Interesting Jimmy Stats

semiahmoo

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getnasty":1b0dk4j8 said:
I think the answer is Drew Brees had a great connect with Jimmy Graham and was his go to guy. I don't see that with Russ, if he had a go to guy it's Baldwin. I also feel like Russell usually throws the ball were the defense dictates, like the fade to Kearse for the TD, you really think that's was Bevell number 1 option? If so then Bevell does need canned but my guess is Russ reads the defense pre determines were it's going and throws it. Not saying this is a bad thing for Russ but sometimes you just got to your best player escpically in the red zone and let him make the play. I honestly doubt Jimmy Graham isn't a huge part of every game plan but tight end routes usually take a little more time to develop and unfortunately time is something our QB doesn't have a lot of right now. I would also be curious to see how many red zone possessions the Saints had compared to us in the span and what the run to pass ratio is between the two teams. My guess is NO has more red zone possessions and throws a lot more in the opportunitys too.

TE routes don't require a lot of time IMO.

In fact, the opposite could be true. Short, quick, 8-10 yard routes that march a team downfield.

And of course, there's the red zone issue where Jimmy is not getting the targets he should, and so often is blocking. For the life of me, can't figure that one out, but have to assume it's Bevell, right?
 

Hawks46

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The sickest part of that is Graham has been targeted a TOTAL of 13 times in the red zone since he's come to Seattle.

WHAT ?! I can't even wrap my mind around that.
 

LoneHawkFan

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getnasty":1ylue1td said:
I think the answer is Drew Brees had a great connect with Jimmy Graham and was his go to guy. I don't see that with Russ, if he had a go to guy it's Baldwin. I also feel like Russell usually throws the ball were the defense dictates, like the fade to Kearse for the TD, you really think that's was Bevell number 1 option? If so then Bevell does need canned but my guess is Russ reads the defense pre determines were it's going and throws it. Not saying this is a bad thing for Russ but sometimes you just got to your best player escpically in the red zone and let him make the play. I honestly doubt Jimmy Graham isn't a huge part of every game plan but tight end routes usually take a little more time to develop and unfortunately time is something our QB doesn't have a lot of right now. I would also be curious to see how many red zone possessions the Saints had compared to us in the span and what the run to pass ratio is between the two teams. My guess is NO has more red zone possessions and throws a lot more in the opportunitys too.

Not even. I think the deal is that the NO offense is deeply rooted in pass efficiency and, as such, has tremendous athletes at all receiving positions.

We have one stud: Graham. Baldwin rips new assholes when Graham gets doubled...but seldom do teams not double JImmy against us...whereas New Orleans nearly always sent 4-5 guys out that were all targets. Hard to double team anyone in that scheme.
 

mikeak

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Hawks46":2z47j3th said:
The sickest part of that is Graham has been targeted a TOTAL of 13 times in the red zone since he's come to Seattle.

WHAT ?! I can't even wrap my mind around that.

13 it is one more than 12....
 

semiahmoo

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Hawks46":1xwq3ocm said:
The sickest part of that is Graham has been targeted a TOTAL of 13 times in the red zone since he's come to Seattle.

WHAT ?! I can't even wrap my mind around that.


I know.

CRAZY.
 

potatohead

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Jimmy should be getting 10-12 targets per game. Unless the guy is triple teamed there is no excuse not to.
 

bigskydoc

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semiahmoo":2k8ybzg6 said:
When Jimmy is targeted and accumulates 60+ yards in a game, the Hawks have won 5/6 of those contests.

In the games where Jimmy saw fewer targets and accumulated less than 60 total yards, the Hawks are 2/7.

This stat would indicate that Jimmy Graham might very well be the 2nd most important part of the Hawks' offense behind Russel Wilson - and yet, for whatever reason, be it Bevell or something else, we have seen Graham underutilized for multiple games, used as a blocker for a majority of plays, etc.


Problem is, the stats in this thread can be interpreted to mean the exact opposite of what everyone in this thread is suggesting (that simply targeting Graham more will result in more wins).

These stats tell me that when an opposing defense successfully schemes to take Graham out of the game we struggle, but when they fail to contain Graham we win. Sometimes that scheming can come from having a pass rusher attack Graham on the way in and disrupt his route running. As much as we like to think that you can just toss it up and Graham will come down with it, it just isn't true, especially in a Carroll style, ball control, offense. If the defense keeps the window shut, you can't just force the ball into Graham.

I'm more concerned by the fact that he is such a critical piece. If the defense is closing that door, they must be leaving another door open. Why we can't scheme to take advantage of the open door is troubling.
 

floor13

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At first i thought that this was Russell not trusting the "just throw it up when covered and he will catch it" mentality. It is crystal clear that Bevell is a joke. His 3rd and long playbook has 2 plays in it.. Im guessing that he wasnt on board with the whole Jimmy Graham signing in the first place. You have one of the best pass catching TE in the NFL so lets not target him. Id bet that Jimmy wants out of this nightmare. There have been a few games that they got Graham involved in the game plan and i honestly thought that someone else was calling the plays.
 

semiahmoo

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bigskydoc":2uowlp9j said:
semiahmoo":2uowlp9j said:
When Jimmy is targeted and accumulates 60+ yards in a game, the Hawks have won 5/6 of those contests.

In the games where Jimmy saw fewer targets and accumulated less than 60 total yards, the Hawks are 2/7.

This stat would indicate that Jimmy Graham might very well be the 2nd most important part of the Hawks' offense behind Russel Wilson - and yet, for whatever reason, be it Bevell or something else, we have seen Graham underutilized for multiple games, used as a blocker for a majority of plays, etc.


Problem is, the stats in this thread can be interpreted to mean the exact opposite of what everyone in this thread is suggesting (that simply targeting Graham more will result in more wins).

These stats tell me that when an opposing defense successfully schemes to take Graham out of the game we struggle, but when they fail to contain Graham we win. Sometimes that scheming can come from having a pass rusher attack Graham on the way in and disrupt his route running. As much as we like to think that you can just toss it up and Graham will come down with it, it just isn't true, especially in a Carroll style, ball control, offense. If the defense keeps the window shut, you can't just force the ball into Graham.

I'm more concerned by the fact that he is such a critical piece. If the defense is closing that door, they must be leaving another door open. Why we can't scheme to take advantage of the open door is troubling.
----------------------

NOPE. Play after play has Graham blocking. BLOCKING!!?????

He is not seeing enough targets, and certainly not enough in the Red Zone. And not enough of the right kind of targets as well. How many times can you recall Wilson throwing to Graham across the middle? Not nearly enough. The last time I can recall resulted in Graham dragging about 3 defenders with him into the endzone for a TD.

10-12 targets per game is right on. I'd actually like a few more, but I'd happily accept 10-12.
 

semiahmoo

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"Much has been said regarding the lack of consistent targets to Jimmy Graham throughout the season.

It appears the only stat that matters - WINS vs LOSSES, supports the frustration so many have with this situation.

When Jimmy is targeted and accumulates 60+ yards in a game, the Hawks have won 5/6 of those contests.

In the games where Jimmy saw fewer targets and accumulated less than 60 total yards, the Hawks are 2/7.

This stat would indicate that Jimmy Graham might very well be the 2nd most important part of the Hawks' offense behind Russel Wilson - and yet, for whatever reason, be it Bevell or something else, we have seen Graham underutilized for multiple games, used as a blocker for a majority of plays, etc.

If the 60+ yds stat would hold for the entire season, (and given it's based on 6 games, so it's not an outlier but a clear trend, it is not beyond reason to think if the Hawks had been able to more fully utilize Graham's remarkable gifts as an athlete/receiver, the Hawks might very well be the most dominant team in the league right now instead of limping into the playoffs with multiple hot vs cold performances."
 

mikeak

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I am just hoping it is all on purpose so that we can unleash the Graham Beast during the playoff and nobody is ready for it.........

I just hope that we are using that gameplan immediately in the playoffs and not holding it back until the superbowl.......
 

semiahmoo

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mikeak":3mta9ctn said:
I am just hoping it is all on purpose so that we can unleash the Graham Beast during the playoff and nobody is ready for it.........

I just hope that we are using that gameplan immediately in the playoffs and not holding it back until the superbowl.......

Don't think that's the gameplan.

JG looked pretty agitated after the TD last game. Whatever this game plan is, or lack thereof, he's not a happy camper.

Get the man the ball!
 

Seahawk Sailor

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I heard something pretty interesting when watching the Kansas City/Denver game the other day. The announcers mentioned something Chiefs quarterback Alex Smith said about his tight end.

To paraphrase, Smith said: "I looked at the film after the game and realized I'd only targeted Kelce once the entire game. I realized I needed to get the ball to him more often whether I thought he was open or not because he's so good."

That game, Kelce had 11 catches for 160 yards and a touchdown.

It may be that we hear or see something similar from Russell Wilson regarding Jimmy Graham. Whether that's on Bevell's play calling or Wilson's actually targeting him in those plays is up for conjecture. You can discuss that part among yourselves, but I thought that quote was very interesting with regards to our own tight end issues.
 

scutterhawk

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semiahmoo":367q5hra said:
Optimus25":367q5hra said:
semiahmoo":367q5hra said:
Ah, just posted a Graham stat related thread as well.

Great minds and all that...


Lol. Yours is probably better... Gonna go read it now. I was chasing an infant around the house while the wife was cooking Christmas dinner and bitching about me being on my phone again when i was researching for mine...

No, you did good! There does seem to be a direct link between when Graham is actually used in the offense and the Hawks success.

The question is, if we are able to see that link so clearly, why doesn't Bevell/Pete/etc????
Because on seven plays, the Defense obliterated our O-Line in UNDER 2 seconds, that is, until they decided to use Graham to help keep Wilson upright.....Too much a sacrificing for my liking, but what else could they do?, we don't have a viable RB to help keep Defenses honest.
 

semiahmoo

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scutterhawk":35jig4xc said:
semiahmoo":35jig4xc said:
Optimus25":35jig4xc said:
semiahmoo":35jig4xc said:
Ah, just posted a Graham stat related thread as well.

Great minds and all that...


Lol. Yours is probably better... Gonna go read it now. I was chasing an infant around the house while the wife was cooking Christmas dinner and bitching about me being on my phone again when i was researching for mine...

No, you did good! There does seem to be a direct link between when Graham is actually used in the offense and the Hawks success.

The question is, if we are able to see that link so clearly, why doesn't Bevell/Pete/etc????
Because on seven plays, the Defense obliterated our O-Line in UNDER 2 seconds, that is, until they decided to use Graham to help keep Wilson upright.....Too much a sacrificing for my liking, but what else could they do?, we don't have a viable RB to help keep Defenses honest.

Simple, utilize a second TE to stay back and block and unleash JG where he belongs - as has been suggested (rightfully) by several others in here.

Using JG 80% of the time to block is akin to Chicago deciding MJ was primarily a guy out there to set screens for other guys. It's a stunning misuse of JG's talents.

As others have suggested - 10-12 targets a game at a minimum. The guy makes things happen, but only if he's free to move downfield and fight for the ball, which in turn, also frees up Baldwin from time to time for deeper threats.

Basic stuff, but Bevell seems confused by basic stuff at this point.
 

chris98251

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Having Vannett play the H back with Reese as a RB or use Reese, split Jimmy out, when you want to change it up have Jimmy come in motion and set on the line and create a big package and release Vannett, lots of ways to shuffle and disguise things.
 

semiahmoo

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chris98251":3ruahol9 said:
Having Vannett play the H back with Reese as a RB or use Reese, split Jimmy out, when you want to change it up have Jimmy come in motion and set on the line and create a big package and release Vannett, lots of ways to shuffle and disguise things.

Yup, nothing terribly complicated about it, and yet, Bevell, or someone, doesn't seem to get that.

Thus, so many frustrated fans.
 

joeseahawks

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Just in case you guys don't understand it ... we are saving Jimmy for the playoffs... Remember our tall receiver who had zero passes during the season and 100 yards in the SB?
 
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