How are we going to avoid another OL dumpster fire?

[theincrediblesok]

On the cheap, Breno makes sense, Fant and Gilliam will have to battle it out on the Left side. I think our line will be much better this season, I mean it can't get any worse.

 

[Seymour]

...So leaving a system is a cure for being injury prone? Okung was always average to above average as a player in Seattle....when he was healthy. Other than playing all 16 games this year, Okung probably had his worst season as a pro on tape. Most Bronco fans would tell you he was a pretty big disappointment.

As far as Breno, again....he was also good when he was here. So him going somewhere else and playing good there should not be a surprise to anyone.

Absolutely! The ZBS we use is brutal on the Olinemen. It's a proven fact and we see this all the time. Pretty sure Unger and Carpenter played all 16 games this year as well.

 

[pcbball12]

...So leaving a system is a cure for being injury prone? Okung was always average to above average as a player in Seattle....when he was healthy. Other than playing all 16 games this year, Okung probably had his worst season as a pro on tape. Most Bronco fans would tell you he was a pretty big disappointment.

As far as Breno, again....he was also good when he was here. So him going somewhere else and playing good there should not be a surprise to anyone.

Absolutely! The ZBS we use is brutal on the Olinemen. It's a proven fact and we see this all the time. Pretty sure Unger and Carpenter played all 16 games this year as well.

I'm sorry, I cannot agree with this. Especially being stated as a proven fact. If anything, there is more downhill/aggressive contact in a power blocking scheme. So, injuries to me are a fluke type of thing.

 

[Seymour]

...I'm sorry, I cannot agree with this. Especially being stated as a proven fact. If anything, there is more downhill/aggressive contact in a power blocking scheme. So, injuries to me are a fluke type of thing.

It's not just my opinion. BTW Unger has now missed just 1 game in 2 years!

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/6/27/12023086/seahawks-offensive-line-tom-cable-hot-seat

Intrigue is amplified by the fact that Carpenter started all 16 games at left guard for the Jets in 2015. This reveals that Seattle’s scheme leads to linemen being more oft-injured than on other teams. This theory is supported when looking at Unger’s departure to New Orleans in 2015. Unger started all 16 games in 2012 but had never played another full season while Tom Cable was his offensive line coach. Immediately upon leaving Seattle, he started all 16 games for the Saints.

This trend moves the concern towards whether or not Cable’s scheme asks too much of linemen. We all know that Tom loves brutes; guys that are willing to get into a dogfight on the field to get that one extra inch. I love that intensity and punishing mantra as well, but at the cost of offensive line continuity, is it really worth it?

 

[sondevil89]

First of all, you have to have someone who can actually evaluate talent, someone we clearly do not have right now. Those two vets we brought in last year were not just veterans, they were already retired!

I know for a fact we coveted Alex Mack but didn't have the money to get the deal done. Something Pete actually confirmed at the end of our season. He's pretty talented yeah?

Sowell and Webb were absolutely terrible signings, but they were also what you expect to get for that salary. OL is a premium position.. you're not getting a really good player for cheap very often.

One intriguing option I could see us entertain is kicking Ifedi over to RT and signing a G in FA. There are much better options in FA at the guard position than there are at tackle. Unless Matt Kalil tickles your fancy.

Thank you, I've always thought that Ifedi should have been at OT. As for those other two, actually I was referring to the other one, (can't remember his name, Evans?) but yeah, you can throw Sowell in there too. Were those guys better than nothing? No.

One of the big reasons that OT's are such a premium is because there aren't any. With so many college programs playing the spread there's not that many college teams running pro-style offenses (Alabama. Huskies, USC, Ohio St. Etc.)

I started a thread last week that said all this team needs are two competent offensive tackles and we are a completely different team. I really believe that.

 

[pcbball12]

...I'm sorry, I cannot agree with this. Especially being stated as a proven fact. If anything, there is more downhill/aggressive contact in a power blocking scheme. So, injuries to me are a fluke type of thing.

It's not just my opinion. BTW Unger has now missed just 1 game in 2 years!

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/6/27/12023086/seahawks-offensive-line-tom-cable-hot-seat

Intrigue is amplified by the fact that Carpenter started all 16 games at left guard for the Jets in 2015. This reveals that Seattle’s scheme leads to linemen being more oft-injured than on other teams. This theory is supported when looking at Unger’s departure to New Orleans in 2015. Unger started all 16 games in 2012 but had never played another full season while Tom Cable was his offensive line coach. Immediately upon leaving Seattle, he started all 16 games for the Saints.

This trend moves the concern towards whether or not Cable’s scheme asks too much of linemen. We all know that Tom loves brutes; guys that are willing to get into a dogfight on the field to get that one extra inch. I love that intensity and punishing mantra as well, but at the cost of offensive line continuity, is it really worth it?

Ok, so it is your opinion and a writer on Field Gulls opinion....not fact. To me, injuries are just a fluky thing that happens. Because a guy gets rolled up on flukily by a D-Lineman has absolutely nothing to due with what scheme they are running. And because Okung and Unger had a few healthier seasons after leaving does not lead me to believe they got healthy because of scheme, more so due to good fortune.

 

[Seymour]

...Ok, so it is your opinion and a writer on Field Gulls opinion....not fact. To me, injuries are just a fluky thing that happens. Because a guy gets rolled up on flukily by a D-Lineman has absolutely nothing to due with what scheme they are running. And because Okung and Unger had a few healthier seasons after leaving does not lead me to believe they got healthy because of scheme, more so due to good fortune.

You left out Carpenter. In 4 years here, 1 season at 16 games. Made all 32 games in 2 years after leaving. There are too many to blow off as flukes. The angled blocking scheme, being taught to dive at players, poor reactions to stunts ect ect all add into it. Believe what you want.

 

[scutterhawk]

Tackles on both sides. I would suppose if nothing happens in the draft or F.A. they stand pat or try a trade.

Maybe Fant improves? after all, he was thrown to the wolves with no experience and actually did well if you take that into consideration. For Gilliam, I don't know of any excuses for his play, he's GOT experience.

If Gilliam whiffs a few times per game, Fant is going to continue with his struggles to show a lot of growth.
Ifedi has some of the same challenges whenever the RT screws up some of his blocking assignments....Aaron Donald was blowing up the confidences of the Rook.
Maybe now that they have a bit of hard nosed trial by fire, and some off season to clean up on their mistakes and get their shit together, maybe they take it to the next level.
I do agree that the Tackles (especially RT) need some big time upgrading.
On a parallel, isn't it ironic and funny how many in here are calling for Bevell's head, for not being able to draw up plays that this floundering Offensive Line CANNOT execute? :stirthepot:

 

[Seymour]

.....On a parallel, isn't it ironic and funny how many in here are calling for Bevell's head, for not being able to draw up plays that this floundering Offensive Line CANNOT execute? :stirthepot:

I'm no Bevell fan but personally I think Cable is the bigger problem. With a decent oline Bevell can work his way back up to mediocre. :mrgreen:

 

[sdog1981]

Pete and John have drafted 13 linemen since they have been here. 12 of them under Cable. In fact, the first draft is one of the only drafts were the linemen picked stayed with the position he was drafted to play.

I am done with Cable he is a specialist in failure.

 

[Josea16]

Tackles on both sides. I would suppose if nothing happens in the draft or F.A. they stand pat or try a trade.

Maybe Fant improves? after all, he was thrown to the wolves with no experience and actually did well if you take that into consideration. For Gilliam, I don't know of any excuses for his play, he's GOT experience.

If Gilliam whiffs a few times per game, Fant is going to continue with his struggles to show a lot of growth.
Ifedi has some of the same challenges whenever the RT screws up some of his blocking assignments....Aaron Donald was blowing up the confidences of the Rook.
Maybe now that they have a bit of hard nosed trial by fire, and some off season to clean up on their mistakes and get their shit together, maybe they take it to the next level.
I do agree that the Tackles (especially RT) need some big time upgrading.
On a parallel, isn't it ironic and funny how many in here are calling for Bevell's head, for not being able to draw up plays that this floundering Offensive Line CANNOT execute? :stirthepot:

Not me, Cable is the issue he's the one teaching this terrible scheme, picking the players, switching them around every other game. You have a crap OL it doesn't matter who you have at your skill positions or what OC you have calling the plays. Diving at the DL's knees? Of course you're likely to get rolled up on more often. It isn't rocket science here.

 

[pcbball12]

...Ok, so it is your opinion and a writer on Field Gulls opinion....not fact. To me, injuries are just a fluky thing that happens. Because a guy gets rolled up on flukily by a D-Lineman has absolutely nothing to due with what scheme they are running. And because Okung and Unger had a few healthier seasons after leaving does not lead me to believe they got healthy because of scheme, more so due to good fortune.

You left out Carpenter. In 4 years here, 1 season at 16 games. Made all 32 games in 2 years after leaving. There are too many to blow off as flukes. The angled blocking scheme, being taught to dive at players, poor reactions to stunts ect ect all add into it. Believe what you want.

And you left out plenty of OL that have played all 16 games here and have not had injury problems. Angled blocking? You mean a reach block, which is performed in every scheme? The cut block is something that takes place right off the snap and is more of a cause of injury to a defender, and I challenge you to show me any of the players you mention being hurt by performing a cut block. It is fine, you can believe your theory. I am just not buying it.

 

[sondevil89]

We all know the definition of insanity and going with what we had this year is exactly what that is. There are 1st round quality OL in the draft, if either one is there we take 'em but I really like Ramczyk better because he's further along in pass blocking. Then we need to find a good on in FA. You say that they'll be too expensive? Bullshit, spend the g-damned money, it's that important.

Yes, there are other concerns but fixing the tackle position is the clearest path back to the dance. We really need to exploit this offense that has SO much potential that hasn't been tapped yet. Look what we have coming back next year:

QB: elite

WR's: elite (as a group they have really come into their own, bigger role for P-Rich)

TE: elite

RB: very good w/Rawls and C.J. (didn't realize he was that big 220lbs)

Why can't this offense be elite? It's only the tackles that are holding it back. Spend the freaking money!

 

[RussB]

Well whitworth is a free agent and would be a huge plus even though he is getting older. Or they can trade for joe thomas but i doubt that.

If they dont get either of those guys , then they can get remmers in FA he should atleast be better than gilliam.Something tells me they wont do jack shit though and the o line will continue to suck ass and wilson will keep looking like a crash test dummy behind it.

 

[Anthony!]

oh they are going to do something, get more people on defense. Thats all folks. And if by some strange change in reality they do get some oline help it will be run blockers, the fact our best offensive player is our QB not RB will not matter, the fact if we lose our QB we are done will not matter. Hope I am wrong but that is the sense I am getting. PC wants that #1 defense, and top 3 run game again. The idea of building around your best players who is your QB and receiving threats is alien to him. At least based on his history and what he has said. Maybe he will surprise me I hope so, but you know the old saying "you can teach an old dog new tricks".

 

[AgentDib]

Okung actually committed a whopping 11 penalties this season in Denver and played well below his $5.2m 2016 cap number. Denver may try to renegotiate simply because their other options are pretty meager, but even if he becomes a FA it's not a guarantee that he'll be worth even a $5m figure.

My guess is that they're going to look everything over and decide that Fant (540k), Odhiambo (714k), a day 2 rookie (600k), and a UDFA (450k) can provide good competition at Tackle with great value and then supplement with a cheap veteran (1-3m) that falls through the first two stages of FA.

Fans won't like it but the few solid tackles available in FA look like they'll be able to get much more than their value this year. If we do end up with a tackle on the first day then the Wisconsin tackle Ramcyzk? may worth a look. He's reportedly an excellent run blocker, may slip due to limited experience and a hip injury, and we have good connections with Wisconsin that may help us to pull the trigger on a player who's more of an unknown.

One intriguing option I could see us entertain is kicking Ifedi over to RT...

That was the plan if things went well but I'm skeptical Ifedi will be ready for that in 2017 short of a tremendous off-season. I'd be more comfortable sticking with continuity inside and then added competition to RT via a cheap veteran FA or the draft.

 

[Anthony!]

Okung actually committed a whopping 11 penalties this season in Denver and played well below his $5.2m 2016 cap number. Denver may try to renegotiate simply because their other options are pretty meager, but even if he becomes a FA it's not a guarantee that he'll be worth even a $5m figure.

My guess is that they're going to look everything over and decide that Fant (540k), Odhiambo (714k), a day 2 rookie (600k), and a UDFA (450k) can provide good competition at Tackle with great value and then supplement with a cheap veteran (1-3m) that falls through the first two stages of FA.

Fans won't like it but the few solid tackles available in FA look like they'll be able to get much more than their value this year. If we do end up with a tackle on the first day then the Wisconsin tackle Ramcyzk? may worth a look. He's reportedly an excellent run blocker, may slip due to limited experience and a hip injury, and we have good connections with Wisconsin that may help us to pull the trigger on a player who's more of an unknown.

One intriguing option I could see us entertain is kicking Ifedi over to RT...

That was the plan if things went well but I'm skeptical Ifedi will be ready for that in 2017 short of a tremendous off-season. I'd be more comfortable sticking with continuity inside and then added competition to RT via a cheap veteran FA or the draft.

LOL they keep saying continuity of players and positions with regards to the oline moving Ifedi to RT would not be keeping continuity, also that is not Rws blind side.

 

[Largent80]

I heard Clayton's idea of letting Odhiambo try RT or even LT. He was a rookie Swiss army knife last year, and did ok in limited action.

 

[blazen2392]

Honestly I say spend as much as you need to in the FA and get new Tackles. Draft one in the First round as well. We are bound to get lucky eventually and hit big on someone.

 

[nash72]

Why can't this offense be elite? It's only the tackles that are holding it back. Spend the freaking money!

We could have the greatest line in the world and our offense wouldnt be elite under Bevell and Pete. Its always going to be a 'What could have been' question.