Doug Baldwin signs extension for 4 years, $46 million

[bigtrain21]

Popeye,

Doesn't efficiency matter more than raw stats? I get his stats were amazing for that stretch at the end of the year but he didn't appear to be doing anything different towards the end of the season than he was his entire career. He was just getting a ton more opportunities.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I'm done feeding the troll.....

I suggest this is a great idea. As I mentioned above, I'm pretty much done reading posts from Santa Clara fans when the subject matter is the Seahawks. They're predictably negative and thus predictably boring.

 

[hawk45]

A lot of BS flying around in this thread.

Baldwin is a fantastic Seahawk and valuable and clutch player. But it's self-evident that if he returns to being just a good slot receiver and safety valve for Russ that this is an overpay. And it may not be Baldwin's fault at all. If the offense doesn't utilize him to his fullest potential, i.e. stabbing teams relentlessly by quick-passing to Baldwin after he gets that off-the-line separation he gets so well, then he isn't worth the money because his value to the team is just a good slot receiver.

They are totally paying on spec based on the last half of last season. Not that he can do precisely what he did, but that he will continue to be a greater part of the passing offense, a better, or as-good-as Wes Welker contributor. And I think there is good reason to think they will be right, and that this will be money well spent.

Yeah some Niner fan pointed it out, and yeah pointing this out went against the grain of a celebration thread, I don't know, but there are way bigger contrarian Seahawk fans on this board and they don't get the same violent allergic reaction to the truth.

To be honest, pointing out the risks made the thread interesting, more of a discussion than a 5 page squee thread. It surely must be possible to celebrate our hopes that he will live up to the deal while also acknowledging it's a pretty rich deal and he'll have to continue to elevate above "good slot dude" to be worth the money. And that while we probably trust Baldwin himself to earn the money, it's a question mark as to whether our passing offense will operate in a fashion that allows him to.

 

[Popeyejones]

Popeye,

Doesn't efficiency matter more than raw stats? I get his stats were amazing for that stretch at the end of the year but he didn't appear to be doing anything different towards the end of the season than he was his entire career. He was just getting a ton more opportunities.

Both efficiency and actual production as measured through stats obviously matter.

The point I was making is that in raising their expectations fans have a habit of trying to impute the former into the latter (e.g. 9ers fans mistakenly do this with Hyde and will likely end up disappointed, the 9ers did this for Torrey's deal too), without realizing that they typically have an inverse relationship when compared against lower efficiency higher volume alters.

 

[Popeyejones]

I was laughing at your use of that stretch to argue that he was not important to the offense before that stretch, .

Huh? Okay.

So you're having fits over something you made up for me that I never said. :lol:

In other words, you're having an argument with your own imagination. Don't really see what I have to contribute to that, so I'll just bow out I guess.

 

[Popeyejones]

I'm done feeding the troll.....

I suggest this is a great idea. As I mentioned above, I'm pretty much done reading posts from Santa Clara fans when the subject matter is the Seahawks. They're predictably negative and thus predictably boring.

I'll ask again:

I said I thought it was a good and fair deal for both sides. I said it many times over even.

Would you be less offended if I said I thought he got underpaid? Or is it that you'd be less offended if I said I thought he got overpaid?

Or is it just that anything I say you'll decide to interpret as a sign of hidden and insulting nefarious motivations?

 

[Jville]

Returning to the celebration of Baldwin's signing ...... “Before I became a leader, I thought success was all about building myself up,” he told reporters June 9 after practice. “Once I became a leader, I realized that success is about building others up. That’s where I’m at right now. I’m focused on helping the other guys as much as I can, giving them the tools they need to be successful, just like Sidney Rice did for me when I first came in.

“That’s the mentality we have as veterans now . . . there’s a lot of new guys, so we want to be able to pass on that experience and wisdom we have growing up in this program.”

The Mature Doug Baldwin >>> [urltargetblank]http://sportspressnw.com/2220472/2016/seahawks-baldwin-gets-4-year-extension-46m[/urltargetblank]

 

[HansGruber]

But it's self-evident that if he returns to being just a good slot receiver and safety valve for Russ that this is an overpay.

How is your argument "self-evident"? You've made a claim with no substantive proof, which contradicts what we can all see on game day. I would argue that your claim that Baldwin is "just a good slot receiver and safety valve" is inaccurate, and that game video would contradict this statement.

Baldwin often plays on the outside, and has made most of his catches along the sidelines, on post routes, and in seams. This would contradict your "slot receiver" argument. I'm curious how you can label Baldwin a "slot receiver" when he primarily plays outside, and then claim that this is somehow "self-evident".

And it may not be Baldwin's fault at all. If the offense doesn't utilize him to his fullest potential, i.e. stabbing teams relentlessly by quick-passing to Baldwin after he gets that off-the-line separation he gets so well, then he isn't worth the money because his value to the team is just a good slot receiver.

Your second paragraph appears to contradict your first. So is Baldwin "just a good slot receiver" or not? If the "that off-the-line separation he gets so well" point is true, doesn't that contradict your "just a good slot receiver" argument?

They are totally paying on spec based on the last half of last season. Not that he can do precisely what he did, but that he will continue to be a greater part of the passing offense, a better, or as-good-as Wes Welker contributor. And I think there is good reason to think they will be right, and that this will be money well spent.

I don't understand the Wes Welker statement. Are you claiming that Baldwin plays a similar role in our offense to the role Welker played in NE? I'm not sure how you could make that analogy. I do not see the two as similar at all. In fact, one could argue that no receiver in NE is used the way Baldwin is in Seattle's offense.

Yeah some Niner fan pointed it out, and yeah pointing this out went against the grain of a celebration thread, I don't know, but there are way bigger contrarian Seahawk fans on this board and they don't get the same violent allergic reaction to the truth.

Is it impossible for someone to disagree with you or others without it being a "violent allergic reaction to the truth"? In my experience, people with this mentality tend to be "contrarians" - often easily accepting a "truth" simply because it flies in the face of convention, instead of passing some logical test or set of proofs. I've found that people who quickly accept something as "truth" often strongly oppose evidence that contradicts that "truth".

To be honest, pointing out the risks made the thread interesting, more of a discussion than a 5 page squee thread. It surely must be possible to celebrate our hopes that he will live up to the deal while also acknowledging it's a pretty rich deal and he'll have to continue to elevate above "good slot dude" to be worth the money. And that while we probably trust Baldwin himself to earn the money, it's a question mark as to whether our passing offense will operate in a fashion that allows him to.

So we are not allowed to celebrate without calling Baldwin a "good slot dude"? Because I would never say that. He's not a "slot receiver". Why would I call someone a "slot receiver" who is not a slot receiver?

 

[KiwiHawk]

Doug Baldwin started to be more productive when Bevell had a chat to Wilson about getting the ball out quickly and into smaller windows, trusting in his receivers to make a play instead of waiting until they were wide open to throw the ball (which was resulting in sacks, incompletions, running out of bounds, and in general a lack of offensive production).

When Wilson started to get the ball out faster, EVERYTHING about the offense changed. Suddenly the line was better, the receivers were more productive, Wilson's ratings went through the roof, the running game was more productive, and EVERYTHING worked (sort of - then we hit Carolina and Wilson couldn't find his ass with both hands).

There is no reason to believe that will not continue to be the case this coming season and for the remainder of Baldwin's contract because the fundamental change was in Wilson, not Baldwin.

It's a team sport, guys. Analysing one player in a vacuum doesn't work. I don't care if the metric is stats or perception or whatever - the play of a receiver is dependent on the QB who is dependent on the running back, the OL, the field position provided by the defense and special teams, the strength of the opposing team's offense and defense, the down-and-distance, and the coaching philosophy.

Every one of those factors impacts how we use Baldwin, but one of the biggest is the trust relationship between QB and receiver. That's there now, and there's no sign it will change.

 

[Ruminator]

I haven't looked at any numbers, but I imagine he'll soon start to threaten a couple of Largent's team records. Either way, the Baldwin legacy has begun.

Uhh, I love ADB as much as the next guy, but he isn't even a third of the way to Largent's catch/yards/TD totals. He's not even halfway to Brian Blades catch total, and barely halfway to his yards total.

We'll see if he's getting a little closer in 4 years, eh?

 

[Vikes45]

Baldwin has to be one of the clutchest WR's in my recent memory. Good signing by the Seahawks.

 

[PasteyNuTTeR]

Way to be ADB! You deserve it.

 

[SeAhAwKeR4life]

Don't get me wrong, I like having him around for a while, but the pricetag seems a bit steep for a guy with only one, over 1000 yard season (barely), who's never had an 80 reception year?

 

[volsunghawk]

Don't get me wrong, I like having him around for a while, but the pricetag seems a bit steep for a guy with only one, over 1000 yard season (barely), who's never had an 80 reception year?

Given the way Seattle's offense has operated the last several years, it's a bit of a mistake to just judge by counting stats, don't you think?

 

[Ad Hawk]

Don't get me wrong, I like having him around for a while, but the pricetag seems a bit steep for a guy with only one, over 1000 yard season (barely), who's never had an 80 reception year?

Given the way Seattle's offense has operated the last several years, it's a bit of a mistake to just judge by counting stats, don't you think?

Unless you count touchdowns per target, or some kind of "clutchness" factor. :2thumbs:

 

[sutz]

Don't get me wrong, I like having him around for a while, but the pricetag seems a bit steep for a guy with only one, over 1000 yard season (barely), who's never had an 80 reception year?

Given the way Seattle's offense has operated the last several years, it's a bit of a mistake to just judge by counting stats, don't you think?

I certainly do. "Value to the team" means a bit more to me than quantity of catches and yards. The rapport he has built up with Wilson is kind of invaluable.

Plus, in today's NFL, I'm not so sure that's an outlandish amount of money for a quality WR.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Don't get me wrong, I like having him around for a while, but the pricetag seems a bit steep for a guy with only one, over 1000 yard season (barely), who's never had an 80 reception year?

Keep up with the times. Baldwin has had 67 catches for 1000 yards and 14 touchdowns over his past 11 regular-season games alone.

It's useless to value a player by any other yardsticks than current performance and projected future performance. What he did 2-3 years ago is irrelevant.

 

[McGruff]

Don't get me wrong, I like having him around for a while, but the pricetag seems a bit steep for a guy with only one, over 1000 yard season (barely), who's never had an 80 reception year?

Given the way Seattle's offense has operated the last several years, it's a bit of a mistake to just judge by counting stats, don't you think?

Seattle almost has to pay receivers more due to their lack of production. Only way to get them to come and stay is to pay them more.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

Great re-signing! Absolutely love it. And it's going to look dirt cheap a couple of years from now.

Also, for those talking about that "unsustainable" stretch to close out last year, he's started this year with 20 catches for 276 yards and two touchdowns. Still on a pretty good pace to make that contract look well worth it, especially considering he's done that with a gimpy Wilson and a sputtering offense, and half a game with a brand new backup quarterback.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Doug Baldwin started to be more productive when Bevell had a chat to Wilson about getting the ball out quickly and into smaller windows, trusting in his receivers to make a play instead of waiting until they were wide open to throw the ball (which was resulting in sacks, incompletions, running out of bounds, and in general a lack of offensive production).

When Wilson started to get the ball out faster, EVERYTHING about the offense changed. Suddenly the line was better, the receivers were more productive, Wilson's ratings went through the roof, the running game was more productive, and EVERYTHING worked (sort of - then we hit Carolina and Wilson couldn't find his ass with both hands).

There is no reason to believe that will not continue to be the case this coming season and for the remainder of Baldwin's contract because the fundamental change was in Wilson, not Baldwin.

It's a team sport, guys. Analysing one player in a vacuum doesn't work. I don't care if the metric is stats or perception or whatever - the play of a receiver is dependent on the QB who is dependent on the running back, the OL, the field position provided by the defense and special teams, the strength of the opposing team's offense and defense, the down-and-distance, and the coaching philosophy.

Every one of those factors impacts how we use Baldwin, but one of the biggest is the trust relationship between QB and receiver. That's there now, and there's no sign it will change.

Baldwin had 8 catches for 82 yards in that playoff game. It looked like we went back to a Lynch type offense until it was too late and went back to what had worked earlier. Lynch had 6 touches for 20 yards, we didn't even use Christine Michael either. That game was two identity conflicting with each other for the 1st half of the game. Of course the two interception (1 of them a pick 6) by Wilson didn't help but man he was getting lit up in that game constantly.