Is Carroll losing the team ?

[SoulfishHawk]

Yet again, damn good points.

 

[StoneCold]

PCs coaching philosophy is to play not to lose , chew up the clock and to take care of the ball. The team are listening to him too closely I would argue. I'd like to see them let off the leash a bit.

I also think he didn't want to humiliate DQ and deliberately took the foot off the gas. Frustrating but I don't think the result was under threat as some would let you believe.

I don't care what anyone says if you were offered 6 and 2 after week 8 you would snap that persons hand off.

I think you;re right and Pete said as much in his Kiro Coaches interview. I don't think he expected the Offense to be as anemic as it was and that made it closer than was comfortable. I think they played a soft on D and that wasn't fun to watch, but we did win.

Going forward there is a good argument to be made, based on history, that we'll play better in the second half. Young guys have more experience, can play more downs, give more guys a rest and keep legs fresh, which allows you to be more aggressively as the season goes on. That said 9er's scare me and I may need to give my equipment to Chris. (Wyman story and I can't remember it exactly, but you get the idea.)

 

[Mad Dog]

If anything, Carroll is holding the team together. I mean this isn't an uber talented roster. We've got some good players (Griffin, Reed, Wright, Kendricks, Lockett, Brown, Carson) and maybe 3 great ones (Clowney, Wagner, Wilson). Then a whole bunch of youth and inexperience.
The fact that we are 6-2 is exceptional given I don't think we are any more talented than any team we've faced. So I'd say we are over-achieving. Coaches who "lose the team" don't over achieve. They lose like the Falcons are losing.

Change Carroll to Russell and I'm with you.

Pete's processes, coaching style and his attention to detail with the way he runs the Hawk's organization is 2nd to none, but I do not think anymore that he's even an average X's and O's coach, and I've felt that way for a long time.

I think he struck lightning in a bottle by drafting Russell, and Russell's been bailing his ass out and making him look good for a long time now.

No Russell and IMO Pete might not even be here anymore. Pete might still be searching for a good starting QB, like he was before Russell with signing and trading for stiffs like Charlie Whitehurst and Matt Flynn, and he's never had success drafting QB's since Russell.

That could be said for virtually every coach in the NFL. There are very few coaches that can win without either a top notch QB or a top notch Defense. We were lucky to have both for a while. Now we just have WIlson. And I agree that his presence assures us 2-4 wins every year.

Pete's a guy that with no talent will get you 7 wins. With a great D or good QB he'll get you 9-10 wins. With a great D and good QB he'll get you 11-13 wins.

Without Pete and Wilson, we are a 4 win team looking forward to a high pick.

 

[ZagHawk]

Team? No. He has new players in bought into his system and older ones who are willing to go with it.


The fanbase? yes. We've seen enough of the pitfalls of his system where we're getting tired of him not making adjustments when his system/scheme does not work and/or the talent to make it work. We obviously love when it DOES work, but we're wondering he's gone through enough times when it doesn't you'd think he'd have a plan B or something.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If anything, Carroll is holding the team together. I mean this isn't an uber talented roster. We've got some good players (Griffin, Reed, Wright, Kendricks, Lockett, Brown, Carson) and maybe 3 great ones (Clowney, Wagner, Wilson). Then a whole bunch of youth and inexperience.
The fact that we are 6-2 is exceptional given I don't think we are any more talented than any team we've faced. So I'd say we are over-achieving. Coaches who "lose the team" don't over achieve. They lose like the Falcons are losing.

Change Carroll to Russell and I'm with you.

Pete's processes, coaching style and his attention to detail with the way he runs the Hawk's organization is 2nd to none, but I do not think anymore that he's even an average X's and O's coach, and I've felt that way for a long time.

I think he struck lightning in a bottle by drafting Russell, and Russell's been bailing his ass out and making him look good for a long time now.

No Russell and IMO Pete might not even be here anymore. Pete might still be searching for a good starting QB, like he was before Russell with signing and trading for stiffs like Charlie Whitehurst and Matt Flynn, and he's never had success drafting QB's since Russell.

That could be said for virtually every coach in the NFL. There are very few coaches that can win without either a top notch QB or a top notch Defense. We were lucky to have both for a while. Now we just have WIlson. And I agree that his presence assures us 2-4 wins every year.

Pete's a guy that with no talent will get you 7 wins. With a great D or good QB he'll get you 9-10 wins. With a great D and good QB he'll get you 11-13 wins.

Without Pete and Wilson, we are a 4 win team looking forward to a high pick.

But I'm saying with Russell and without Pete we're still an 11-13 win team......and with Pete and no Russell? No way in hell this team wins seven games. More like 3-4.

I do not think Pete is any longer providing an advantage with either playcalling, schemes OR is he any longer an elite talent evaluator like he was coming directly from college and helping John draft our SB rosters.

Maybe Pete the Executive Vice President of Football Operations we need? But I honestly think with Russell we could have just about any of Pete's disciples as HC and we'd be just fine. This is Russell's team now, and like I said it has been for a while.

Hell, if anything Pete might be stunting Russell.

 

[samwize77]

With a 6-2 record....with Russel Wilson and Bobby Wagner on your side....not to mention PC is very much a players coach. uh....no.

 

[IndyHawk]

If anything, Carroll is holding the team together. I mean this isn't an uber talented roster. We've got some good players (Griffin, Reed, Wright, Kendricks, Lockett, Brown, Carson) and maybe 3 great ones (Clowney, Wagner, Wilson). Then a whole bunch of youth and inexperience.
The fact that we are 6-2 is exceptional given I don't think we are any more talented than any team we've faced. So I'd say we are over-achieving. Coaches who "lose the team" don't over achieve. They lose like the Falcons are losing.

Change Carroll to Russell and I'm with you.

Pete's processes, coaching style and his attention to detail with the way he runs the Hawk's organization is 2nd to none, but I do not think anymore that he's even an average X's and O's coach, and I've felt that way for a long time.

I think he struck lightning in a bottle by drafting Russell, and Russell's been bailing his ass out and making him look good for a long time now.

No Russell and IMO Pete might not even be here anymore. Pete might still be searching for a good starting QB, like he was before Russell with signing and trading for stiffs like Charlie Whitehurst and Matt Flynn, and he's never had success drafting QB's since Russell.

That could be said for virtually every coach in the NFL. There are very few coaches that can win without either a top notch QB or a top notch Defense. We were lucky to have both for a while. Now we just have WIlson. And I agree that his presence assures us 2-4 wins every year.

Pete's a guy that with no talent will get you 7 wins. With a great D or good QB he'll get you 9-10 wins. With a great D and good QB he'll get you 11-13 wins.

Without Pete and Wilson, we are a 4 win team looking forward to a high pick.

But I'm saying with Russell and without Pete we're still an 11-13 win team......and with Pete and no Russell? No way in hell this team wins seven games. More like 3-4.

I do not think Pete is any longer providing an advantage with either playcalling, schemes OR is he any longer an elite talent evaluator like he was coming directly from college and helping John draft our SB rosters.

Maybe Pete the Executive Vice President of Football Operations we need? But I honestly think with Russell we could have just about any of Pete's disciples as HC and we'd be just fine. This is Russell's team now, and like I said it has been for a while.

Hell, if anything Pete might be stunting Russell.

You could possibly be right But I see other teams like the Texans and Ravens who
are not winning big just because of the QB talent.
Another coach may not win at all with this defense no?
Another coach may try to make RW do things he isn't good at.
I'm just saying I think it goes beyond the QB for sure.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, TB has the #1 rush defense and the #31 Pass Defense. Let's see if the play calling actually matches up to what is their weakness. However, we heard all week that the Falcons had a good run D, and our running game was solid on the day for the most part. All I ask is that IF you are running in to a brick wall because you are a "running team" that you actually switch it up EARLY and not wait until the 4th quarter.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Change Carroll to Russell and I'm with you.

Pete's processes, coaching style and his attention to detail with the way he runs the Hawk's organization is 2nd to none, but I do not think anymore that he's even an average X's and O's coach, and I've felt that way for a long time.

I think he struck lightning in a bottle by drafting Russell, and Russell's been bailing his ass out and making him look good for a long time now.

No Russell and IMO Pete might not even be here anymore. Pete might still be searching for a good starting QB, like he was before Russell with signing and trading for stiffs like Charlie Whitehurst and Matt Flynn, and he's never had success drafting QB's since Russell.

That could be said for virtually every coach in the NFL. There are very few coaches that can win without either a top notch QB or a top notch Defense. We were lucky to have both for a while. Now we just have WIlson. And I agree that his presence assures us 2-4 wins every year.

Pete's a guy that with no talent will get you 7 wins. With a great D or good QB he'll get you 9-10 wins. With a great D and good QB he'll get you 11-13 wins.

Without Pete and Wilson, we are a 4 win team looking forward to a high pick.

But I'm saying with Russell and without Pete we're still an 11-13 win team......and with Pete and no Russell? No way in hell this team wins seven games. More like 3-4.

I do not think Pete is any longer providing an advantage with either playcalling, schemes OR is he any longer an elite talent evaluator like he was coming directly from college and helping John draft our SB rosters.

Maybe Pete the Executive Vice President of Football Operations we need? But I honestly think with Russell we could have just about any of Pete's disciples as HC and we'd be just fine. This is Russell's team now, and like I said it has been for a while.

Hell, if anything Pete might be stunting Russell.

You could possibly be right But I see other teams like the Texans and Ravens who
are not winning big just because of the QB talent.
Another coach may not win at all with this defense no?
Another coach may try to make RW do things he isn't good at.
I'm just saying I think it goes beyond the QB for sure.

We aren't winning big anymore either, so yeah I'd put us in the same category as the Ravens and Texans..........good coaches that do well with the organizational structure of coaching, but aren't necessarily great X's and O's or scheme coaches, and therefore have a hard time getting the most of their roster due to their scheme or philosophical limitations.

Do you guys honestly think Pete helps us win with his philosophical approach or schemes, on either side of the ball? I don't think so anymore.

Sure he's Pete Carroll, and maybe that goes a long way with making us the top 5 organization in attracting free agents, national recognition and legitimacy. That certainly has value. But on the field? Nope. Not for some time.

 

[Uncle Si]

PCs coaching philosophy is to play not to lose , chew up the clock and to take care of the ball. The team are listening to him too closely I would argue. I'd like to see them let off the leash a bit.

I also think he didn't want to humiliate DQ and deliberately took the foot off the gas. Frustrating but I don't think the result was under threat as some would let you believe.

I don't care what anyone says if you were offered 6 and 2 after week 8 you would snap that persons hand off.

This is how i saw it yesterday.

at no point did i think the team was going to lose, and i dont think they did either. instead of making it a blowout, they chose to play it conservatively.

Wasnt fun to watch, but it wasnt some coaching blunder some make it out to be

 

[Thunderhawk]

I frequent half a dozen message boards. All of them have the option to block a user. No matter how inane the post, I've never been tempted to block anyone. I want to read all viewpoints.

Some of the .NET users this year are really causing me to rethink that approach.

I assume that style points are more important than record for many of you. Personally, I'm thrilled with where we stand. 6-2 is a great record - especially considering the injuries, suspensions, and new pieces we are integrating. Our best football is yet to come.

I'm beyond grateful that Carroll is our head coach. I'm even more grateful that none of you MMQBs will ever have any influence over this team.

 

[Cyrus12]

Yep hes doing awful. 6-2 is terrible at this point...fire him and hire Freddie kitchens

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Who wants Pete fired?

 

[Mad Dog]

If anything, Carroll is holding the team together. I mean this isn't an uber talented roster. We've got some good players (Griffin, Reed, Wright, Kendricks, Lockett, Brown, Carson) and maybe 3 great ones (Clowney, Wagner, Wilson). Then a whole bunch of youth and inexperience.
The fact that we are 6-2 is exceptional given I don't think we are any more talented than any team we've faced. So I'd say we are over-achieving. Coaches who "lose the team" don't over achieve. They lose like the Falcons are losing.

Change Carroll to Russell and I'm with you.

Pete's processes, coaching style and his attention to detail with the way he runs the Hawk's organization is 2nd to none, but I do not think anymore that he's even an average X's and O's coach, and I've felt that way for a long time.

I think he struck lightning in a bottle by drafting Russell, and Russell's been bailing his ass out and making him look good for a long time now.

No Russell and IMO Pete might not even be here anymore. Pete might still be searching for a good starting QB, like he was before Russell with signing and trading for stiffs like Charlie Whitehurst and Matt Flynn, and he's never had success drafting QB's since Russell.

That could be said for virtually every coach in the NFL. There are very few coaches that can win without either a top notch QB or a top notch Defense. We were lucky to have both for a while. Now we just have WIlson. And I agree that his presence assures us 2-4 wins every year.

Pete's a guy that with no talent will get you 7 wins. With a great D or good QB he'll get you 9-10 wins. With a great D and good QB he'll get you 11-13 wins.

Without Pete and Wilson, we are a 4 win team looking forward to a high pick.

But I'm saying with Russell and without Pete we're still an 11-13 win team......and with Pete and no Russell? No way in hell this team wins seven games. More like 3-4.

I do not think Pete is any longer providing an advantage with either playcalling, schemes OR is he any longer an elite talent evaluator like he was coming directly from college and helping John draft our SB rosters.

Maybe Pete the Executive Vice President of Football Operations we need? But I honestly think with Russell we could have just about any of Pete's disciples as HC and we'd be just fine. This is Russell's team now, and like I said it has been for a while.

Hell, if anything Pete might be stunting Russell.

Your presumptions about Wilson are un-knowable. We have lots of evidence on Pete's coaching career without Russell and Pete's never won less than 6 games no matter how terrible his team was. He averaged 8 wins a year with aging and less effective versions of Esiason, Bledsoe and Hasselbeck. He won 7 with an awful deer-in-headlights Tarvaris Jackson.

We've never seen what Russell can do without Pete as a coach. So saying he could win us 11-13 games with any coach is an illogical step with no a priori evidence to back it up. Put him in an offense like Arians and he might be out of the league like Andrew Luck due to chronic injuries. Heck, many coaches may still have him on the bench as a backup since he's too short. We have no idea what path Wilson would have wandered without Pete.

So while I agree that Wilson is the most important player on this team and certainly every bit as important as Pete, I think they both bring us to victory rather than the presumption that Carroll holds Wilson back from wrecking the league.

 

[xray]

Every time they win, it's overraction Monday, and not in a good way.
You should see it when they lose :shock:
That being said, it's cool to have a place that you can vent about the team and talk football. We don't always get along, but it's still cool to have some back and forth about the Hawks. And it makes the week go faster.

Now you get it...this place is a church most of the time...boring...nothing wrong with adult arguing over the state of the Hawks is there ? That being said...I'm a Hawks fan since the beginning . i truly believe that Carroll is losing his grasp with this team . The topic I posted is Carroll losing the team ? It's a legitimate question . yes or no or maybe . then explain your stance ... or attack the poster . up to you .

 

[xray]

If anything, Carroll is holding the team together. I mean this isn't an uber talented roster. We've got some good players (Griffin, Reed, Wright, Kendricks, Lockett, Brown, Carson) and maybe 3 great ones (Clowney, Wagner, Wilson). Then a whole bunch of youth and inexperience.
The fact that we are 6-2 is exceptional given I don't think we are any more talented than any team we've faced. So I'd say we are over-achieving. Coaches who "lose the team" don't over achieve. They lose like the Falcons are losing.

Change Carroll to Russell and I'm with you.

Pete's processes, coaching style and his attention to detail with the way he runs the Hawk's organization is 2nd to none, but I do not think anymore that he's even an average X's and O's coach, and I've felt that way for a long time.

I think he struck lightning in a bottle by drafting Russell, and Russell's been bailing his ass out and making him look good for a long time now.

No Russell and IMO Pete might not even be here anymore. Pete might still be searching for a good starting QB, like he was before Russell with signing and trading for stiffs like Charlie Whitehurst and Matt Flynn, and he's never had success drafting QB's since Russell.[/quot

Agreed

 

[Wartooth]

If you weren't alive, or were to young to suffer Seahawk's football during the 80's and 90's, I could understand posting something like this... Pete's run with the Hawks is the best it's ever been, ya'll should enjoy it, instead of always looking for something to whinge about.

 

[xray]

If you weren't alive, or were to young to suffer Seahawk's football during the 80's and 90's, I could understand posting something like this... Pete's run with the Hawks is the best it's ever been, ya'll should enjoy it, instead of always looking for something to whinge about.[/quote

I remember them there cantankerous years too . I'm old......R too.

 

[scutterhawk]

I think the title may be inappropriate, but the premise the same.

As much as I hope the Hawks run the table, I think you naysayers that give PC his props on "Pete Ball", or say things like we took our foot off the gas because it was Dan Quinn, or "relax...we're 6-2. Everything's going to be ok", need less peyote in your lives.

Our wins have come against teams that are a combined 13-31-1. Not our fault. It's great to be 6-2.

But, none of you can sit here and argue nor prove that the current playcalling, performance, or lack thereof will benefit the Hawks after this TB game. Kicker...neither can I.

But, I'd bet money we end up with only 4 (max) more regular season wins and hopefully a wildcard. Reality may be 3 wins and miss the playoffs.

Pete Ball ok at that point? Everything going to be ok at that point?

We'll see.

Ain't nobody going to talk you out of your negativity, in fact, I doubt anyone even wants to try.
Old saying--> "misery loves company" guess that's why there are so many folks here are so quick to try and nix any good feeling that OTHER fans have about the Seahawks WINNING games. :roll:

 

[Spin Doctor]

If you weren't alive, or were to young to suffer Seahawk's football during the 80's and 90's, I could understand posting something like this... Pete's run with the Hawks is the best it's ever been, ya'll should enjoy it, instead of always looking for something to whinge about.

The decline in the Pete Carroll Seahawks is real. Since the ill fated SuperBowl in 2014 the Seahawks have a below .500 winrate in the playoffs. The Seahawks also missed the playoffs once, and our defense has been getting progressively worse each season. Russell is our best Quarterback ever, and we're just wasting his prime years.