconds:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/87601/inside-slant-plays-and-time-of-possession

1. Buffalo Bills (21.8)
2. Denver Broncos (23.2)
3. Philadelphia Eagles (23.3)
4. Baltimore Ravens (24.4)
5. New England Patriots (25.0)

So all we had to do is run 2 plays from the 1 yard line in the amount of time some teams average for entire games... There is just no excuse why we wasted 40 seconds and then proceeded to lose the game with the worst call of all time.

You're 100% correct in the sense that they could have run 4 run plays. The reason they allowed 40 seconds to run off the clock was because they were trying to run the time down so New England wouldn't have an opportunity. It was a massive mistake all around.

This is no lie --when they came out with that formation I turn to my brother and say, WTF are they doing? Why is Wilson in the Fing ShotGun formation on the 1yard line? You just gained yards to the 1, and now you're in the shockgun putting your QB on the 5. A throw overr the middle when youre in such a position? It was madness, will always be madness.

 

[hawknation2015]

This is no lie --when they came out with that formation I turn to my brother and say, WTF are they doing? Why is Wilson in the Fing ShotGun formation on the 1yard line? You just gained yards to the 1, and now you're in the shockgun putting your QB on the 5. A throw overr the middle when youre in such a position? It was madness, will always be madness.

:13:
I was preparing to charge the field and strangle Bevell when I saw that formation.