Everyone is blaming the Minny kick unit for the loss...

Vancanhawksfan

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"Mike Zimmer was blunt"

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14543 ... n-my-fault

Yes, we all know that the kick unit has their job to do and must make the kick, but forget about that for a moment. How much blame should go to Zimmer for not at least attempting to score a TD and instead calling three straight runs just to set up the field goal attempt in what we all knew were very difficult and challenging conditions?

After all, the only player to score in this game for Minnesota was Blair...not one TD was to be had and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not sure that the Vikings had even made one attempt to score a TD all game?
 

Seanhawk

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Vancanhawksfan":10y276tj said:
"Mike Zimmer was blunt"

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14543 ... n-my-fault

Yes, we all know that the kick unit has their job to do and must make the kick, but forget about that for a moment. How much blame should go to Zimmer for not at least attempting to score a TD and instead calling three straight runs just to set up the field goal attempt in what we all knew were very difficult and challenging conditions?

After all, the only player to score in this game for Minnesota was Blair...not one TD was to be had and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not sure that the Vikings had even made one attempt to score a TD all game?

None. It was a 27 yard field goal. EVERY coach in the league would have done the exact same thing.
 

sutz

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Kid manned up pretty well there. Tough break for the guy, but I'm glad it was them and not us.

We'll be seeing them in the future, I'm sure. It's a pretty decent team on the upswing. If Bridgie gets going they could go somewhere next year.
 

hawk45

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Plus three straight runs uses up our two timeouts, takes the clock to 26 seconds, and is the least risky thing on a zero degree day. And his kicked had been nails all game.

Zimmer played it correctly.
 

Scottemojo

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I didn't apologize for the luck it took to beat GB when their scrub TE gifted us an onsides, and I am not one bit sad we won like this.
 

Dizzlepdx

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Seanhawk":3ed7tsaf said:
Vancanhawksfan":3ed7tsaf said:
"Mike Zimmer was blunt"

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14543 ... n-my-fault

Yes, we all know that the kick unit has their job to do and must make the kick, but forget about that for a moment. How much blame should go to Zimmer for not at least attempting to score a TD and instead calling three straight runs just to set up the field goal attempt in what we all knew were very difficult and challenging conditions?

After all, the only player to score in this game for Minnesota was Blair...not one TD was to be had and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not sure that the Vikings had even made one attempt to score a TD all game?

None. It was a 27 yard field goal. EVERY coach in the league would have done the exact same thing.

Agreed. Take any player/coach in the league, ask them before the game if they'd take this scenario to win, and the answer is yes.

Is this an obvious reason they would lost the game, yes. Is it the only one, no.
 

PlinytheCenter

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I like the irony that the cold weather supposedly gave them their advantage (and it did) and then they lose the game because of the weather. I don't know about everyone else, but I've lit a couple candles this evening in thanks.
 
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Vancanhawksfan

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Seanhawk":36av6m7g said:
Vancanhawksfan":36av6m7g said:
"Mike Zimmer was blunt"

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14543 ... n-my-fault

Yes, we all know that the kick unit has their job to do and must make the kick, but forget about that for a moment. How much blame should go to Zimmer for not at least attempting to score a TD and instead calling three straight runs just to set up the field goal attempt in what we all knew were very difficult and challenging conditions?

After all, the only player to score in this game for Minnesota was Blair...not one TD was to be had and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not sure that the Vikings had even made one attempt to score a TD all game?

None. It was a 27 yard field goal. EVERY coach in the league would have done the exact same thing.

You make it sound like a 27 yard field goal should be converted 100% of the time. Granted, in normal conditions the conversion rate is 98.9% in 2015. But this wasn't normal conditions and I would argue that it shouldn't have been considered automatic.

I have no idea if there are statistics kept for extreme cold weather games like this, but let's just say that hypothetically the conversion rate in these kinds of conditions were 75% (which is what Blair's conversion rate today was) instead of 98.9%. If this were the case and you knew that the conversion rate would be less than automatic, then would you make the same play calls?

This breakdown of the missed field goal provided in another thread was pretty informative:

http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/fi ... ield-goal/

When it gets cold like this alot can go wrong with the whole kick team and in this case we saw three different things go wrong with the sequence. We also saw on the Seahawks side of the ball our special teams unit mess up two long snaps leading to one turnover on downs and also saw Richard Sherman come within a baby's bum hair of blocking the previous FG attempt as well.

Kicking field goals is a precision exercise that is greatly impaired in these conditions. Should the coaching staff have approached this attempt as if it were going to be automatic like they assumed?
 

sutz

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Meh, I would not have called Bevell out if he had done the exact same thing in that scenario. That was the high percentage strategy to use. Burn up the clock and all of our time outs, then kick the chip shot. In that regard, we got lucky, because the odds were with them on that series. I have no problem with that.

The only thing is that maybe they should have run to the right to put the kick on the other hashmark, but maybe the kicker requested the left one. I know most coaches will ask the kicker which hash he wants it on in that situation. They don't always request the seemingly 'correct' one because of the wind or something. I haven't heard about whether that was in the discussion yet.

Lot of unnecessary whining around here. ;)
 

fenderbender123

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They're correct. That was the only play of the game. Everything else that happened in the game was irrelevant to the outcome. I don't even understand why they even played all those other snaps.
 

kidhawk

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sutz":1r15s8t5 said:
Meh, I would not have called Bevell out if he had done the exact same thing in that scenario.

Strange enough, I was cursing Bevell under my breath during our previous drive because I thought we were playing too conservative towards the end with only a 1 point lead. Playing not to lose is never my favorite strategy, but the play of Wilson all day long likely had as much to do with it as trying "not to lose". Besides, we all know that winning makes it all ok in the end right? :th2thumbs:
 

Uncle Si

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It had been brought up before... but if the kicking unit had been concerned about Sherman's near block on the kick prior, then the staff running the ball to the left hash for this kick was a mistake.

But that is still nit picking... Zimmer called a great game for his team and his QB. Living out here that was the best the Vikings could have hoped for, and they admit it this morning. They are a team on the rise. Zimmer is a good coach for them.

As for Walsh, while the likelihood of missing a 27 yarder is rare, he was only 33 of 37 on extra points. Mind that is a 6 yard difference, but its also from the center hash and never in -5 degree temps. Walsh had a strange year for the Vikings, leading the league in Field goals made but almost getting cut in the preseason. Feel for him.

But the Vikes will rebound. Their fans are taking it quite well this morning. Overall narrative this morning is the fan base is proud of the team, they've seen these types of misses before, and know this team will be strong again. Their "window" if you will is just opening.
 

marymoorhawk

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PlinytheCenter":wcqsib1u said:
I like the irony that the cold weather supposedly gave them their advantage (and it did) and then they lose the game because of the weather. I don't know about everyone else, but I've lit a couple candles this evening in thanks.

I thought of that too. I was in the "cold shouldn't matter" camp before the game but it clearly had an affect on our deep passing game. Russ severely under threw 2 (maybe 3?) deep balls that in normal conditions go for scores as the receivers were wide, wide open.

The one thing about the cold - both teams had to play in it. It probably hurt us more due to the above comment, but it had an affect on the Vikings as well.
 

HawkFan72

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The Seahawks D barely held the Vikings in that situation. Peterson was stopped a yard short of a 1st down and so they had to kick. That was just great Defense on that stand, not bad play calling.

He made the right call to run it 3 straight times: You don't pick up the first, then you kick a chip shot with 20 seconds left. Who wouldn't do that?

The Seahawks made a great stand. If Peterson picks up the first down, this game likely ends very differently: Vikings kick the winner from the 2 yard line as time expires.
 

marymoorhawk

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Vancanhawksfan":1h9d20gb said:
Seanhawk":1h9d20gb said:
Vancanhawksfan":1h9d20gb said:
"Mike Zimmer was blunt"

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14543 ... n-my-fault

Yes, we all know that the kick unit has their job to do and must make the kick, but forget about that for a moment. How much blame should go to Zimmer for not at least attempting to score a TD and instead calling three straight runs just to set up the field goal attempt in what we all knew were very difficult and challenging conditions?

After all, the only player to score in this game for Minnesota was Blair...not one TD was to be had and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not sure that the Vikings had even made one attempt to score a TD all game?

None. It was a 27 yard field goal. EVERY coach in the league would have done the exact same thing.

You make it sound like a 27 yard field goal should be converted 100% of the time. Granted, in normal conditions the conversion rate is 98.9% in 2015. But this wasn't normal conditions and I would argue that it shouldn't have been considered automatic.

I have no idea if there are statistics kept for extreme cold weather games like this, but let's just say that hypothetically the conversion rate in these kinds of conditions were 75% (which is what Blair's conversion rate today was) instead of 98.9%. If this were the case and you knew that the conversion rate would be less than automatic, then would you make the same play calls?

This breakdown of the missed field goal provided in another thread was pretty informative:

http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/fi ... ield-goal/

When it gets cold like this alot can go wrong with the whole kick team and in this case we saw three different things go wrong with the sequence. We also saw on the Seahawks side of the ball our special teams unit mess up two long snaps leading to one turnover on downs and also saw Richard Sherman come within a baby's bum hair of blocking the previous FG attempt as well.

Kicking field goals is a precision exercise that is greatly impaired in these conditions. Should the coaching staff have approached this attempt as if it were going to be automatic like they assumed?

Yep - I think it was a combination of bitter cold, wind (going that direction had a big impact on kicking game, all other FG's and the TD were on the other end of the field), bad hold, and the psychological impact of Sherm just about blocking the last kick, coming in from the right.

Having said all of that though, before that kick everyone thought it was going to be good. To say otherwise is revisionist history and MMQB at its finest.
 

Scottemojo

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Uncle Si":1ea20ec7 said:
It had been brought up before... but if the kicking unit had been concerned about Sherman's near block on the kick prior, then the staff running the ball to the left hash for this kick was a mistake.

But that is still nit picking... Zimmer called a great game for his team and his QB. Living out here that was the best the Vikings could have hoped for, and they admit it this morning. They are a team on the rise. Zimmer is a good coach for them.

As for Walsh, while the likelihood of missing a 27 yarder is rare, he was only 33 of 37 on extra points. Mind that is a 6 yard difference, but its also from the center hash and never in -5 degree temps. Walsh had a strange year for the Vikings, leading the league in Field goals made but almost getting cut in the preseason. Feel for him.

But the Vikes will rebound. Their fans are taking it quite well this morning. Overall narrative this morning is the fan base is proud of the team, they've seen these types of misses before, and know this team will be strong again. Their "window" if you will is just opening.
I wonder if that was on AP. The play before they ran to the middle, right between the hashes. Then AP tried a cutback. the wind was pushing left, so between Sherm, the wind, and the left hash, all things seemed to make for the very small chance of a miss to get slightly bigger. First thing I said after that AP run was why the left hash?

As far as their team, I like the Vikes staff and future. Zimmer's teams by and large play hard, but clean ball. He is getting a D-line put together that is going to be a problem. His corners are only lacking experience. The safety is a bad dude.
 

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[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/686293089930051586[/tweet]
 

Silver Hawk

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Please remember the last time Zimmer got aggressive. The Cardinal game, where Bridgewater took a sack that he could not and fumbled the ball. Zimmer might have remembered that data point. Could have just played for the game tying field goal attempt but did not. Game over.

Yes, Walsh's late miss is most visible but having AP rush for only 45 yards and have a critical fumble is very large too.
 

kearly

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I'm actually not all that high on Minnesota's future, I don't see strong fundamentals. Their defense was essentially league average by DVOA, and their offense was perfectly average (0.0 DVOA). In 2015 they were the epitome of an average team. Almost all of their value above average came from special teams, and almost all of that came from a handful of kick returns by Patterson.

As far as their defense goes, it could evolve into a more than solid unit, but it kind of has the feel of a no-name defense. Griffen has good sack totals the past two years but his pass rush repertoire is pedestrian IMO. Minnesota's corners ARE talented, but just average in terms of play. Safety play is tough to evaluate sometimes, but Harrison Smith has failed to get my attention in any Vikings game I've watched. Maybe that's my fault, but I will say that Chancellor got my attention immediately with his playmaking in 2011. Point being, it's very hard to know how good a safety really is sometimes especially if the splash plays aren't in abundance. Remember when the Saints signed "best safety in the NFL" Jairus Byrd? A couple years later Byrd was part of a Saints defense that had the worst defensive DVOA in history.

On offense, the Vikings built everything around a soon to be 31 year old RB. Their OL is a big weakness. Rudolph is a fungible talent. Some of their receivers I like (Mike Wallace especially) but they have the exact wrong QB to take advantage of Mike Wallace's talents. If you look at the Vikings season, their wins and losses are predicted very strongly by AP's success in those games.

Bridgewater is a better decision-maker than Christian Ponder, but otherwise they are two similar QBs. Both are good but not great scramblers. Both lack arm strength and throw an overwhelming percentage of short passes. Both seemed to lack inner fire.

When AP is done being effective, I think Minnesota is going to be in trouble. The Vikings were 6-9 without AP in 2014 with basically the same team they have now.

Long term, I see Minnesota as a team that hovers around .500 over the next five seasons. It's likely that their 11-5 record in 2015 will be a career high for Bridgewater. I don't see his arm-strength or shot-put mechanics or his lack of inner fire changing. It's not that he's a TERRIBLE QB, but he'll only have success against teams that allow it, as he's one of the easiest QBs in the league to game plan.

So for me, if Seattle had lost this game it would have been a bitter pill to swallow. If Seattle loses to a SB caliber opponent it feels like a loss is easier to take, but if they had lost to an average team with an average future like Minny I'd have felt regret over it for years, much like the regret I felt after Seattle dropped one to the paper tiger Falcons in 2012.
 

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