Does Shaun Alexander deserve to be in the HOF?

pittpnthrs

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Welshers":1rwze9i2 said:
pittpnthrs":1rwze9i2 said:
godawg":1rwze9i2 said:
I can only imagine what Marshawn would have been able to accomplish running behind Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson.

Why exactly would Lynch be better? Alexander was quicker and had better vision.

Well, Lynch won a SB which has proven to be very important to Hall voters. He also had maybe the greatest run in NFL history. Fair or not, moments like that will stick in the minds of voters come vote time. Lynch was a dominant strong, physical runner. Very different from Sean Alexander. I'd like to see them both in the Hall, but I'm a homer of course. I've read quite a few pundits who think Lynch will be there in the end. I'd actually give him a better shot than Alexander because of the things I mentioned above.

My best guess?
They both get there eventually. It will take a while.

What does the fact that Lynch had an elite defense and a much better QB to help him get a SB ring have to do with him eclipsing Alexanders output behind Alexanders Oline? Why would a RB that runs through a defender be more effective than a RB that avoids that defender totally?
 

keasley45

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pittpnthrs":2okmlvqd said:
chris98251":2okmlvqd said:
pittpnthrs":2okmlvqd said:
godawg":2okmlvqd said:
I can only imagine what Marshawn would have been able to accomplish running behind Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson.

Why exactly would Lynch be better? Alexander was quicker and had better vision.

[youtube]BDOBejlx7Us[/youtube]

7 possible tackles broken, Shaun would not have even made it thru the line and would have went down.

These runs are what Lynch did, and that person that said Shaun would have had only an additional 200 yards in his career? How many yards was this run for extra yards, I call BS on that observation.

You are missing the point though. Lynch and Alexander are totally different runners. Lynch's MO was running through people and getting yards after contact. Alexander's MO was making people miss and flowing down the field and through lanes. Some people think that if Lynch had Alexanders Oline, Lynch would have put up much better numbers than Alexander and thats just not the case, Apples and oranges. Its the same as saying Lynch would have been better than Barry Sanders in Detroit. Its just not true. They were just different types of runners.

I dont understand the logic here. Lynch's 'MO" was gaining yards no matter what the defense did or for that matter, the offensive line did. It wasnt to run people over. But if you were there to stop him and he couldnt go around you, he would go through you. Dude was way more elusive and had incredible vision. Lynch without a doubt would have flourished well beyond what he did in seattle had he played behind Walt and Hutch. Jesus. his beast mode run was about stutter stepping, finding a crease that maybe 3 or 4 other backs in the league might have hit, and then making the entirety of the Saints defense look like peewee flunkies. THE OLINE GAVE HIM A SLIVER, and he manufactured the rest.

Shaun had vision when he was up to speed and their was an obvious hole already created whether off tackle or on a swing play or pitch out. But look at his highlight reel. ITS THE SAME HIGHLIGHT REEL AS THE HAWKS OFFENSIVE LINE HIGHLIGHT REEL. Not so necessarily with truly gifted, HOF backs. They run through you, around, you, over you... and they do that whether they are running behind a great line or not (Usually). And i say usually because there are RBs like Emmit Smith who racked up HUGE numbers behind a HOF line to the point you cant deny him HOF status.. he broke Sweetness's record. But you tell me, stats aside, whether based on his raw gift as a runner whether you'd take him ahead of Sanders, LT, TD, Lynch, Payton, Brown, Dickerson, Warner, and probably half dozen other all-time great backs. He, like Shaun, made a career gaining big yards AFTER the play execution and O line got him to the second level. Anyone who has played the game at TE, RB and WR will tell you that finding daylight and a running lane when you are almost at full speed and when you've gotten through the teeth of the DLINE and are on LB's trying to get an angle on you or DB' slicing across the field is COMPLETEY different and infinitely easier than fabricating yards AT or BEHIND the LOS when the blocking isnt there.

Count the number of SA highlight runs that dont involve him running through a wide open hole in the defense. They are few and far between. If the defender was there to stop him before he got to the second level or at mid to top speed , SA wasnt gonna do a lot. Thats why he was a different back sans Hutch and the continuity on the O-Line that brought him success prior to 2005.

Lynch would have crushed it with Walt, Hutch, Gray, etal. No doubt. He killed it with far less, fabricating legend from scraps.

Being soft at the point of contact IS NOT a defining characteristic of a HOF back. You dont have to be Campbell or Lynch. You can be cut from the Sanders, LT or Faulk cloth and juke the crap out of guy. (BTW, Lynch could do that too - Google Lynch jukes Ray Lewis - Classic). Shaun got the yards that were on the table when the blocking worked well. Not when it didnt.
 

IndyHawk

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sdog1981":1o7ckt6j said:
fenderbender123":1o7ckt6j said:
Davis also has 2 Super Bowl wins and 3 All Pros. And I don't think he deserved to be in it.

NFL MVP, Super Bowl MVP, 20 rushing TD season and a 2000 yard rushing season. He is a Hall of Fame player. He could have played for 15 more seasons rushing for 0 yards every year and still be a HOF running back, due to his 1996 to 1998 seasons.
SA had an MVP,27 tds,1880 rushing and got hosed in SB-Thats a HOF season too.
Here look at his stats closely and tell me he shouldn't be in.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... exSh00.htm
 

OrangeGravy

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scutterhawk":1kooa5ck said:
Jerhawk":1kooa5ck said:
Yes. He was a great back with great vision.

He should not be punished for playing behind a great O line. He was a master at the cutback, rarely went down on first contact and led the team to our first Superbowl appearance.
Plus, he had FIVE TD's in the first HALF OF A GAME (Vikings I believe)....It was almost an automatic for a TD anytime he got into the Red Zone...Nothing wrong with NOT taking UNNECCESARY hits.
18 TD's in one Regular season.
So YES.
I disagree. Selfish player. Any RB who hooks slides (giving them self up) in the flat when there wasn't a defender within 15 yards of them, should be banned from the HOF and the ROH. He's my most hated player of all time (Hawk player)
 

OrangeGravy

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hawkfan68":m3jwl304 said:
Those who say that SA shouldn't be in the HOF, do you believe Chris Johnson should be in it?

Their stats are nearly identical. I wouldn't say Johnson was a "tough runner" either. Johnson played more seasons that SA but has near equal career stats to him.

SA career stats - https://www.nfl.com/players/shaun-alexander/stats/career
CJ career stats - https://www.nfl.com/players/chris-johnson/stats/career

Next, SA racked up a 1000+ yards from 2000-2006. How is it he was terrible between the 20s? Please explain. I saw him take a 88 yard TD to the house against the Cards. Seems like he did fine between 20s then. He had 17 runs in his career of 40+ yards. Just because he didn't run through people like a Lynch doesn't mean he wasn't effective between 20s. He was tremendously productive back.
Neither of them should be in
 
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Welshers

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pittpnthrs":162jn4mm said:
Welshers":162jn4mm said:
pittpnthrs":162jn4mm said:
godawg":162jn4mm said:
I can only imagine what Marshawn would have been able to accomplish running behind Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson.

Why exactly would Lynch be better? Alexander was quicker and had better vision.

Well, Lynch won a SB which has proven to be very important to Hall voters. He also had maybe the greatest run in NFL history. Fair or not, moments like that will stick in the minds of voters come vote time. Lynch was a dominant strong, physical runner. Very different from Sean Alexander. I'd like to see them both in the Hall, but I'm a homer of course. I've read quite a few pundits who think Lynch will be there in the end. I'd actually give him a better shot than Alexander because of the things I mentioned above.

My best guess?
They both get there eventually. It will take a while.

What does the fact that Lynch had an elite defense and a much better QB to help him get a SB ring have to do with him eclipsing Alexanders output behind Alexanders Oline? Why would a RB that runs through a defender be more effective than a RB that avoids that defender totally?
As I said, fair or not, those things stick with the voting committee. Winning a SB has proven to be vital to getting into the hall
 

FattyKnuckle

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scutterhawk":2d3ykll4 said:
Jerhawk":2d3ykll4 said:
Yes. He was a great back with great vision.

He should not be punished for playing behind a great O line. He was a master at the cutback, rarely went down on first contact and led the team to our first Superbowl appearance.
Plus, he had FIVE TD's in the first HALF OF A GAME (Vikings I believe)....It was almost an automatic for a TD anytime he got into the Red Zone...Nothing wrong with NOT taking UNNECCESARY hits.
18 TD's in one Regular season.
So YES.

Paul Maguire was a blight on the broadcasting profession but his remarks coming back from halftime of that game were epic. "In case you missed it, folks, the Seahawks won the toss and elected to kick the bejeezus out of the Vikings".

That said, one game doesn't get you in. Yes, he was a red zone monster and he glided through the second and third level like a greased ballerina. But I question his heart and effort in grunt situations. I've never seen an MVP-level RB who I didn't want to get the ball on 3rd and 1. Maybe in a weak class he could get in but I don't think I've seen someone inducted since he's been eligible who I'd put him over.
 

Ad Hawk

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Welshers":8kf6j8cg said:
As I said, fair or not, those things stick with the voting committee. Winning a SB has proven to be vital to getting into the hall

Hmmm... I wonder how that would affect someone like Larry Fitzgerald.

No, SB win on resume has an impact, but not overwhelmingly so.
 

FattyKnuckle

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Eighty":3ud1wyfb said:
He broke the single season TD record and won an MVP. It's not like it was a one year wonder either, he had many good and great seasons.

He deserves a spot in my opinion.

Eighty,
Go Hawks
He was the first and possibly still only player to have 15+ combined TDs in 5 straight years. I just think he's a guy whose stats don't tell the whole story.
 
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OrangeGravy":31p7f0xo said:
scutterhawk":31p7f0xo said:
Jerhawk":31p7f0xo said:
Yes. He was a great back with great vision.

He should not be punished for playing behind a great O line. He was a master at the cutback, rarely went down on first contact and led the team to our first Superbowl appearance.
Plus, he had FIVE TD's in the first HALF OF A GAME (Vikings I believe)....It was almost an automatic for a TD anytime he got into the Red Zone...Nothing wrong with NOT taking UNNECCESARY hits.
18 TD's in one Regular season.
So YES.
I disagree. Selfish player. Any RB who hooks slides (giving them self up) in the flat when there wasn't a defender within 15 yards of them, should be banned from the HOF and the ROH. He's my most hated player of all time (Hawk player)
HAHAHA!!!!! Shaun Alexander is living rent free in your head! :lol: Let the hatred flow through your veins
 

Seanhawk

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OrangeGravy":2juxr8er said:
scutterhawk":2juxr8er said:
Jerhawk":2juxr8er said:
Yes. He was a great back with great vision.

He should not be punished for playing behind a great O line. He was a master at the cutback, rarely went down on first contact and led the team to our first Superbowl appearance.
Plus, he had FIVE TD's in the first HALF OF A GAME (Vikings I believe)....It was almost an automatic for a TD anytime he got into the Red Zone...Nothing wrong with NOT taking UNNECCESARY hits.
18 TD's in one Regular season.
So YES.
I disagree. Selfish player. Any RB who hooks slides (giving them self up) in the flat when there wasn't a defender within 15 yards of them, should be banned from the HOF and the ROH. He's my most hated player of all time (Hawk player)

Slides down when there wasn't a defender within 15 yards of him? Ok. Name the game where that happened.
 

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Statistically, he has a great argument. He's a victim of the logjam at his position in Canton.
 

Rat

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OrangeGravy":3v1jmk0k said:
I disagree. Selfish player. Any RB who hooks slides (giving them self up) in the flat when there wasn't a defender within 15 yards of them, should be banned from the HOF and the ROH.

749431
 

keasley45

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IndyHawk":1wysuzwt said:
sdog1981":1wysuzwt said:
fenderbender123":1wysuzwt said:
Davis also has 2 Super Bowl wins and 3 All Pros. And I don't think he deserved to be in it.

NFL MVP, Super Bowl MVP, 20 rushing TD season and a 2000 yard rushing season. He is a Hall of Fame player. He could have played for 15 more seasons rushing for 0 yards every year and still be a HOF running back, due to his 1996 to 1998 seasons.
SA had an MVP,27 tds,1880 rushing and got hosed in SB-Thats a HOF season too.
Here look at his stats closely and tell me he shouldn't be in.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... exSh00.htm

He shouldn't be in. Its not all about the stats. he wasn't individually HOF great. He has HOF stats because he had a great O-Line opening gashes in defenses for him to chew up yards.
 

Rat

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If we're going to invalidate Shaun's resume because he had two good offensive linemen, are we calling Russ overrated as well? It's much easier to rack up wins at an all-time pace when you have an historically elite defense backing you up, not to mention Beast, who is getting called our GOAT RB by several people in this thread. Judging RBs by Super Bowl Championships is absurd anyway, but I'll bet Alexander would have one if our XL defense had only given up eight points.
 

keasley45

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Rat":3iuqowx2 said:
If we're going to invalidate Shaun's resume because he had two good offensive linemen, are we calling Russ overrated as well? It's much easier to rack up wins at an all-time pace when you have an historically elite defense backing you up, not to mention Beast, who is getting called our GOAT RB by several people in this thread. Judging RBs by Super Bowl Championships is absurd anyway, but I'll bet Alexander would have one if our XL defense had only given up eight points.

Its not because he had two great offensive linemen, its because he had an absurdly good and consistently intact o-line for his best years.

As to Russ. Russ wasnt talked about as a great QB (even by his own fans), if not mentioned in circles as the best in the league until AFTER the slow decline of the LOB, the loss of a complete running game, and as a result, him proving that REGARDLESS OF THE HELP HE GOT, HE WOULD MAKE SEATTLE COMPETITIVE.

I literally hear that every week. That no matter who Seattle faces. No matter how bad the O-line, No Matter how many RB's we have on IR, if we have Russel Wilson, we have a chance. THAT is the sign of a transcendent talent. Even if you play them right, they will still beat you based on individual ability, skill, and intangibles.

You can say that about all of the great RB's because with the exception of a few that were just on ridiculously talented teams for extended periods, it didnt matter whether or not the QB was great, or their o-line had multiple HOFers, they were a force to be reckoned with and you HAD to account for them. Teams HAD to account for Marshawn Lynch EVEN THOUGH THEY KNEW THEY COULD HIT HIM IN THE BACKFIELD BEFORE HE REACHED ANY SEMBLENCE OF A HOLE IN THE O-LINE. They knew they could play solid defense, smack our offense around and it didnt matter because Lynch would get his at some point. Shaun - you could get him easy if you could win the LOS. He was routinely brought down by one man.

Again, SOFT AT THE POINTOF CONTACT AND EASILY BROUGHT DOWN are NOT defining characteristics of a HOF RB.
 

seafence82

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keasley45":1covyyc6 said:
Again, SOFT AT THE POINTOF CONTACT AND EASILY BROUGHT DOWN are NOT defining characteristics of a HOF RB.

What a terrible argument, and illustrates part of the unreasonable hate to Shaun. If he puts up MVP numbers and is significantly more effective than a runner who is not 'soft and easily brought down' , would you rather take Shaun or TJ Duckett?

The HOF is primarily made up of RBs like Shaun who could make chunk plays in the open field 99% other rb could not resulting in amazing stats from their greatness. If you want to discredit Shaun for running behind a great OL, then half the HOF at all positions will be discredited also for the other great players that helped make their life easier to accumulate their stats/wins.

He is a borderline HOF due to his combination of power, vision, and elusiveness in the open field that resulted in him leaving as the best rb in Hawk history and a historic 5year stretch. He was also a better goaline back than Lynch.
 

RolandDeschain

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Alexander's stats would be drastically lower if he played behind the same O-Line Lynch did.

It's kind of annoying how some people think Shaun Alexander is a HoF back based on pure stats and nostalgic memories of his time in Seattle. More objectivity needs to be brought to this table...

If Shaun had played with Lynch's ferocity and willingness to run through b1tch3s every single down, he'd have like 40 more TDs and 6,000 more yards for his career stats, and THAT would absolutely be HoF-worthy - not just because of the stats, but because of the elite, sustained EFFORT. That EFFORT was only visible in the red zone from Shaun, and THAT is why he DOES NOT DESERVE to be in the Hall of Fame.
 

bevellisthedevil

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[youtube]Nd-BSrVsRDs[/youtube]

Nobody has even mentioned that Mack Strong was trucking people for Alexander also.

Alexander was a good back with good vision with a very good line and the best fullback in football minus maybe Larry Centers.

No way should he be inducted. I don't think he should be vilified either.
 

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