Geno and the middle of the field

[Ozzy]

Interesting video. I’ve always thought Russ could do it although it was always going to be an area he wouldn’t excel in because of physical limitations. Geno doesn’t have those yet here we are again with the same exact issue. Is it Pete’s offense that causes this because we’ve had multiple OCs and it’s always been there. I’m not sure although it’s a fair question.

 

[hawkfan68]

Good point. Plus we heard the same long developing plays thing when Bates was the OC and it's the same now with Waldron along with those who came between those two.

 

[hoxrox]

Wasn't the game winner to DK (before the FG) in the middle of the field?

I don't buy the Pete meddling angle. Before the season Pete said they would "let it loose" on offense, based on what he saw from Geno last year.

And if you look at Geno's passing charts, they show plenty of middle of the field targets this season and last. Perhaps there is less volume this season compared to other QBs, but that's more likely due to a Geno performance / decision-making / battled balls issue than a schematic issue.

 

[QWERTY]

Why is this in Mariners thread?

Mod edit: moved to right forum

 

[Cyrus12]

Last year Geno was throwing all over the field..in fact it was so refreshing to see the offensive scheme they were running. Russ had bombs and moonball passes...Zero quick passes. And literally nothing in the middle. This year its almost like Geno has turned into Russ..forcing the ball downfield and making weird or bad decisions. Everyone knows for guys like Russ and Geno to be successful the run game has to be established. These guys can't thrive without it. Waldron or Pete seem to wanna turn Geno into a throwing qb...he isn't. We have two top round drafted qbs. They need to be the focus of the offense which will open up play action and other passing plays. I just don't know who is behind the play calling but its messed up this year for whatever reason.

 

[minormillikin]

Those 2 big catches by DK at the end of the game are exactly the thing I want to see. DK should be slanting across the middle of the field to take advantage of his speed.

Watch some clips of early Randy Moss on the Vikings, getting giant yards after catch on crossing patterns. That's how I'd use DK.

It seems like he mostly gets targeted along the sideline with a defender hanging all over him, which takes advantage of his size and hands, but I think we get more from his speed. Geno can make higher percentage, shorter passes, and still get giant gains.

 

[Cyrus12]

Those 2 big catches by DK at the end of the game are exactly the thing I want to see. DK should be slanting across the middle of the field to take advantage of his speed.

Watch some clips of early Randy Moss on the Vikings, getting giant yards after catch on crossing patterns. That's how I'd use DK.

It seems like he mostly gets targeted along the sideline with a defender hanging all over him, which takes advantage of his size and hands, but I think we get more from his speed. Geno can make higher percentage, shorter passes, and still get giant gains.

Agree. Dk running in a straight line downfield hasn't been all that successful. Lockett does it better imo.

 

[Maelstrom787]

This PFF chart has caused some hubbub, but there's absolutely some weirdness in how they're calculating "middle of field." The pass charts don't reveal a significant desert in the middle of field outside of Carolina

 

[Ozzy]

This PFF chart has caused some hubbub, but there's absolutely some weirdness in how they're calculating "middle of field." The pass charts don't reveal a significant desert in the middle of field outside of Carolina

But everyone is measured by the same formula so it’s still much less than anyone else.

 

[Maelstrom787]

But everyone is measured by the same formula so it’s still much less than anyone else.

This is true. Given 2022, my hope is that the combination of increased pressure and the sudden drop of gameplanning with the tight ends are the primary contributors to this phenomenon. I don't think Pete is especially philosophically opposed to throwing over the middle, and I doubt he's hamstringing Waldron in that regard considering his overall willingness to allow Geno to push harder in the passing game.

 

[knownone]

Okay. Someone walk me through this. Seattle passes over the middle about 25% of the time—Geno's one of the best QBs at passing over the middle in terms of EPA. What's the issue? How is this indicative of Pete meddling?

 

[sutz]

at the idea of Pete "meddling" in the offense. He's the head coach. He can meddle in anything he damn pleases to.

It is true that they play the outside game. I remember them talking about the red line, basically the part of the field outside the numbers as an area they practice a lot on with out routes and such. It has one big advantage. If the ball bounces off the receiver's hands, there's a 50/50 chance the DB that catches it is a backup standing on the sideline.

Should we throw more over the middle? Probably, given our TE crew - which has been underutilized recently IMO - and RBs, it seems like we could be very good at it.

I'd say that Geno's high neg play number is heavily influenced by some poor WR play, as well as the patchwork OL we've been working with the first half of the season. INTs aren't all the QBs fault, though they go on his stat line.

 

[Palmegranite]

It's a double whammy from watching the video. So many posters on this sight saying "you're not winning the right way" if you don't (can't??) throw to the middle of the field.
The counter argument is that it's a safer plan to always target the edges of the field, as the interception possibilities are less.(Pete's phootball philosophy).

This video shows numbers where Geno hardly throws to the middle this season, and yet he has a high-ish interception ratio. This is a bad combination.

The bright side is that the Seahawks are winning games, and in the end, that's the most important metric.

 

[hoxrox]

It is true that they play the outside game. I remember them talking about the red line, basically the part of the field outside the numbers as an area they practice a lot on with out routes and such. It has one big advantage. If the ball bounces off the receiver's hands, there's a 50/50 chance the DB that catches it is a backup standing on the sideline.

Should we throw more over the middle? Probably, given our TE crew - which has been underutilized recently IMO - and RBs, it seems like we could be very good at it.

Is there a source for this being Pete's philosophy or tendency? I always thought this was a fan generated rumor by the likes of John63. It just seems strange that they would throw all over the yard last season, and then intentionally go away from it when it has been effective.

Agree on the TEs. More seam and post routes to the TEs, please.

 

[BASF]

Is there a source for this being Pete's philosophy or tendency? I always thought this was a fan generated rumor by the likes of John63. It just seems strange that they would throw all over the yard last season, and then intentionally go away from it when it has been effective.

Agree on the TEs. More seam and post routes to the TEs, please.

It stems from Pete's book Win Forever where he discusses red line throws being better because there is higher chance of interception throwing to the middle of the field.

 

[sutz]

Here's one write-up from the early days.

"Owning the Redline"

Breaking down a major Seahawks' offensive principle for 2013.

www.fieldgulls.com

But, Percy was to be but a piece of the offense, as Carroll has pointed out numerous times. The focus, of late, has been on something you might have heard the players referencing the past few weeks: 'the redline.'

You may or may not have noticed peculiar red lines running up and down the three playing fields at the VMAC if you were one of the lucky ones to attend Seahawks' training camp practices. If you haven't noticed this before - check out this photo.

It's fairly faint in this pic, but you can see a red line on the practice field.

On each of the Seahawks' fields runs a red line, about halfway between the numbers and the sideline. This red line (hereafter called 'the redline') is a central piece in both the offensive and defensive principles the Seahawks are focusing on in 2013. This first article will break down the offensive importance, and part two will talk about why it's a big deal on defense.

 

[knownone]

I screwed around with a 5-year-old Python script to get these. So, the quality is not excellent, but it should add clarity to the image used in the video. For example, Purdy has the 6th highest percentage of passes over the MOF in that graphic. Meanwhile, the total difference between Geno and Purdy is ten passes.

 

[hoxrox]

It stems from Pete's book Win Forever where he discusses red line throws being better because there is higher chance of interception throwing to the middle of the field.

I downloaded this as an ebook, and there is no reference to "red line" nor "middle of the field" in the book.







I even read the section about turnover Thursdays, and no reference to "middle of the field" and turnovers.

John63 fan fiction perhaps?

 

[hoxrox]

Here's one write-up from the early days.

"Owning the Redline"

Breaking down a major Seahawks' offensive principle for 2013.

www.fieldgulls.com

It's fairly faint in this pic, but you can see a red line on the practice field.
View attachment 61918

Thanks for this article. I read it, and it talks about the concept of "owning or controlling the red line," as something they focus on in practice and in games. However, it doesn't explicit state that Pete prefers red line throws to middle to field throws. Perhaps there is another source that explicit states this, but this article does not.

Also the red line concept is used by many teams. It is not a PC exclusive.

 

[AK49Hawk]

I think the Lions game is a good “template” of how this offense should be playing.