Is this an NFL forum, or a 9ers forum?

[chris98251]

^^^^ :th2thumbs:

No here we don't agree with him most the time, so being a 49er fan it must be wrong

TBF, If I had trouble with being disagreed with it would be really weird for me to have ever started posting here to begin with, no?

FWIW I also think I'm a pretty boring topic of discussion.

The whole quote versus the partial gives it context, I don't expect agreement, if you agreed you would be here complaining about 49ers threads and why the 49ers are in decline

 

[byau]

So, what I am getting from all the people here is that this very forum is so much better than all the 9er forums that you guys have taken up residence?

Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong

To me personally (and I don't have to face the wrath of Webzone mods so I can't speak to that) I enjoy it here because its a different perspective. I know the Seahawks much better by posting here than I would if I were only on a 49er forum.

I spend a lot more time here than any other non-49er forum, but I've spent time on Packer, Panther, Chiefs, Bears, Ravens and Giants forums as well. I do it for a different perspective.

I spend a lot of time here because it happens to be the Niners biggest current rival...which is the same reason I'd suspect there are always so many 49er topics here.

Bingo: the reason there are so many 49er topics? Because they are the Hawks biggest and scariest rival. Division rival. And proximity too.

I'm glad there are 49er topics here and I'm also glad it attracts some die hard 49er faithful because I enjoy hearing their perspective on a lot of our topics.

 

[Popeyejones]

The whole quote versus the partial gives it context, I don't expect agreement, if you agreed you would be here complaining about 49ers threads and why the 49ers are in decline

:?:

1) You and are posting right now because of a post in which I said I PREFERRED multiple threads about the 9ers here to the big, pooled mess of a Seahawks thread on the Webzone. I've made that specific complaint about the webzone multiple times here. I don't know where you're getting me complaining about that from; it's something I've said I like about this place and hate about that place on multiple ocassions.


2) As for "why the 9ers are in decline", I don't know where you're getting that either. IIRC I was the only 9ers poster here who said I didn't feel that good about the 9ers and their chances this year as I did in previous years.

 

[loafoftatupu]

I definitely prefer multiple threads over ones that are old and completely off the original topic. i just caught a thread on the DenialZone that is titled "The 49ers draft Culliver" from 2011. It is on page 1 and contains a story that makes no sense.

That is just one example, but it is all over the place. As far as the decline? The Niners are 2 games out of 1st place with 13 more to play. Maybe there is a decline, but too small a sample size at this point.

In 2012 the Hawks were 4-4 before going on a great run to end up 11-5, yes the situation is different but as a whole the Niners are still a good football team. I am certainly pleased that the Cards beat SC but I don't believe for one minute that AZ can maintain for much longer, even with Palmer.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Marvin & Popeye:

This 1-2 start feels different in a worse way than the 1-2 start you guys had last year, compared to how things looked and felt between weeks three and four of those seasons.

Yes or no?

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I definitely prefer multiple threads over ones that are old and completely off the original topic. i just caught a thread on the DenialZone that is titled "The 49ers draft Culliver" from 2011. It is on page 1 and contains a story that makes no sense.

That is just one example, but it is all over the place. As far as the decline? The Niners are 2 games out of 1st place with 13 more to play. Maybe there is a decline, but too small a sample size at this point.

In 2012 the Hawks were 4-4 before going on a great run to end up 11-5, yes the situation is different but as a whole the Niners are still a good football team. I am certainly pleased that the Cards beat SC but I don't believe for one minute that AZ can maintain for much longer, even with Palmer.

Not so sure anymore given their schedule I see them going no worse then 8-8/7-9 they should be able to take care of the Rams or at least split. Washington, Oakland, Detroit, Kansas City all winnable games and possibly Philadelphia and Dallas. They have a shot at 10-11 wins if they keep playing near the level they currently are.

 

[byau]

Marvin & Popeye:

This 1-2 start feels different in a worse way than the 1-2 start you guys had last year, compared to how things looked and felt between weeks three and four of those seasons.

Yes or no?

Definitely would like to hear from the 49er faithful how they would grade their team, Harbaugh, and Kap at this point. Something does seem a bit off and their 1-2 feels different than the 1-2 from last year. I'd go a C+ all around considering the potential they have and how they haven't come close to reaching it.

I still think the 49ers are scary. I hear on various talk shows about their possibly being a bigger divide this year than last year of Coach and the players. Personally I think it's all talk and I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of momentum from SF the second half of the season, coinciding with a slowdown by AZ.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Definitely would like to hear from the 49er faithful how they would grade their team

Same, hence why I asked. I feel like the main thing that caused them to start 1-2 last year was Kaepernick, despite his "great" opener against Green Bay and their horrific defense. This year, it feels more like a team problem, which is not a good thing for them. Obviously Bowman being out hurts, perhaps more than even anybody thought it would, and their secondary seems rather poor without a pass rush.

A pass rush helps their secondary a lot...We are spoiled up here. Ours is damned good even when the pass rush isn't getting stuff done. (See the 2012 season, for haters that think our pass rush is why our secondary is so dominant; our pass rush sucked and the secondary had a GREAT year, that was the real birth year of the Legion of Boom.)

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

Some fan forums have both an NFL general forum and a division rivals forum. We lump them both into our NFL forum. Is it odd then, by any stretch of the imagination, that our biggest rivals should garner the most attention? That they should have the most threads posted in a forum designed to contain threads about them?

You can either make threads about other NFL teams, such as "Bills: will they or won't they move to Toronto, and will anyone notice?" or "Best pool parties in an NFL stadium, Dolphins or Jags?" or you can make another thread about the 49ers, complaining that we have too many threads about the 49ers. Or maybe not wade into this forum if you're not interested in the contents.

And for those complaining our resident 49ers fans's post counts here are too high, maybe if we make over our site maintenance donations goal this year, the excess can be used to transfer excess from their post counts to those complaining about the high post counts.

C'mon, folks. the 49ers are not only a division arch-rival, they're the team we battled to the last seconds of last year's NFC Championship Game for the right to go to the Super Bowl. It's kind of natural we'd have a bunch of threads about them. 'Course, what do I know? I only work here.

 

[Popeyejones]

Marvin & Popeye:

This 1-2 start feels different in a worse way than the 1-2 start you guys had last year, compared to how things looked and felt between weeks three and four of those seasons.

Yes or no?

Definitely would like to hear from the 49er faithful how they would grade their team, Harbaugh, and Kap at this point. Something does seem a bit off and their 1-2 feels different than the 1-2 from last year. I'd go a C+ all around considering the potential they have and how they haven't come close to reaching it.

Happy to oblige (and actually talk football!!)

COMPARING THIS YEAR TO LAST YEAR

*The 1-2 start is definitely different from the 1-2 start last year, although I think it's unclear if it's WORSE or not. Is it worse for team morale to get blown out 29-3 and then 27-7, or to be dominating games through the first half and then handing them away in the second half? As far as morale goes, I really think an argument either way could be valid.

*Comparing this year to last year, in both years the 9ers first three games were against two top 10 offenses and one middle of the pack offense. Last year after three games they were giving up 30 points a game, this year it's 22 points a game so far. They're actually giving up less points per game this year, because unlike last year, the defense is dominating in the first half rather than just getting abused across whole games. That doesn't mean the defense is better this year (by a long shot!), but it's worth considering.

*Saying that the 1-2 start this year may not be as bad as the 1-2 start last year ABSOLUTELY doesn't mean that anyone should be expecting them to go 12-4 again, or making the playoffs again. Going 11-2 is tough as heck. They did it, but that doesn't mean it's repeatable. Basically what I'm saying is that they very well could be not as bad off at this point, but still finish MUCH worse off than they did last year.

KAEPERNICK AND PASSING ATTACK:

*It's hard to tell how much Kaepernick has developed as a passer, and how much he's just playing differently due to having more weapons. He's cycling through his reads much more and much more quickly than he was last year. His footwork so far is better than last year too. All that said, what I believe to be his biggest problem never gets discussed, and it's the area in which he still struggles most and HAS NOT improved so far IMO:

Kaepernick's biggest weakness is that he either has too much faith in his pre-snap reads, or simply doesn't have the ability to adjust from his pre-snap reads once the play is underway. The vast majority of his interceptions come from him making a mistake in his pre-snap read (it happens to everyone; NFL defenses disguise their coverages), or from a defensive player breaking from assignment and picking him off because they know what he'll be doing from his pre-snap read (e.g. the Conte int and one of the Fuller ints against the Bears, and both of the near INTs against the Cardinals).

This is what's holding him back, not the other stuff that people overstate. It's also the area where he has shown the least improvement. If he doesn't get better in this area, he will have plateaued as a good/above average quarterback (the class of guys like Cutler, Romo, Stafford, Eli, Cam, etc. who people don't really know how to talk about).

RUN ATTACK:

Frank Gore looks the same, Hyde looks better than Hunter. Boone's not all the way back yet and Martin isn't very good. Those two things should get better. Iupati is getting exposed, which I don't think will get better.

Here's the real story, though:

The 9ers offensive line has always been overrated, and each year they look progressively worse for a simple reason that has NOTHING to do with their performance. In Harbaugh's first year the 9ers run game dominated because of scheme. They were using jumbo packages (and putting in lineman at TE) to over power teams which had been built to stop the four wide passing offensive trend of the early and mid 2000s. Opponents didn't know how to deal with it, and they weren't built to deal with. The 9ers run game has been less consistently effective in each successive year because there are increasingly more teams taking the same approach, increasingly more teams building their defenses to combat the approach, and nothing that special about the scheme anymore. The line isn't under performing, they just don't hav ethe advantage they once did. By midway through last year (and through this year) the 9ers have largely moved away from those jumbo formations. It's a whole new running attack, and it's not nearly as special as it was. The 9ers will gain more yards on the ground in some weeks over others, but what we see is what we get. They're going to be hot and cold on the ground. The days of the 9ers being able to lean as heavily as they once did are over, and it has nothing to do with any of the players.



Interested to hear what Marvin has to say.

Will save the defense, Harbaugh, and the coordinators for another post. If anyone is interested, lemme know.

 

[Largent80]

Nice post Popeye, obviously spinach for breakfast today.... :lol:

 

[IndyHawk]

If there was a team outside the Hawks that should have it's own forum and be R rated it's the Santa Clara team..Biggest rival for the last 4-5 years at least..I could see that one getting a lot of traffic ..On a separate note I noticed Marvins post total when I first came aboard ..I was like wow..Is he really a 49er guy?I know I won't catch up to him..He spends a lot of time defending that team..I understand it..

 

[Sports Hernia]

Some fan forums have both an NFL general forum and a division rivals forum. We lump them both into our NFL forum. Is it odd then, by any stretch of the imagination, that our biggest rivals should garner the most attention? That they should have the most threads posted in a forum designed to contain threads about them?

You can either make threads about other NFL teams, such as "Bills: will they or won't they move to Toronto, and will anyone notice?" or "Best pool parties in an NFL stadium, Dolphins or Jags?" or you can make another thread about the 49ers, complaining that we have too many threads about the 49ers. Or maybe not wade into this forum if you're not interested in the contents.

And for those complaining our resident 49ers fans's post counts here are too high, maybe if we make over our site maintenance donations goal this year, the excess can be used to transfer excess from their post counts to those complaining about the high post counts.

C'mon, folks. the 49ers are not only a division arch-rival, they're the team we battled to the last seconds of last year's NFC Championship Game for the right to go to the Super Bowl. It's kind of natural we'd have a bunch of threads about them. 'Course, what do I know? I only work here.

To raise funds you should have a "buy a ban" where someone can donate a certain amount to ban a rival teams poster. Temporarily of course. 1 day = this amount, 1 week = this amount. I'm just spit ballin' here!

 

[Marvin49]

Marvin & Popeye:

This 1-2 start feels different in a worse way than the 1-2 start you guys had last year, compared to how things looked and felt between weeks three and four of those seasons.

Yes or no?

Definitely would like to hear from the 49er faithful how they would grade their team, Harbaugh, and Kap at this point. Something does seem a bit off and their 1-2 feels different than the 1-2 from last year. I'd go a C+ all around considering the potential they have and how they haven't come close to reaching it.

Happy to oblige (and actually talk football!!)

COMPARING THIS YEAR TO LAST YEAR

*The 1-2 start is definitely different from the 1-2 start last year, although I think it's unclear if it's WORSE or not. Is it worse for team morale to get blown out 29-3 and then 27-7, or to be dominating games through the first half and then handing them away in the second half? As far as morale goes, I really think an argument either way could be valid.

*Comparing this year to last year, in both years the 9ers first three games were against two top 10 offenses and one middle of the pack offense. Last year after three games they were giving up 30 points a game, this year it's 22 points a game so far. They're actually giving up less points per game this year, because unlike last year, the defense is dominating in the first half rather than just getting abused across whole games. That doesn't mean the defense is better this year (by a long shot!), but it's worth considering.

*Saying that the 1-2 start this year may not be as bad as the 1-2 start last year ABSOLUTELY doesn't mean that anyone should be expecting them to go 12-4 again, or making the playoffs again. Going 11-2 is tough as heck. They did it, but that doesn't mean it's repeatable. Basically what I'm saying is that they very well could be not as bad off at this point, but still finish MUCH worse off than they did last year.

KAEPERNICK AND PASSING ATTACK:

*It's hard to tell how much Kaepernick has developed as a passer, and how much he's just playing differently due to having more weapons. He's cycling through his reads much more and much more quickly than he was last year. His footwork so far is better than last year too. All that said, what I believe to be his biggest problem never gets discussed, and it's the area in which he still struggles most and HAS NOT improved so far IMO:

Kaepernick's biggest weakness is that he either has too much faith in his pre-snap reads, or simply doesn't have the ability to adjust from his pre-snap reads once the play is underway. The vast majority of his interceptions come from him making a mistake in his pre-snap read (it happens to everyone; NFL defenses disguise their coverages), or from a defensive player breaking from assignment and picking him off because they know what he'll be doing from his pre-snap read (e.g. the Conte int and one of the Fuller ints against the Bears, and both of the near INTs against the Cardinals).

This is what's holding him back, not the other stuff that people overstate. It's also the area where he has shown the least improvement. If he doesn't get better in this area, he will have plateaued as a good/above average quarterback (the class of guys like Cutler, Romo, Stafford, Eli, Cam, etc. who people don't really know how to talk about).

RUN ATTACK:

Frank Gore looks the same, Hyde looks better than Hunter. Boone's not all the way back yet and Martin isn't very good. Those two things should get better. Iupati is getting exposed, which I don't think will get better.

Here's the real story, though:

The 9ers offensive line has always been overrated, and each year they look progressively worse for a simple reason that has NOTHING to do with their performance. In Harbaugh's first year the 9ers run game dominated because of scheme. They were using jumbo packages (and putting in lineman at TE) to over power teams which had been built to stop the four wide passing offensive trend of the early and mid 2000s. Opponents didn't know how to deal with it, and they weren't built to deal with. The 9ers run game has been less consistently effective in each successive year because there are increasingly more teams taking the same approach, increasingly more teams building their defenses to combat the approach, and nothing that special about the scheme anymore. The line isn't under performing, they just don't hav ethe advantage they once did. By midway through last year (and through this year) the 9ers have largely moved away from those jumbo formations. It's a whole new running attack, and it's not nearly as special as it was. The 9ers will gain more yards on the ground in some weeks over others, but what we see is what we get. They're going to be hot and cold on the ground. The days of the 9ers being able to lean as heavily as they once did are over, and it has nothing to do with any of the players.



Interested to hear what Marvin has to say.

Will save the defense, Harbaugh, and the coordinators for another post. If anyone is interested, lemme know.

Agree with a lot of that but have some different takes...

1) Comparing this year to last...yes 1-2 feels different. Can't say better or worse...but different.

2) Last year it was Kap struggling in the worst way because he wasn't getting through his reads as quickly as he should and more importantly...he has ZERO trust in any pass catcher not named Boldin or Davis. The WR situation behind Boldin was atrocious. Awful.

Either they couldn't get open or he couldn't trust that they'd get open. I know it may sound funny considering his performances vs Seattle and the Bears more recently, but he's usually very careful with the ball. If he doesn't trust the guy and it's a close throw...he won't make the throw.

This year...that ain't the issue. In fact, I don't think the offense is the issue. Kap had a rough game vs the Bears. No doubt. He made mistakes on all of those throws...but they also required some insanely good plays by the defender to pick them off. The superman dive by Conte (tho Kap never looked the guy off), essentially a strip by Fuller from Crab, and a great vet play by the rook to drop off his receiver and drift back to cover the TE. No absolving Kap of those INTs because they were all mistakes...but DAMN good plays by the defense as well. In the other two games? Hes had a QB rating of 125 and 103 respectively. VS the Cards he was doing something people said he couldn't do...throw short passes. He completed like 11 of his first 12 passes.

They've moved the ball in every game. Their issue this year is SOOOOO different from last year. Hard to put my finger on it....."stuff" just keeps happening. A 15 yard penalty here. A Holding call there. A sack at a bad time. Whatever. When its a big moment, even if Kap makes the play...its called back. Frustrating as hell.

Not saying he's played perfectly of course. Just sayin that last year HE and his receivers were a big part of the problem. That's not the case this year. Hell...he's finally even getting into a groove with Stevie Johnson. Johnson went over 100 on Sunday.

3) This year...all that frustration I had watching the offense last year I now feel watching the defense collapse with no pass rush and horribly timed penalties.In the first halfs of games, Fangio is on display. He's a great coordinator. He's scheming defense because they don't have the horses back.

In the second half, they get that critical stop on 3rd....and a penalty gives a 1st. They get it again....another penalty. Then they get no pressure...busted coverage....Touchdown.

In terms of yards, the Niners are currently 6th in the NFL. They aren't giving up yards in bunches. What they are doing is making stops but the drive continues because of a bonehead or incorrect call. These drives just keep going on, eating up more and more time and eventually the lack of pressure catches up to them and they get scored on.

Fangio is doing some damn good coordinating....but at some point a guy simply has to beat the guy across from him and that isn't happening in the second half. I saw Justin Smith TRIPLE teamed vs the Cards. SOMEBODY has to make a play when three guys are all on Justin. Lemonier has been invisible. That's one of the bigger disappointments of the season. I like Aaron Lynch and Tank Carradine. BOTH need more playing time.

4) Gore/Hyde: Gore seems the same as the last few years....but he hasn't been the same guy he was for awhile now. He just has patience and vision like almost no other and gets yards more with his head than his body. Hyde just seems to be playing at a different speed. SOOO much faster and quicker than I'd anticipated. Doesn't have Franks patience tho so sometimes just runs into the line.

5) The line. Hrmm. I guess I would say I largely agree. I think it's a very good line especially when they are doing what they are good at...mauling.

Being down Anthony Davis is huge though. Jonathan Martin blows. For the life of me I can't figure out why they don't push Boone out to tackle and play Looney at guard till Davis comes back.

6) Offensive Philosophy: Agree for the most part. They are adapting. Gore isn't the sma eguy he was and won't always be the guy they can lean on. They need to adapt to the players they have and I think they are in the middle of that transition. Kap will never be a throw 50 times a game QB, but I think they will throw the ball more and more and open up space for Carols Hyde and maybe Marcus Lattimore. That's the future as I see it. We'll see if it works.

 

[Largent80]

I think, if you were to grade post....amount of characters, Marvin and Popeye lead simply for their zeal in making sure we are all wrong, and the 9er's are alright, when it's obvious they aren't.

 

[loafoftatupu]

To raise funds you should have a "buy a ban" where someone can donate a certain amount to ban a rival teams poster. Temporarily of course. 1 day = this amount, 1 week = this amount. I'm just spit ballin' here!

LMAO.

That's a great idea!

And for the record I wouldn't pay for Popeye to be banned. I would pay for Marvin though during his week of menstruation, but would welcome him back once it was over.

 

[homerun1970]

I tried to get Marvin a read only ban for a week to see if he lost his marbles if we bad mouth the niners.

 

[loafoftatupu]

I tried to get Marvin a read only ban for a week to see if he lost his marbles if we bad mouth the niners.

IIRC Marvin joined in the offseason last year. There was a point when he actually took his ball and went home, but I think it only lasted for a day.

There are too many reasonable people here for Marv to bail out. If you want to break him we would need to have more DenialZone type folks. We don't have the same percentage of idiot here. Don't get me wrong, we have them but half of those are probably DenialZoners pretending to be 12s.

 

[Popeyejones]

To raise funds you should have a "buy a ban" where someone can donate a certain amount to ban a rival teams poster. Temporarily of course. 1 day = this amount, 1 week = this amount. I'm just spit ballin' here!

I'm really very serious about the following:

If I could pick the charity (and it would be approved and a good one: no funny stuff, contentious stuff, homer stuff, 9ers or even California related stuff) I'd SERIOUSLY be willing to auction off:

1) Temp banning me.

2) Putting anything the winner wants in my signature until the next league year.

3) Picking any avatar the winner wants for me until the next league year.

The donation of course would come from Seahawks.net

Make it a blind auction where everyone has to actually donate the amount they bid, but for #2 and #3 the highest bid amount is the winner and they get to decide how they want me to look like an idiot each time I post. I'm MORE than happy to make a fool of myself for a good cause.

 

[hawk45]

No temp bans, I like the Niner fans we have posting here, they add a lot to to the board IMO.