Husky Basketball

[Crizilla]

i basically said the same exact thing on the previous page but with even more anger. But yeah, romar has gotta go. He doesn't care about defense at all. The only thing floating around in his head is SCORE SCORE SCORE FAST.

 

[TwistedHusky]

At first, I was confused by the fact that there was no thread really on the game.

Given, Seahawk board but still NW sports fans. I see Husky threads in the reg season and I see coverage of Duck and other games. Then I realized, it isn't that people don't care. They just don't expect anything. So why bother?

This is why the handwringing over whether Cris stays or Dejounte stays is funny. Because it doesn't matter. If they stay, we get a few more exciting games - but we have seen over time that teams with 3-4 NBA players on them (which is rare even in good college programs) likely won't even make the tournament. If they do, the best of his best teams - teams where at least 2 guys have made NBA All star teams, don't get out of the Sweet 16.

So if everyone stays why would anyone expect anything to be different?

If the best players stay, we will just be a more dangerous team in the NIT that ultimately still won't even win THAT. Because Romar doesn't win, he just creates flashy teams that look like they will win more in the future. But they never do because they are fundamentally flawed, their coach doesn't prepare them correctly.

So, while I feel bad for the kid that is coming here as a 5 star recruit - and I know I will enjoy watching him play, it won't matter. Even adding him to the pot with the other very talented players if they all stay is not going to change the reality that you cannot expect Romar teams to win anything substantial. His teams are for entertainment, not accomplishment.

The question will be, is it better to get better quality athletes and do little with them? Or get a coach that gets far less quality players (since Romar clearly excels at getting guys that most coaches cannot) that accomplishes more with them and the team?

For now, it is clear the program does not mind losing if there is some cool dunking in the games. I don't see that changing in the future anyway.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

After all the crap that Husky fans on these boards gave Gonzaga it's REALLY difficult for me not to chime in on this thread with a hearty "Go Zags!" so I won't fight the urge any longer.
8)

 

[JSeahawks]

Husky ladies (4 pac12 teams total) in the sweet 16.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

At first, I was confused by the fact that there was no thread really on the game.

Given, Seahawk board but still NW sports fans. I see Husky threads in the reg season and I see coverage of Duck and other games. Then I realized, it isn't that people don't care. They just don't expect anything. So why bother?

This is why the handwringing over whether Cris stays or Dejounte stays is funny. Because it doesn't matter. If they stay, we get a few more exciting games - but we have seen over time that teams with 3-4 NBA players on them (which is rare even in good college programs) likely won't even make the tournament. If they do, the best of his best teams - teams where at least 2 guys have made NBA All star teams, don't get out of the Sweet 16.

So if everyone stays why would anyone expect anything to be different?

If the best players stay, we will just be a more dangerous team in the NIT that ultimately still won't even win THAT. Because Romar doesn't win, he just creates flashy teams that look like they will win more in the future. But they never do because they are fundamentally flawed, their coach doesn't prepare them correctly.

So, while I feel bad for the kid that is coming here as a 5 star recruit - and I know I will enjoy watching him play, it won't matter. Even adding him to the pot with the other very talented players if they all stay is not going to change the reality that you cannot expect Romar teams to win anything substantial. His teams are for entertainment, not accomplishment.

The question will be, is it better to get better quality athletes and do little with them? Or get a coach that gets far less quality players (since Romar clearly excels at getting guys that most coaches cannot) that accomplishes more with them and the team?

For now, it is clear the program does not mind losing if there is some cool dunking in the games. I don't see that changing in the future anyway.

I disagree with almost everything you said in your first few paragraphs. There are a lot of programs that have never won a national championship or even gotten to a final 4 with a lot of talent. I mean, why do the Mariners even bother? They have Felix Hernandez and Robinson Cano and have never even made the World Series? Why even try? Up until a few years ago, the Seahawks never even came close to sniffing the SuperBowl, so why even try? Of course it matters if two future NBA players come back next year. Realistically I doubt we make the final 4 with them, but adding them could be the difference between us winning a Pac12 title and reaching the Sweet 16 or Elite 8.

I agree that Romar isn't the greatest coach, but if it weren't for him, we wouldn't even have these NBA players in the first place. To be honest, we wouldn't even be talking about Husky basketball if it weren't for Romar. People forget that Washington Basketball was one of the worst hoops programs in the country before he came here.

 

[TwistedHusky]

A few things....

The intent of the 'rant' (if you want to call it that), is not to say 'why bother?" but instead to say, that the question will not matter because we pretty much know the result. The Husky program travels comfortably in the 'mediocre' space.

(It is really interesting you compared them to the Mariners, because that is the perfect comparison.

A team that historically never did anything, so uses that as justification for never doing anything now. The Mariners have had to change this tactic lately because so many former fans just gave up on expecting anything from them, and there is a very short jump from no expections to not caring at all.

I quit watching the Mariners a decade ago, as a for example - and I was a huge Mariners fan as a kid).

In years that not much is expected, the Huskies do a little bit better than expected because one or two extremely talented players tends to outplay expectations, or produces better in a shorter time frame. In years they seemingly have all the pieces? They tend to underwhelm, because while there will be guys that are tremendous offensive weapons - they tend to have holes in their game and tend to not get better.

So if Dejounte and Chriss don't come back? We probably still make the NIT. If they do? We probably still make the NIT. Even then, I don't think we win it. If we make the NCAA? Maybe we luck into the 16, but Romar already had a team of 3-4 NBA players on it....at least 3x! And he failed to do much at all with them, his biggest accomplishment being a win over a pretty good Illinois team that had almost no serviceable NBA players on it at all.

It is also interesting that our neighbor to the South (Oregon) fired their coach, who had accomplished more than Romar - and replaced him with a guy that is clearly tiers better than Romar since then. Was Oregon some basketball powerhouse? No. You get to be a basketball powerhouse BECAUSE you have a good coach, not before.

So therefore, if you want the program to no longer be a weak basketball program that doesn't matter and historically never had success? Then you have to get a good coach. That, by the way, is how the Seahawks fixed their never historically being a winner.

You don't get better by keeping your maddeningly mediocre coach and crossing your fingers. Every team has guys leave early, or get injured, or otherwise get removed at some point. Some of them still win. We continually reload, misfire, make excuses and then expect things to change once we reload again. It won't. Terrance Ross, Wroten, Roy, Thomas, and all the rest can give you a good indication of what to expect when great players come through here.

BTW As for not trying, the Mariners never try - they only want to look like they are. Maybe that changed in the past decade, but I know people who were told by the FO that the organization would prefer to avoid the playoffs but for the minimum it needs to get top 10 attendance. Since the Mariners have some of the people still there making decisions from that point 10 years ago? I doubt that has changed much.

 

[Tical21]

FWIW, now that they have advanced, the vaunted Gonzaga Bulldogs have now been to one more Sweet 16 during the Romar era than the Huskies have. Want to talk overrated?

If those two players come back, there is zero chance we aren't in the top-25 throughout the season.

Besides the switching, which is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in basketball at any level, and very could well be a move that gets a college coach fired, he also didn't have any players this year, not one, that came in with a high defensive IQ. Even Dime is a trainwreck with this defensive fundamentals. The popular consensus with the guys that knew these kids was that they were going to be high flying and score a bunch of points, but they were going to mightily struggle defensively. Thybulle is the only one I think that has any kind of defensive mentality, and he's still just a freshman that hasn't gotten completely over the "timid freshman" mentality. He's going to be that Bobby Jones, Justin Holiday type. Probably not to that same level, as they were two of the better defenders I have ever seen on a college team, but you'll be able to put him on a good player and he'll compete. He's the only one I see though. The big New Zealand kid might help a lot too.

Romar is here for another year, unless the two players leave and Fultz decommits. Regardless, next year he needs to make the tournament or he's gone. Scary though. It isn't like we're going to get a big name coach to come here. Getting rid of Romar will be an absolute disaster if we don't identify the right guy. At least we're mediocre and have a shot to make the tournament most years. That is far better than it has been here in a long, long time.

 

[Chapow]

Husky ladies (4 pac12 teams total) in the sweet 16.

Yep, and got there by beating a 30-3 Maryland team @ Maryland that has been a juggernaut for the past few years. I caught the second half of the game and it was really cool and exciting watching them pull off what was a pretty huge upset. Kelsey Plum is a very, very good player and will have a successful professional career if she chooses to go that route.

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-baske ... -terrapins

Thought about starting a thread about this after the game, but figured no one would care.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

FWIW, now that they have advanced, the vaunted Gonzaga Bulldogs have now been to one more Sweet 16 during the Romar era than the Huskies have. Want to talk overrated?

If those two players come back, there is zero chance we aren't in the top-25 throughout the season.

Besides the switching, which is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in basketball at any level, and very could well be a move that gets a college coach fired, he also didn't have any players this year, not one, that came in with a high defensive IQ. Even Dime is a trainwreck with this defensive fundamentals. The popular consensus with the guys that knew these kids was that they were going to be high flying and score a bunch of points, but they were going to mightily struggle defensively. Thybulle is the only one I think that has any kind of defensive mentality, and he's still just a freshman that hasn't gotten completely over the "timid freshman" mentality. He's going to be that Bobby Jones, Justin Holiday type. Probably not to that same level, as they were two of the better defenders I have ever seen on a college team, but you'll be able to put him on a good player and he'll compete. He's the only one I see though. The big New Zealand kid might help a lot too.

Romar is here for another year, unless the two players leave and Fultz decommits. Regardless, next year he needs to make the tournament or he's gone. Scary though. It isn't like we're going to get a big name coach to come here. Getting rid of Romar will be an absolute disaster if we don't identify the right guy. At least we're mediocre and have a shot to make the tournament most years. That is far better than it has been here in a long, long time.

This guy gets it. You can't fire your coach after he lands the highest rated recruit in his tenure. Not to mention we just landed the best recruiting class we've pretty much ever had. Fire Romar tomorrow and a ton of kids transfer away, Fultz decommits and our program falls on its face. Next year will be big for Romar. If he doesn't produce then he is likely gone.

I understand the Romar haters. The problem is, the time to fire him was probably 2-3 years ago. He has gotten the program back on track IMO. Michael Porter who is considered a top 3 player in two years has a really close relationship with Romar, Romar is doing all he can to bring him in. If he gets Porter to sign, then he may save himself another year even if we flop next year. Bringing in Porter would basically be like bringing in Ben Simmons (even though Simmons somewhat flopped this year).

 

[Hawkfan77]

The second wave of recruiting just got more interesting with Murray and Chriss declaring for the draft. Argh, not too surprising but still disappointing. Just don't think either player is ready for the league.

 

[Chapow]

Very disappointing news. We had a chance to be very, very good next year. *sigh* Oh well...

 

[TwistedHusky]

It depends on what the purpose of the program is.

Is the goal of the program to primarily entertain, act as a branding resource to draw in 'normal' college students, and produce athletic achievements?

Or

Is the purpose to prepare athletes for life after college and to enrich the college experience for the athletes?

If the purpose is #1, yes you have to remove Romar. He doesn't produce, hasn't in almost a decade, and while able to get some of the star athletes, cannot keep them and so ends up producing at lower levels than if he had gotten lower quality talent in the first place.

I disagree that Washington cannot be successful. There is a massive resource of homegrown talent that he has been recruiting from, and a series of development programs that fill the pipeline for programs in the NW and across the country. We have the talent, but we don't have the coaching to take things to the next level. And after 15+ years? He clearly is what he is - an underachieving coach that does less with more but is tremendously likable.

Now, does he turn a blind eye to some of the things going on among the athletes that ultimately hurts the program once unearthed? Absolutely. I would also submit that the utter lack of discipline he requires of his athletes is part of the reason he has so many problems with defense, with players improving and with players coming in that have legal concerns. He lets them do what they want, but in so doing - they don't learn the skills you ostensibly are supposed to be teaching.

Not sure about being a Romar hater. I don't hate the guy. I just don't consider his results anything but mediocre. I don't buy that UW cannot be a good program though. Oregon wasn't historically a good program - and they got a good coach, now they are clearly better than us.

No star player is going to help this program get over the top because Romar cannot adequately mold the rest of the team to complement/complete the star. So having a star player makes you feel good when you follow him in the NBA, but Romar cannot and has not translated good recruiting into great results ever.

(And no, even with those players - we would never have been very very good. Because we still would have made the stupid mistakes that characterize a Romar team)

 

[JSeahawks]

As a Duck fan, just like Kiffin and Sark before, I hope that Romar is retained. Push the rebuilding process back one more year. I hope Romar gets a lifetime contract at UW.

If I were UW right now is the perfect time to let him go. Yea, it would probably mean losing Fultz, but honestly, who cares? He's only going to be there for one year anyway, and without Andrews, Murray and Chriss he's not taking the team anywhere. Replace Romar now, find the right coach and get the program going in the right direction as quickly as possible.

It sucks, because unlike Kiffin and Sark, from everything I've heard about Romar he seems like a really good dude. Other then his coaching abilities i've never heard a negative word about the guy. Even Duck fans acknowledge he's a good guy. But he's not getting the job done. With a new athletic director coming in he or she is going to want to bring in their own guy anyway.

 

[Tical21]

Oh burrito me sideways

 

[TwistedHusky]

PS Does it even matter if Chriss and Dejounte declared?

My understanding is that the entire Kentucky team declared. As long as they don't get an agent and the NBA does not give them a high grade - they likely are back.

Declaring does not mean they are gone, correct?

 

[JSeahawks]

FWIW, now that they have advanced, the vaunted Gonzaga Bulldogs have now been to one more Sweet 16 during the Romar era than the Huskies have. Want to talk overrated?

If those two players come back, there is zero chance we aren't in the top-25 throughout the season.

Besides the switching, which is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in basketball at any level, and very could well be a move that gets a college coach fired, he also didn't have any players this year, not one, that came in with a high defensive IQ. Even Dime is a trainwreck with this defensive fundamentals. The popular consensus with the guys that knew these kids was that they were going to be high flying and score a bunch of points, but they were going to mightily struggle defensively. Thybulle is the only one I think that has any kind of defensive mentality, and he's still just a freshman that hasn't gotten completely over the "timid freshman" mentality. He's going to be that Bobby Jones, Justin Holiday type. Probably not to that same level, as they were two of the better defenders I have ever seen on a college team, but you'll be able to put him on a good player and he'll compete. He's the only one I see though. The big New Zealand kid might help a lot too.

Romar is here for another year, unless the two players leave and Fultz decommits. Regardless, next year he needs to make the tournament or he's gone. Scary though. It isn't like we're going to get a big name coach to come here. Getting rid of Romar will be an absolute disaster if we don't identify the right guy. At least we're mediocre and have a shot to make the tournament most years. That is far better than it has been here in a long, long time.

This guy gets it. You can't fire your coach after he lands the highest rated recruit in his tenure. Not to mention we just landed the best recruiting class we've pretty much ever had. Fire Romar tomorrow and a ton of kids transfer away, Fultz decommits and our program falls on its face. Next year will be big for Romar. If he doesn't produce then he is likely gone.

I understand the Romar haters. The problem is, the time to fire him was probably 2-3 years ago. He has gotten the program back on track IMO. Michael Porter who is considered a top 3 player in two years has a really close relationship with Romar, Romar is doing all he can to bring him in. If he gets Porter to sign, then he may save himself another year even if we flop next year. Bringing in Porter would basically be like bringing in Ben Simmons (even though Simmons somewhat flopped this year).

See, I actually think this is the wrong approach to basketball recruiting unless you're a Kentucky, Duke or North Carolina who can just reload with 3 or 4 five stars every single year. In my opinion, if youre a program like Washington or Oregon or Gonzaga those one and done players are program killers, not program builders. I think UW should be looking for Andrew Andrews type players, not Ben Simmons type players. Find those 4 star kids that are good enough players to contribute big time in college and stick around for a few years, not those kids who are going to be here for a year and be gone before you even got to know them.

 

[JSeahawks]

PS Does it even matter if Chriss and Dejounte declared?

My understanding is that the entire Kentucky team declared. As long as they don't get an agent and the NBA does not give them a high grade - they likely are back.

Declaring does not mean they are gone, correct?

You are correct, but in this case they're both hiring agents. Which means they cannot return under any circumstance.

Washington freshmen Marquese Chriss and Dejounte Murray both declared for the NBA draft Wednesday and will hire agents, ending their college careers after one season and issuing a blow to the Huskies hopes of getting back to the NCAA Tournament next year.

http://wtop.com/nba/2016/03/washingtons ... nba-draft/

 

[CPHawk]

FWIW, now that they have advanced, the vaunted Gonzaga Bulldogs have now been to one more Sweet 16 during the Romar era than the Huskies have. Want to talk overrated?

If those two players come back, there is zero chance we aren't in the top-25 throughout the season.

Besides the switching, which is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in basketball at any level, and very could well be a move that gets a college coach fired, he also didn't have any players this year, not one, that came in with a high defensive IQ. Even Dime is a trainwreck with this defensive fundamentals. The popular consensus with the guys that knew these kids was that they were going to be high flying and score a bunch of points, but they were going to mightily struggle defensively. Thybulle is the only one I think that has any kind of defensive mentality, and he's still just a freshman that hasn't gotten completely over the "timid freshman" mentality. He's going to be that Bobby Jones, Justin Holiday type. Probably not to that same level, as they were two of the better defenders I have ever seen on a college team, but you'll be able to put him on a good player and he'll compete. He's the only one I see though. The big New Zealand kid might help a lot too.

Romar is here for another year, unless the two players leave and Fultz decommits. Regardless, next year he needs to make the tournament or he's gone. Scary though. It isn't like we're going to get a big name coach to come here. Getting rid of Romar will be an absolute disaster if we don't identify the right guy. At least we're mediocre and have a shot to make the tournament most years. That is far better than it has been here in a long, long time.

This guy gets it. You can't fire your coach after he lands the highest rated recruit in his tenure. Not to mention we just landed the best recruiting class we've pretty much ever had. Fire Romar tomorrow and a ton of kids transfer away, Fultz decommits and our program falls on its face. Next year will be big for Romar. If he doesn't produce then he is likely gone.

I understand the Romar haters. The problem is, the time to fire him was probably 2-3 years ago. He has gotten the program back on track IMO. Michael Porter who is considered a top 3 player in two years has a really close relationship with Romar, Romar is doing all he can to bring him in. If he gets Porter to sign, then he may save himself another year even if we flop next year. Bringing in Porter would basically be like bringing in Ben Simmons (even though Simmons somewhat flopped this year).

See, I actually think this is the wrong approach to basketball recruiting unless you're a Kentucky, Duke or North Carolina who can just reload with 3 or 4 five stars every single year. In my opinion, if youre a program like Washington or Oregon or Gonzaga those one and done players are program killers, not program builders. I think UW should be looking for Andrew Andrews type players, not Ben Simmons type players. Find those 4 star kids that are good enough players to contribute big time in college and stick around for a few years, not those kids who are going to be here for a year and be gone before you even got to know them.

Program killer? If UO had held onto Jamal Murray, this is a final 4 team for sure, and likely 33-3 right now. The key for a school like UO, is the have a good mix of both.

 

[JSeahawks]

See, I actually think this is the wrong approach to basketball recruiting unless you're a Kentucky, Duke or North Carolina who can just reload with 3 or 4 five stars every single year. In my opinion, if youre a program like Washington or Oregon or Gonzaga those one and done players are program killers, not program builders. I think UW should be looking for Andrew Andrews type players, not Ben Simmons type players. Find those 4 star kids that are good enough players to contribute big time in college and stick around for a few years, not those kids who are going to be here for a year and be gone before you even got to know them.

Program killer? If UO had held onto Jamal Murray, this is a final 4 team for sure, and likely 33-3 right now. The key for a school like UO, is the have a good mix of both.

Yea, I admit "program killer" was a huge over exaggeration on my part, but my point remains. What good did Chriss and Murray do the Husky program? What good would Fulz do their program next year? Rather then chasing 5 stars who were going to be one and done they could have had 2 solid players getting ready for their sophomore season.

UW and UO are in pretty different places right now. UO already has the foundation built with veterans so an elite 1 and done type could come in and push them from really good, to great. UW needs to build the foundation first, imo, and then find the stars.

 

[Tical21]

He's right, the one-and-done's haven't helped at all. We missed the tournament with Hawes, we missed it with Wroten, and we missed it with these two. The Hawes thing really hurt us. We completely got away from our style of play for a whole year just for him and it was kind of tough to get it back. It is a tough conundrum though. If they want to come, are you really going to turn them away? Ultimately, the growth of Thybulle, Dickerson, Green and Crisp are going to make us pretty darn good in 2-3 years, not these one-and-dones. We were bad this year because of a failure to develop and manicure that tall skinny kid whose name escapes me that left this season, keeping Williams-Goss and others. When we've been pretty good, it has been with Q-Pon, B-Roy, Brockman and the like staying late into their careers. Most programs need those upper-classmen role players.