Is Clowney a dirty player?

[ivotuk]

Like Wyman says, the head is attached to the shoulders. You try to make the tackle with your shoulders, and if the "tackle-ee" moves his head once you've committed, there's no chance to avoid helmet to helmet.

It's physically impossible for a player to change direction in mid-air.

Like said above, if Wentz just goes to the ground, instead of rolling, and trying to stretch for a couple of extra inches, Clowney goes right over him.

Carson Wentz knew what he did, knew that he should have played smart and given himself up. That's why he went to his team mates after the game and apologized for getting injured. With his injury history, he needs to play like a QB, and stop trying to play like Beast Mode.

 

[Torc]

Listen to the former players talking about it this morning, I've listened to many and i've heard only one think there was any intent and that's probably because he was that type of player. I've probably listened to another dozen who all felt it wasn't over the line/dirty/intentional and they would know better than the slow mo remote experts finding freezeframes to support their confirmation bias... The overwhelming majority thought it was a football play that had a bad result. Physical game, bad results can happen, it was unfortunate. Some argued that you gotta throw a flag and given how the game is called that could be argued but to think there was intent malice or that the player is dirty is just an upset fan base needing to vent and find somebody to blame. I'd be pissed if my qb took that hit, I'm pissed any time my qb gets his bell rung no matter how clean the hit, just the nature of being a fan but that isn't rooted in logic that's just passion and fandom. I feel for Wentz, hope he walks away from this okay, I feel bad that there's any talk of his being soft cause that's just $h!t talk but otherwise there's nothing else here.

Ryan Clark pointed out that Clowney's body is sideways, and that if you're really trying to hit helmet-to-helmet then your body will be pointed straight at your target. Clowney was certainly trying to make a runner 'pay' for their run, like every defensive player on the planet is going to do. And as has been pointed out, Wentz was not a QB in this situation, he was a runner. If the hit had been on a RB instead, fewer people would be complaining. (Clark's comments should be easy to find on youtube, I don't remember which show it was on.)

I do think it deserved a penalty - he DID hit Wentz in the head, and you penalize results, not intent. The penalties, including the inevitable fine, are meant to motivate players to think more about how they're playing the game. But it wasn't 'dirty' in the sense that he was not trying to injure Wentz.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

I do think it deserved a penalty - he DID hit Wentz in the head, and you penalize results, not intent. The penalties, including the inevitable fine, are meant to motivate players to think more about how they're playing the game. But it wasn't 'dirty' in the sense that he was not trying to injure Wentz.

I fully agree. This reminds me a lot of the ET hit on Mason Rudolph. ET wasn't headhunting Rudolph deliberately, but fact is he did make contact w/the crown, and ET was called mainly because that was the result.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I do think it deserved a penalty - he DID hit Wentz in the head, and you penalize results, not intent. The penalties, including the inevitable fine, are meant to motivate players to think more about how they're playing the game. But it wasn't 'dirty' in the sense that he was not trying to injure Wentz.

I fully agree. This reminds me a lot of the ET hit on Mason Rudolph. ET wasn't headhunting Rudolph deliberately, but fact is he did make contact w/the crown, and ET was called mainly because that was the result.

Yep. Probably should be a penalty, and Clowney probably will be fined.

But dirty hit? No. Not even close.

 

[jammerhawk]

Ans:

No! Referees were right on the play and they didn't call it. At the time Went was runner who didn't give himself up so he got hit. BOO HOO!

There appears to be no indicia of any attempt to injure, sad result and whining from butt sore losers from Philly.

 

[Donn2390]

Whatever gets you thru the day. You lost, no need to start making excuses.

Did I complain that the Eagles lost and use that as an excuse? I did not. The Seahawks were the better team but come on man. Clowney cheated us out of an opportunity, plain and simple. Karma is a mofo. Go Packers!

Had Wentz remained in the game with no injury and a clear head, they would have lost by a bigger score.

 

[Hawkpower]

Since Clowney doesn't have a reputation for being dirty, and because his hit could very well have been just a football play gone wrong, we have to give him the benefit of the doubt I think.

To try and interpret his intent, when by all measures he seems to be a good guy, isnt really fair. Football is a lightning fast game and mistakes happen. Penalty? Sure. Pitchforks and Torches?? Cmon man.

 

[ClippedBird]

When McCown came in, it was an upgrade anyway, so it's not clear what the Eagles fans are complaining about. Wentz was a disaster.

But yeah, also (as already mentioned), the injury was more caused by the field, than by Clowney.

Wentz was not a disaster. This play call was though.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

When McCown came in, it was an upgrade anyway, so it's not clear what the Eagles fans are complaining about. Wentz was a disaster.

But yeah, also (as already mentioned), the injury was more caused by the field, than by Clowney.

Wentz was not a disaster. This play call was though.

Uh-oh. Now you've REALLY ruffled some feathers.

Look, the no-call wasn't Clowney's decision. It was the refs to no-call it, just as it was the refs who called the Clowney on Foles foul last year. You wanna be mad about that decision specifically, you gotta go to the refs.

I myself think this is an area the league is still working out with a lot of gray area. There's not a lot of consistency. And that's where you see J Jones/Josh Allen hit not being called, ET/Mason Rudolph only called when Rudolph is on the ground. At some point, the same is gonna happen with Lamar and with the new generation of mobiles, so the league should just decide what the standard is.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, because a 15 yard penalty would have changed the entire game. Because, you know......the Eagles have had great success scoring TD's against the Hawks this year...…...oh wait.

 

[253hawk]

The score was 17-9 with Wentz and a healthier roster, and 17-9 without. If anything, I think Wentz probably fumbles the ball away once and maybe even throws an INT for good measure trying to heroball it in attempt to come from behind, but McCown was out there doing his best Trent Dilfer impression and using conservatism to his advantage.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He looked scared in the 1st meeting and the same yesterday. And I like the guy a lot, class dude and a good player.

 

[Mindsink]

Almost every slo mo replay I've seen so far shows from the point Wentz is already well on his way going to the ground. Look before McDougald trips him up and you'll see Clowney starts his tackling motion almost at the exact same time as Wentz starts going to the ground... maybe a split second after.

So based on reasonable human reaction speed, it's safe to say that the decision to dive at Wentz was made before he started going down, and he was leading with his shoulder. If Wentz stays parallel to the ground, it's a shoulder to shoulder hit. But because Clowney essentially "whiffed" on the contact, his momentum carried his head (unfortunately) where Wentz's head ended up at the eventual point of contact.

 

[Mindsink]

Wentz week 12:
33/45 256 yds 1 TD 2 INT 75.8 rating

McCown wildcard game:
18/24 174 yds 0 TD 0 INT 94.8 rating

 

[classicaaron]

I live in PA an hour outside philly and have been a hawks fan for life and the crying today is unbearable. they act like if wentz played they win the game but fail to remember the first meeting this year where they also lost. wentz isn't even a good qb. sure hes starter worthy but hes far from good. he had one fluke year like most early qbs do. once film has been out on him he hasn't been great. and I don't want to hear 4k yards, everyone does that in today nfl offenses.

and as far as dirty players I used this example all day today. how many times a year do we see a horsecollar happen? numerous times correct. is every player that does a horse collar a dirty player? of course not. they get called for a penalty, player gets up and we go to the next play and chalk it up to being a football play with a player out of good position. now if the same play results in the WR breaking his leg on the horsecollar the player is now considered dirty and should die. its ridiculous. the action is the same, the intent is the same but the result is different. you cant base things on outcomes along. just because wentz ended up hurt doesn't change the situation.

again I live in pa so watched the game with numerous crybaby eagles fans. when the play happened not a single person cried about it or even thought twice about it. wentz continued to play a few plays not one word. then he gos to the locker room and they show the replay and now all of sudden clowney is the dirtiest player ever. again just because of the outcome not because of the play itself.

basically eagles fans are the worst in the world. they get everything they deserve and them crying out of control is nothing new just another Monday. a month ago they all cried how wentz sucks and Pederson should be fired. now hes the next brady and would have clearly won the game even though he lost earlier in the year.

I guarantee I hate their entire fan base WAY more than they hate clowney right now.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Also, Mccown and the Eagles didn't have a single turnover. They had 5 last time, with Wentz under center the entire game.

 

[MrThortan]

Taking a single frame from a series of events and posting it over and over to support your claim is cherry picking at its finest.

 

[cymatica]

Cool hypothetical.

Do you think Clowney calling Eagles fans the "worst fanbase in the world" after beating their team and knocking their QB out of the game on what many believe was a dirty play INCREASES or DECREASES the chance that some jamoke would do wrong and make a death threat?

IMO if Clowney was actually worried about a death threat he wouldn't say what someone would say if they were trying to provoke one... :lol:

Wow. An actual Seahawk fan typing with their brain. Thank you Popeyejones. Clowney is a clown and saying those things shows how ignorant he is.

I'm not a Seahawks fan. Just a 9ers fan who has happened to post here for the last seven years.

I'm one of "the good ones" whenever my opinions happen to align with what's flattering to Seahawks fans in the moment (e.g. the non-call on Warner for DPI last week, which was obviously a bad call IMO), and a "damn dirty 9ers fan with ulterior motives" whenever my opinions happen to not align with what's flattering to Seahawks fans in the moment (the non-call on Clowney for a very dirty that he should have been ejected for IMO).

Unlike last week when I was arguing against my team's win I'm now a damn dirty 9ers fan with ulterior motives again. :roll: :lol:

I appreciate your honesty. Some fans just cannot accept logic and what their eyes see. ....
... What I did not expect was that our franchise QB was going to be speared in the first quarter with a cheap shot that was totally unnecessary when he could of just been touched which has been the norm this year.

If only you could see the hypocrisy in your post. Watch the play in real time, then tell me if logically Clowney could have changed his momentum instantly. If he tries to do what you suggest, he probably would have injured himself contorting his body in an instant. Your slow mo and still frames completely hide that fact. You apparently cannot accept logic and what your eyes see.

 

[SanDiego49er]

I'm surprised at how much attention it has gotten and continues to get. It's pretty much of a bang, bang play in real time. Both players are diving to the field. Clowney is trying to make a tackle. Technically by rule his helmet really does strike the helmet. So I think it could have been a foul and a 15 yard penalty. It's difficult to say if it was intentional. But I don't think so. It's hard to aim when both players are diving to the ground and both are still moving. Even Wentz was moving. So where Clowney was aiming can change based on Wentz moving too. It's just so hard to calculate that all for a big pass rusher running full speed and diving to make a tackle. I don't think he could even calculate exactly where he was going to hit him. All that said it was helmet to helmet. Probably not intentional. But still a foul that was not called and should have been called.

 

[DomeHawk]

Wow. An actual Seahawk fan typing with their brain. Thank you Popeyejones. Clowney is a clown and saying those things shows how ignorant he is.

I'm not a Seahawks fan. Just a 9ers fan who has happened to post here for the last seven years.

I'm one of "the good ones" whenever my opinions happen to align with what's flattering to Seahawks fans in the moment (e.g. the non-call on Warner for DPI last week, which was obviously a bad call IMO), and a "damn dirty 9ers fan with ulterior motives" whenever my opinions happen to not align with what's flattering to Seahawks fans in the moment (the non-call on Clowney for a very dirty that he should have been ejected for IMO).

Unlike last week when I was arguing against my team's win I'm now a damn dirty 9ers fan with ulterior motives again. :roll: :lol:

I appreciate your honesty. Some fans just cannot accept logic and what their eyes see. ....
... What I did not expect was that our franchise QB was going to be speared in the first quarter with a cheap shot that was totally unnecessary when he could of just been touched which has been the norm this year.

If only you could see the hypocrisy in your post. Watch the play in real time, then tell me if logically Clowney could have changed his momentum instantly. If he tries to do what you suggest, he probably would have injured himself contorting his body in an instant. Your slow mo and still frames completely hide that fact. You apparently cannot accept logic and what your eyes see.

This IS an instance where slow-mo and real-time display two completely different scenarios.