Hawks decline 5th year option for Carp

[themunn]

Sabin did indicate that he was surprised that Carpenter went in the first round. That doesn't make anything else he might have said about him invalid, and was my biggest thing about drafting Carp, that I felt we took him too early, that he was projected to be at best a mid 2nd rounder.

But don't pay any attention to me. I also said that I thought we took Russell Wilson too early in the 3rd round.

I agree, but my feeling at number 25 was that we REALLY wanted to trade down and pick Carpenter perhaps at the top of the 2nd round, but simply couldn't find any takers. Especially if you recall that we then didn't pick again until we took Moffit with the 75th pick - there's no way that we were happy with a 50 pick gap in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. A quick look at the trades that did occur in 2011 agree with me, as there weren't really any trades where somebody moved up into the late first round to take someone.

When that happens it forces your hand and you pick the best guy on your board, which in our case must have been Carpenter - and really, looking at every player taken between then and Moffit, there aren't many players that can make a case for being better. Arguably the worst draft for 2nd round talent in a long time

 

[RiverDog]

Sabin did indicate that he was surprised that Carpenter went in the first round. That doesn't make anything else he might have said about him invalid, and was my biggest thing about drafting Carp, that I felt we took him too early, that he was projected to be at best a mid 2nd rounder.

But don't pay any attention to me. I also said that I thought we took Russell Wilson too early in the 3rd round.

I agree, but my feeling at number 25 was that we REALLY wanted to trade down and pick Carpenter perhaps at the top of the 2nd round, but simply couldn't find any takers. Especially if you recall that we then didn't pick again until we took Moffit with the 75th pick - there's no way that we were happy with a 50 pick gap in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. A quick look at the trades that did occur in 2011 agree with me, as there weren't really any trades where somebody moved up into the late first round to take someone.

When that happens it forces your hand and you pick the best guy on your Bo, ward, which in our case must have been Carpenter - and really, looking at every player taken between then and Moffit, there aren't many players that can make a case for being better. Arguably the worst draft for 2nd round talent in a long time

Yeppers. As I recall, it took the Commish forever to get to the podium to announce our selection, time that I'm sure the Hawks were trying to use to swing a deal. I've heard that theory put forth before, and I don't doubt that it was true.

But the draft slot wasn't a huge deal with me, at least not at that particular time. I was consoled by some friends that reminded me that if he couldn't cut it at tackle, we could always make a guard out of him.

What really got me down on the Carpenter pick was the way he came to his first camp and his initial performance at RT. He was absolutely horrible in both regards, so far out of shape that he couldn't go two plays without breathing like a vacuum cleaner and showed absolutely no promise as a tackle. I can't see how football men as competent as Pete and John are in talent evaluation could miss that badly on something that at least to me, looked blatantly obvious. I wonder if Pete ever slaps his hand to his forehead when Carpenter is mentioned?

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

This will be the chip on his shoulder that will motivate his ass to the next level or he'll likely be cut.

But I'm not going to call him a bust who knows what he would have been had he not gone through the injuries.

The fact remains is the 2011 draft class sucked for Offensive Linemen... other than Smith, Pouncey, and Solder... who else stood out from that class. Answer = Nobody.

Carimi and Watkins were both cut from their original teams.

At least Carpenter, still has as a sliver of a chance to be something, and I think he's committing himself into taking that next step, which is controlling his weight... and if he's already down to 320 as reported a week or two ago the guy is opening up his ceiling again.

 

[RiverDog]

This will be the chip on his shoulder that will motivate his ass to the next level or he'll likely be cut.

But I'm not going to call him a bust who knows what he would have been had he not gone through the injuries.

The fact remains is the 2011 draft class sucked for Offensive Linemen... other than Smith, Pouncey, and Solder... who else stood out from that class. Answer = Nobody.

Carimi and Watkins were both cut from their original teams.

At least Carpenter, still has as a sliver of a chance to be something, and I think he's committing himself into taking that next step, which is controlling his weight... and if he's already down to 320 as reported a week or two ago the guy is opening up his ceiling again.

That still doesn't justify the selection and is of little consolation. I used to use the same logic to defend Aaron Curry, asking others if they would have rather we taken Mark Sanchez as it was rumored we might and who was the next one to go after Curry. The fact that a player's draft class was bad doesn't excuse poor judgment IMO, it simply suggest that misery likes company. Besides, who knows how any of those other possible selections would have turned out for other teams with different coaches and different systems.

You're right, the book isn't quite closed on Carpenter, but it's getting close. The failure to pick up his option is just one of the tea leaves. They didn't want to spend a paltry amount (2 years, $3M) to keep around the guy they seemed to prefer, so I can't imagine them wanting to fork out even that much for Carpenter next season when his rookie contract expires. And as far as his commitment to getting into shape...I'll believe it when I see it. It will be a first if he does. If it wasn't for the fact that we've already let two starters go without bringing in replacements through FA, I'd wager a fair sum that he won't even make our roster, but we're so thin on the OL that I don't think he's going to be faced with the same level of competition that there is at other positions on our roster.

 

[Scottemojo]

2014 is a contract year for Carpenter. A lot of his future earnings depend on how he competes this year.

While I do not expect him to be a Hawk next year, I do expect him to have his best year, purely out of necessity, as a Hawk in 2014.

 

[seahawk12thman]

This will be the chip on his shoulder that will motivate his ass to the next level or he'll likely be cut.

But I'm not going to call him a bust who knows what he would have been had he not gone through the injuries.

The fact remains is the 2011 draft class sucked for Offensive Linemen... other than Smith, Pouncey, and Solder... who else stood out from that class. Answer = Nobody.

Carimi and Watkins were both cut from their original teams.

At least Carpenter, still has as a sliver of a chance to be something, and I think he's committing himself into taking that next step, which is controlling his weight... and if he's already down to 320 as reported a week or two ago the guy is opening up his ceiling again.

Yes yes yes. Carpenters only weakness was his quickness getting to linebackers. Watch what he did to pot roast on Lynch's touchdown run; blew him off the ball. Carpenter manhandles down lineman and his pass protection is outstanding. The ONLY thing lacking was his speed getting to linebackers because he was heavy and yet, he still started the nfc championship game and superbowl. Btw on Lynch's td run against sf, the hole through Sweezy and Breno was clogged but because Carpenter destroyed his man, lynch was able to cut back through the middle. Carpenter at 320 ?? Yes please!!!

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Problem with a guy like Carp FINALLY losing the weight and committing himself to fitness in a contract year as that many guys in the same situation returned to their bad habits once they got their contract. They have the one good year and then fall back off the cliff. As Scott said above I don't think he's a Hawk in '15 and I think it's likely cuz Pete and John expect what I just mentioned to come to pass.

 

[RiverDog]

This will be the chip on his shoulder that will motivate his ass to the next level or he'll likely be cut.

But I'm not going to call him a bust who knows what he would have been had he not gone through the injuries.

The fact remains is the 2011 draft class sucked for Offensive Linemen... other than Smith, Pouncey, and Solder... who else stood out from that class. Answer = Nobody.

Carimi and Watkins were both cut from their original teams.

At least Carpenter, still has as a sliver of a chance to be something, and I think he's committing himself into taking that next step, which is controlling his weight... and if he's already down to 320 as reported a week or two ago the guy is opening up his ceiling again.

Yes yes yes. Carpenters only weakness was his quickness getting to linebackers. Watch what he did to pot roast on Lynch's touchdown run; blew him off the ball. Carpenter manhandles down lineman and his pass protection is outstanding. The ONLY thing lacking was his speed getting to linebackers because he was heavy and yet, he still started the nfc championship game and superbowl. Btw on Lynch's td run against sf, the hole through Sweezy and Breno was clogged but because Carpenter destroyed his man, lynch was able to cut back through the middle. Carpenter at 320 ?? Yes please!!!

That's definitely a weakness, yes. Carpenter is not quick enough to block a linebacker. I saw Brian Cushing step right around Carp as if he was standing still and nail Beast at the LOS this season in Houston. Carpenter didn't so much as lay a finger on Cushing.

But that's not his only weakness. You seldom see him more than a few yards downfield pursuing plays. He doesn't get out and cut off pursuit on plays that go opposite his side. You never see him pulling and throwing trap blocks. He gets beat in pass protection too much. The only place where I see Carpenter excelling at is point of attack run blocking. He's a mauler.

If he loses some weight and comes to camp in shape and a little lighter a foot as one poster indicated that he might, then perhaps he can improve. If not, I don't see any use for him other than depth and short yardage situations. He's not well rounded enough to be a solid starter. He'll probably make the squad this year simply because we lack experience and depth on the OL, but unless he does a 180 degree about face and has a solid year this season, no way he gets a second contract from us next season.

 

[Hawksfanatik]

If I remember correctly, OL coach Tom Cable asked Pete and John for Carp and Moffitt. That was not a great draft for him.

 

[hawknation2014]

I hope there's a genuine competition for that left guard spot. Alvin Bailey is probably better than Carpenter right now. PFF gave Carpenter the worst run blocking grade on the team: -13.7. That's just ugly.

But here's what Tom Cable had to say a few months ago about Carpenter's progress:

“I think James is a pro now,” line coach Tom Cable said. “I think he understands how to play. I think he’s in great shape. He understands the system. So he’s a pro. He’s becoming what we picked him to be.

“And that’s good. Because he’s been through all the traumas and all the ups and down you go through when you’re young. He’s played quite well lately.”

“There’s no doubt, he’s much more comfortable in there,” Cable said. “And he fits for us, for sure.”

http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/a ... 9600bd303a

 

[RiverDog]

If I remember correctly, OL coach Tom Cable asked Pete and John for Carp and Moffitt. That was not a great draft for him.

That draft is one of the reasons why I am not a Tom Cable fan. If he's the one that thought that James Carpenter had the skill set to be a reliable offensive tackle in the NFL, then he's bordering on the verge of incompetency. I also attribute the number of holding calls our linemen pick up to him. Holding penalties are a coachable problem, and his teams have always been amongst the most penalized. I will have to give him credit for getting Breno to clean up his Forrest Gump PF's, though.

 

[plyka]

I'm happy to give Carpenter the benefit of the doubt as this is the first healthy offseason he'll have had since being drafted - one of the things everybody said about him coming out was that his "athleticism" was great - evidently something we haven't seen much of, but hopefully with a full season under his belt and a full offseason, we might begin to see that athleticism re-emerge.

Paradoxically, I think they saw Carpenter as a "safe" pick. Someone they thought they could count on to fill a void on the offensive line with steady, if unspectacular, play.

If Alvin Bailey is allowed to seriously compete at that left guard spot, I don't see how Carpenter will fend him off this year. The coaches have talked about using Bailey at tackle to begin with and then gradually moving him inside as he improves as a run blocker. He's just such a superior athlete in comparison to Carpenter.

Carpenter's 40: 5.22
Bailey's 40: 4.90

Carpenter's 10-yard split: 1.81
Bailey's 10-yard split: 1.72

Carpenter's 3-cone: 7.56
Bailey's 3-cone: 7.50

Carpenter's short shuttle: 4.75
Bailey's short shuttle: 4.69

Carpenter's bench press reps: 23
Bailey's bench press reps: 27

Also, Bailey is an inch shorter, but his arms are 3/4'' longer. Bailey, as an undrafted free agent signing, is everything they hoped Carpenter would become as a First Round pick.

Which begs the question, why the hell did they pick Carp with the 1st round pick? I've always thought this, but the only position where you need to spend high draft capital on (on the oline of course) is the LT position. Every other position you can get talent deep in the draft, including RT. Bailey and Bowie, not to mention Sweezy are evidence of this.