How long

[KiwiHawk]

Everyone agrees we are hamstrung by our cap situation. But, we have dumped several huge contracts already. So, at what point do all these cuts translate into money to spend? How much do we have to save before we're able to go sign somebody?
I'm not looking for exact numbers, just a basic explanation of what seems basic.

People seem to want us to dump these players to free up cap space... And are vehemently against signing high priced Fa's or extending Earl, Brown, Clark.

We're dealing with a few factions.

Faction 1 says PC & JS are incompetent at FA signings so they shouldn't sign any high-priced free agents.

Faction 2 says the sky is falling and this year is a complete write-off so we should save all our cap space for next year.

Faction 3 says it's now x days into free agency and we haven't signed anyone! Fire JS!

Factions 4 - 6 are debating whether this is a rebuild, reload, or just modern-NFL player turnover.

Faction 7 says we should trade Wilson for draft picks.

Faction 8 says we suck at drafting.

Faction 9 says we suck at trading.

Faction 10 says invest the remaining cap space in Bitcoin.

So pick whichever you like and join in the chorus.

 

[semiahmoo]

How long do you think Pete & John will take to get back to dominance? Pete cleaned house when he first came in and it took 4 years. He has more pieces now (even with everything going on) including a great QB. Plus his culture is already in place. How long do you think it will take. Or do you think it is over for John and Pete?

Pete's one more season and done here in Seattle. He's transitional at best unless some miracle of miracles is pulled off and he makes another SB appearance. (I'm all for that!)

Reality/odds say this upcoming season is it for him.

 

[mrblitz]

2 guys we really miss are golden tate and brandon browner. haven't been the same without that 'physicality on the perimeter'... need some enforcers at cb and wr... become more physical like that, with a good running game on offense and a solid d-line rotation on d, and seahawks are back in the mix. overall, they need to get faster on d, too... it were noticeable in the playoffs, how much faster defensive units like jax and philly are...

just plug some of those holes, and we're back...

 

[GeekHawk]

Holy shit people.

We get a new O-line coach who doesn't have all 5 linemen throw themselves at the knees of the D-line and all miss (and end up laying helplessly on the ground), we get a new OC who doesn't have every third pass play designed to have 2 receivers and 3 d-backs at the same place in the field when the ball comes down, and we trade away a D-lineman who lead the league if giving away free yards on stupid offsides penalties, and you think we're magically going to win 1 game next year. Oh, and we got rid of the kicker who singlehandedly lost at least 2 or maybe 3 games last year.

 

[AF_BASS_MAN]

How long?......2018 is going to be pathetic, and hopefully 2019 is less pathetic.

Right now we are not a great team. We weren’t in 2017, and we only got worse so far this off-season.

What we are going through is exactly what we all knew would happen eventually but we didn’t care at the time because we were feared in the league, had a guaranteed 8 wins a year at home, and a dominant defense that bullied opposing offenses. We are now suffering from the fact that we have/had zero cap space, gave up WAY TOO MUCH in trades (Harvin, etc.), and a stubborn HC that was more concerned with keeping the band together hoping lighting would strike twice than continuing to evaluate talent. This further proves to me that Pete wasn’t really “coaching” anybody these last few years. It’s clear that the inflated personalities on this team were running everything while PC was more of a baby sitter.

This FA period is evident of how the message from PC got old and now the core of the players who were the dominating force on this team in our hay day are leaving. They know that this thing is over as well.

Honestly we were a disappointment. Yes we won a SB, but we should have won more than one with the roster we had. JS and PC were in a win now mode and gave the farm away for players to help us do just that. Now as a result we are seeing the adverse side effect of not having what we gave away for those players. We weren’t able to continue to add a CHEAP rookie core group through the draft to help this thing keep going.

It’s going to get a lot worse, before it gets better.

 

[Seymour]

How long?......2018 is going to be pathetic, and hopefully 2019 is less pathetic.

Right now we are not a great team. We weren’t in 2017, and we only got worse so far this off-season.

What we are going through is exactly what we all knew would happen eventually but we didn’t care at the time because we were feared in the league, had a guaranteed 8 wins a year at home, and a dominant defense that bullied opposing offenses. We are now suffering from the fact that we have/had zero cap space, gave up WAY TOO MUCH in trades (Harvin, etc.), and a stubborn HC that was more concerned with keeping the band together hoping lighting would strike twice than continuing to evaluate talent. This further proves to me that Pete wasn’t really “coaching” anybody these last few years. It’s clear that the inflated personalities on this team were running everything while PC was more of a baby sitter.

This FA period is evident of how the message from PC got old and now the core of the players who were the dominating force on this team in our hay day are leaving. They know that this thing is over as well.

Honestly we were a disappointment. Yes we won a SB, but we should have won more than one with the roster we had. JS and PC were in a win now mode and gave the farm away for players to help us do just that. Now as a result we are seeing the adverse side effect of not having what we gave away for those players. We weren’t able to continue to add a CHEAP rookie core group through the draft to help this thing keep going.

It’s going to get a lot worse, before it gets better.

Sherman just did an interview with Joe Thomas yesterday and revealed exactly that. Said the team lost their way with draft and talent evaluation. Said that the core guys that have been there have all heard the stories so many times that they could recite the next sentence. Said that Pete's game was built for players that refresh and move on within a 4 year period (college coach).
Pretty much what many people worried about when we hired Pete, that the rah rah would wear off, and he'd lose his edge.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Sherman just did an interview with Joe Thomas yesterday and revealed exactly that. Said the team lost their way with draft and talent evaluation. Said that the core guys that have been there have all heard the stories so many times that they could recite the next sentence. Said that Pete's game was built for players that refresh and move on within a 4 year period (college coach).
Pretty much what many people worried about when we hired Pete, that the rah rah would wear off, and he'd lose his edge.

Yes but to be completely fair ... same thing can be said of the harded nose approach as well (Belichick ... and of course guys like Bill Parcells before that). As noted many times by others, the Patriots have reloaded many times before.

I think that what you're seeing with the Seahawks right now ... is the same thing that you see with ALL NFL teams. It doesn't matter WHO you are or what your particular approach is. Success is only sustainable with the same group of players for only so long. After awhile, age ... injuries ... contracts ... and egos end up getting in the way. Why do you think coaches get fired so often? It's because guys can only hear the same thing so much before they start to tune out. So, you either:

A) Replace the Players

B) Replace the Coaching Staff

C) A Combo of Both.

I just see what's happening with the Hawks right now as being par for the course. This is just the way it is with Professional Sports in general. Period.

 

[Seymour]

Sherman just did an interview with Joe Thomas yesterday and revealed exactly that. Said the team lost their way with draft and talent evaluation. Said that the core guys that have been there have all heard the stories so many times that they could recite the next sentence. Said that Pete's game was built for players that refresh and move on within a 4 year period (college coach).
Pretty much what many people worried about when we hired Pete, that the rah rah would wear off, and he'd lose his edge.

Yes but to be completely fair ... same thing can be said of the harded nose approach as well (Belichick ... and of course guys like Bill Parcells before that). As noted many times by others, the Patriots have reloaded many times before.

I think that what you're seeing with the Seahawks right now ... is the same thing that you see with ALL NFL teams. It doesn't matter WHO you are or what your particular approach is. Success is only sustainable with the same group of players for only so long. After awhile, age ... injuries ... contracts ... and egos end up getting in the way. Why do you think coaches get fired so often? It's because guys can only hear the same thing so much before they start to tune out. So, you either:

A) Replace the Players

B) Replace the Coaching Staff

C) A Combo of Both.

I just see what's happening with the Hawks right now as being par for the course. This is just the way it is with Professional Sports in general. Period.

Not with losing their way with the draft and talent evaluation part. That is on Pete and staff...and THAT is why the core cannot be replaced / refreshed without a period of fielding a considerably worse team. It is the core problem that has made us lose so much draft capitol on the oline and RB positions that started this situation to begin with. The message is subject to getting stale when you are forcing the same players back year after year. In Bennetts case you are actually having to rely on him to play even more snaps.

 

[Uncle Si]

How long?......2018 is going to be pathetic, and hopefully 2019 is less pathetic.

Right now we are not a great team. We weren’t in 2017, and we only got worse so far this off-season.

What we are going through is exactly what we all knew would happen eventually but we didn’t care at the time because we were feared in the league, had a guaranteed 8 wins a year at home, and a dominant defense that bullied opposing offenses. We are now suffering from the fact that we have/had zero cap space, gave up WAY TOO MUCH in trades (Harvin, etc.), and a stubborn HC that was more concerned with keeping the band together hoping lighting would strike twice than continuing to evaluate talent. This further proves to me that Pete wasn’t really “coaching” anybody these last few years. It’s clear that the inflated personalities on this team were running everything while PC was more of a baby sitter.

This FA period is evident of how the message from PC got old and now the core of the players who were the dominating force on this team in our hay day are leaving. They know that this thing is over as well.

Honestly we were a disappointment. Yes we won a SB, but we should have won more than one with the roster we had. JS and PC were in a win now mode and gave the farm away for players to help us do just that. Now as a result we are seeing the adverse side effect of not having what we gave away for those players. We weren’t able to continue to add a CHEAP rookie core group through the draft to help this thing keep going.

It’s going to get a lot worse, before it gets better.

Sherman just did an interview with Joe Thomas yesterday and revealed exactly that. Said the team lost their way with draft and talent evaluation. Said that the core guys that have been there have all heard the stories so many times that they could recite the next sentence. Said that Pete's game was built for players that refresh and move on within a 4 year period (college coach).
Pretty much what many people worried about when we hired Pete, that the rah rah would wear off, and he'd lose his edge.

Doesn't that seem hypocritical from Sherman though?

He's saying "Hey, PC's message is great until you hear it too many times"

So PC moves these guys on to refresh the talent and guys who will buy back into it.

It's the players that lost the edge, not the coach. Odd that someone like Sherman can't connect those dots.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Sherman just did an interview with Joe Thomas yesterday and revealed exactly that. Said the team lost their way with draft and talent evaluation. Said that the core guys that have been there have all heard the stories so many times that they could recite the next sentence. Said that Pete's game was built for players that refresh and move on within a 4 year period (college coach).
Pretty much what many people worried about when we hired Pete, that the rah rah would wear off, and he'd lose his edge.

Yes but to be completely fair ... same thing can be said of the harded nose approach as well (Belichick ... and of course guys like Bill Parcells before that). As noted many times by others, the Patriots have reloaded many times before.

I think that what you're seeing with the Seahawks right now ... is the same thing that you see with ALL NFL teams. It doesn't matter WHO you are or what your particular approach is. Success is only sustainable with the same group of players for only so long. After awhile, age ... injuries ... contracts ... and egos end up getting in the way. Why do you think coaches get fired so often? It's because guys can only hear the same thing so much before they start to tune out. So, you either:

A) Replace the Players

B) Replace the Coaching Staff

C) A Combo of Both.

I just see what's happening with the Hawks right now as being par for the course. This is just the way it is with Professional Sports in general. Period.

Not with losing their way with the draft and talent evaluation part. That is on Pete and staff...and THAT is why the core cannot be replaced / refreshed without a period of fielding a considerably worse team. It is the core problem that has made us lose so much draft capitol on the oline and RB positions that started this situation to begin with. The message is subject to getting stale when you are forcing the same players back year after year. In Bennetts case you are actually having to rely on him to play even more snaps.

Yes -- granted. A lot of our current situation stems from talent evaluation and not really hitting in the draft like we did in past years. Our current lack of draft capitol is a big issue. I won't argue that whatsoever. That is spot on.

NOW ... what do you do about that moving forward? That's a great question. Personally, I think that leads right back around to the current debate surrounding Earl Thomas. I hate to say it, but he's the biggest poker chip that we have right now. You don't GIVE him away by any means. BUT ... given age, past injury situation, and contract status ... you absolutely DO dangle him out there in trade talks (which is obviously what's happening). I know it's asking for the moon (and it may turn out to be unrealistic in the end) but if the Hawks can actually get a 1st and a 3rd back for him ... I'd say you do that in a heartbeat. Have to. If you're going to re-boot/rebuild -- go all the way. I know what I'm saying. I LOVE Earl. He is the straw that stirs the drink on that secondary. But, I think you have to consider dealing with him if the price is right. Just my .02.

 

[bbsplitter]

We have Wilson.

We have Wagner.

We have Baldwin.

KJ.

(For now) Earl Thomas.

That's worth something. I can't say we will be world beaters but I know the team with at least be competitive and make a run for the playoffs.

 

[Seymour]

Sherman just did an interview with Joe Thomas yesterday and revealed exactly that. Said the team lost their way with draft and talent evaluation. Said that the core guys that have been there have all heard the stories so many times that they could recite the next sentence. Said that Pete's game was built for players that refresh and move on within a 4 year period (college coach).
Pretty much what many people worried about when we hired Pete, that the rah rah would wear off, and he'd lose his edge.

Yes but to be completely fair ... same thing can be said of the harded nose approach as well (Belichick ... and of course guys like Bill Parcells before that). As noted many times by others, the Patriots have reloaded many times before.

I think that what you're seeing with the Seahawks right now ... is the same thing that you see with ALL NFL teams. It doesn't matter WHO you are or what your particular approach is. Success is only sustainable with the same group of players for only so long. After awhile, age ... injuries ... contracts ... and egos end up getting in the way. Why do you think coaches get fired so often? It's because guys can only hear the same thing so much before they start to tune out. So, you either:

A) Replace the Players

B) Replace the Coaching Staff

C) A Combo of Both.

I just see what's happening with the Hawks right now as being par for the course. This is just the way it is with Professional Sports in general. Period.

Not with losing their way with the draft and talent evaluation part. That is on Pete and staff...and THAT is why the core cannot be replaced / refreshed without a period of fielding a considerably worse team. It is the core problem that has made us lose so much draft capitol on the oline and RB positions that started this situation to begin with. The message is subject to getting stale when you are forcing the same players back year after year. In Bennetts case you are actually having to rely on him to play even more snaps.

Yes -- granted. A lot of our current situation stems from talent evaluation and not really hitting in the draft like we did in past years. Our current lack of draft capitol is a big issue. I won't argue that whatsoever. That is spot on.

NOW ... what do you do about that moving forward? That's a great question. Personally, I think that leads right back around to the current debate surrounding Earl Thomas. I hate to say it, but he's the biggest poker chip that we have right now. You don't GIVE him away by any means. BUT ... given age, past injury situation, and contract status ... you absolutely DO dangle him out there in trade talks (which is obviously what's happening). I know it's asking for the moon (and it may turn out to be unrealistic in the end) but if the Hawks can actually get a 1st and a 3rd back for him ... I'd say you do that in a heartbeat. Have to. If you're going to re-boot/rebuild -- go all the way. I know what I'm saying. I LOVE Earl. He is the straw that stirs the drink on that secondary. But, I think you have to consider dealing with him if the price is right. Just my .02.

Completely agree on Earl. My dilemma with getting rid of Earl is based on the poor early round draft decisions we've made in the recent past. What good is a 1st or high 2nd round pick if you just turn around and blow it on the McDowell's, Ifedi's, Michael's, Carpenter's of the world? This is why I don't think Pete gets back to "dominance".
But you are right....we gotta try.

 

[HawkerD]

NEVER EVER Again!. These guys made a deal with the devil or purchased a winning lottery ticket in 2012. In other words it was luck that they stumbled onto low draft picks a few FA's with a high upside. As the drafts over the past four years show, they are below average talent evaluators (coaches and players). Pete is not an X's and O's guy and depended on a few extraordinary plays to get to and win a super bowl. The playoff loss to the Falcons in 2012 and the SB49 debacle showed his inability to coach in the moment when it was required.

PC is a good coach but nothing special. He is a great motivator of young players but not so much with veterans. In all other aspects he is no better than average. JS had a great start but has sputtered. He will get more opportunities but only time will tell if he ever again catches lightning in a bottle.