Hawkblogger: rumors of a 4 year contract for Tate

[Scottemojo]

As far as discount goes, if you consider 12% interest on 4.5 million, that's about 500,000 in income tax. So taking 4 million in Seattle would be about the same as taking 4.5 million say in California.

Well, he still has to pay income taxes on games played in other states.

 

[plyka]

Plyka I don't want him at just under 6 per, but that would be my guess for the contract. He's our #1 wr and an elite punt returner

He is not our #1 and special teams doesn't really go much towards $6m per year. With a fully healthy Hawks team, Tate is the #4 WR behind Percy, Rice and BAldwin and perhaps TIED with Kearse. Even if you consider Rice gone, then we need to see who takes Rice's place in order to determine whether Tate is 3rd or 4th place.

Besides the sentimentality of fans, I just cannot see how or why anyone thinks Tate is worth $6m per year or that Tate is a #1 WR. A #1 WR on a team with Percy Harvin? I like Tate just as much as the next guy, but Percy Harvin and Tate are not even in the same world, we are talking about a completely different level of player here. And yet Tate is #1 WR on this team? I don't know where you guys are coming up with this stuff.

who said 6m year? one person? maybe 2?

I get what you're saying, you dont think he's worth 6 mil a year (and I agree). but there's only been one speculative post regarding that figure, everything else is around 4.5-5.

Is he worth that much in your eyes? Would you pay Tate 4.5m/year over 4 years?

At 4.5m for 4 years, I would say that's "fair" value. But I still would need to think about it. I think in the long run, you will have to take your pick of 1 player between Tate/Baldwin. I think both are worth the $4.5m figure per year. I like Baldwin better. I think Baldwin is the more natural WR, and has the better upside.

 

[Subzero717]

So the guy that tried to convince us that Wilson starting over Flynn was a conspiracy is telling me what exactly?

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Some things to think about.

Like some one has said his deal could be friendly.

1st: 3.5
2nd: 4.5
3rd: 5.5
4th: 6.5

That's 4 Yrs/20.5 Mil. Seahawks can give him a 8 million dollar signing bonus plus 1.5 mil guaranteed in each of his first two years giving him 11 million in guaranteed money in which he'll see about 7 mil of that in the first 2 seasons of the new contract. Low cost for the Seahawks and modest money for Tate, who can still earn an even bigger contract when he's 29.

You could also assume that Harvin likely won't play out his entire contract, I say he'll likely be gone after 2 more years. Which will coincide with Tate earning more money in the last two years of his deal.

Also, I think with that said Tate will be worth whatever the Seahawks give him. If they didn't feel he's worth it they will let him walk and get a good comp pick for it.

And lastly, those of you don't think he's worth it. I'd beg to differ.

First you got WR Tate, who with more targets he's pretty much a 1000 yard, 10 TD WR, for instant with under a 100 targets he still pulled in about

60 catches for 900 yards, about 14.0 yard per catch, and 5 TDs

Then if you thought of Punt Returning as another WR, he adds.

50 catches for 600 yards, about 12.0 yards per catch

You can do the math to see the importance of his skills as a PR but the main thing to take from that is that's about 600 yards of production added in about 50 catches that Russell Wilson doesn't have to drop back into a pass attempt for.

That's why in my opinion Tate, Baldwin, and Harvin are all important. When they give the Seahawks prime field position that means less field to score which means less plays that Wilson and Lynch have to be on the field for taking damage to their bodies, which will add up and keep them healthier throughout the season and allow them to be efficient deep into the Play-Offs.

That's why the most important thing this off-season his keeping the offense together and stabilizing the O-Line.

The Seahawks don't need Michael Bennett, when they can keep multiple players on what they give Bennett.

If you want to give Bennett a value less say he's worth three points. Hypothetically, Seahawks
allowing around 18 points a game but still having a top 5 defense is nothing if the Seahawks are averaging around 30 points a game and a having a top 3 offense.

They can achieve that with providing Wilson with trusted play-makers, which is why I can see Rice return on a restructure to a 1 year deal for 2.5 mil deal and be a Red Zone type specialist WR on a show me type contract.

 

[AVL]

So the guy that tried to convince us that.Wilson starting over Flynn was a conspiracy is telling me what exactly?

He sounds convincing but his conclusions are frequently inaccurate. He will have a stoke when Baldwin, his best source, leaves for the Colts.

 

[Subzero717]

So the guy that tried to convince us that.Wilson starting over Flynn was a conspiracy is telling me what exactly?

He sounds convincing but his conclusions are frequently inaccurate. He will have a stoke when Baldwin, his best source, leaves for the Colts.

Baldwin is restricted.

 

[Missing_Clink]

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that this rumor is false

 

[HawkWow]

A gentleman earlier in the thread cited Tate's return ability and how some may be overlooking that value. Add just 1 more yard to Tate's 11.8 YPR and Tate would be the 3rd best return man in the league. I don't recall him putting the ball on the carpet in over 50 returns and with many of those being rather dare-devilish.

Those dare devilish moments showed a hunger that you can't put a price on (IMO). Was this reckless abandon largely because he was in a contract year? Perhaps, but I don't think so. In fact, several (that had you and I holding our breath) he would have been wiser, from a dollar perspective, in fair catching or moving away from the ball. A fumble would have hurt him 10 x more than a 10 yard return would help him come negotiation time. Tate plays with fire and you get the sense he legitimately loves this team.

Many are calling the trio of ADB, Tate and Harvin "redundant". That just tells me that sometimes redundancy is a good thing. While similar, they are all unique in the own ways and you never know when injury will make that trio less than redundant. I've said this in too many threads, but I think we need to get Willson more involved in the passing game. The guy is huge and at Rice, ran a 4.5 on a "sloppy track". Maybe we cut him down to 240 and use him wide with more frequency, while still having the option of using him at TE. I just think the O-line is more important than a day 1, or even day 2 WR, when considering we have some great ball catchers right now. YMMV.

 

[HawkFan72]

There sure are a lot of $ numbers floating around in here for a rumor that has no legs outside of some blogger's speculation. We have nothing legitimate to work with or speculate over. Something would have come out by now from a legit news source if there was anything to this rumor.

 

[Rob12]

I really wish some people could look at statistics objectively when assessing a player's value.

The season that Golden Tate just had for us was pretty special. We're obviously a team that doesn't have an offense that will put up Madden-esque numbers, but Tate has gotten better each and every season that he has been here. In 2011, he caught all 35 catchable passes thrown his way. In 2013, his drop rate of 2 percent was only bested by Larry Fitzgerald, Keenan Allen, Marques Colston and Jordan Cameron (players with at least 64 receptions). He is as sure-handed as receivers come. He is a terror after the catch and is one of the best punt returners in the game. To say that he is a #4 receiver is absolutely laughable at best. You can call Harvin a #1 if you wish, but Golden Tate is durable and plays each week. For as much as I love me some Percy, he is not a traditional #1 and plays much better in the slot and in the backfield. Percy's career high in receiving yards is 967 yards, which means nothing, but how can he be a surefire #1 while Tate is reduced to a #4? Tate is obviously not as explosive as Percy, but the gap isn't that big. Sidney Rice is anything but durable (15 games missed in three seasons) and his production here has been extremely limited. His best season in Seattle was 150 yards less than what Tate had this past season. Not sure how he is two full spots ahead of Tate on the depth chart according to some here in this thread.

#4? Get out of here with that. On a team that doesn't finish second to last in passing attempts, Tate is good for 1,200+ yards quite easily. As a QB, you know that if you throw him a catchable ball, he is going to haul it in 98 percent of the time.

I think if we lost Tate, a lot of people here will wish like hell that we could have him back - even at $5 or $6M a season.

 

[ivotuk]

As far as discount goes, if you consider 12% interest on 4.5 million, that's about 500,000 in income tax. So taking 4 million in Seattle would be about the same as taking 4.5 million say in California.

Well, he still has to pay income taxes on games played in other states.

Is that for real? It seems like it could get really complicated with fines, expenses, etc. What if they play in an unusual location like after a natural disaster and they have to play in a different state?

Either way, that's 250,000 savings, add to that the cost of having to move, etc etc, it seems like it would be financially beneficial for a player to re-sign instead of moving on if the contract offers are comparable. Then there's learning a new team, new offense, and Seattle has the best facilities in the league.

Hope we keep him and I think 4 - 4.5 million is reasonable. Considering his punt returns, great hands and YAC abilities, he's more valuable than a WR with similar receiving statistics. Plus the familiarity with Russell and the game plan.

It's really hard to call, I love Tate and he has won us a couple of games, but so has Steven Hauschka. I keep thinking that even 5 million a year or a little over would be okay but then come back to the cost of the rest of the players. Who would lose money to give Golden that extra?\

Thank God, John Schneider is our general manager. :0190l:

 

[Scottemojo]

As far as discount goes, if you consider 12% interest on 4.5 million, that's about 500,000 in income tax. So taking 4 million in Seattle would be about the same as taking 4.5 million say in California.

Well, he still has to pay income taxes on games played in other states.

Is that for real? It seems like it could get really complicated with fines, expenses, etc. What if they play in an unusual location like after a natural disaster and they have to play in a different state?

Either way, that's 250,000 savings, add to that the cost of having to move, etc etc, it seems like it would be financially beneficial for a player to re-sign instead of moving on if the contract offers are comparable. Then there's learning a new team, new offense, and Seattle has the best facilities in the league.

Hope we keep him and I think 4 - 4.5 million is reasonable. Considering his punt returns, great hands and YAC abilities, he's more valuable than a WR with similar receiving statistics. Plus the familiarity with Russell and the game plan.

It's really hard to call, I love Tate and he has won us a couple of games, but so has Steven Hauschka. I keep thinking that even 5 million a year or a little over would be okay but then come back to the cost of the rest of the players. Who would lose money to give Golden that extra?\

Thank God, John Schneider is our general manager. :0190l:

Yes, it's for real. New Jersey will get more from Payton Manning in taxes than he actually got from the NFL as the losers share in the SB. Their formula divides your total salary by 235 working days, and they say he worked 8 days in New Jersey and want taxes on 8/235ths of his total wages. They even have a special tax task force to make sure they get paid by traveling athletes. Seattle players pay income taxes for games played in Cali. I have paid taxes working out of state myself, it is a paperwork nightmare.

I'm sure good front offices use every strategy to put a little money back under the cap, but the income tax one is a pretty small one. Every little bit counts though. However, a far bigger battle for front offices is that agents live and die recruiting future athletes on the size of current deals. Jay Z isn't building his reputation as an agent by negotiating small discounts for income tax.

 

[chrispy]

The taxes on players that have to play in Great Britain can be as high as 60% of their game check when adding the State, Fed, and British taxes.

And agents mostly try to minimize the tax information to their clients. They get paid on the gross income, not the net/after tax. It's to their advantage to get a deal signed that's 1% higher in pay even if the player has to pay 10% more in taxes. It screws the player but the agent makes his cut off the highest amount.

 

[Happypuppy]

I honestly was surprised to see how well Baldwin did playing at a Steve Smith type role as a true wideout. I would definitely sign in for at least a year

Tate I see coming back for three years at 5 to 6 per year

I think we can do overvalue our players; because they are ours. I am not saying he is not an excellent value but we have Percy doing kickoffs now and Baldwin seems to do well with punts

that makes tate less valuable to us in the kicking game

As a wide, there were games he was invisible and had no impact he still is not all that great of a route runner.


If we lose Tate we still need to pick up another wide or two in the draft if we keep Take we only need one.

I am assuming that Sydney will not make the roster

 

[hawkpride]

Golden is money, pay the man...Did you see the interview with RW when he talked about how he and Tate practice that corner endzone pass that only Tate can catch while dragging his tippy toes?

 

[HawkMeat]

So the guy that tried to convince us that Wilson starting over Flynn was a conspiracy is telling me what exactly?

Who did this! Blasphemy. :stirthepot:

 

[HawkMeat]

Golden is money, pay the man...Did you see the interview with RW when he talked about how he and Tate practice that corner endzone pass that only Tate can catch while dragging his tippy toes?

Really? Cool. Is that somewhere I can listen or read?

 

[Seahwkgal]

Tate is one of the best blocking WRs in the game. Catches, returns punts, and blocks hard. He's tough as nails. For 4 or 4.5 million a year, that's a bargain. I love Baldwin too but overall, I think Tate has more overall football value.

 

[KINGGRUMPY]

I think we see Tate's targets, catches, and yards continue to increase as #3 becomes a better QB. Who knows how long Lynch is going to last with his style of playing. I don't agree that Beast's replacement is on the roster. Eventually, Russell is going to have to really show what he can do. Who's to say that Tate won't develop into an All-Pro. Why not him? Somebody has to be right?

 

[3Girls'HawkDad]

I would be pretty happy with Harvin, Tate, Baldwin and Kearse.

I know some want the big, Calvin Johnson type. But I will take the human bat belt in Harvin. And Tate is awesome as a #2, especially when safeties will have to cheat toward #11. Tate is damn good 1 on 1. No homo