Greg Olsen reveals that Pete handcuffed Wilson last year

[Maelstrom787]

Team was down the entire game and Wilson still only passed 27 times to 25 runs.

With Lupati and Pocic allowing that much pressure, a good coach should have rolled Wilson out to get away from it. I'll let you guess how many times a roll out was called. (Hint - ZERO),

This is probably why the playcaller from that season and game got fired, and they hired a new one.

We had to start running more because our line was being dominated at the line of scrimmage on pass plays. I don't think there is any poster here that will disagree that we needed to roll Wilson out more to relieve the pressure. I agree with Maelstrom, it is probably the reason Schotty was let go. His schemes were not up to date and carried almost no variations, which in todays NFL means you will only last so long.

He quit, the reason is Pete was meddling, there is also the fact he could not figure out how to beat cover two which is why Pete was meddling. It was philosophical differences why he left, so really Pete wanted things done his way and Schotty was basically a puppet going forward.

Seems like an incredibly vague and easy narrative to swallow that probably doesn't reflect reality. It's just an easy answer to assign blame for disappointing postseason results.

Head coaches set the direction for the team. Period. It is just as likely that Schottenheimer simply didn't have a reasonable plan, as the primary playcaller, to reimagine the offense as one that can't be so easily figured out.

We can talk and talk and talk about Pete's "meddling," but if you think that he's a puppetmaster who is simply installing figurehead coordinators, then you're completely missing the first part of 2020 where the offensive philisophy looked brand new, and you're missing this last game where the offense was unrecognizable from that of old.

But, yeah. I'm sure that an offended Schottenheimer quit and stormed right out of the room to go coordinate a pass game for the famously hands-off, non-meddling URBAN MEYER. Makes sense.

 

[BASF]

He quit, the reason is Pete was meddling, there is also the fact he could not figure out how to beat cover two which is why Pete was meddling. It was philosophical differences why he left, so really Pete wanted things done his way and Schotty was basically a puppet going forward.

Not what the articles say:

https://apnews.com/article/nfl-seat...ssell-wilson-79e07d469f13cbe76e4a1f6f5124a4ff

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/12/seahawks-fire-brian-schottenheimer/

https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1265477/seahawks-fire-brian-schottenheimer/

Ultimately the fact that none of them had an answer for the league adjusting to their offense is enough to want the change that most of us were clamoring for before last season. The change they did implement was figured out within half a season. Thus the Waldron hire.

 

[hoxrox]

Minor technicality, but fumbles recovered by the other team counts as turnovers:

Week 7 vs Cards = 3 Ints
Week 9 @ Bills = 2 Ints, 2 Fumbles Lost
Week 10 @ LA = 2 Ints, 1 Fumble Lost

---10 Total Turnovers over 4 games.

But it doesn't really matter now, does it?

Regarding this tiresome debate, there can be no more excuses going forward.

1) Wilson has the most weapons he’s ever had
2) IF RBs remain healthy, Wilson has the running game support/balance needed for the offense to succeed
3) Perhaps not excellent, but he has ADEQUATE Pass Pro
4) New OC = Modern NFL offense

If the offense flounders this year, it will not be because of so-called handcuffing, coaching or scheme. It will be because of execution. Let me repeat for those in the back: EX·E·CU·TION

 

[misfit]

It's not so much the fact that Pete put the handcuffs on Russ after the terrible six turnovers in four game stretch, it's the fact that Pete, Russell and Schotty had no answers for teams figuring out how to defend what they were doing.

Once we started playing good defenses that just took away the deep passing routes with two high safeties? We had no answer.

THAT my friends is the moral of the story here, not the fact that Pete put the handcuffs on Russ. That's football, the good teams, coaches and coordinators know how to adjust game to game, and series to series.

The fact that we had no answer is the inexcusable sequence for an obviously very talented offense that should have been able to figure out how to adjust.

sounds like an OC problem, because mysteriously in week 1 against the colts russ knows how to hit underneath routes and beat cover 2 when he had no answers against it for half a season last year.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's not so much the fact that Pete put the handcuffs on Russ after the terrible six turnovers in four game stretch, it's the fact that Pete, Russell and Schotty had no answers for teams figuring out how to defend what they were doing.

Once we started playing good defenses that just took away the deep passing routes with two high safeties? We had no answer.

THAT my friends is the moral of the story here, not the fact that Pete put the handcuffs on Russ. That's football, the good teams, coaches and coordinators know how to adjust game to game, and series to series.

The fact that we had no answer is the inexcusable sequence for an obviously very talented offense that should have been able to figure out how to adjust.

sounds like an OC problem, because mysteriously in week 1 against the colts russ knows how to hit underneath routes and beat cover 2 when he had no answers against it for half a season last year.

Mostly, but it's also a HC and QB problem IMO.

I don't compartmentalize this conversation. The offense's success, and failures are a three headed monster, OC, HC and QB, they're ALL in the meeting rooms all week breaking down film and installing the schemes, game plans and playcalling each and every week.

Schotty ran the offense within the confines of how Pete wanted it run, and Russell tries to execute within those same schemes and playbook.

I GUARANTEE you if you hooked Schotty up to a lie detector after that Ram's playoff loss he'd crucify Russ for easy reads and throws he missed because he had happy feet and panicked most of that game because the Ram's front seven was destroying our offensive line.

So handcuffed? Sure, but I place blame when the offense sucks on all three people. We can argue about percentages all day, but to just place the blame on the OC, or HC or QB isn't being honest with this conversation. It's all three, it's always all three.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Those pulled in reins sure didnt help in the playoffs.

This isnt news, its 'Pete Ball'. Happens every year at some point. It'll happen this season too.

If it wins us six of the last seven games so we aren't eliminated in December, I am all for it.

We tried passing in the playoffs last year. The reason we lost is Iupati getting owned constantly forcing Pocic to try to help him which allowed him to get owned. You can't handcuff your offense by allowing an old slow unhealthy lineman to come back for the playoffs and expect the offense to perform better. Pete allowed it two straight seasons. Let's hope that Iupati doesn't announce that he is unretiring for Pete to decide we can use him for our playoff run.

Team was down the entire game and Wilson still only passed 27 times to 25 runs.

With Lupati and Pocic allowing that much pressure, a good coach should have rolled Wilson out to get away from it. I'll let you guess how many times a roll out was called. (Hint - ZERO),

This is probably why the playcaller from that season and game got fired, and they hired a new one.

The 4th one under Carrolls tenure and not one of them moved on due to job offers. They were all fired. At some point fans need to see that the OC's are being used as scapegoats and that Pete is a problem.

 

[LTH]

It's not so much the fact that Pete put the handcuffs on Russ after the terrible six turnovers in four game stretch, it's the fact that Pete, Russell and Schotty had no answers for teams figuring out how to defend what they were doing.

Once we started playing good defenses that just took away the deep passing routes with two high safeties? We had no answer.

THAT my friends is the moral of the story here, not the fact that Pete put the handcuffs on Russ. That's football, the good teams, coaches and coordinators know how to adjust game to game, and series to series.

The fact that we had no answer is the inexcusable sequence for an obviously very talented offense that should have been able to figure out how to adjust.

Well the problem wasn't that they didn't have the answer, it was that Pete couldn't get Schotty to run the ball more. and I remember you calling for shorter intermediate passing attack... and u were right... I think Russ and Schotty made up there minds early on what they wanted the O to be and when the time came to adjust they didn't because they fell in love with the long ball...Russ has supreme confidence and believes he can do anything... but If they would have been committed to the run and the intermediate short passing game against the Rams they might have won that game in the playoffs... That's why Schotty got canned because he is stubborn and wanted to do things his way instead of what Pete wanted to see...Rightfully so being Pete is the head coach.

I like SW... It was a good decision to get rid of Schotty things will be different this year...


LTH

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The 4th one under Carrolls tenure and not one of them moved on due to job offers. They were all fired. At some point fans need to see that the OC's are being used as scapegoats and that Pete is a problem.

Most fans know that that Pete's always hired yes men OC's that were willing to work within his run the ball, control the clock, out physical your opponent antiquated offensive philosophy. Thus the four boring journeymen type OC's who were hired.

But Waldron SHOULD be a shift away from that. We shall see if Pete reverts back to Pete Ball when adversity strikes. Or is he willing to trust Russell and Waldron to adjust.

If he does? Then skies the limit for this offense, it's certainly talented enough to tap into that potential.

 

[BASF]

This is probably why the playcaller from that season and game got fired, and they hired a new one.

The 4th one under Carrolls tenure and not one of them moved on due to job offers. They were all fired. At some point fans need to see that the OC's are being used as scapegoats and that Pete is a problem.

It is funny that you keep banging this drum. Jeremy Bates was a pathetic offensive coordinator and needed to be fired. It is no coincidence that he has not lasted more than a year in that position for any team. No one in the NFL would even hire him for five years.

If anything we were too generous in keeping Bevell another year. Keeping him as the OC was the main reason that Pete lost a lot of the defensive stars who felt he needed to be held accountable for costing us a Superb Owl.

Do you truly believe that Schottenheimer deserved to be employed after the lack of adjustments to the Cover 2 last season?

Pete has a lot to be held accountable for, but firing those OC's is not one of them. As much as anyone wants to belittle Carroll for holding Wilson back, there is video evidence that the open receivers were there for Wilson to throw to, but he did not. Perhaps Schottenheimer was let go because he could not get Wilson to buy into throwing to the receivers he had schemed open at the end of last season.

 

[LTH]

The 4th one under Carrolls tenure and not one of them moved on due to job offers. They were all fired. At some point fans need to see that the OC's are being used as scapegoats and that Pete is a problem.

Most fans know that that Pete's always hired yes men OC's that were willing to work within his run the ball, control the clock, out physical your opponent antiquated offensive philosophy. Thus the four boring journeymen type OC's who were hired.

But Waldron SHOULD be a shift away from that. We shall see if Pete reverts back to Pete Ball when adversity strikes. Or is he willing to trust Russell and Waldron to adjust.

If he does? Then skies the limit for this offense, it's certainly talented enough to tap into that potential.

I dont see the Pete ball thing... Never did understand that.. I think SW version of the WCO is going to suit this team well... I would put money down that Wilson is going to get to that 70% completion ratio as well as hit the long ball 2-3 times a game and Carson is going to be considerably over 1000 yards... This is what we want with the talent this team has this is going to be a really potent balance O...


LTH

 

[LickMyNuts]

The good news.

SW worked on the same staff as Brandon Staley(now hc of Chargers) who developed these two high shells. He’s from the Vic Fangio tree.

SW should help us overcome these systems and we are already familiar with the San Fran system because it’s a derivative of our own defense.

 

[hawk45]

What I saw rewatching games was that schotty did indeed have shorter routes, multiple on a given play but that Russ couldn’t or wouldn’t hit them reliably.

The answer should have been to dial up some of these nice intermediate routes that Russ is able to see better but that still thwart the 2 high scheme as we saw v Indy. I always admired how the Rams used PA to throw to wide open receivers behind the space LBs vacated and hated hated hated that we didn’t do the same to that extent, preferring deeper shots off PA.

I feel that schotty couldn’t or wouldn’t scheme the intermediate layer competently enough, and the short passing game doesn’t work to Wilson’s strengths, so Pete said okay then we run the ball which is all that’s left to counter 2 high and was the right move. Schotty not buying in to Pete’s correct decision got him canned.

Since Waldron can scheme the intermediate layer, I notice Pete had no problems whatsoever throwing the ball all over the yard.

Now, Pete may have hired limited OCs in the past, but getting back to running when thr OCs couldn’t figure it out has been the right move.

If Waldron demonstrates he has an answer for opposing defenses and their adjustments then Pete will let them cook. If we lose multiple games because of *bad* (not flukey) interceptions, like last year, and Pete feels like what he’s hearing from the OC isn’t a solid answer, then the handcuffs will go back on, and rightly so.

To me this is good coaching. The key is hiring an OC who can adjust so you don’t have to handcuff him for the good of the team.

 

[Maelstrom787]

If it wins us six of the last seven games so we aren't eliminated in December, I am all for it.

We tried passing in the playoffs last year. The reason we lost is Iupati getting owned constantly forcing Pocic to try to help him which allowed him to get owned. You can't handcuff your offense by allowing an old slow unhealthy lineman to come back for the playoffs and expect the offense to perform better. Pete allowed it two straight seasons. Let's hope that Iupati doesn't announce that he is unretiring for Pete to decide we can use him for our playoff run.

Team was down the entire game and Wilson still only passed 27 times to 25 runs.

With Lupati and Pocic allowing that much pressure, a good coach should have rolled Wilson out to get away from it. I'll let you guess how many times a roll out was called. (Hint - ZERO),

This is probably why the playcaller from that season and game got fired, and they hired a new one.

The 4th one under Carrolls tenure and not one of them moved on due to job offers. They were all fired. At some point fans need to see that the OC's are being used as scapegoats and that Pete is a problem.

White-knighting for Bevell and Schottenheimer over Carroll? You sure this is the route you wanna go down?

 

[CalgaryFan05]

It is always amazing me how many people would rather look good and lose than play conservatively and win.

Quite right - my old adage in business always used to be: "Don't confuse activity with results!".

 

[pittpnthrs]

This is probably why the playcaller from that season and game got fired, and they hired a new one.

The 4th one under Carrolls tenure and not one of them moved on due to job offers. They were all fired. At some point fans need to see that the OC's are being used as scapegoats and that Pete is a problem.

It is funny that you keep banging this drum. Jeremy Bates was a pathetic offensive coordinator and needed to be fired. It is no coincidence that he has not lasted more than a year in that position for any team. No one in the NFL would even hire him for five years.

If anything we were too generous in keeping Bevell another year. Keeping him as the OC was the main reason that Pete lost a lot of the defensive stars who felt he needed to be held accountable for costing us a Superb Owl.

Do you truly believe that Schottenheimer deserved to be employed after the lack of adjustments to the Cover 2 last season?

Pete has a lot to be held accountable for, but firing those OC's is not one of them. As much as anyone wants to belittle Carroll for holding Wilson back, there is video evidence that the open receivers were there for Wilson to throw to, but he did not. Perhaps Schottenheimer was let go because he could not get Wilson to buy into throwing to the receivers he had schemed open at the end of last season.

See, you are still under the impression that Carroll doesnt meddle with the OC's schemes and plans when in truth, he does that exact thing every single season. Seriously, every single year Carroll has been with Seattle, there's been a point where he interferes and implements his way, hence the 'Pete Ball' moniker. It'll happen again this season too at some point. Thats why i've always said it really doesnt matter who the OC is.

The whole cover 2 thing, Pete Carroll is 70 years old and has coached football his entire life and he's never seen a cover 2 or had an answer to it in his entire coaching career? He has no problem meddling with the offense for other reasons, why didnt he have any input for that? Instead, his answer is to fire the OC instead of taking any of the accountability for himself. Thats the coach that Seahawk fans give a free pass to year after year. Just because he had a team for a year that had so much talent that they were able to overcome his coaching deficiencies, he's untouchable now and the team will continue to suffer in the post season because of it.

 

[Scorpion05]

Holy Catfish this is the longest running argument we’ve ever had.
Same dudes, same words over and over.

I try to keep in mind that football is a team sport and the team includes the coaches.
I think it’s a pretty rare occurrence that a win or loss can be completely placed on one team member.

As fans, we’ve seen the most successful area under Pete w/Russ as QB. I simply don’t understand the obsession with arguing about PC&RW.
Is there a reasonable explanation?

I can’t speak for anyone else, but the reason I posted this topic is because before…the idea that Pete interfered with the offense was treated as a conspiracy theory. Russ being hesitant, being afraid to turn the ball over, seeming to lose confidence…people like myself argued that Pete clearly had an influence over the offense and HOW the game was played.

Now we have a pretty reliable, well respected source who was actually there. And he’s saying what was dismissed as a Conspiracy on this forum. Pete interfered, Russ became hesitant, and the over the top criticism of Russ’ play in the 2nd half of the season is irrelevant if the coach is literally restricting Russ from playing QB at his level.

Playing QB is about instincts. They have to make decisions in less than 1 second. If your coach is dramatically drawing back the gameplan and affecting those instincts, that’s bad. It’s the only reason I wanted Russ traded. To me, Pete showed no respect for his QB, his smarts, his abilities and it showed. He treated Russ close to how Brian Flores treats Tua. No trust at all.

 

[pittpnthrs]

White-knighting for Bevell and Schottenheimer over Carroll? You sure this is the route you wanna go down?

Lol. White knighting for Bevell? The OC that Carroll chose over the players and in turn lost the locker room and a possible dynasty? Hardly.

Schottenheimer was nothing more than a 'Yes Man'. Nobody was thrilled with that hire. He served his purpose. He was the fall guy when Pete needed him to be.

 

[pmedic920]

Holy Catfish this is the longest running argument we’ve ever had.
Same dudes, same words over and over.

I try to keep in mind that football is a team sport and the team includes the coaches.
I think it’s a pretty rare occurrence that a win or loss can be completely placed on one team member.

As fans, we’ve seen the most successful area under Pete w/Russ as QB. I simply don’t understand the obsession with arguing about PC&RW.
Is there a reasonable explanation?

I can’t speak for anyone else, but the reason I posted this topic is because before…the idea that Pete interfered with the offense was treated as a conspiracy theory. Russ being hesitant, being afraid to turn the ball over, seeming to lose confidence…people like myself argued that Pete clearly had an influence over the offense and HOW the game was played.

Now we have a pretty reliable, well respected source who was actually there. And he’s saying what was dismissed as a Conspiracy on this forum. Pete interfered, Russ became hesitant, and the over the top criticism of Russ’ play in the 2nd half of the season is irrelevant if the coach is literally restricting Russ from playing QB at his level.

Playing QB is about instincts. They have to make decisions in less than 1 second. If your coach is dramatically drawing back the gameplan and affecting those instincts, that’s bad. It’s the only reason I wanted Russ traded. To me, Pete showed no respect for his QB, his smarts, his abilities and it showed. He treated Russ close to how Brian Flores treats Tua. No trust at all.

My post wasn’t a slight on you personally.

It’s a simple observation that we argue the same couple of issues over and over.

 

[Scorpion05]

But if you do consider him a Top 5 QB, then what Pete did is absurd. Trusting your QB is essential in this league.

I don't think it's anywhere near that simple. What matters is why the QB is turning the ball over. Good decisions can lead to turnovers if the receiver bobbles it or the defender makes a great play, and QBs get away with bad decisions all the time when the defender does not make the play. Russ's turnovers in the GB playoff game were fine because they were mostly Kearse's fault, and they kept on going that way because they felt it was a fluke.

If any QB is throwing bad INTs, Brady and Brees included, then that is cause for concern and adjustments. Most of Russ's turnovers over his career have been relatively excusable because he has been careful with the football.

Between week 6 and week 9 last season Russ had 10 turnovers and the team lost three games. Many people, including myself, argue that a key reason for these turnovers was that the opposing defenses shifted to more cover 2 in order to limit our extremely successful deep passing attack and our offense continued to try forcing big plays instead of adapting. It doesn't matter whose fault that is, the point is that there was a clear problem that the coaching staff needed to address.

Whether the coaching staff fixed things in the right way or not is obviously a matter of debate, but I find myself agreeing with Maelstrom that it is really weird that some posters here think our coaching staff should not do obvious coaching things.

What you're saying is actually pretty logical and fair. For most QBs in the league. The question is, do you think those "obvious coaching things" apply to Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Josh Allen, Mahomes, Peyton Manning, etc.?

Can we honestly say that when any of those QBs (once they were designated as elite) had a rough stretch, their coach went to such lengths to make their QB manage the game? Because to be honest that is what Russell Wilson was in the 2nd half of the season except for 2 games. A game manager, while being paid like an elite QB. And it's not just because of poor play, there was clearly a shift in opening up the offense.

From a purely football perspective you're absolutely right. Coaches do coaching things. But I think this conversation is revealing that Pete, and frankly some of us fans, do not see Russ as being in that category. I think there was real anger from Russ and his camp in the offseason, despite attempts to downplay the drama. Hence why he suggested possible trade destinations. If Russ has a bad game or two this year, will he get the same flexibility that other great QBs have gotten when they have high turnovers?

 

[Scorpion05]

Holy Catfish this is the longest running argument we’ve ever had.
Same dudes, same words over and over.

I try to keep in mind that football is a team sport and the team includes the coaches.
I think it’s a pretty rare occurrence that a win or loss can be completely placed on one team member.

As fans, we’ve seen the most successful area under Pete w/Russ as QB. I simply don’t understand the obsession with arguing about PC&RW.
Is there a reasonable explanation?

It's a collection of empty heads with too much idle time on their hands making noise. The repetitive noise is reminiscent of a scratched and worn out vinyl record.

I am actually not upset with those who believe in Pete's approach. Too often we come on here to yell at each other and argue just to argue.

I am only posting this, because it is no longer a fringe conspiracy theory. Which is what it was treated as. Pete interfered, it's officially confirmed by a respected individual who was on the team. And the offseason drama was real, despite some saying the media blew it out of proportion.

Pete interfered, Russ got angry and felt he wasn't trusted, and if Russ has another bad game or two or...the Seahawks falter in the playoffs..it's not farfetched to think the Pete/Russ era could come to an end. My general point is last year was not just as simple as Wilson playing poorly in the 2nd half of the season. There was conflict, there was frustration...and I do not want this era to come to an end anytime soon. So it's worth talking about from a big picture standpoint