dogorama
New member
We got spoiled that 2013 team was one of the best of all tme.
kearly":2cjs3jwg said:JS is pretty much always in bargain shopping mode. I think they will let the market determine where they spend their money, rather than feeling they have a gun to their head to sign specific players. Whether they spend on OL or not will be decided by the market.
I think they also really want a pass rusher, but Pete hinted that it would be in the draft. I sure hope not, this draft is not that great for pass rushers, and Seattle's success at pass rusher so far has been almost entirely with veterans (Brock, Clemons, Avril, Bennett).
Scottemojo":2yxdkn79 said:I think much of our available cap will be spent on our line. Okung might be gone, in fact Okung might want to be gone, but if his injury and surgery scare people away, the self represented Okung might return to Seattle and no income tax for a season. He would have to be a relative bargain. I feel like there is about a 25 percent chance it breaks this way.
My gut tells me we get a vet center in free agency. Our line is Gilliam, Glow at LG, vet center, Sweezy (sorry haters, but they love Sweezy in the front office), and Britt back to RT. Sokoli is the wild card, but to me counting on him before 2017, or ever, is pie in the sky.
Davidess":3s2u9hjo said:IMHO I think if there is going to be any FA signings I think they should be Oline. CBs on our rosters can be coached up and they have been in our system. weve seen what happens when a FA CB comes in and has to try to adapt.
I would be down with trying to sign Osemele (formerly of Bal) top OGs get around 8-8.5m a year (i.e Mankins, Yanda etc.) I would be down if they give Osemele 8.5m~ and sign a veteran C (Wisniewski or Manuel Ramirez)
Also the thing about letting Rubin and Mebane go in FA makes the whole bigger on that side of the trenches. I can see Rubin coming back but not mebane. Mebane has been a solid players and I think he could be back on a cheaper deal but depends on what his asking price is. The reason I think he declined renegotiating his contract this last season was because he had a one year left.
What JS said during a radio interview days after the Carolina game was that they are not going to force a position. you do that and it can be bad. he reiterated they will go BPA over need. Makes sense. This draft is mainly a DT draft and back up RB draft. lots of solid back up RBs with potential to spot start.
I wouldn't be surprised if the hawks go after FA Veteran O-lineman (Osemele, Boone, Jahri Evans etc.) and then in the draft go after a Mebane/Rubin replacement and than a Hybrid DT/DE (Jonathan Bullard for example)
RichNhansom":2cwjswho said:Great info Firbee. What is your thoughts on center?
My belief is it is as or more critical than even the LT. A poor center will often put his guards in poor position and can leave the LT on an island and vulnerable. I really believe it is very difficult to even trully evaluate the other lineman when the center struggles.
Do you see Lewis as the answer? Or is there someone you feel could step right in and upgrade the position? Also would you be willing to be aggressive at the position?
I have said many times I think we need to start by upgrading our blocking from the TE, FB and RB but that really is a bandaide to give a cushion for the line to grow and gel. Again though it won't matter if the center is below average, your net results will always be below average.
MontanaHawk05":12zqf4np said:Big problem with the OP is that he's assuming that a draft pick will automatically and immediately turn out better than what we have. It's pretty common thinking, but pretty risky. Especially when you're talking about kicking two players on each line to the curb. I could see the hope of the draft making up for one starter at a position, but not two.
Believe it or not, the Seahawks have not been drafting 7th round for ALL their linemen. Okung was a first-round pick. Moffitt was a third-rounder. James Carpenter was a first-rounder, and when fans went "Ehhh, let him go, he can't be THAT hard to replace", it turned out they were wrong. Now we have Justin Britt - also a high pick. Same with Unger; Seattle traded him out of health concerns. He didn't miss a game for the Saints, while we watched Drew Nowak struggle to block thin air.
"Blow it up and start over, it can't get worse" thinking is a bad move for the team at this juncture. You might get a first-round stud, but you might also get a first-round bust who's happy to slack it out for a big contract for four years before he starts selling insurance. There are a lot of such players in the draft, and a lot of them in the league. Cap room is a valid concern, but so is continuity, scheme familiarity, and experience.
I also think OP vastly undervalues both Sweezy (in run blocking, at least) and both Rubin and Mebane. Flashy stats aren't the whole story.
firebee":2u6uvxvc said:RichNhansom":2u6uvxvc said:Great info Firbee. What is your thoughts on center?
My belief is it is as or more critical than even the LT. A poor center will often put his guards in poor position and can leave the LT on an island and vulnerable. I really believe it is very difficult to even trully evaluate the other lineman when the center struggles.
Do you see Lewis as the answer? Or is there someone you feel could step right in and upgrade the position? Also would you be willing to be aggressive at the position?
I have said many times I think we need to start by upgrading our blocking from the TE, FB and RB but that really is a bandaide to give a cushion for the line to grow and gel. Again though it won't matter if the center is below average, your net results will always be below average.
Honestly, I see us resigning JP, tendering Lewis, keeping Nowak and running with whoever performs the best out of the bunch. They're the most likely to call the right shots after being in the system, they're inexpensive and they're the devil we know. I could see us taking Martin or Kelly with our first pick, but it's hard to pass on a player like Rankins or Jaylon Smith if they happen to slide to us. This would be an especially difficult situation if a combination of those players slid to us after we traded down to pick up extra picks later in the draft. If I was looking at FA for a Center, I'd say Senio Kelemete would be a great value option to consider for competition at Center and Guard... Just seems like he'd be a good fit after playing for Sarkisian at Washington.
I think the FO needs to be looking for free agents that will play at a level above what people expect them to play. They need to get back to looking for players that have something to prove... I feel like Schwartz, Sowell and Kelemete are guys in free agency that have something to prove. I feel like Schwartz has been overshadowed by Thomas and Mack, Sowell was put on the back burner after a couple years in the NFL when Veldheer was brought in, and Kelemete's been a utilitiy lineman stuck on a depth chart behind guys like Evans and Unger.
The foundation for my plan though... Is us drafting Sebastian Tretola in the 2nd round, even if it looks necessary to package and trade up. I, myself, wouldn't be opposed to us spending a 1st on him, but many would call that a huge reach. Nevermind the fact that he's been the starting LG at Arkansas and hasn't allowed a sack in two years. Let's also just ignore that he's had less than 10 false starts over the last two years. Doesn't sound like a 1st round pick to me.
Willyeye":23uvgkpr said:firebee":23uvgkpr said:RichNhansom":23uvgkpr said:Great info Firbee. What is your thoughts on center?
My belief is it is as or more critical than even the LT. A poor center will often put his guards in poor position and can leave the LT on an island and vulnerable. I really believe it is very difficult to even trully evaluate the other lineman when the center struggles.
Do you see Lewis as the answer? Or is there someone you feel could step right in and upgrade the position? Also would you be willing to be aggressive at the position?
I have said many times I think we need to start by upgrading our blocking from the TE, FB and RB but that really is a bandaide to give a cushion for the line to grow and gel. Again though it won't matter if the center is below average, your net results will always be below average.
Honestly, I see us resigning JP, tendering Lewis, keeping Nowak and running with whoever performs the best out of the bunch. They're the most likely to call the right shots after being in the system, they're inexpensive and they're the devil we know. I could see us taking Martin or Kelly with our first pick, but it's hard to pass on a player like Rankins or Jaylon Smith if they happen to slide to us. This would be an especially difficult situation if a combination of those players slid to us after we traded down to pick up extra picks later in the draft. If I was looking at FA for a Center, I'd say Senio Kelemete would be a great value option to consider for competition at Center and Guard... Just seems like he'd be a good fit after playing for Sarkisian at Washington.
I think the FO needs to be looking for free agents that will play at a level above what people expect them to play. They need to get back to looking for players that have something to prove... I feel like Schwartz, Sowell and Kelemete are guys in free agency that have something to prove. I feel like Schwartz has been overshadowed by Thomas and Mack, Sowell was put on the back burner after a couple years in the NFL when Veldheer was brought in, and Kelemete's been a utilitiy lineman stuck on a depth chart behind guys like Evans and Unger.
The foundation for my plan though... Is us drafting Sebastian Tretola in the 2nd round, even if it looks necessary to package and trade up. I, myself, wouldn't be opposed to us spending a 1st on him, but many would call that a huge reach. Nevermind the fact that he's been the starting LG at Arkansas and hasn't allowed a sack in two years. Let's also just ignore that he's had less than 10 false starts over the last two years. Doesn't sound like a 1st round pick to me.
Tretola is not known for his pass protection regardless of zero sacks, and it would not be worth using a 1st round pick for another guy that won't protect Wilson. Bear in mind, if nobody special falls to the #26 pick, it would be awesome to trade the 1st round pick for a 2nd and 3rd round pick. That would give us 5 picks between like the #38 overall pick to the #98 pick. That would also give us a little bit earlier pick in the 3rd round, a pick where we could likely still get Tretola...and if he's gone, I think Glasgow or Dahl would be a great alternative. I'd love for them to take Martin or Kelly with the earlier 2nd round pick. A DT at #56 would probably work out great, or maybe even OT Clark or Tretola.
firebee":2vg844n7 said:Willyeye":2vg844n7 said:firebee":2vg844n7 said:RichNhansom":2vg844n7 said:Great info Firbee. What is your thoughts on center?
My belief is it is as or more critical than even the LT. A poor center will often put his guards in poor position and can leave the LT on an island and vulnerable. I really believe it is very difficult to even trully evaluate the other lineman when the center struggles.
Do you see Lewis as the answer? Or is there someone you feel could step right in and upgrade the position? Also would you be willing to be aggressive at the position?
I have said many times I think we need to start by upgrading our blocking from the TE, FB and RB but that really is a bandaide to give a cushion for the line to grow and gel. Again though it won't matter if the center is below average, your net results will always be below average.
Honestly, I see us resigning JP, tendering Lewis, keeping Nowak and running with whoever performs the best out of the bunch. They're the most likely to call the right shots after being in the system, they're inexpensive and they're the devil we know. I could see us taking Martin or Kelly with our first pick, but it's hard to pass on a player like Rankins or Jaylon Smith if they happen to slide to us. This would be an especially difficult situation if a combination of those players slid to us after we traded down to pick up extra picks later in the draft. If I was looking at FA for a Center, I'd say Senio Kelemete would be a great value option to consider for competition at Center and Guard... Just seems like he'd be a good fit after playing for Sarkisian at Washington.
I think the FO needs to be looking for free agents that will play at a level above what people expect them to play. They need to get back to looking for players that have something to prove... I feel like Schwartz, Sowell and Kelemete are guys in free agency that have something to prove. I feel like Schwartz has been overshadowed by Thomas and Mack, Sowell was put on the back burner after a couple years in the NFL when Veldheer was brought in, and Kelemete's been a utilitiy lineman stuck on a depth chart behind guys like Evans and Unger.
The foundation for my plan though... Is us drafting Sebastian Tretola in the 2nd round, even if it looks necessary to package and trade up. I, myself, wouldn't be opposed to us spending a 1st on him, but many would call that a huge reach. Nevermind the fact that he's been the starting LG at Arkansas and hasn't allowed a sack in two years. Let's also just ignore that he's had less than 10 false starts over the last two years. Doesn't sound like a 1st round pick to me.
Tretola is not known for his pass protection regardless of zero sacks, and it would not be worth using a 1st round pick for another guy that won't protect Wilson. Bear in mind, if nobody special falls to the #26 pick, it would be awesome to trade the 1st round pick for a 2nd and 3rd round pick. That would give us 5 picks between like the #38 overall pick to the #98 pick. That would also give us a little bit earlier pick in the 3rd round, a pick where we could likely still get Tretola...and if he's gone, I think Glasgow or Dahl would be a great alternative. I'd love for them to take Martin or Kelly with the earlier 2nd round pick. A DT at #56 would probably work out great, or maybe even OT Clark or Tretola.
Not a big fan of LeRaven Clark... If we had a true starting LT that was already seated at the position and under contract; I'd be okay with him because we'd have time to develop him and groom him for the LT position, but even then... their are no guarantees. I don't think 1st day picks should be developmental guys. They should be guys that you think can step in and legitimately start on day one. I'm kind of looking at Jaylon Smith or Rankins as a likely candidate for us in the first round, but I like Tretola too. He's a guy I think will start and make a positive impact on day one, regardless of which team lands him. He's the best Guard in the draft and when I look at Wilson's strengths, as long as he's not getting pressured up the middle and has outlets to escape the pressure coming around the edge, he can make plays. If the gates open on the interior, very very bad things happen in the backfield. I also like Dahl and he's likely to be there for us on the 2nd day, maybe even early on the 3rd day, based on current projections. Of course... all projections go out the window on draft day.
firebee":1su26hxq said:Davidess":1su26hxq said:IMHO I think if there is going to be any FA signings I think they should be Oline. CBs on our rosters can be coached up and they have been in our system. weve seen what happens when a FA CB comes in and has to try to adapt.
I would be down with trying to sign Osemele (formerly of Bal) top OGs get around 8-8.5m a year (i.e Mankins, Yanda etc.) I would be down if they give Osemele 8.5m~ and sign a veteran C (Wisniewski or Manuel Ramirez)
Also the thing about letting Rubin and Mebane go in FA makes the whole bigger on that side of the trenches. I can see Rubin coming back but not mebane. Mebane has been a solid players and I think he could be back on a cheaper deal but depends on what his asking price is. The reason I think he declined renegotiating his contract this last season was because he had a one year left.
What JS said during a radio interview days after the Carolina game was that they are not going to force a position. you do that and it can be bad. he reiterated they will go BPA over need. Makes sense. This draft is mainly a DT draft and back up RB draft. lots of solid back up RBs with potential to spot start.
I wouldn't be surprised if the hawks go after FA Veteran O-lineman (Osemele, Boone, Jahri Evans etc.) and then in the draft go after a Mebane/Rubin replacement and than a Hybrid DT/DE (Jonathan Bullard for example)
I'm actually opposed to spending big on any free agent, especially on the interior of the O-Line considering the talent on the interior in the draft. I think our best bet for value and quality in free agency is Mitchell Schwartz. The word is he'd be a great left tackle if the Browns didn't have a franchise LT, Joe Thomas, playing for them. He also has the skillset to move inside and play guard. Joe Thomas, himself, has said that he thinks Schwartz might be better than he is. Then add Bradley Sowell. Sowell started at LT for the Cardinals until the Cards brought in Veldheer, another guy that's a franchise LT in the league.
I like the odds of pulling a starting left tackle out of two younger guys that've been behind a couple franchise left tackles on the depth chart. Arians and Jackson also run a variation of the zone blocking spread WCO like we do, so their should be some similarities in schemes and terminology, which would make transitions for Schwartz and Sowell a lot smoother and quicker. Harbaugh runs more of a classic WCO with 2 back sets, so I begin to worry about how an offensive lineman will transition from that offense to our offense. Sowell and Schwartz are scheme fits for our offense that are young and talented with no injury concerns. Schwartz hasn't missed a snap since he entered the league and Sowell hasn't been injured yet either.
We need to draft Sebastian Tretola. IMO, he's the guy that solidifies our interior. Just an absolute monster and not a fatty monster, a big athletic hulking monster. He's the one guy I look at in this draft and think... We absolutely have to get him into a Seahawks uniform. He'd be a gamechanger for our offensive line, especially if you get Sowell or Schwartz to step up and stabilize the left tackle position. Then you can move one of the two over to right tackle to compete with Gilliam. If Gilliam improved even more and could man right tackle, you could move Schwartz inside to guard and he'd be a stud there. He has the combination of strength, agility, size and technique to be effective anywhere on the line. If I'm going to spend over 5 million a year on an offensive lineman, Schwartz is the guy I'd put the money on.
As for later round draft prospects, I wouldn't be opposed to us drafting Fahn Cooper, the starting right tackle at Ole Miss and Laremy Tunsil's backup at left tackle. Considered a very good swing tackle prospect that could also possibly move inside to compete for the start at guard in the NFL. Joe Haeg is another guy that has my interest... Needs to get stronger and play with better leverage to be more effective and improve on his run blocking, but his footwork and pass protection is top notch. He stays in front of the pass rush and doesn't get beat by speed. He just gives up ground more than he should and may have problems with the stronger pass rushers in the NFL. Cable's forte is improving on the strength of linemen and improving their leverage, so I could see Cable rounding Haeg out into a really really good offensive tackle.
Davidess":1kwpkica said:firebee":1kwpkica said:Davidess":1kwpkica said:IMHO I think if there is going to be any FA signings I think they should be Oline. CBs on our rosters can be coached up and they have been in our system. weve seen what happens when a FA CB comes in and has to try to adapt.
I would be down with trying to sign Osemele (formerly of Bal) top OGs get around 8-8.5m a year (i.e Mankins, Yanda etc.) I would be down if they give Osemele 8.5m~ and sign a veteran C (Wisniewski or Manuel Ramirez)
Also the thing about letting Rubin and Mebane go in FA makes the whole bigger on that side of the trenches. I can see Rubin coming back but not mebane. Mebane has been a solid players and I think he could be back on a cheaper deal but depends on what his asking price is. The reason I think he declined renegotiating his contract this last season was because he had a one year left.
What JS said during a radio interview days after the Carolina game was that they are not going to force a position. you do that and it can be bad. he reiterated they will go BPA over need. Makes sense. This draft is mainly a DT draft and back up RB draft. lots of solid back up RBs with potential to spot start.
I wouldn't be surprised if the hawks go after FA Veteran O-lineman (Osemele, Boone, Jahri Evans etc.) and then in the draft go after a Mebane/Rubin replacement and than a Hybrid DT/DE (Jonathan Bullard for example)
I'm actually opposed to spending big on any free agent, especially on the interior of the O-Line considering the talent on the interior in the draft. I think our best bet for value and quality in free agency is Mitchell Schwartz. The word is he'd be a great left tackle if the Browns didn't have a franchise LT, Joe Thomas, playing for them. He also has the skillset to move inside and play guard. Joe Thomas, himself, has said that he thinks Schwartz might be better than he is. Then add Bradley Sowell. Sowell started at LT for the Cardinals until the Cards brought in Veldheer, another guy that's a franchise LT in the league.
I like the odds of pulling a starting left tackle out of two younger guys that've been behind a couple franchise left tackles on the depth chart. Arians and Jackson also run a variation of the zone blocking spread WCO like we do, so their should be some similarities in schemes and terminology, which would make transitions for Schwartz and Sowell a lot smoother and quicker. Harbaugh runs more of a classic WCO with 2 back sets, so I begin to worry about how an offensive lineman will transition from that offense to our offense. Sowell and Schwartz are scheme fits for our offense that are young and talented with no injury concerns. Schwartz hasn't missed a snap since he entered the league and Sowell hasn't been injured yet either.
We need to draft Sebastian Tretola. IMO, he's the guy that solidifies our interior. Just an absolute monster and not a fatty monster, a big athletic hulking monster. He's the one guy I look at in this draft and think... We absolutely have to get him into a Seahawks uniform. He'd be a gamechanger for our offensive line, especially if you get Sowell or Schwartz to step up and stabilize the left tackle position. Then you can move one of the two over to right tackle to compete with Gilliam. If Gilliam improved even more and could man right tackle, you could move Schwartz inside to guard and he'd be a stud there. He has the combination of strength, agility, size and technique to be effective anywhere on the line. If I'm going to spend over 5 million a year on an offensive lineman, Schwartz is the guy I'd put the money on.
As for later round draft prospects, I wouldn't be opposed to us drafting Fahn Cooper, the starting right tackle at Ole Miss and Laremy Tunsil's backup at left tackle. Considered a very good swing tackle prospect that could also possibly move inside to compete for the start at guard in the NFL. Joe Haeg is another guy that has my interest... Needs to get stronger and play with better leverage to be more effective and improve on his run blocking, but his footwork and pass protection is top notch. He stays in front of the pass rush and doesn't get beat by speed. He just gives up ground more than he should and may have problems with the stronger pass rushers in the NFL. Cable's forte is improving on the strength of linemen and improving their leverage, so I could see Cable rounding Haeg out into a really really good offensive tackle.
I think Osemele is someone the hawks should go after or some other Vet. possibly at C. don't want to go into the year with a bunch of youngins on the Oline or we might be in the same boat that we were in this year. Going oline in FA for a for sure Vet is definitely a better gamble than hoping Oline from the draft can play right away ( not always the case). I would be down with going after Schwartz. consistent starter and solid OT. Just think we need Interior Vet Olineman. we currently have a hole at both OG positions and C. id feel safer with a vet in either of those spots as appose to a couple rookies. Constantly got destroyed up the middle for the better part of the season because our OG/C play was so bad.
don't take this as an attack haha just an observation.