Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers

[Marvin49]

I changed my mind. We can only really go by third party rankings because what you say or what I say are irrelevant. What a third party says has no basis really on how the players will turn out, but its all we got to get something resembling an impartial judgement.

I'm using NFL Networks player rankings from each players Draft Profile

Kevin Pierre-Louis (5.18)------------------------------------Chris Borland (5.38)

Cassius Marsh (5.37)------------------------------------------Aaron Lynch (5.24)

This one isn't really apples to apples though as Lynch will likely be asked to bulk up to play 3-4 DE, not OLB.

Paul Richardson (5.29)----------------------------------------Bruce Ellington (5.38)

Also notable that Richardson was Seattle FIRST pick. Ellington was SFs SIXTH pick.

Eric Pinkins (4.95)---------------------------------------------Dontae Johnson (5.37)

Justin Britt (5.16)-----------------------------------------------Marcus Martin (5.65)

Jimmy Staten (4.8 )---------------------------------------------------Kaleb Ramsey (5.02) (IR)

Garrett Scott (4.9)---------------------------------------------Brandon Thomas (5.42) (IR)

Kiero Small (4.75)----------------------------------------------Trey Millard (5.11)


Kevin Norwood (5.36)----------------------------------------------Jimmie Ward (5.44)


Not even counting the extra picks of Hyde, Reaser, or Acker....or acquisition of Stevie Johnson.

So, as I said before, we have no idea how this picks actually turn out. Perhaps Seattle just sees what others don't and this could be the best draft of all time. Who the hell knows.

However, to put these picks side by side right now and at least try to go by a third party opinion and not that of a Seahawk OR a 49er fan.....it becomes disingenuous to say Seattle clearly did better.

Hi homer

LOL. A Seahawks fan ranks most of their picks better than the Niner picks when most media "scouts" say the opposite and I'M the homer.

Right.

LOL.

 

[Marvin49]

First of all, trying to compare 2014 drafts is just as dumb as grading them. Now, if anyone wants to compare 2011 drafts, have a go at that.

Compare drafting styles? I can do that.
Baalke likes to go into drafts with several extra picks. They are his currency. Baalke likes name brand players a bit more than Schneider, not that he won't go for smaller school guys, but he likes heard of names a bit more. Baalke likes to gamble on recently injured players, IMO because if they don't get to practice or play that first year he gets a bonus year tacked onto their deal, all while they watch and learn. Niner fans know to look at arm length for prospects, Ballke loves long arms. Not that Schneider doesn't, no corners with less than 32, but Schneider is more about SPARQ.

Schneider is not afraid to go into a draft low on picks, he can turn 6 into 9 after the draft starts. Schneider is very unlikely to move up and get somebody. Schneider doesn't believe in throw away picks, I think he really values 7th rounders as much as any other pick. Sweezy and Bowie may very well be starting game 1 this year on the right side. both 7th round picks. Malcom Smith, 7th round pick. Do I think Schneider has done more with less than Baalke? Absolutely. So what? Both have stacked their rosters with good players.

Agree on most points there....particularly on Baalke and long armed athletes.

That's why the Borland pick surprised me a bit.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

First of all, trying to compare 2014 drafts is just as dumb as grading them. Now, if anyone wants to compare 2011 drafts, have a go at that.

Compare drafting styles? I can do that.
Baalke likes to go into drafts with several extra picks. They are his currency. Baalke likes name brand players a bit more than Schneider, not that he won't go for smaller school guys, but he likes heard of names a bit more. Baalke likes to gamble on recently injured players, IMO because if they don't get to practice or play that first year he gets a bonus year tacked onto their deal, all while they watch and learn. Niner fans know to look at arm length for prospects, Ballke loves long arms. Not that Schneider doesn't, no corners with less than 32, but Schneider is more about SPARQ.

Schneider is not afraid to go into a draft low on picks, he can turn 6 into 9 after the draft starts. Schneider is very unlikely to move up and get somebody. Schneider doesn't believe in throw away picks, I think he really values 7th rounders as much as any other pick. Sweezy and Bowie may very well be starting game 1 this year on the right side. both 7th round picks. Malcom Smith, 7th round pick. Do I think Schneider has done more with less than Baalke? Absolutely. So what? Both have stacked their rosters with good players.

Pretty solid right there.

We'd have to take into account the additional future draft picks SF garnered in this draft. Seattle has no additional future picks.

San Fransisco does a solid job of getting quality players. I don't think there is any question Seattle is much better at developing players. The two teams are very dissimilar in how they approach team building. SF definitely goes more by the book, and is simply the best in the business at maximizing trade down returns. This is a component I would love Seattle to emulate.

Conversely, Seattle is the best in the business at taking raw players and turning them into quality players. I'm sure that goes a long way into our reluctance to trade current draft stock for future draft stock. Simply because I'm sure if John could, he'd draft 20 players every year. Day 3 prospects are like a horde of Christmas toys to us.

Seattle's drafts are almost assuredly going to be puzzling. Even to Seattle fans who follow this process for months. San Fransisco's drafts are very much easier to understand from the draftnik perspective. I expect SF is going to continue to vie for division supremacy based on their ability to keep stockpiling quantity of picks in the first through third range -- and taking guys that have quality in the general consensus way.

This draft isn't going to be known until August of 2015. So many of these players are very clearly 'reload' players for guys who can easily be projected to walk in free agency next season. This year really should provide a good barometer for the relative success of the 2013 drafts. This is the year both of our redshirt prospects should show if they are going to make a contribution. In this way, Seattle and SF are similar. Getting talent/value late on guys who are going to be a year away.

 

[Hawkfan77]

I changed my mind. We can only really go by third party rankings because what you say or what I say are irrelevant. What a third party says has no basis really on how the players will turn out, but its all we got to get something resembling an impartial judgement.

I'm using NFL Networks player rankings from each players Draft Profile

Kevin Pierre-Louis (5.18)------------------------------------Chris Borland (5.38)

Cassius Marsh (5.37)------------------------------------------Aaron Lynch (5.24)

This one isn't really apples to apples though as Lynch will likely be asked to bulk up to play 3-4 DE, not OLB.

Paul Richardson (5.29)----------------------------------------Bruce Ellington (5.38)

Also notable that Richardson was Seattle FIRST pick. Ellington was SFs SIXTH pick.

Eric Pinkins (4.95)---------------------------------------------Dontae Johnson (5.37)

Justin Britt (5.16)-----------------------------------------------Marcus Martin (5.65)

Jimmy Staten (4.8 )---------------------------------------------------Kaleb Ramsey (5.02) (IR)

Garrett Scott (4.9)---------------------------------------------Brandon Thomas (5.42) (IR)

Kiero Small (4.75)----------------------------------------------Trey Millard (5.11)


Kevin Norwood (5.36)----------------------------------------------Jimmie Ward (5.44)


Not even counting the extra picks of Hyde, Reaser, or Acker....or acquisition of Stevie Johnson.

So, as I said before, we have no idea how this picks actually turn out. Perhaps Seattle just sees what others don't and this could be the best draft of all time. Who the hell knows.

However, to put these picks side by side right now and at least try to go by a third party opinion and not that of a Seahawk OR a 49er fan.....it becomes disingenuous to say Seattle clearly did better.

Hi homer

LOL. A Seahawks fan ranks most of their picks better than the Niner picks when most media "scouts" say the opposite and I'M the homer.

Right.

LOL.

LOL.

Homer

LOL.

 

[Marvin49]

First of all, trying to compare 2014 drafts is just as dumb as grading them. Now, if anyone wants to compare 2011 drafts, have a go at that.

Compare drafting styles? I can do that.
Baalke likes to go into drafts with several extra picks. They are his currency. Baalke likes name brand players a bit more than Schneider, not that he won't go for smaller school guys, but he likes heard of names a bit more. Baalke likes to gamble on recently injured players, IMO because if they don't get to practice or play that first year he gets a bonus year tacked onto their deal, all while they watch and learn. Niner fans know to look at arm length for prospects, Ballke loves long arms. Not that Schneider doesn't, no corners with less than 32, but Schneider is more about SPARQ.

Schneider is not afraid to go into a draft low on picks, he can turn 6 into 9 after the draft starts. Schneider is very unlikely to move up and get somebody. Schneider doesn't believe in throw away picks, I think he really values 7th rounders as much as any other pick. Sweezy and Bowie may very well be starting game 1 this year on the right side. both 7th round picks. Malcom Smith, 7th round pick. Do I think Schneider has done more with less than Baalke? Absolutely. So what? Both have stacked their rosters with good players.

Pretty solid right there.

We'd have to take into account the additional future draft picks SF garnered in this draft. Seattle has no additional future picks.

San Fransisco does a solid job of getting quality players. I don't think there is any question Seattle is much better at developing players. The two teams are very dissimilar in how they approach team building. SF definitely goes more by the book, and is simply the best in the business at maximizing trade down returns. This is a component I would love Seattle to emulate.

Conversely, Seattle is the best in the business at taking raw players and turning them into quality players. I'm sure that goes a long way into our reluctance to trade current draft stock for future draft stock. Simply because I'm sure if John could, he'd draft 20 players every year. Day 3 prospects are like a horde of Christmas toys to us.

Seattle's drafts are almost assuredly going to be puzzling. Even to Seattle fans who follow this process for months. San Fransisco's drafts are very much easier to understand from the draftnik perspective. I expect SF is going to continue to vie for division supremacy based on their ability to keep stockpiling quantity of picks in the first through third range -- and taking guys that have quality in the general consensus way.

This draft isn't going to be known until August of 2015. So many of these players are very clearly 'reload' players for guys who can easily be projected to walk in free agency next season. This year really should provide a good barometer for the relative success of the 2013 drafts. This is the year both of our redshirt prospects should show if they are going to make a contribution. In this way, Seattle and SF are similar. Getting talent/value late on guys who are going to be a year away.

Both agree and disagree.

BTW...the only future pick they got was a 2015 4th rounder, but it's a wash because that's what they traded for Stevie Johnson. The pick for Stevie also has a chance to become a 3rd, but hasn't been released yet what the conditions are.

I agree with most of what you are saying from a player acquisition perspective, but I disagree with what you are saying from a player development standpoint.

The 49ers don't have any issues with player development. The Seahawks are very, very good at it, but I don't think it's THAT much better.

I think the difference is really two fold...

1) The 49ers have a number of players who have been on the team for awhile...so there is less need to play younger players. When they HAVE had spots to fill with young players, those guys have been really, really good. Bowman wasn't a starter until this coaching staff took over. Neither was Ray McDonald. This staff drafted Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid. Many think that those are the only good players they have taken or something. No, those are just the only ones who have cracked the starting lineup because the 49ers have one of the best starting lineups in the NFL. Seattle is kinda now in that same position. Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think a single Seahawk started as a rookie last year. Bad draft? Seahawks version of Niners 2012 draft? No. Superior talent already on the team and few openings for player to earn a spot.

2) The Seahawks are VERY good with player development, but I don't think it starts there. I don't think they can make a superstar out of anyone. They are just very good at seeing specific aspects of particular players games that they think that can make something out of. They see aspects of a players game that other don't. They know what they are looking for and don't really care what others think. Its a great advantage to have a GM who knows so well exactly what his coaches can get out of a particular player and that's what the Seahawks have.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Here are some more comparisons for the list:

Number of Super Bowls won last season:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

Seahawks 3-0 49ers

Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

Seahawks 0-1 49ers

Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...

 

[Marvin49]

Here are some more comparisons for the list:

Number of Super Bowls won last season:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

Seahawks 3-0 49ers

Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

Seahawks 0-1 49ers

Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...

I gotta say....for all of the complaints I've seen over here about arrogant Niner fans....

....some of you seem to have no problem jumping right into those shoes.

 

[Scottemojo]

Here are some more comparisons for the list:

Number of Super Bowls won last season:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

Seahawks 3-0 49ers

Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

Seahawks 0-1 49ers

Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...

I gotta say....for all of the complaints I've seen over here about arrogant Niner fans....

....some of you seem to have no problem jumping right into those shoes.

Sometimes the truth is an arrogant and vicious MFer, isn't it?

 

[Marvin49]

Here are some more comparisons for the list:

Number of Super Bowls won last season:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

Seahawks 3-0 49ers

Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

Seahawks 0-1 49ers

Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...

I gotta say....for all of the complaints I've seen over here about arrogant Niner fans....

....some of you seem to have no problem jumping right into those shoes.

Sometimes the truth is an arrogant and vicious MFer, isn't it?

Lol.

No worries...your boys earned it. It's just funny how quickly so many fans have essentially become exactly what they b*tched about for YEARS.

 

[drdiags]

Human nature. We all think we will be better than the guys before us. "If I were a millionaire (billionaire), I would not do the ....".

 

[Laloosh]

Marv, you make a valid point but people are just enjoying the moment. Don't judge

 

[Smelly McUgly]

I literally laughed out loud at Rob crapping on Marvin and the other lurking 49er fans with that list of comparisons. One of the funniest posts I've seen on any board in a long time, especially when Marvin followed up with "SO ARROGANT HOW ARROGANT CAN YOU BE."

This made my day.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Here are some more comparisons for the list:

Number of Super Bowls won last season:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

Seahawks 3-0 49ers

Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

Seahawks 0-1 49ers

Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...

I gotta say....for all of the complaints I've seen over here about arrogant Niner fans....

....some of you seem to have no problem jumping right into those shoes.

Let me get my frigging violin out.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Here are some more comparisons for the list:

Number of Super Bowls won last season:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

Seahawks 3-0 49ers

Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

Seahawks 0-1 49ers

Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...

 

[Marvin49]

Marv, you make a valid point but people are just enjoying the moment. Don't judge

No judgment. Just amusement.

 

[Marvin49]

Here are some more comparisons for the list:

Number of Super Bowls won last season:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

Seahawks 1-0 49ers

Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

Seahawks 3-0 49ers

Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

Seahawks 0-1 49ers

Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...

I gotta say....for all of the complaints I've seen over here about arrogant Niner fans....

....some of you seem to have no problem jumping right into those shoes.

Let me get my frigging violin out.

.....weak.

 

[Marvin49]

Human nature. We all think we will be better than the guys before us. "If I were a millionaire (billionaire), I would not do the ....".

True.

 

[Marvin49]

I literally laughed out loud at Rob crapping on Marvin and the other lurking 49er fans with that list of comparisons. One of the funniest posts I've seen on any board in a long time, especially when Marvin followed up with "SO ARROGANT HOW ARROGANT CAN YOU BE."

This made my day.

Clearly my point was too complex for you.

No worries.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

I literally laughed out loud at Rob crapping on Marvin and the other lurking 49er fans with that list of comparisons. One of the funniest posts I've seen on any board in a long time, especially when Marvin followed up with "SO ARROGANT HOW ARROGANT CAN YOU BE."

This made my day.

Clearly my point was too complex for you.

No worries.

No, your point was just stupid and incredibly whiny considering that you're a dude that chest-thumps over past Lombardis on Webzone before coming over here to pretend that you're a reasonable and thoughtful human being.

It's funny to see Rob makes a post that winds you up, though I do get that you would be an expert at recognizing obnoxious bragging since you have lots of personal experience with it. The difference is that Rob did it knowing that you would be here post-haste to amuse us by crying about it whereas you do it because you really believe your own garbage.

 

[Marvin49]

I literally laughed out loud at Rob crapping on Marvin and the other lurking 49er fans with that list of comparisons. One of the funniest posts I've seen on any board in a long time, especially when Marvin followed up with "SO ARROGANT HOW ARROGANT CAN YOU BE."

This made my day.

Clearly my point was too complex for you.

No worries.

No, your point was just stupid and incredibly whiny considering that you're a dude that chest-thumps over past Lombardis on Webzone before coming over here to pretend that you're a reasonable and thoughtful human being.

It's funny to see Rob makes a post that winds you up, though I do get that you would be an expert at recognizing obnoxious bragging since you have lots of personal experience with it. The difference is that Rob did it knowing that you would be here post-haste to amuse us by crying about it whereas you do it because you really believe your own garbage.

1) It didn't wind me up. I thought it was funny. I've said so multiple times but reading comprehension doesn't appear to be your strong suit.

2) Give me 1 example of me chest thumping about past Lombardi's on the 'zone and I'll be impressed. Don't speak about that which you clearly do not know. You are just making sh*t up and arguing what you want to be true. That's called a straw man. Sorry. It's BS.

Anyone who actually reads what I say on the zone would probably agree that while I'm a bit less muted, my opinion isn't any different.

3) Your "quote" of me saying "SO ARROGANT HOW ARROGANT CAN YOU BE" shows that you didn't understand what I was saying. My point was about hypocrisy, not arrogance.