DT Malik McDowell expected to be released

[hawknation2018]

A better retort would have been to refine your statement with the truthful rebuttal that the Seahawks draft classes from 2015-17 have been "incredibly average," when they were in fact spectacular from 2010-12.

What changed during these two periods in the franchise's history, i.e. the Pete Carroll era? Carroll goes to the war room to win the franchise's only championship. Schneider gets the keys to the front office and delivers with above-average draft acquisitions.

The funnier question is how long can you "own" the right to deprive a person of playing for the employer of his choice due to the NFL's named pursuit of parity? Virtually chained to your contracted upon desire to play football.

 

[hawknation2018]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/985989596235358214[/tweet]

Frustrating.

Great job, "RapSheet" getting this incredible scoop on the definition of "near future." :irishdrinkers:

 

[jammerhawk]

So drafting a player in the 2nd round that is under valued by other teams for character, but thought to be a first round talent; who then is youhfully stupid and hurts himself ending his careeer is worse than trading three draft picks a 1st, 4th, and 7th??? Compounding this the second player is then given a league leading type huge contract with significant guarantees and thereafter spends a season on PUP recovering from a known to the team hip injury the team knew had to have surgery. This player who is thereafter cut after playing just 7 games b/c he is a locker room cancer and a malingerer leaving the team to eat his contract that proved to be a disasaster in terms of return on equity in every sense is worse than the second round only rookie contract guaranteed money only scenario? I guess those expensive 7 games meant something as McDowell so far has had none.

Both situations truly sucked but the Harvin fiasco was a genuine disaster on every level b/c the player had obvious talent but couldn’t or wouldn’t fit in. So was Graham b/c he too couldn’t be fit in, and Richardson was simply another sub optimal trade for a player who had zero intention of wanting to stay and one the team over paid for in every way. These three trades arguably closed the Seahawks window by creating cap complications and returning now nothing.

I do think it is fair to be critical of the FO for all three trades but McDowell simply compounded a problem that the FO created by trading for other team’s problems in the vague hope they could be fit in here. Trading for Richardson was stupid when the team had zero cap to sign him, trading for Graham was mistake when it became apparent. He could not be fit in to our O without forcing him to change his style of play which was why we wanted him. I’ve already described above how bad the Harvin deal was for the team and how it hurt. Harvin to me is likely in top level of all time bad trades for the league.

Your point about the lack of fresh talent inflow from the draft is a good one but Harvin being not as bad a McDowell iin terms of disaster level doesn’t hunt.

 

[HawkGA]

Question for those in the know . . . there has been talk of the cap hit this will cause. How does that all work if he never made it to the active roster? That is, how is a signing bonus spread out if a player never accrues years? Does it just work off a regular calendar then?

 

[jammerhawk]

If he’s cut the team has 2 options, take the cap hit of the the whole remaining bonus this season, or treat the cut as a post June first cut and spread it out over two seasons this year and next.

 

[pittpnthrs]

What changed during these two periods in the franchise's history, i.e. the Pete Carroll era? .

Scot McCloughan

 

[original poster]

Question for those in the know . . . there has been talk of the cap hit this will cause. How does that all work if he never made it to the active roster? That is, how is a signing bonus spread out if a player never accrues years? Does it just work off a regular calendar then?

That's exactly what is throwing me. There are certain clauses in the CBA whereby players can forfeit money due to NFI injuries, but they must be written into the contract.

As it stands, assuming the team are not on the hook for his guaranteed base salaries on future years -

normal cut -

2018 cap hit - $2,398,857
2019 cap hit - $0

Post June 1 cut -

2018 cap hit - $799,619
2019 cap hit - $1,599,238

However, if the team are on the hook for his guaranteed P5 base, things will get a whole lot more expensive.

The guarantees in his P5 base salary are -

2018 - $781,155 (all of it)
2019 - $471,843 (42.99%)
2020 - $0 (nothing guaranteed)

 

[RCATES]

For those who are claiming Seahawks have actually not done that bad the last few drafts compared to other teams. Dead Last. GB can come take JS anytime please.

https://twitter.com/BendixenNFL

 

[MontanaHawk05]

So drafting a player in the 2nd round that is under valued by other teams for character, but thought to be a first round talent; who then is youhfully stupid and hurts himself ending his careeer is worse than trading three draft picks a 1st, 4th, and 7th??? Compounding this the second player is then given a league leading type huge contract with significant guarantees and thereafter spends a season on PUP recovering from a known to the team hip injury the team knew had to have surgery. This player who is thereafter cut after playing just 7 games b/c he is a locker room cancer and a malingerer leaving the team to eat his contract that proved to be a disasaster in terms of return on equity in every sense is worse than the second round only rookie contract guaranteed money only scenario? I guess those expensive 7 games meant something as McDowell so far has had none.

Both situations truly sucked but the Harvin fiasco was a genuine disaster on every level b/c the player had obvious talent but couldn’t or wouldn’t fit in. So was Graham b/c he too couldn’t be fit in, and Richardson was simply another sub optimal trade for a player who had zero intention of wanting to stay and one the team over paid for in every way. These three trades arguably closed the Seahawks window by creating cap complications and returning now nothing.

I do think it is fair to be critical of the FO for all three trades but McDowell simply compounded a problem that the FO created by trading for other team’s problems in the vague hope they could be fit in here. Trading for Richardson was stupid when the team had zero cap to sign him, trading for Graham was mistake when it became apparent. He could not be fit in to our O without forcing him to change his style of play which was why we wanted him. I’ve already described above how bad the Harvin deal was for the team and how it hurt. Harvin to me is likely in top level of all time bad trades for the league.

Your point about the lack of fresh talent inflow from the draft is a good one but Harvin being not as bad a McDowell iin terms of disaster level doesn’t hunt.

Graham was a third of our touchdowns. Richardson played a crucial role in at least two wins thanks to his turnovers.

Nobody would be arguing with these moves had Blair Walsh proven up to snuff.

So it's better to say that if you're going to make all-in moves like Graham and Richardson, you'd better truly be in good position to win at most other spots. Which the Seahawks weren't. It wasted good moves.

 

[iigakusei]

I think the drafting of OL really makes it look worse. I really hope that getting rid of Cable will improve the OL drafting or prove that some of these guys might actually be able to play (big hope). At this point though it looks like our OL drafting has been absolutely terrible. Look at the names on the list we have drafted.
1st - Ifedi - looks like a bust
2nd - Pocic - TBD but didn't look good
3rd - Odhiambo - bust
4th - Poole
4th - Glowinski
6th - Senior
6th - Sokoli
6th - Hunt

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I really hope that getting rid of Cable will improve the OL drafting or prove that some of these guys might actually be able to play (big hope). At this point though it looks like our OL drafting has been absolutely terrible. Look at the names on the list we have drafted.
1st - Ifedi - looks like a bust
2nd - Pocic - TBD but didn't look good
3rd - Odhiambo - bust
4th - Poole
4th - Glowinski
6th - Senior
6th - Sokoli
6th - Hunt

Seattle has been drafting subterranean-floor, stratosphere-ceiling guys at OL. Generally speaking, they've been hopelessly raw with technique, but their sheer power and athleticism means that if they can learn the technique, Seattle ends up with top-caliber OL.

Of course, it hasn't worked out that way. Ethan Pocic, in fact, was so opposite to this paradigm that it signalled right away that Cable's mentality might be on its way out the door. So I, too, am willing to see what Solari brings to the table before I call this administration a bust.

 

[iigakusei]

I really hope that getting rid of Cable will improve the OL drafting or prove that some of these guys might actually be able to play (big hope). At this point though it looks like our OL drafting has been absolutely terrible. Look at the names on the list we have drafted.
1st - Ifedi - looks like a bust
2nd - Pocic - TBD but didn't look good
3rd - Odhiambo - bust
4th - Poole
4th - Glowinski
6th - Senior
6th - Sokoli
6th - Hunt

Seattle has been drafting subterranean-floor, stratosphere-ceiling guys at OL. Generally speaking, they've been hopelessly raw with technique, but their sheer power and athleticism means that if they can learn the technique, Seattle ends up with top-caliber OL.

Of course, it hasn't worked out that way. Ethan Pocic, in fact, was so opposite to this paradigm that it signalled right away that Cable's mentality might be on its way out the door. So I, too, am willing to see what Solari brings to the table before I call this administration a bust.

Even though I think Ifedi is a bust at this point, I still have some strange lingering feeling that there is a probowl level player in there somewhere. One series he can look absolutely dominant, and the next like someone who has never played football before. But I digress...off topic from the OP I know.

 

[original poster]

For those who are claiming Seahawks have actually not done that bad the last few drafts compared to other teams. Dead Last. GB can come take JS anytime please.

https://twitter.com/BendixenNFL

And this is why you shouldn't believe everything you read.

The data used in the above is not taking into account draft position.

Being shocked that a #1 pick produced more than the #32 pick should not be a surprise.

But...if you want to discuss this further start a topic.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

For those who are claiming Seahawks have actually not done that bad the last few drafts compared to other teams. Dead Last. GB can come take JS anytime please.

https://twitter.com/BendixenNFL

Two more years, IMO both Pete and John have earned that goodwill to try to turn over this roster and compete for another SB until their contracts expire after 2019...............and they know that, which is good cause nothing sharpens focus like desperation to keep your job and legacy.

 

[Sports Hernia]

So drafting a player in the 2nd round that is under valued by other teams for character, but thought to be a first round talent; who then is youhfully stupid and hurts himself ending his careeer is worse than trading three draft picks a 1st, 4th, and 7th??? Compounding this the second player is then given a league leading type huge contract with significant guarantees and thereafter spends a season on PUP recovering from a known to the team hip injury the team knew had to have surgery. This player who is thereafter cut after playing just 7 games b/c he is a locker room cancer and a malingerer leaving the team to eat his contract that proved to be a disasaster in terms of return on equity in every sense is worse than the second round only rookie contract guaranteed money only scenario? I guess those expensive 7 games meant something as McDowell so far has had none.

Both situations truly sucked but the Harvin fiasco was a genuine disaster on every level b/c the player had obvious talent but couldn’t or wouldn’t fit in. So was Graham b/c he too couldn’t be fit in, and Richardson was simply another sub optimal trade for a player who had zero intention of wanting to stay and one the team over paid for in every way. These three trades arguably closed the Seahawks window by creating cap complications and returning now nothing.

I do think it is fair to be critical of the FO for all three trades but McDowell simply compounded a problem that the FO created by trading for other team’s problems in the vague hope they could be fit in here. Trading for Richardson was stupid when the team had zero cap to sign him, trading for Graham was mistake when it became apparent. He could not be fit in to our O without forcing him to change his style of play which was why we wanted him. I’ve already described above how bad the Harvin deal was for the team and how it hurt. Harvin to me is likely in top level of all time bad trades for the league.

Your point about the lack of fresh talent inflow from the draft is a good one but Harvin being not as bad a McDowell iin terms of disaster level doesn’t hunt.

Graham was a third of our touchdowns. Richardson played a crucial role in at least two wins thanks to his turnovers.

Nobody would be arguing with these moves had Blair Walsh proven up to snuff.

So it's better to say that if you're going to make all-in moves like Graham and Richardson, you'd better truly be in good position to win at most other spots. Which the Seahawks weren't. It wasted good moves.

Great point!

 

[kobebryant]

Sometimes you roll the dice on an "open box discount" and it hits (Frank, Marshawn, Bruce, BB) and sometimes it misses (Percy, Malik). You can't be afraid to take those shots, but if we're trying to find the distinguishing factor between those two groups it appears to be on-field want-to and mental/physical toughness.

 

[mikeak]

Sometimes you roll the dice on an "open box discount" and it hits (Frank, Marshawn, Bruce, BB) and sometimes it misses (Percy, Malik). You can't be afraid to take those shots, but if we're trying to find the distinguishing factor between those two groups it appears to be on-field want-to and mental/physical toughness.

Trading a first round pick for Harvin and spending something like $7million / year and turning your first round pick into Malik and paying a few millions signing bonus and getting zero games

IS NOT OPEN BOX DISCOUNT..........

 

[Chiekamon]

The FO gambled Richardson could be the guy McDowell was supposed to be. He maybe was that, but a 1 year deal was not so wise.So goodbye Richardson and goodbye 2nd round pick in a draft that we really needed it. Hawks had Melifonwu in for a workout pre draft as well as Mc Dowell, they chose the guy anyway even after all the red flags.

This FO needs to rebound in a big way. Kudos to them for FINALLY getting rid of the Bevell/Cable experiment (3 years late). Last years draft may pan out but in the last few years, they have gleaned very little help from the draft.

 

[TwistedHusky]

There is a big difference between a team that is trying to become competitive and a team in the top echelon.

No surprise that the drafting approach would be different too.

With the Seahawks, the rise came with an approach looking for high ceilings. You want the best chance at someone turning into a great player, an impact All Pro type. And you are OK with a higher failure rate or increased risks on other levels to do this.

You take the greater risk of a flawed outcome, for the upside. And this works, in the years they did this - you notice for every Richard Sherman you have 2-3 Norwoods. And you take that offset all day.

But, you need lots of picks to allow to hit on 1 of 4. You have to be OK with being able to spin again.

Now, a team that is good or very good, needs to fill holes. Because it loses people along the way (or stupidly trades them as we did). So you have to be able to bring in FAs that will fit the culture and team - to keep the progress going. And you have to be able to bring in solid contributors with at least half your draft picks. Because you will lose people and you need people to fill holes.

At this point the draft approach is not high ceilings, but low floors. You want the best chance at getting a solid player that can come in backup important players and fill gaps. But we were still swinging for the fences, and missing.

The Seahawks never were able to adapt to the need to change the approach. And combined with the FA issues they kept having, it left bigger and bigger holes that were exacerbated by the trading of draft picks which meant the existing picks were even more important to keep a low failure rate on.

But that said, those draft value #s are damning. And sure it does not take into account draft position BUT the Seahawks haven't been drafting at the bottom for a while and the value rank they are getting is at or near the bottom. So clearly the issue is not all a discrepancy in where the picks fall. We just were not getting value out of the picks we made.

 

[brimsalabim]

Why do we hope that another team can medically clear him? Do we get money back if he plays for someone else? If our team doctors have examined him and believe it's too dangerous for him to play football wouldn't they have to disclose that info to the league?