Field Issues....

[Tech Worlds]

I get going with natural grass in California; and the grass fields in Florida and Arizona are often the highest rated in the NFL.

But the field conditions in Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, and Carolina come late fall and through the winter are often terrible, dangerous, and disgraceful for a billion dollar entity such as the NFL. There are certain times when it feels like the NFLPA should really make a big deal about it.

That crap in DC may have cost RG3 his career and cost Chris Clemons his ACL. Why in the world would you trade a ton for RG3 and then not give him the fastest and smoothest track possible?

We've seen games in Pittsburgh border on unplayable because of the mud, and John Carlson crack his head on that frozen crap in Chicago in the playoffs.

I prefer grass in climates that should have it, but the climates that can't produce a good product should move to fieldturf.

The climate in Seattle is nothing like the climates of Chicago, Washington. Pittsburgh, or Carolina. Comparing Seattle to them is pointless.

It is not pointless. You just missed it.

The point is that grass does not grow here in Seattle in the winter. The field would be trashed and wouldnt grow and take root again until the spring.

 

[kobebryant]

I get going with natural grass in California; and the grass fields in Florida and Arizona are often the highest rated in the NFL.

But the field conditions in Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, and Carolina come late fall and through the winter are often terrible, dangerous, and disgraceful for a billion dollar entity such as the NFL. There are certain times when it feels like the NFLPA should really make a big deal about it.

That crap in DC may have cost RG3 his career and cost Chris Clemons his ACL. Why in the world would you trade a ton for RG3 and then not give him the fastest and smoothest track possible?

We've seen games in Pittsburgh border on unplayable because of the mud, and John Carlson crack his head on that frozen crap in Chicago in the playoffs.

I prefer grass in climates that should have it, but the climates that can't produce a good product should move to fieldturf.

The climate in Seattle is nothing like the climates of Chicago, Washington. Pittsburgh, or Carolina. Comparing Seattle to them is pointless.

Ctrl+F my post for the word Seattle.

 

[ivotuk]

I've got a couple of things here.

I understand natural turf, I honestly prefer it. It's what the game was built on and I get that. But, we've evolved as humans and we're more athletic now.

I personally think all fields should be synthetic. I know we're not all going to agree on this. But so many season ending, even career ending injuries have been contributed to poor turf.

My second thing I'd like to talk about is this. You hear throughout the game players changing their cleats on natural turf. How do they NOT know the turf conditions before game time? Shouldn't they be prepared before game time? Shouldn't they be taking some hard cuts on that turf before game time to test it?

First, it's the 21st Century, we should know how to grow natural grass by now.

Second, teams use everything they can for homefield advantage, including turf. Their players are used to practicing and playing on that field, in those conditions. It's why Peyton Manning rarely won in the playoffs. He played on a covered field, then all of a sudden was subjected to the cold outdoors and crappy field conditions. His whole team wilted.

Third, the head coach and equipment manager should have had them prepared for that. Pete once said about playing in 103 degree heat in San Diego "They have to play in it too."

I was born and raised in Alaska, and worked up North in the Oil Fields for years in the cold. I would see roughnecks and roustabouts show up in January, from Texas and Oklahoma with a little leather jacket and cowboy boots. Watching them freeze their ass off at -45 with the wind hitting 15 - 20 knots was hilarous! But even with the right gear, they struggled to adapt to temperatures that sometimes hit -65, with everything breaking off, generators quitting, and zero humidity. I've seen static electricy sparks go "PoP!" and jump 3 inches, from my finger tip to my buddies nose. I felt like Harry Potter. I almost died that day.

But my point is, home field advantage is a real thing. Players say that the best turf health wise is natural grass. Well it's time that the NFL have standards. And where is the NFLPA? NIt has cost players careers, contract dollars (who wants to pay a DE or QB with a spaghetti knee?)

 

[Marvin49]

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_29 ... xpert-says

SANTA CLARA -- Whatever complaints existed about the condition of the turf at Levi's Stadium during Super Bowl 50 were dismissed Monday by NFL turf consultant George Toma, who called it the second-best surface for a Super Bowl he has seen.

Toma, whose next assignment will be overseeing maintenance of the Minnesota Twins spring training fields, assisted NFL field director Ed Mangan in supervising laying down the sod Jan. 11 -- nearly a month ago.

"I thought it was excellent," said Toma, who inspected the field after a 24-10 win by the Denver Broncos over the Carolina Panthers.

There were instances of players slipping during the game, including Denver safety T.J. Ward on a second-half interception. Broncos cornerback Aqib Talib called the footing "terrible ... San Fran has to play eight games on that turf, and they had better do something to get it fixed."

The NFL purchased the grass from West Coast Turf, a hybrid Bermuda 419 sod that replaced the surface the 49ers played on during the regular season.

At halftime, after the lengthy musical entertainment, stadium employees were seen replacing patches of grass at spots all over the field.

Toma, however, said there were no divots, only "little pieces of grass the size of a nickel or a dime."

 

[Basis4day]

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_29492620/super-bowl-50-aftermath-one-turf-expert-says

SANTA CLARA -- Whatever complaints existed about the condition of the turf at Levi's Stadium during Super Bowl 50 were dismissed Monday by NFL turf consultant George Toma, who called it the second-best surface for a Super Bowl he has seen.

Toma, whose next assignment will be overseeing maintenance of the Minnesota Twins spring training fields, assisted NFL field director Ed Mangan in supervising laying down the sod Jan. 11 -- nearly a month ago.

"I thought it was excellent," said Toma, who inspected the field after a 24-10 win by the Denver Broncos over the Carolina Panthers.

There were instances of players slipping during the game, including Denver safety T.J. Ward on a second-half interception. Broncos cornerback Aqib Talib called the footing "terrible ... San Fran has to play eight games on that turf, and they had better do something to get it fixed."

The NFL purchased the grass from West Coast Turf, a hybrid Bermuda 419 sod that replaced the surface the 49ers played on during the regular season.

At halftime, after the lengthy musical entertainment, stadium employees were seen replacing patches of grass at spots all over the field.

Toma, however, said there were no divots, only "little pieces of grass the size of a nickel or a dime."

I trust the players on conditions of the field.

 

[Popeyejones]

Two thoughts on this:

1) don't know where the meme came from that natural grass is cheaper than field turf. It's the reverse, and it's why so many public high schools have switched over to turf in the last decade or so.

2) Claims about which surface is definitively safer are complete and total BS, and people should cut it out when making them.

A 2012 study on the NFL concluding that for knee and ankle injuries grass is safer than turf: http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/40/10/2200.short

A 2010 study of college football concluding that field turf is safer, albeit with caveats: http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/38/4/687.short

A 2004 study by the same author as above concluding no real difference, and that they both lead to different types of injuries: http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/32/7/1626.short

A review of the literature across many sports in 2010 tenatively suggesting that grass is safer (even for 3rd gen field turf), but really just concluding that people still don't know: http://link.springer.com/article/10.216 ... 0000-00000

 

[Marvin49]

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_29492620/super-bowl-50-aftermath-one-turf-expert-says

SANTA CLARA -- Whatever complaints existed about the condition of the turf at Levi's Stadium during Super Bowl 50 were dismissed Monday by NFL turf consultant George Toma, who called it the second-best surface for a Super Bowl he has seen.

Toma, whose next assignment will be overseeing maintenance of the Minnesota Twins spring training fields, assisted NFL field director Ed Mangan in supervising laying down the sod Jan. 11 -- nearly a month ago.

"I thought it was excellent," said Toma, who inspected the field after a 24-10 win by the Denver Broncos over the Carolina Panthers.

There were instances of players slipping during the game, including Denver safety T.J. Ward on a second-half interception. Broncos cornerback Aqib Talib called the footing "terrible ... San Fran has to play eight games on that turf, and they had better do something to get it fixed."

The NFL purchased the grass from West Coast Turf, a hybrid Bermuda 419 sod that replaced the surface the 49ers played on during the regular season.

At halftime, after the lengthy musical entertainment, stadium employees were seen replacing patches of grass at spots all over the field.

Toma, however, said there were no divots, only "little pieces of grass the size of a nickel or a dime."

I trust the players on conditions of the field.

Which ones....the ones who support your view or the ones who don't?

I'd like to see ONE video of big clumps of turf coming up from the SB. The field was slick. Players tried to get away with a short cleat and they slipped.

 

[Barakas]

Most of you 49er AND Seahawk fans on this thread need to get a damn job!! Whiny little biotches...all of you.

*slinking back to work*

 

[thebanjodude]

This seems relevant. Oher looks like he's ice skating!

[vine]i1lg0wgpZQe[/vine]

http://deadspin.com/the-super-bowls-crappy-turf-made-it-harder-for-michael-1758264114

 

[Marvin49]

This seems relevant. Oher looks like he's ice skating!

[vine]i1lg0wgpZQe[/vine]

http://deadspin.com/the-super-bowls-crappy-turf-made-it-harder-for-michael-1758264114

Are you under the impression this is NEW?

As has been stated many times, THE TURF DIDN'T GIVE. Did you see it give? No, you didn't. You saw him slip ON TOP of the grass.

The issue was a damp surface and players choosing a cleat with almost no spike. Once they switched the cleat, they had no issue...just as Von Miller stated. That is an issue with the cleat, not the turf.

 

[Marvin49]

This seems relevant. Oher looks like he's ice skating!

[vine]i1lg0wgpZQe[/vine]

http://deadspin.com/the-super-bowls-crappy-turf-made-it-harder-for-michael-1758264114

Are you under the impression this is NEW?

As has been stated many times, THE TURF DIDN'T GIVE. Did you see it give? No, you didn't. You saw him slip ON TOP of the grass.

The issue was a damp surface and players choosing a cleat with almost no spike. Once they switched the cleat, they had no issue...just as Von Miller stated. That is an issue with the cleat, not the turf.

Actually it had nothing to do with dampness, and you clinging to that excuse is hilarious. The reason why you would get that effect of skating is because the sod was compacted and rolled too much. Hard pack sod reacts that way, not a damp surface other wise you would see skating like that all over the NFL on rainy days...especially in place with field turf.

Ya know what? I'll buy that.

Either way, that is NOT the "field coming up in chunks" BS thats been stated all over the internet. That's false.

 

[kobebryant]

This seems relevant. Oher looks like he's ice skating!

[vine]i1lg0wgpZQe[/vine]

http://deadspin.com/the-super-bowls-crappy-turf-made-it-harder-for-michael-1758264114

Are you under the impression this is NEW?

As has been stated many times, THE TURF DIDN'T GIVE. Did you see it give? No, you didn't. You saw him slip ON TOP of the grass.

The issue was a damp surface and players choosing a cleat with almost no spike. Once they switched the cleat, they had no issue...just as Von Miller stated. That is an issue with the cleat, not the turf.

Marvin, you're a smart dude and I like you.

But c'mon, you don't ever see see what happened to Oher there happen on fieldturf, even on the wettest of days.

IMO it is something that the PA needs to be more vocal about; while there's inherent risks anytime a player steps on the field, it isn't hard to imagine Oher's groin tearing there, potentially costing him millions in current and potential future earnings.

 

[Marvin49]

This seems relevant. Oher looks like he's ice skating!

[vine]i1lg0wgpZQe[/vine]

http://deadspin.com/the-super-bowls-crappy-turf-made-it-harder-for-michael-1758264114

Are you under the impression this is NEW?

As has been stated many times, THE TURF DIDN'T GIVE. Did you see it give? No, you didn't. You saw him slip ON TOP of the grass.

The issue was a damp surface and players choosing a cleat with almost no spike. Once they switched the cleat, they had no issue...just as Von Miller stated. That is an issue with the cleat, not the turf.

Marvin, you're a smart dude and I like you.

But c'mon, you don't ever see see what happened to Oher there happen on fieldturf, even on the wettest of days.

IMO it is something that the PA needs to be more vocal about; while there's inherent risks anytime a player steps on the field, it isn't hard to imagine Oher's groin tearing there, potentially costing him millions in current and potential future earnings.

Sorry man....you will never convince me Field Turf is better. I can't stand the stuff. This has nothing to do with "well my team has this so I'll defend it" either because it would be a nice, simple solution to just rip up all the grass and put in Field Turf.

It would even be cheaper.

I just hate the stuff with a passion. Yes, it is LIGHT YEARS better than Astroturf. I'd never even begin to say its not much better...

...but to me, thats just a really low bar to clear. Yes, its better than outdoor carpet on concrete. Gratz.

It still ain't grass.

 

[kobebryant]

This seems relevant. Oher looks like he's ice skating!

[vine]i1lg0wgpZQe[/vine]

http://deadspin.com/the-super-bowls-crappy-turf-made-it-harder-for-michael-1758264114

Are you under the impression this is NEW?

As has been stated many times, THE TURF DIDN'T GIVE. Did you see it give? No, you didn't. You saw him slip ON TOP of the grass.

The issue was a damp surface and players choosing a cleat with almost no spike. Once they switched the cleat, they had no issue...just as Von Miller stated. That is an issue with the cleat, not the turf.

Marvin, you're a smart dude and I like you.

But c'mon, you don't ever see see what happened to Oher there happen on fieldturf, even on the wettest of days.

IMO it is something that the PA needs to be more vocal about; while there's inherent risks anytime a player steps on the field, it isn't hard to imagine Oher's groin tearing there, potentially costing him millions in current and potential future earnings.

Sorry man....you will never convince me Field Turf is better. I can't stand the stuff. This has nothing to do with "well my team has this so I'll defend it" either because it would be a nice, simple solution to just rip up all the grass and put in Field Turf.

It would even be cheaper.

I just hate the stuff with a passion. Yes, it is LIGHT YEARS better than Astroturf. I'd never even begin to say its not much better...

...but to me, thats just a really low bar to clear. Yes, its better than outdoor carpet on concrete. Gratz.

It still ain't grass.

And I'm not knocking it because it is SF/York for having this. I went to the hockey game there and Levi's is perhaps the finest stadium I've ever been to; in terms of appearance, modernity, sightlines, and functionality it as Clink beat by a country mile IMO.

To me it's about more than "hey dude, get your cleats right", that is oversimplifying much like people saying the answer to "hack-a-whoever" in basketball is making your free throws. A player or equipment staff misjudging cleat selection shouldn't send someone to IR or result in a run going 70 yards because your all-pro safety slipped in the hole.

Though not as egregious as the center-field hill in Houston or the concrete only feet away from the field in St Louis that cost Reggie Bush his season, grass just lends itself to too much inconsistency when there could be one uniform standard of consistency no matter where the game is being played.

If you saw the Hawks-Skins playoff game from a few years ago you'd see the issue with grass come winter. May have cost a franchise QB his career and cost Chris Clemons his ACL.

Though if there must be grass, SF doesn't rank anywhere near Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, and Carolina in terms of my disdain for it.

If Kaep was still the guy in SF though, would you not want him playing on the fastest surface possible?

 

[Marvin49]

Are you under the impression this is NEW?

As has been stated many times, THE TURF DIDN'T GIVE. Did you see it give? No, you didn't. You saw him slip ON TOP of the grass.

The issue was a damp surface and players choosing a cleat with almost no spike. Once they switched the cleat, they had no issue...just as Von Miller stated. That is an issue with the cleat, not the turf.

Ok
Actually it had nothing to do with dampness, and you clinging to that excuse is hilarious. The reason why you would get that effect of skating is because the sod was compacted and rolled too much. Hard pack sod reacts that way, not a damp surface other wise you would see skating like that all over the NFL on rainy days...especially in place with field turf.

Ya know what? I'll buy that.

Either way, that is NOT the "field coming up in chunks" BS thats been stated all over the internet. That's false.

It is still a major indictment on the field.

Its an indictment on the SB grounds crew.

The grass at Levis was fine all year (with the notable exception of the Ravens kicker who stepped on a seam and the sod slid sideways...IE, not a sinkhole even tho from some angles thats what it looks like).

This looks like a sinkhole...but you can see that it slides sideways even in THIS angle.



Just to be clear, I'm not saying "hey, no worries...everythings cool!!". THAT is NOT acceptable. The sod shouldn't split at the seam like that. Thats dangerous.

...but that was pretty much the ONLY issue with the field all year. Some quote the Russel Wilson slide, but he stuck his cleat into the sod before the slide. Whats the expectation there...is it supposed to give and kick up chunks or is it supposed to hold fast? Which is it? It looked much more to me that he slid at an awkward angle with an approaching defender and his cleat stuck in the grass.

I guess its just the "turf monster at Levis" thing that just bugs me. The first year was a nightmare. No argument from me. Now its MUCH better, tho the overuse of the stadium can become an issue at times.

Its just taken on a life of its own at this point so anytime ANYTHING happens on theat field even if its completely normal, it's reported as "Turf monster at Levis again".

 

[Marvin49]

Are you under the impression this is NEW?

As has been stated many times, THE TURF DIDN'T GIVE. Did you see it give? No, you didn't. You saw him slip ON TOP of the grass.

The issue was a damp surface and players choosing a cleat with almost no spike. Once they switched the cleat, they had no issue...just as Von Miller stated. That is an issue with the cleat, not the turf.

Marvin, you're a smart dude and I like you.

But c'mon, you don't ever see see what happened to Oher there happen on fieldturf, even on the wettest of days.

IMO it is something that the PA needs to be more vocal about; while there's inherent risks anytime a player steps on the field, it isn't hard to imagine Oher's groin tearing there, potentially costing him millions in current and potential future earnings.

Sorry man....you will never convince me Field Turf is better. I can't stand the stuff. This has nothing to do with "well my team has this so I'll defend it" either because it would be a nice, simple solution to just rip up all the grass and put in Field Turf.

It would even be cheaper.

I just hate the stuff with a passion. Yes, it is LIGHT YEARS better than Astroturf. I'd never even begin to say its not much better...

...but to me, thats just a really low bar to clear. Yes, its better than outdoor carpet on concrete. Gratz.

It still ain't grass.

And I'm not knocking it because it is SF/York for having this. I went to the hockey game there and Levi's is perhaps the finest stadium I've ever been to; in terms of appearance, modernity, sightlines, and functionality it as Clink beat by a country mile IMO.

To me it's about more than "hey dude, get your cleats right", that is oversimplifying much like people saying the answer to "hack-a-whoever" in basketball is making your free throws. A player or equipment staff misjudging cleat selection shouldn't send someone to IR or result in a run going 70 yards because your all-pro safety slipped in the hole.

Though not as egregious as the center-field hill in Houston or the concrete only feet away from the field in St Louis that cost Reggie Bush his season, grass just lends itself to too much inconsistency when there could be one uniform standard of consistency no matter where the game is being played.

If you saw the Hawks-Skins playoff game from a few years ago you'd see the issue with grass come winter. May have cost a franchise QB his career and cost Chris Clemons his ACL.

Though if there must be grass, SF doesn't rank anywhere near Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, and Carolina in terms of my disdain for it.

If Kaep was still the guy in SF though, would you not want him playing on the fastest surface possible?

You might want to tell some SF residents your thought on Levis. LOL. Some are so caught up in Candlestick lala land that they can't see Levis for what it is.

Anyway...

What happened in Washington was horrible...but lets be real. That wasn't grass. That was painted dirt.

As for Kap and surface? He's fast on any surface. I'm good with grass regardless of who is on the team....and to be honest, I would never want to make a decision about surface based on specific players on the team. When they get used to those conditions, it tends to show in your road record when you are NOT in those conditions (and I am speaking in general...not refering to any specific team).

 

[kobebryant]

If nostalgia and history was reason enough to stay in the same building most of the league would be playing in a dump, sad to say.

Fair enough. Speed is relative to the other guys on the field anyway.

As someone who was a basketball player and sprinter and too skinny to have the onions to step on the gridiron, I'm admittedly biased towards hard and fast surfaces.

 

[Marvin49]

Ya know what tho?

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong. Maybe the "Levi's Turf Monster" is a legend I should propogate.

Perhaps the FEAR of the turf monster is something we as Niner fans should cultivate.

 

[Marvin49]

If nostalgia and history was reason enough to stay in the same building most of the league would be playing in a dump, sad to say.

Fair enough. Speed is relative to the other guys on the field anyway.

As someone who was a basketball player and sprinter and too skinny to have the onions to step on the gridiron, I'm admittedly biased towards hard and fast surfaces.

Couldn't agree more with that top line.

I LOVED Candlestick...but it never escaped my attention that the place was a dump. It was a boondogle since the day it was built and only got worse with age.

What I LOVED about Candlestick was the history in those walls. All of the games that took place there. Monday Night games. Playoff Games. NFC Championship games.

SF fans will feel similarly about Levis, but it needs to get some pelts on the wall. A SB? A coming National Championship Game? Those help, but what they REALLY need is some playoff wins in those walls. Sadly (for Niner fans anyway), that might be aways away.

Many Niner fans see the line between winning at Candlestick/Losing at Levi's. Obviously, it's never that simple.

 

[kobebryant]

Ya know what tho?

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong. Maybe the "Levi's Turf Monster" is a legend I should propogate.

Perhaps the FEAR of the turf monster is something we as Niner fans should cultivate.

haha, like the imaginary Leprechaun that used to sit on the rim at the Boston Garden.

Obviously had to quantify that the Leprechaun was imaginary.