It is time to move on from Pete.

[ZagHawk]

Pete Carroll has brought the Seahawks to new heights. He came in off of a failure of an administration and brought new life into the Seahawks. He brought us our only win in the big game ever in one of the most one sided Super Bowls ever. The Hawks absolutely stomped one of the best QBs of all time -- and almost shutout the best offenses in NFL history. That moment was one of the happiest moments in my life. I remember that day, the feelings in the street, it was magical. The crazy bastard did it again and got us into a second Super Bowl. Could we be the next dynasty? I wondered. The final second of the game came and the events that transpired collectively broke Seattle, and would be the catalyst for the dismantling of one of the greatest defenses of all time -- and what people consider to be the best team of the 2010s decade.

Since that fateful day the Seahawks have returned back to the ratpack. Rule changes along with a slew of poor drafts, questionable trades and bad in game management have made the Seahawks, quite frankly mediocre. Good enough to get into the playoffs, not good enough to make it past the divisional game. This culminated in a season where the Seahawks missed the playoffs, what followed next was a purge. Our coaching staff was completely gutted, and our cornerstones players were let go. Many touted a 3 year rebuild/reload, here we are at the three year mark. What have we got to show for it? We've got some decent players, but a team that looks uninspired. A defense that was heading towards being one of the worst defenses in NFL history, and offense that is now struggling. By virtue of a weak ending schedule we got a team that could finish 12-4, but we all know that we are the great pretenders.

The man at the center of this Pete Carroll is done being a top tier NFL coach. One poster said it best when they said "Pete Carroll is a hall of fame coach in between game days". Carroll seems to inspire his players, particularly the younger ones. He brings out the best in the players. Despite this, it has become clear that many other elements of a Pete Carroll led team are lacking, particularly his philosophies and in-game management. The same story is playing itself over, and over again, like a broken record player. For the past 5, going on six years, we've played this same dance, repeating the same mistakes. The Seahawks are trapped in a perpetual state of groundhogs day, tied to a coach that has clearly lost his edge.

Carroll has lost his edge. There comes a time when even the greats lose touch of the game, we're seeing that right now. Holmgren, Parcells and Ditka come to mind. A arduous, slow decline from their haydays, into a state of mediocrity, or just flatout desolation. We're seeing that slow burn with Carroll right now. It has become clear that he is no longer capable of achieving anything with the Seahawks other than slowly backing into the playoffs. He's below .500 in the playoffs since our last Super Bowl appearance and we have not made it past the wildcard with some talented teams. Carroll's accomplished all he's going to accomplish here and it is time to move on. Nothing gold can stay, and Carroll's time has passed on. Ever year we keep Carroll, we take a year off of Russell Wilson's prime.

As I read this post, I sit here in amazement as to how anybody could misunderstand a person such as Pete Carroll to the magnitude that this posts suggests... I have been a football fan for 45 years and talked football with many many people in my life and I have NEVER read or even heard of the amount of misunderstood garbage as what this post represents... It's not even worth the time to refute... its that LAME... My goodness !!!! But Im not mad i'm just blown away and it's becoming comical to read this sh!t...

I just think that new people come on this board and form opinions based off the information they read on this site and I am here to tell you that this is complete well written utter garbage... it's a total lack of understanding...See, to know Carroll you have to know how he thinks which is difficult... you have to research him to get an understanding of why he makes the choices he makes... what IS his actual football philosophy where did it come from... to be a great coach you have to be able to work through adversity at an epic level and that's what he is doing right now, working through adversity... when 3/4 of this board starts freaking out at the first sign of diversity... It's not Carroll that needs the adjustment it's the fans who need the adjustment ... educate yourselves before you spew because it's really really lame to read this sh!t LMAO!!!!!

To all of you new people who are forming opinions.. there are some really knowledgeable people on this board not so much this dude...and I'm NOT trying to come off like I know everything because I assure you I do not...but I am just saying ...take what you read with a grain of salt...


LTH

All I read here is another older person who is convinced everyone under the age of 50 is stupid. You know there was a time people thought the world was flat (some people still do). There was a time people thought black people and women shouldn't be allowed to vote or be treated equally (apparently a lot of people still do as shown in 2020...a lot of them older). So lets not pretend being around on this Earth longer suddenly makes you better than everyone else....

Hell even as someone in my late 30s (yeah I'l be transparent with my age here because I have a lot of accomplishments in my life I'm proud of, learned a lot of life lessons and continue to grow everyday and if one thing has taught me anything it's always learn and get better). I even found myself struggling with the concepts of some of the younger 15-25 year olds but at the same time...why? was it just because I was stuck in my ways? maybe they have more information available to them now, making the world a smaller place, than we ever had at that age. I have been working with computers all my life, but no i that 15-20 year old person could never know a software better than me right? because I know DOS and C++ so they possibly couldn't know more about Python or Javacript than me?

The world is evolving always (and so is football). If you're not adapting with it, you're dying. There is a reason why every successful business even at the top is always looking to do more change things up, improve their product, because if you just stick with the same thing despite how you built your original philosophy...you will be dethroned and find your way out. The seahawks are a business...a business that wants to be at the top. You tell me how many top businesses keep their exact philosophy year after year and stay on top?

All you have to rely on is..people don't know how good we have it...Yeah you got to experience to Seahawks be bottom dwellers for along time, that sucks. Being a playoff team IS good. You are $h!t on people who want it better. That's the exact same thing as people who are fighting for BLM right now, and older people saying you don't know how bad it was for minorities in the 50-60s...shut your mouth you have it so good already...they want it better.

Wow that is so insightful I mean that I'm almost 60 and enjoyed reading this. You are correct about this country is evolving no one is going to stop it I just hope it goes in the right way. Business, If you don't constantly strive to make your product better then eventually you will go broke someone will put the work in on your product and start out selling you.

When people get comfortable on their Jobs they seem do do less and care more about other things the eye of the tiger is gone. When Pete held up the Lombardi he said we were going to have a lot more of them well we're still waiting.

I appreciate it. I am eternal optimist and this world/country is definitely evolving. I do think it will be for the better, a lot of big good changes in the world are birthed from tragedy (research automobile and aerospace safety measures and when they were implemented). We'll one day look back at 2020 saying it's when it all turned.

 

[LTH]

As I read this post, I sit here in amazement as to how anybody could misunderstand a person such as Pete Carroll to the magnitude that this posts suggests... I have been a football fan for 45 years and talked football with many many people in my life and I have NEVER read or even heard of the amount of misunderstood garbage as what this post represents... It's not even worth the time to refute... its that LAME... My goodness !!!! But Im not mad i'm just blown away and it's becoming comical to read this sh!t...

I just think that new people come on this board and form opinions based off the information they read on this site and I am here to tell you that this is complete well written utter garbage... it's a total lack of understanding...See, to know Carroll you have to know how he thinks which is difficult... you have to research him to get an understanding of why he makes the choices he makes... what IS his actual football philosophy where did it come from... to be a great coach you have to be able to work through adversity at an epic level and that's what he is doing right now, working through adversity... when 3/4 of this board starts freaking out at the first sign of diversity... It's not Carroll that needs the adjustment it's the fans who need the adjustment ... educate yourselves before you spew because it's really really lame to read this sh!t LMAO!!!!!

To all of you new people who are forming opinions.. there are some really knowledgeable people on this board not so much this dude...and I'm NOT trying to come off like I know everything because I assure you I do not...but I am just saying ...take what you read with a grain of salt...


LTH

All I read here is another older person who is convinced everyone under the age of 50 is stupid. You know there was a time people thought the world was flat (some people still do). There was a time people thought black people and women shouldn't be allowed to vote or be treated equally (apparently a lot of people still do as shown in 2020...a lot of them older). So lets not pretend being around on this Earth longer suddenly makes you better than everyone else....

Hell even as someone in my late 30s (yeah I'l be transparent with my age here because I have a lot of accomplishments in my life I'm proud of, learned a lot of life lessons and continue to grow everyday and if one thing has taught me anything it's always learn and get better). I even found myself struggling with the concepts of some of the younger 15-25 year olds but at the same time...why? was it just because I was stuck in my ways? maybe they have more information available to them now, making the world a smaller place, than we ever had at that age. I have been working with computers all my life, but no i that 15-20 year old person could never know a software better than me right? because I know DOS and C++ so they possibly couldn't know more about Python or Javacript than me?

The world is evolving always (and so is football). If you're not adapting with it, you're dying. There is a reason why every successful business even at the top is always looking to do more change things up, improve their product, because if you just stick with the same thing despite how you built your original philosophy...you will be dethroned and find your way out. The seahawks are a business...a business that wants to be at the top. You tell me how many top businesses keep their exact philosophy year after year and stay on top?

All you have to rely on is..people don't know how good we have it...Yeah you got to experience to Seahawks be bottom dwellers for along time, that sucks. Being a playoff team IS good. You are $h!t on people who want it better. That's the exact same thing as people who are fighting for BLM right now, and older people saying you don't know how bad it was for minorities in the 50-60s...shut your mouth you have it so good already...they want it better.

Again another post that is TOTALLY off base... I don't care how old you are... Stupid is as stupid does... doesn't matter how old you are...

What you guys are doing is chasing off all the good posters with loads of bullsh!t... The one thing I notice is that the guys who know what they are actually talking about and have insightful information to share don't want to contribute because its NOT worth it...I've been on this board for a long time and I'm seeing less and less of the guys who are really insightful..

Not to say that you shouldn't be allowed to make a post but do some research before you start spewing... you talk about BLM and social issue without even the understanding that Pete Carroll is a leader with his team using his platform to discuss social issues... why is that? Do you have ANY clue why he does what he does? No because your firing from the hip, flapping your lips about sh!t you have no idea what your talking about... Its so ridiculous that I might as well just watch Oprah winfrey reruns and smoke weed all day rather than listen to the crap that is being spewed on this board...

Go back and research Petre Carroll ... find out where he came from... find out who his mentors are... understand his background... understand his philosophies... read his books then come in and give an assessment of why you think change needs to be made based off of what you know of him and your best guess about why he does what he does... because you and about half this board don't have a clear understanding of what's happening...

Yeah Im old Ive seen a lot of sh!t in my life ... i'm a vet Ive seen sh!t that I don't even want to talk about... It used to be that the youth respected people who who were their elders but this country has no respect for anything any more and its sad...


LTH

. As a minority it can be argued I was raised in multiple cultures that respects our elders way more than a typical white American (this is FACT). But I respect a lot of people I encounter, mainly for how they present themselves and their accomplishments. I definitely lose it the second a person leans on their age as THE REASON to respect them. Someone you respect (older or younger) doesn't need to use "Respect your elders" as reasoning to have your respect. And respectfully...THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THIS COUNTRY...I respect that, but presenting yourself as someone who calls everyone morons who doesn't agree with you...that's one step away from MAGA country "stop drinking the kool aid about the fake virus". I dont need to read PC's books or understand his philosophies to see it's not working. The proof is in the pudding, play off exit after play off exit with an anemic offense after anemic offense with a too little too late exit against good defenses speak for themselves. SOMETHING MUST CHANGE.

What? Where did this come from? Why is it that you are bring politics to this board? I don't give a rats ass if you respect me or not... I brought up the fact that I have been a football fan for 45 years because in that time I have NEVER read such uninformed bullsh!t...

this is a football forum... not a political form and admin if you reading this you really need to address it...why are you trying to turn this into a political discussion? Why are you trying to put false political narratives on ME!

I suppose next you're going to call me a racist because your a minority? Dude you need help...because your a minority DOES NOT give you entitlement to sh!t Skin color has nothing to do with intelligence... your trying to set me up.. how do you know what race I am? no your just trying to cause problems and you should be thrown off this board...


LTH

 

[LegendKiller]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here. I would respectfully agree that it's time to move on from Pete Carroll. The league has evolved quite a bit since the 2012-2015 Legion of Boom Days.

Especially this season, I've noticed that his stubbornness to make in-game adjustments, questionable play calling and lack of accountability from himself, Russ or any of the coaches has resulted in a consistent and rapid decline of this team. Every year, the Seattle Seahawks have gotten progressively worse. Since Superbowl 49, we have drafted poorly, made some huge trades with little payoff and ultimately, it continues to hurt this team. Not all the blame falls on his shoulders. The game against the Giants had a lot to do with Wilson's poor play as well amongst a lot of . He consistently takes the sack instead of throwing the ball out of bounds amongst other things.

My main disagreement is with a lot of the posters who claim that fans should be happy with having a winning record. Being one and done in the playoffs is not something to be content with. The goal should be to win the Superbowl not to make it to the playoffs. Merely making it to the playoffs only to exit early makes you no better than a team that didn't make it to the playoffs. The end result is the same thing: You didn't win the Lombardi.

Carroll's failure to make in-game and coaching adjustments will continue to hurt this team. Not holding his coaches accountable like KNJ will only result in the same outcome of a historically bad defense. If we can't change the head coach, the head coach needs to adapt to the league and not be so stuck in his ways and refuse to acknowledge the consistent weaknesses of the team.

 

[LTH]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here. I would respectfully agree that it's time to move on from Pete Carroll. The league has evolved quite a bit since the 2012-2015 Legion of Boom Days.

Especially this season, I've noticed that his stubbornness to make in-game adjustments, questionable play calling and lack of accountability from himself, Russ or any of the coaches has resulted in a consistent and rapid decline of this team. Every year, the Seattle Seahawks have gotten progressively worse. Since Superbowl 49, we have drafted poorly, made some huge trades with little payoff and ultimately, it continues to hurt this team. Not all the blame falls on his shoulders. The game against the Giants had a lot to do with Wilson's poor play as well amongst a lot of . He consistently takes the sack instead of throwing the ball out of bounds amongst other things.

My main disagreement is with a lot of the posters who claim that fans should be happy with having a winning record. Being one and done in the playoffs is not something to be content with. The goal should be to win the Superbowl not to make it to the playoffs. Merely making it to the playoffs only to exit early makes you no better than a team that didn't make it to the playoffs. The end result is the same thing: You didn't win the Lombardi.

Carroll's failure to make in-game and coaching adjustments will continue to hurt this team. Not holding his coaches accountable like KNJ will only result in the same outcome of a historically bad defense. If we can't change the head coach, the head coach needs to adapt to the league and not be so stuck in his ways and refuse to acknowledge the consistent weaknesses of the team.

ok so my questions to you..

Explain how you think the league has evolved since the legion of boom days... what brings you to that conclusion and what information do you have that backs that up?

explain why you think Carroll has a lack of accountability from himself and How do you back that up?

Explain why you think the Hawks have drafted poorly and tell me which GM has drafted better picking from the bottom 10 of the league for the last 11 years?

Explain what information you have that Carroll does not hold his coaches accountable...what article do you have that backs that up? do you have inside information to back up that claim?



LTH

 

[ZagHawk]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here. I would respectfully agree that it's time to move on from Pete Carroll. The league has evolved quite a bit since the 2012-2015 Legion of Boom Days.

Especially this season, I've noticed that his stubbornness to make in-game adjustments, questionable play calling and lack of accountability from himself, Russ or any of the coaches has resulted in a consistent and rapid decline of this team. Every year, the Seattle Seahawks have gotten progressively worse. Since Superbowl 49, we have drafted poorly, made some huge trades with little payoff and ultimately, it continues to hurt this team. Not all the blame falls on his shoulders. The game against the Giants had a lot to do with Wilson's poor play as well amongst a lot of . He consistently takes the sack instead of throwing the ball out of bounds amongst other things.

My main disagreement is with a lot of the posters who claim that fans should be happy with having a winning record. Being one and done in the playoffs is not something to be content with. The goal should be to win the Superbowl not to make it to the playoffs. Merely making it to the playoffs only to exit early makes you no better than a team that didn't make it to the playoffs. The end result is the same thing: You didn't win the Lombardi.

Carroll's failure to make in-game and coaching adjustments will continue to hurt this team. Not holding his coaches accountable like KNJ will only result in the same outcome of a historically bad defense. If we can't change the head coach, the head coach needs to adapt to the league and not be so stuck in his ways and refuse to acknowledge the consistent weaknesses of the team.

ok so my questions to you..

Explain how you think the league has evolved since the legion of boom days... what brings you to that conclusion and what information do you have that backs that up?

explain why you think Carroll has a lack of accountability from himself and How do you back that up?

Explain why you think the Hawks have drafted poorly and tell me which GM has drafted better picking from the bottom 10 of the league for the last 11 years?

Explain what information you have that Carroll does not hold his coaches accountable...what article do you have that backs that up? do you have inside information to back up that claim?



LTH

Happily

- The LOB Seahawks actually sparked the NFL to change its rules on defense to help make offenses more successful. WHY (OMG CONSPIRACY THEORY, but it's true). Because there is too much money in fantasy football, offensive stats, and lets be real...scoring points on offense is entertaining and gets more eyes on TV. Have you noticed that teams are scoring more and more points its not just the "offensive geniuses" of the new coaching like McVay etc.... Its because they made lives harder for the defenses. Every little thing the LOB used to excel at which was literally molesting everyone on the field to borderline "where's my holding or pass interference call?!?" cry by opposing fans...is now actually being called by the officials. The reviewable pass interference which was tried for one year was a step in that direction, but it slowed the game too much. However, it does show the intention of the NFL...they want points on the board...not off of it. The NFL was drooling for Mahomes and the offense to win the SB last year and KILL the motto "defense wins championships". The highest scoring offense in history got destroyed by our Hawks, and since then everything the NFL has done was to cater to offense not defense. So yes...one huge portion of the NFL evolving right there which means you better evolve with it.

- Petes lack of accountability. Since SB 49 he had the time to admit passing the ball was the wrong call. He was asked about it and he said, the stats said he should do it. Hed make the same call. You think i'm full of it. We all know how much the LOB all felt he took zero accountability for that and from that moment forward the Seahawks and the LOB stopped playing for each other and started playing for their paychecks. There's been enough reports out there of leaks from the locker room they all felt he took zero accountability for how that went. Also everytime they lose in similar fashion hell even this last game "oh the chunk plays werent there". That's not accountability...that's just saying your crap didnt work out like u planned. You made no adjustments after realizing the 3rd 4th, 5th and 6th time ur deep pass hail mary bombs dont work against good defenses ready for how the Hawks come from behind. He has so much faith that things wil work which can be great, has been grreat, but when they dont he just says oh they werent' there...theres no accountability of yes..i should have realized it wasnt working and switched game plans mid way through..option B, or C...its option A or bust.

- I havent mentioned drafts, but okay lets go there. The hawks hit FIRE in 2010-2012 drafting. Since then...who have they got of worthy mention in the last 6 years, i wont count last year because ill give it a year. Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf. Maybe Carson but lets also face it...for as amazing as he is ON the field...he sure as hell isn;t doing anything when hes injured as well. injuries cant be predicted BUT you are a result of your drafting and how many O line busts have we had, Mcdowell? etc. Trading the first round draft picks for high paid people who didnt work in this system or were injured a lot (Harvin and Graham). Outside of the Duane Brown trade, DK Metcalf and tyler lockett...that's 3 players in 6 years of drafting...maybe Carson (if he stayed on the field for at least 3/4s of a season)...Hawks have been drafting/trading below average for the last 6 years. A decent team will find ONE probowl calber player every other draft...DRAFT not trade. because trade u gave up ur cheap rookies at probowl potential for a veteran player at veteran pay for a pro bowl name...and once someone gets injured you lack depth and here we are again crying about injuries for losses. There were injuries in the LOB years no one made those excuses because they had depth because no one was high paid.

- Got you here. How long was Cable and Bevell still coaching before they finally got fired and everyone and their grand mother could see they couldn't coach/help draft an O-line worth a damn nor make the offense work. The LOB and Marshawn Lynch won those games, not Bevell but oh he was OC during those years he mus tbe the reason for their success...why change anything. KNJ the DC right now up until really last game (defense showed up, offense did not) has looked like hot garbage and pretty much all of last year. They had a come to jesus moment when they had 2 losses in a row where they got everyone in a room to talk about their roles and expectations. Jesus Christ week 10 is when they did that? not week 3? when they were already establishing themselves as THE WORST PASSING DEFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL!!!! already coming off a weak as defensive showing all of last season...

What have you got? other than just saying you dont know the inside info, you don't know their philosophies...once again i dont need to know their philosophies to see it's not working. The proof is in the pudding. Do I need to know how an engine works to know the car has an issue because one of the wheels is wobbling yet the driver wont get out and do something about it? At this point A LARGE majority of Seahawks fans are seeing the same thing I'm seeing and we're frustrated because "in pete we trust" for the last few years we saw the expected decline of a SB contender, then suddenly rather than a rise its a flat line of same old same old (9-11 win season with 1st or second round exit in the playoffs). Show me? in the last 6 years...have the hawks out performed that outcome? have they ACTUALLY shown anything that says they will this year or the next? what in the coaching and gameplans and drafting have you seen that says they will get over that 9-11 win, 1st/2nd round playoff exit level?

If they make it to the NFCCG this year, ill eat crow. When do you eat yours?

 

[OrangeGravy]

I think Pete is a dinosaur that will continue to slowly lose effectiveness over time. He already has.

Still likely better than the alternative.

That said, Alabama is the example you could take instead. Alabama was not just OK with winning. It wanted to be one of the better teams in CFB. They jettisoned a number of coaches that were not doing terrible, just not doing incredible. And for a while, it looked like all the cycling coaches had almost turned them irrelevant. It seemed counter productive, because not only were they not winning - they were losing relevance.

Then they got Saban and now they have been dominant for years.

So if you are willing to throw away winning repeatedly, and OK with the turmoil and losing between - it sometimes can work out for you.

The odds are not great though. Every program is looking for a great coach.

Guys like John DeFillippo were supposed to be sure things at one time. Is Eric B the next John D?

If consistent winning is the important factor, you have to continue to ride with Pete. If doing anything in the playoffs is? Then Pete will bring you nothing and you have to move on from him. But if you do, chances are you will lose a lot more before you start winning again.

I would love for someone who is versed in probabilities to give us a breakdown of what the odds are for each possible scenario if you fired a winning coach such as Pete. I'm not sure how you would break down the potential categories, but something like this for the next 20 seasons if you fired Pete tomorrow:

Winning record, SB - ?% (playoffs most years assumed with winning record)

Winning record, no SB - ?% (playoffs most years assumed with winning record)

Losing record, Some playoffs - ?%

Losing record, no playoffs - ?%

 

[ZagHawk]

All I read here is another older person who is convinced everyone under the age of 50 is stupid. You know there was a time people thought the world was flat (some people still do). There was a time people thought black people and women shouldn't be allowed to vote or be treated equally (apparently a lot of people still do as shown in 2020...a lot of them older). So lets not pretend being around on this Earth longer suddenly makes you better than everyone else....

Hell even as someone in my late 30s (yeah I'l be transparent with my age here because I have a lot of accomplishments in my life I'm proud of, learned a lot of life lessons and continue to grow everyday and if one thing has taught me anything it's always learn and get better). I even found myself struggling with the concepts of some of the younger 15-25 year olds but at the same time...why? was it just because I was stuck in my ways? maybe they have more information available to them now, making the world a smaller place, than we ever had at that age. I have been working with computers all my life, but no i that 15-20 year old person could never know a software better than me right? because I know DOS and C++ so they possibly couldn't know more about Python or Javacript than me?

The world is evolving always (and so is football). If you're not adapting with it, you're dying. There is a reason why every successful business even at the top is always looking to do more change things up, improve their product, because if you just stick with the same thing despite how you built your original philosophy...you will be dethroned and find your way out. The seahawks are a business...a business that wants to be at the top. You tell me how many top businesses keep their exact philosophy year after year and stay on top?

All you have to rely on is..people don't know how good we have it...Yeah you got to experience to Seahawks be bottom dwellers for along time, that sucks. Being a playoff team IS good. You are $h!t on people who want it better. That's the exact same thing as people who are fighting for BLM right now, and older people saying you don't know how bad it was for minorities in the 50-60s...shut your mouth you have it so good already...they want it better.

Again another post that is TOTALLY off base... I don't care how old you are... Stupid is as stupid does... doesn't matter how old you are...

What you guys are doing is chasing off all the good posters with loads of bullsh!t... The one thing I notice is that the guys who know what they are actually talking about and have insightful information to share don't want to contribute because its NOT worth it...I've been on this board for a long time and I'm seeing less and less of the guys who are really insightful..

Not to say that you shouldn't be allowed to make a post but do some research before you start spewing... you talk about BLM and social issue without even the understanding that Pete Carroll is a leader with his team using his platform to discuss social issues... why is that? Do you have ANY clue why he does what he does? No because your firing from the hip, flapping your lips about sh!t you have no idea what your talking about... Its so ridiculous that I might as well just watch Oprah winfrey reruns and smoke weed all day rather than listen to the crap that is being spewed on this board...

Go back and research Petre Carroll ... find out where he came from... find out who his mentors are... understand his background... understand his philosophies... read his books then come in and give an assessment of why you think change needs to be made based off of what you know of him and your best guess about why he does what he does... because you and about half this board don't have a clear understanding of what's happening...

Yeah Im old Ive seen a lot of sh!t in my life ... i'm a vet Ive seen sh!t that I don't even want to talk about... It used to be that the youth respected people who who were their elders but this country has no respect for anything any more and its sad...


LTH

. As a minority it can be argued I was raised in multiple cultures that respects our elders way more than a typical white American (this is FACT). But I respect a lot of people I encounter, mainly for how they present themselves and their accomplishments. I definitely lose it the second a person leans on their age as THE REASON to respect them. Someone you respect (older or younger) doesn't need to use "Respect your elders" as reasoning to have your respect. And respectfully...THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THIS COUNTRY...I respect that, but presenting yourself as someone who calls everyone morons who doesn't agree with you...that's one step away from MAGA country "stop drinking the kool aid about the fake virus". I dont need to read PC's books or understand his philosophies to see it's not working. The proof is in the pudding, play off exit after play off exit with an anemic offense after anemic offense with a too little too late exit against good defenses speak for themselves. SOMETHING MUST CHANGE.

What? Where did this come from? Why is it that you are bring politics to this board? I don't give a rats ass if you respect me or not... I brought up the fact that I have been a football fan for 45 years because in that time I have NEVER read such uninformed bullsh!t...

this is a football forum... not a political form and admin if you reading this you really need to address it...why are you trying to turn this into a political discussion? Why are you trying to put false political narratives on ME!

I suppose next you're going to call me a racist because your a minority? Dude you need help...because your a minority DOES NOT give you entitlement to sh!t Skin color has nothing to do with intelligence... your trying to set me up.. how do you know what race I am? no your just trying to cause problems and you should be thrown off this board...


LTH

You know why no one is really backing you up here...because you're the uninformed one who isn't using any actual stats to get behind your accusations. Call me out for political non sense, I hate politics, but you calling everyone else morons and uninformed and etc...is not much better sounds like user bashing to me. Which is usually the number 1 rule for most forums.. No one is saying Pete is a bad coach, they are saying he can't get to the next level anymore and thus...what do you have that says he will?

 

[OrangeGravy]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here. I would respectfully agree that it's time to move on from Pete Carroll. The league has evolved quite a bit since the 2012-2015 Legion of Boom Days.

Especially this season, I've noticed that his stubbornness to make in-game adjustments, questionable play calling and lack of accountability from himself, Russ or any of the coaches has resulted in a consistent and rapid decline of this team. Every year, the Seattle Seahawks have gotten progressively worse. Since Superbowl 49, we have drafted poorly, made some huge trades with little payoff and ultimately, it continues to hurt this team. Not all the blame falls on his shoulders. The game against the Giants had a lot to do with Wilson's poor play as well amongst a lot of . He consistently takes the sack instead of throwing the ball out of bounds amongst other things.

My main disagreement is with a lot of the posters who claim that fans should be happy with having a winning record. Being one and done in the playoffs is not something to be content with. The goal should be to win the Superbowl not to make it to the playoffs. Merely making it to the playoffs only to exit early makes you no better than a team that didn't make it to the playoffs. The end result is the same thing: You didn't win the Lombardi.

Carroll's failure to make in-game and coaching adjustments will continue to hurt this team. Not holding his coaches accountable like KNJ will only result in the same outcome of a historically bad defense. If we can't change the head coach, the head coach needs to adapt to the league and not be so stuck in his ways and refuse to acknowledge the consistent weaknesses of the team.

ok so my questions to you..

Explain how you think the league has evolved since the legion of boom days... what brings you to that conclusion and what information do you have that backs that up?

explain why you think Carroll has a lack of accountability from himself and How do you back that up?

Explain why you think the Hawks have drafted poorly and tell me which GM has drafted better picking from the bottom 10 of the league for the last 11 years?

Explain what information you have that Carroll does not hold his coaches accountable...what article do you have that backs that up? do you have inside information to back up that claim?



LTH

Happily

- The LOB Seahawks actually sparked the NFL to change its rules on defense to help make offenses more successful. WHY (OMG CONSPIRACY THEORY, but it's true). Because there is too much money in fantasy football, offensive stats, and lets be real...scoring points on offense is entertaining and gets more eyes on TV. Have you noticed that teams are scoring more and more points its not just the "offensive geniuses" of the new coaching like McVay etc.... Its because they made lives harder for the defenses. Every little thing the LOB used to excel at which was literally molesting everyone on the field to borderline "where's my holding or pass interference call?!?" cry by opposing fans...is now actually being called by the officials. The reviewable pass interference which was tried for one year was a step in that direction, but it slowed the game too much. However, it does show the intention of the NFL...they want points on the board...not off of it. The NFL was drooling for Mahomes and the offense to win the SB last year and KILL the motto "defense wins championships". The highest scoring offense in history got destroyed by our Hawks, and since then everything the NFL has done was to cater to offense not defense. So yes...one huge portion of the NFL evolving right there which means you better evolve with it.

- Petes lack of accountability. Since SB 49 he had the time to admit passing the ball was the wrong call. He was asked about it and he said, the stats said he should do it. Hed make the same call. You think i'm full of it. We all know how much the LOB all felt he took zero accountability for that and from that moment forward the Seahawks and the LOB stopped playing for each other and started playing for their paychecks. There's been enough reports out there of leaks from the locker room they all felt he took zero accountability for how that went. Also everytime they lose in similar fashion hell even this last game "oh the chunk plays werent there". That's not accountability...that's just saying your crap didnt work out like u planned. You made no adjustments after realizing the 3rd 4th, 5th and 6th time ur deep pass hail mary bombs dont work against good defenses ready for how the Hawks come from behind. He has so much faith that things wil work which can be great, has been grreat, but when they dont he just says oh they werent' there...theres no accountability of yes..i should have realized it wasnt working and switched game plans mid way through..option B, or C...its option A or bust.

- I havent mentioned drafts, but okay lets go there. The hawks hit FIRE in 2010-2012 drafting. Since then...who have they got of worthy mention in the last 6 years, i wont count last year because ill give it a year. Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf. Maybe Carson but lets also face it...for as amazing as he is ON the field...he sure as hell isn;t doing anything when hes injured as well. injuries cant be predicted BUT you are a result of your drafting and how many O line busts have we had, Mcdowell? etc. Trading the first round draft picks for high paid people who didnt work in this system or were injured a lot (Harvin and Graham). Outside of the Duane Brown trade, DK Metcalf and tyler lockett...that's 3 players in 6 years of drafting...maybe Carson (if he stayed on the field for at least 3/4s of a season)...Hawks have been drafting/trading below average for the last 6 years. A decent team will find ONE probowl calber player every other draft...DRAFT not trade. because trade u gave up ur cheap rookies at probowl potential for a veteran player at veteran pay for a pro bowl name...and once someone gets injured you lack depth and here we are again crying about injuries for losses. There were injuries in the LOB years no one made those excuses because they had depth because no one was high paid.

- Got you here. How long was Cable and Bevell still coaching before they finally got fired and everyone and their grand mother could see they couldn't coach/help draft an O-line worth a damn nor make the offense work. The LOB and Marshawn Lynch won those games, not Bevell but oh he was OC during those years he mus tbe the reason for their success...why change anything. KNJ the DC right now up until really last game (defense showed up, offense did not) has looked like hot garbage and pretty much all of last year. They had a come to jesus moment when they had 2 losses in a row where they got everyone in a room to talk about their roles and expectations. Jesus Christ week 10 is when they did that? not week 3? when they were already establishing themselves as THE WORST PASSING DEFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL!!!! already coming off a weak as defensive showing all of last season...

What have you got? other than just saying you dont know the inside info, you don't know their philosophies...once again i dont need to know their philosophies to see it's not working. The proof is in the pudding. Do I need to know how an engine works to know the car has an issue because one of the wheels is wobbling yet the driver wont get out and do something about it? At this point A LARGE majority of Seahawks fans are seeing the same thing I'm seeing and we're frustrated because "in pete we trust" for the last few years we saw the expected decline of a SB contender, then suddenly rather than a rise its a flat line of same old same old (9-11 win season with 1st or second round exit in the playoffs). Show me? in the last 6 years...have the hawks out performed that outcome? have they ACTUALLY shown anything that says they will this year or the next? what in the coaching and gameplans and drafting have you seen that says they will get over that 9-11 win, 1st/2nd round playoff exit level?

If they make it to the NFCCG this year, ill eat crow. When do you eat yours?

Those changes you speak of the NFL making to help offenses started when the LOB was still in grade school. The LOB got flagged more for being handsy, but nothing they did changed the way the league's rules were. The concussion disaster directly lead to all of the crap rules taking away the defenses ability to tackle a receiver. The only reason Bam Bam could do what he did was because the league was still adding and adding to those defenseless player rules every offseason. He was just lucky enough to come along before the rules evolved to where they are now.

I think people also forget that PeteBall and Pete was a dinosaur compared to the NFL he returned to. The league was already a passing league. The rules already favored, HEAVILY, QBs and receivers. Go back and look. His run first, tough Defense wasn't thought well of when he started with Seattle. I don't think you'll find many pundits predicting his success back at the beginning. Even when LOB became the LOB, nobody thought style had a snowball's chance in hell to beat the vaunted Bronco's #1 offense that threw the ball all over the place.

So to me, Pete has always been a dinosaur. Using that now as an a reason to fire him holds no water. The one thing that everyone misses in these "how the league has changed" discussions is that one thing has never changed. No matter how good your offense is, you won't win the SB without your defense playing at a top level in the playoffs. Even the Chiefs with Mahomes couldn't get over that hump until their D started playing to level at the end of last year. For me it's all about the D. If Seattle's defense can get to top 10, the offense just has to competent.

 

[FPD]

I think it still comes back to:

Who would you rather have?

 

[LTH]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here. I would respectfully agree that it's time to move on from Pete Carroll. The league has evolved quite a bit since the 2012-2015 Legion of Boom Days.

Especially this season, I've noticed that his stubbornness to make in-game adjustments, questionable play calling and lack of accountability from himself, Russ or any of the coaches has resulted in a consistent and rapid decline of this team. Every year, the Seattle Seahawks have gotten progressively worse. Since Superbowl 49, we have drafted poorly, made some huge trades with little payoff and ultimately, it continues to hurt this team. Not all the blame falls on his shoulders. The game against the Giants had a lot to do with Wilson's poor play as well amongst a lot of . He consistently takes the sack instead of throwing the ball out of bounds amongst other things.

My main disagreement is with a lot of the posters who claim that fans should be happy with having a winning record. Being one and done in the playoffs is not something to be content with. The goal should be to win the Superbowl not to make it to the playoffs. Merely making it to the playoffs only to exit early makes you no better than a team that didn't make it to the playoffs. The end result is the same thing: You didn't win the Lombardi.

Carroll's failure to make in-game and coaching adjustments will continue to hurt this team. Not holding his coaches accountable like KNJ will only result in the same outcome of a historically bad defense. If we can't change the head coach, the head coach needs to adapt to the league and not be so stuck in his ways and refuse to acknowledge the consistent weaknesses of the team.

ok so my questions to you..

Explain how you think the league has evolved since the legion of boom days... what brings you to that conclusion and what information do you have that backs that up?

explain why you think Carroll has a lack of accountability from himself and How do you back that up?

Explain why you think the Hawks have drafted poorly and tell me which GM has drafted better picking from the bottom 10 of the league for the last 11 years?

Explain what information you have that Carroll does not hold his coaches accountable...what article do you have that backs that up? do you have inside information to back up that claim?



LTH

Happily

- The LOB Seahawks actually sparked the NFL to change its rules on defense to help make offenses more successful. WHY (OMG CONSPIRACY THEORY, but it's true). Because there is too much money in fantasy football, offensive stats, and lets be real...scoring points on offense is entertaining and gets more eyes on TV. Have you noticed that teams are scoring more and more points its not just the "offensive geniuses" of the new coaching like McVay etc.... Its because they made lives harder for the defenses. Every little thing the LOB used to excel at which was literally molesting everyone on the field to borderline "where's my holding or pass interference call?!?" cry by opposing fans...is now actually being called by the officials. The reviewable pass interference which was tried for one year was a step in that direction, but it slowed the game too much. However, it does show the intention of the NFL...they want points on the board...not off of it. The NFL was drooling for Mahomes and the offense to win the SB last year and KILL the motto "defense wins championships". The highest scoring offense in history got destroyed by our Hawks, and since then everything the NFL has done was to cater to offense not defense. So yes...one huge portion of the NFL evolving right there which means you better evolve with it.

- Petes lack of accountability. Since SB 49 he had the time to admit passing the ball was the wrong call. He was asked about it and he said, the stats said he should do it. Hed make the same call. You think i'm full of it. We all know how much the LOB all felt he took zero accountability for that and from that moment forward the Seahawks and the LOB stopped playing for each other and started playing for their paychecks. There's been enough reports out there of leaks from the locker room they all felt he took zero accountability for how that went. Also everytime they lose in similar fashion hell even this last game "oh the chunk plays werent there". That's not accountability...that's just saying your crap didnt work out like u planned. You made no adjustments after realizing the 3rd 4th, 5th and 6th time ur deep pass hail mary bombs dont work against good defenses ready for how the Hawks come from behind. He has so much faith that things wil work which can be great, has been grreat, but when they dont he just says oh they werent' there...theres no accountability of yes..i should have realized it wasnt working and switched game plans mid way through..option B, or C...its option A or bust.

- I havent mentioned drafts, but okay lets go there. The hawks hit FIRE in 2010-2012 drafting. Since then...who have they got of worthy mention in the last 6 years, i wont count last year because ill give it a year. Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf. Maybe Carson but lets also face it...for as amazing as he is ON the field...he sure as hell isn;t doing anything when hes injured as well. injuries cant be predicted BUT you are a result of your drafting and how many O line busts have we had, Mcdowell? etc. Trading the first round draft picks for high paid people who didnt work in this system or were injured a lot (Harvin and Graham). Outside of the Duane Brown trade, DK Metcalf and tyler lockett...that's 3 players in 6 years of drafting...maybe Carson (if he stayed on the field for at least 3/4s of a season)...Hawks have been drafting/trading below average for the last 6 years. A decent team will find ONE probowl calber player every other draft...DRAFT not trade. because trade u gave up ur cheap rookies at probowl potential for a veteran player at veteran pay for a pro bowl name...and once someone gets injured you lack depth and here we are again crying about injuries for losses. There were injuries in the LOB years no one made those excuses because they had depth because no one was high paid.

- Got you here. How long was Cable and Bevell still coaching before they finally got fired and everyone and their grand mother could see they couldn't coach/help draft an O-line worth a damn nor make the offense work. The LOB and Marshawn Lynch won those games, not Bevell but oh he was OC during those years he mus tbe the reason for their success...why change anything. KNJ the DC right now up until really last game (defense showed up, offense did not) has looked like hot garbage and pretty much all of last year. They had a come to jesus moment when they had 2 losses in a row where they got everyone in a room to talk about their roles and expectations. Jesus Christ week 10 is when they did that? not week 3? when they were already establishing themselves as THE WORST PASSING DEFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL!!!! already coming off a weak as defensive showing all of last season...

What have you got? other than just saying you dont know the inside info, you don't know their philosophies...once again i dont need to know their philosophies to see it's not working. The proof is in the pudding. Do I need to know how an engine works to know the car has an issue because one of the wheels is wobbling yet the driver wont get out and do something about it? At this point A LARGE majority of Seahawks fans are seeing the same thing I'm seeing and we're frustrated because "in pete we trust" for the last few years we saw the expected decline of a SB contender, then suddenly rather than a rise its a flat line of same old same old (9-11 win season with 1st or second round exit in the playoffs). Show me? in the last 6 years...have the hawks out performed that outcome? have they ACTUALLY shown anything that says they will this year or the next? what in the coaching and gameplans and drafting have you seen that says they will get over that 9-11 win, 1st/2nd round playoff exit level?

If they make it to the NFCCG this year, ill eat crow. When do you eat yours?

Those changes you speak of the NFL making to help offenses started when the LOB was still in grade school. The LOB got flagged more for being handsy, but nothing they did changed the way the league's rules were. The concussion disaster directly lead to all of the crap rules taking away the defenses ability to tackle a receiver. The only reason Bam Bam could do what he did was because the league was still adding and adding to those defenseless player rules every offseason. He was just lucky enough to come along before the rules evolved to where they are now.

I think people also forget that PeteBall and Pete was a dinosaur compared to the NFL he returned to. The league was already a passing league. The rules already favored, HEAVILY, QBs and receivers. Go back and look. His run first, tough Defense wasn't thought well of when he started with Seattle. I don't think you'll find many pundits predicting his success back at the beginning. Even when LOB became the LOB, nobody thought style had a snowball's chance in hell to beat the vaunted Bronco's #1 offense that threw the ball all over the place.

So to me, Pete has always been a dinosaur. Using that now as an a reason to fire him holds no water. The one thing that everyone misses in these "how the league has changed" discussions is that one thing has never changed. No matter how good your offense is, you won't win the SB without your defense playing at a top level in the playoffs. Even the Chiefs with Mahomes couldn't get over that hump until their D started playing to level at the end of last year. For me it's all about the D. If Seattle's defense can get to top 10, the offense just has to competent.

Nice post!!!

 

[LTH]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here. I would respectfully agree that it's time to move on from Pete Carroll. The league has evolved quite a bit since the 2012-2015 Legion of Boom Days.

Especially this season, I've noticed that his stubbornness to make in-game adjustments, questionable play calling and lack of accountability from himself, Russ or any of the coaches has resulted in a consistent and rapid decline of this team. Every year, the Seattle Seahawks have gotten progressively worse. Since Superbowl 49, we have drafted poorly, made some huge trades with little payoff and ultimately, it continues to hurt this team. Not all the blame falls on his shoulders. The game against the Giants had a lot to do with Wilson's poor play as well amongst a lot of . He consistently takes the sack instead of throwing the ball out of bounds amongst other things.

My main disagreement is with a lot of the posters who claim that fans should be happy with having a winning record. Being one and done in the playoffs is not something to be content with. The goal should be to win the Superbowl not to make it to the playoffs. Merely making it to the playoffs only to exit early makes you no better than a team that didn't make it to the playoffs. The end result is the same thing: You didn't win the Lombardi.

Carroll's failure to make in-game and coaching adjustments will continue to hurt this team. Not holding his coaches accountable like KNJ will only result in the same outcome of a historically bad defense. If we can't change the head coach, the head coach needs to adapt to the league and not be so stuck in his ways and refuse to acknowledge the consistent weaknesses of the team.

ok so my questions to you..

Explain how you think the league has evolved since the legion of boom days... what brings you to that conclusion and what information do you have that backs that up?

explain why you think Carroll has a lack of accountability from himself and How do you back that up?

Explain why you think the Hawks have drafted poorly and tell me which GM has drafted better picking from the bottom 10 of the league for the last 11 years?

Explain what information you have that Carroll does not hold his coaches accountable...what article do you have that backs that up? do you have inside information to back up that claim?



LTH

Happily

- The LOB Seahawks actually sparked the NFL to change its rules on defense to help make offenses more successful. WHY (OMG CONSPIRACY THEORY, but it's true). Because there is too much money in fantasy football, offensive stats, and lets be real...scoring points on offense is entertaining and gets more eyes on TV. Have you noticed that teams are scoring more and more points its not just the "offensive geniuses" of the new coaching like McVay etc.... Its because they made lives harder for the defenses. Every little thing the LOB used to excel at which was literally molesting everyone on the field to borderline "where's my holding or pass interference call?!?" cry by opposing fans...is now actually being called by the officials. The reviewable pass interference which was tried for one year was a step in that direction, but it slowed the game too much. However, it does show the intention of the NFL...they want points on the board...not off of it. The NFL was drooling for Mahomes and the offense to win the SB last year and KILL the motto "defense wins championships". The highest scoring offense in history got destroyed by our Hawks, and since then everything the NFL has done was to cater to offense not defense. So yes...one huge portion of the NFL evolving right there which means you better evolve with it.

- Petes lack of accountability. Since SB 49 he had the time to admit passing the ball was the wrong call. He was asked about it and he said, the stats said he should do it. Hed make the same call. You think i'm full of it. We all know how much the LOB all felt he took zero accountability for that and from that moment forward the Seahawks and the LOB stopped playing for each other and started playing for their paychecks. There's been enough reports out there of leaks from the locker room they all felt he took zero accountability for how that went. Also everytime they lose in similar fashion hell even this last game "oh the chunk plays werent there". That's not accountability...that's just saying your crap didnt work out like u planned. You made no adjustments after realizing the 3rd 4th, 5th and 6th time ur deep pass hail mary bombs dont work against good defenses ready for how the Hawks come from behind. He has so much faith that things wil work which can be great, has been grreat, but when they dont he just says oh they werent' there...theres no accountability of yes..i should have realized it wasnt working and switched game plans mid way through..option B, or C...its option A or bust.

- I havent mentioned drafts, but okay lets go there. The hawks hit FIRE in 2010-2012 drafting. Since then...who have they got of worthy mention in the last 6 years, i wont count last year because ill give it a year. Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf. Maybe Carson but lets also face it...for as amazing as he is ON the field...he sure as hell isn;t doing anything when hes injured as well. injuries cant be predicted BUT you are a result of your drafting and how many O line busts have we had, Mcdowell? etc. Trading the first round draft picks for high paid people who didnt work in this system or were injured a lot (Harvin and Graham). Outside of the Duane Brown trade, DK Metcalf and tyler lockett...that's 3 players in 6 years of drafting...maybe Carson (if he stayed on the field for at least 3/4s of a season)...Hawks have been drafting/trading below average for the last 6 years. A decent team will find ONE probowl calber player every other draft...DRAFT not trade. because trade u gave up ur cheap rookies at probowl potential for a veteran player at veteran pay for a pro bowl name...and once someone gets injured you lack depth and here we are again crying about injuries for losses. There were injuries in the LOB years no one made those excuses because they had depth because no one was high paid.

- Got you here. How long was Cable and Bevell still coaching before they finally got fired and everyone and their grand mother could see they couldn't coach/help draft an O-line worth a damn nor make the offense work. The LOB and Marshawn Lynch won those games, not Bevell but oh he was OC during those years he mus tbe the reason for their success...why change anything. KNJ the DC right now up until really last game (defense showed up, offense did not) has looked like hot garbage and pretty much all of last year. They had a come to jesus moment when they had 2 losses in a row where they got everyone in a room to talk about their roles and expectations. Jesus Christ week 10 is when they did that? not week 3? when they were already establishing themselves as THE WORST PASSING DEFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL!!!! already coming off a weak as defensive showing all of last season...

What have you got? other than just saying you dont know the inside info, you don't know their philosophies...once again i dont need to know their philosophies to see it's not working. The proof is in the pudding. Do I need to know how an engine works to know the car has an issue because one of the wheels is wobbling yet the driver wont get out and do something about it? At this point A LARGE majority of Seahawks fans are seeing the same thing I'm seeing and we're frustrated because "in pete we trust" for the last few years we saw the expected decline of a SB contender, then suddenly rather than a rise its a flat line of same old same old (9-11 win season with 1st or second round exit in the playoffs). Show me? in the last 6 years...have the hawks out performed that outcome? have they ACTUALLY shown anything that says they will this year or the next? what in the coaching and gameplans and drafting have you seen that says they will get over that 9-11 win, 1st/2nd round playoff exit level?

If they make it to the NFCCG this year, ill eat crow. When do you eat yours?

I don't waste my time on people like you.... You will argue a point you don't understand even if for some miraculous reason you figured out that you were wrong, you would still argue the same point... what a joke...

LTH

 

[pittpnthrs]

Everything Zaghawk just posted is legit. Its easy to run away from it or lend a blind eye, but its legit nontheless.

 

[ZagHawk]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here. I would respectfully agree that it's time to move on from Pete Carroll. The league has evolved quite a bit since the 2012-2015 Legion of Boom Days.

Especially this season, I've noticed that his stubbornness to make in-game adjustments, questionable play calling and lack of accountability from himself, Russ or any of the coaches has resulted in a consistent and rapid decline of this team. Every year, the Seattle Seahawks have gotten progressively worse. Since Superbowl 49, we have drafted poorly, made some huge trades with little payoff and ultimately, it continues to hurt this team. Not all the blame falls on his shoulders. The game against the Giants had a lot to do with Wilson's poor play as well amongst a lot of . He consistently takes the sack instead of throwing the ball out of bounds amongst other things.

My main disagreement is with a lot of the posters who claim that fans should be happy with having a winning record. Being one and done in the playoffs is not something to be content with. The goal should be to win the Superbowl not to make it to the playoffs. Merely making it to the playoffs only to exit early makes you no better than a team that didn't make it to the playoffs. The end result is the same thing: You didn't win the Lombardi.

Carroll's failure to make in-game and coaching adjustments will continue to hurt this team. Not holding his coaches accountable like KNJ will only result in the same outcome of a historically bad defense. If we can't change the head coach, the head coach needs to adapt to the league and not be so stuck in his ways and refuse to acknowledge the consistent weaknesses of the team.

ok so my questions to you..

Explain how you think the league has evolved since the legion of boom days... what brings you to that conclusion and what information do you have that backs that up?

explain why you think Carroll has a lack of accountability from himself and How do you back that up?

Explain why you think the Hawks have drafted poorly and tell me which GM has drafted better picking from the bottom 10 of the league for the last 11 years?

Explain what information you have that Carroll does not hold his coaches accountable...what article do you have that backs that up? do you have inside information to back up that claim?



LTH

Happily

- The LOB Seahawks actually sparked the NFL to change its rules on defense to help make offenses more successful. WHY (OMG CONSPIRACY THEORY, but it's true). Because there is too much money in fantasy football, offensive stats, and lets be real...scoring points on offense is entertaining and gets more eyes on TV. Have you noticed that teams are scoring more and more points its not just the "offensive geniuses" of the new coaching like McVay etc.... Its because they made lives harder for the defenses. Every little thing the LOB used to excel at which was literally molesting everyone on the field to borderline "where's my holding or pass interference call?!?" cry by opposing fans...is now actually being called by the officials. The reviewable pass interference which was tried for one year was a step in that direction, but it slowed the game too much. However, it does show the intention of the NFL...they want points on the board...not off of it. The NFL was drooling for Mahomes and the offense to win the SB last year and KILL the motto "defense wins championships". The highest scoring offense in history got destroyed by our Hawks, and since then everything the NFL has done was to cater to offense not defense. So yes...one huge portion of the NFL evolving right there which means you better evolve with it.

- Petes lack of accountability. Since SB 49 he had the time to admit passing the ball was the wrong call. He was asked about it and he said, the stats said he should do it. Hed make the same call. You think i'm full of it. We all know how much the LOB all felt he took zero accountability for that and from that moment forward the Seahawks and the LOB stopped playing for each other and started playing for their paychecks. There's been enough reports out there of leaks from the locker room they all felt he took zero accountability for how that went. Also everytime they lose in similar fashion hell even this last game "oh the chunk plays werent there". That's not accountability...that's just saying your crap didnt work out like u planned. You made no adjustments after realizing the 3rd 4th, 5th and 6th time ur deep pass hail mary bombs dont work against good defenses ready for how the Hawks come from behind. He has so much faith that things wil work which can be great, has been grreat, but when they dont he just says oh they werent' there...theres no accountability of yes..i should have realized it wasnt working and switched game plans mid way through..option B, or C...its option A or bust.

- I havent mentioned drafts, but okay lets go there. The hawks hit FIRE in 2010-2012 drafting. Since then...who have they got of worthy mention in the last 6 years, i wont count last year because ill give it a year. Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf. Maybe Carson but lets also face it...for as amazing as he is ON the field...he sure as hell isn;t doing anything when hes injured as well. injuries cant be predicted BUT you are a result of your drafting and how many O line busts have we had, Mcdowell? etc. Trading the first round draft picks for high paid people who didnt work in this system or were injured a lot (Harvin and Graham). Outside of the Duane Brown trade, DK Metcalf and tyler lockett...that's 3 players in 6 years of drafting...maybe Carson (if he stayed on the field for at least 3/4s of a season)...Hawks have been drafting/trading below average for the last 6 years. A decent team will find ONE probowl calber player every other draft...DRAFT not trade. because trade u gave up ur cheap rookies at probowl potential for a veteran player at veteran pay for a pro bowl name...and once someone gets injured you lack depth and here we are again crying about injuries for losses. There were injuries in the LOB years no one made those excuses because they had depth because no one was high paid.

- Got you here. How long was Cable and Bevell still coaching before they finally got fired and everyone and their grand mother could see they couldn't coach/help draft an O-line worth a damn nor make the offense work. The LOB and Marshawn Lynch won those games, not Bevell but oh he was OC during those years he mus tbe the reason for their success...why change anything. KNJ the DC right now up until really last game (defense showed up, offense did not) has looked like hot garbage and pretty much all of last year. They had a come to jesus moment when they had 2 losses in a row where they got everyone in a room to talk about their roles and expectations. Jesus Christ week 10 is when they did that? not week 3? when they were already establishing themselves as THE WORST PASSING DEFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL!!!! already coming off a weak as defensive showing all of last season...

What have you got? other than just saying you dont know the inside info, you don't know their philosophies...once again i dont need to know their philosophies to see it's not working. The proof is in the pudding. Do I need to know how an engine works to know the car has an issue because one of the wheels is wobbling yet the driver wont get out and do something about it? At this point A LARGE majority of Seahawks fans are seeing the same thing I'm seeing and we're frustrated because "in pete we trust" for the last few years we saw the expected decline of a SB contender, then suddenly rather than a rise its a flat line of same old same old (9-11 win season with 1st or second round exit in the playoffs). Show me? in the last 6 years...have the hawks out performed that outcome? have they ACTUALLY shown anything that says they will this year or the next? what in the coaching and gameplans and drafting have you seen that says they will get over that 9-11 win, 1st/2nd round playoff exit level?

If they make it to the NFCCG this year, ill eat crow. When do you eat yours?

Those changes you speak of the NFL making to help offenses started when the LOB was still in grade school. The LOB got flagged more for being handsy, but nothing they did changed the way the league's rules were. The concussion disaster directly lead to all of the crap rules taking away the defenses ability to tackle a receiver. The only reason Bam Bam could do what he did was because the league was still adding and adding to those defenseless player rules every offseason. He was just lucky enough to come along before the rules evolved to where they are now.

I think people also forget that PeteBall and Pete was a dinosaur compared to the NFL he returned to. The league was already a passing league. The rules already favored, HEAVILY, QBs and receivers. Go back and look. His run first, tough Defense wasn't thought well of when he started with Seattle. I don't think you'll find many pundits predicting his success back at the beginning. Even when LOB became the LOB, nobody thought style had a snowball's chance in hell to beat the vaunted Bronco's #1 offense that threw the ball all over the place.

So to me, Pete has always been a dinosaur. Using that now as an a reason to fire him holds no water. The one thing that everyone misses in these "how the league has changed" discussions is that one thing has never changed. No matter how good your offense is, you won't win the SB without your defense playing at a top level in the playoffs. Even the Chiefs with Mahomes couldn't get over that hump until their D started playing to level at the end of last year. For me it's all about the D. If Seattle's defense can get to top 10, the offense just has to competent.

I agree with you on a lot of what you wrote. So my mistake it was already geared towards offense when he came in, but I will say they continue to gear that way more and more so the challenge is harder and harder to rely on defense.. Pete was already a dinosaur when he came in and he proved smash mouth football can still work* (If you have an all-world defense with a competent offense). However, how often are you going to ge tthat all-world defense with competent (actually good) offense? Once in a lifetime.

My reason to fire him..I don't want him fired. Is not Pete ball itself, its just lack of MINOR changes. Like he has his script, and it has to play that way every game all season. All game long he's playing by this script and if things don't workout...his belief is...it will workout...and when it doesn't. Being close games maybe even coming from behind and having to get these huge miracle plays when they go prevent D, but if they don't go prevent D and keep pressure on RW It's too late. Like he's seen enough losses of the same nature, where they SHOULD have an option B or C...and the problem is he refuses to try option B or C by half time.

I also agree with you that every SB winner needs top be top10 in defense and your offense better make up the slack depending how you rank on that defense. So for the LOB year...#1 defense, offense was top10. Chiefs last year top 3 offense, top 10 defense. Our Hawks this year...top 5 offense but recently looking like top 10 at best...meanwhile the defense looks like a bottom 3 and just recently middle pack defense. The front office have made the moves that says this is a win-now season (Jamal Trade, you don't do that unless you say...we need to win NOW). Therefore...yes Pete needs to make his adjustments recognizing his defense is middle of the pack at best and if that's the case the offense needs to pick up the slack and they sure as hell can't be looking average or less than average (recently) if the defense is going to be where it's at...it's not going to be top 5. So the offense needs to be top 5 and he's not coaching it that way right now. Pete ball is great...when the team has the talent to make it work, but his team talent isn't built for pete ball it's built to be better on offense with mid pack defense. and the frustration is he's not adapting with his team, he's trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and continues to do so.

I appreciate your thoughtful response and this conversation we're having ..

 

[ZagHawk]

Everything Zaghawk just posted is legit. Its easy to run away from it or lend a blind eye, but its legit nontheless.

I appreciate it. Just like everyone here. I'm passionate about OUR Seahawks. We want them to win and its just frustrating to see the talent there but it's not performing to its potential. I actually love Pete and his philosophy. He's great to listen to, he's very motivational, but watching our Hawks on field and the stumbles being carbon copies of themselves has created my frustrations. It's almost like the popular motto "always compete", Hey Pete...take some of that yourself...you see what some of these other coaches are bringing into the league with creativity....COMPETE. Or does it only apply between the starters and the back ups?

The Rams and Niners game will be the most telling game of what our Hawks our this season. At the end of the day we all root for the Seahawks. Well except for Morgan =P

 

[ZagHawk]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here. I would respectfully agree that it's time to move on from Pete Carroll. The league has evolved quite a bit since the 2012-2015 Legion of Boom Days.

Especially this season, I've noticed that his stubbornness to make in-game adjustments, questionable play calling and lack of accountability from himself, Russ or any of the coaches has resulted in a consistent and rapid decline of this team. Every year, the Seattle Seahawks have gotten progressively worse. Since Superbowl 49, we have drafted poorly, made some huge trades with little payoff and ultimately, it continues to hurt this team. Not all the blame falls on his shoulders. The game against the Giants had a lot to do with Wilson's poor play as well amongst a lot of . He consistently takes the sack instead of throwing the ball out of bounds amongst other things.

My main disagreement is with a lot of the posters who claim that fans should be happy with having a winning record. Being one and done in the playoffs is not something to be content with. The goal should be to win the Superbowl not to make it to the playoffs. Merely making it to the playoffs only to exit early makes you no better than a team that didn't make it to the playoffs. The end result is the same thing: You didn't win the Lombardi.

Carroll's failure to make in-game and coaching adjustments will continue to hurt this team. Not holding his coaches accountable like KNJ will only result in the same outcome of a historically bad defense. If we can't change the head coach, the head coach needs to adapt to the league and not be so stuck in his ways and refuse to acknowledge the consistent weaknesses of the team.

ok so my questions to you..

Explain how you think the league has evolved since the legion of boom days... what brings you to that conclusion and what information do you have that backs that up?

explain why you think Carroll has a lack of accountability from himself and How do you back that up?

Explain why you think the Hawks have drafted poorly and tell me which GM has drafted better picking from the bottom 10 of the league for the last 11 years?

Explain what information you have that Carroll does not hold his coaches accountable...what article do you have that backs that up? do you have inside information to back up that claim?



LTH

Happily

- The LOB Seahawks actually sparked the NFL to change its rules on defense to help make offenses more successful. WHY (OMG CONSPIRACY THEORY, but it's true). Because there is too much money in fantasy football, offensive stats, and lets be real...scoring points on offense is entertaining and gets more eyes on TV. Have you noticed that teams are scoring more and more points its not just the "offensive geniuses" of the new coaching like McVay etc.... Its because they made lives harder for the defenses. Every little thing the LOB used to excel at which was literally molesting everyone on the field to borderline "where's my holding or pass interference call?!?" cry by opposing fans...is now actually being called by the officials. The reviewable pass interference which was tried for one year was a step in that direction, but it slowed the game too much. However, it does show the intention of the NFL...they want points on the board...not off of it. The NFL was drooling for Mahomes and the offense to win the SB last year and KILL the motto "defense wins championships". The highest scoring offense in history got destroyed by our Hawks, and since then everything the NFL has done was to cater to offense not defense. So yes...one huge portion of the NFL evolving right there which means you better evolve with it.

- Petes lack of accountability. Since SB 49 he had the time to admit passing the ball was the wrong call. He was asked about it and he said, the stats said he should do it. Hed make the same call. You think i'm full of it. We all know how much the LOB all felt he took zero accountability for that and from that moment forward the Seahawks and the LOB stopped playing for each other and started playing for their paychecks. There's been enough reports out there of leaks from the locker room they all felt he took zero accountability for how that went. Also everytime they lose in similar fashion hell even this last game "oh the chunk plays werent there". That's not accountability...that's just saying your crap didnt work out like u planned. You made no adjustments after realizing the 3rd 4th, 5th and 6th time ur deep pass hail mary bombs dont work against good defenses ready for how the Hawks come from behind. He has so much faith that things wil work which can be great, has been grreat, but when they dont he just says oh they werent' there...theres no accountability of yes..i should have realized it wasnt working and switched game plans mid way through..option B, or C...its option A or bust.

- I havent mentioned drafts, but okay lets go there. The hawks hit FIRE in 2010-2012 drafting. Since then...who have they got of worthy mention in the last 6 years, i wont count last year because ill give it a year. Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf. Maybe Carson but lets also face it...for as amazing as he is ON the field...he sure as hell isn;t doing anything when hes injured as well. injuries cant be predicted BUT you are a result of your drafting and how many O line busts have we had, Mcdowell? etc. Trading the first round draft picks for high paid people who didnt work in this system or were injured a lot (Harvin and Graham). Outside of the Duane Brown trade, DK Metcalf and tyler lockett...that's 3 players in 6 years of drafting...maybe Carson (if he stayed on the field for at least 3/4s of a season)...Hawks have been drafting/trading below average for the last 6 years. A decent team will find ONE probowl calber player every other draft...DRAFT not trade. because trade u gave up ur cheap rookies at probowl potential for a veteran player at veteran pay for a pro bowl name...and once someone gets injured you lack depth and here we are again crying about injuries for losses. There were injuries in the LOB years no one made those excuses because they had depth because no one was high paid.

- Got you here. How long was Cable and Bevell still coaching before they finally got fired and everyone and their grand mother could see they couldn't coach/help draft an O-line worth a damn nor make the offense work. The LOB and Marshawn Lynch won those games, not Bevell but oh he was OC during those years he mus tbe the reason for their success...why change anything. KNJ the DC right now up until really last game (defense showed up, offense did not) has looked like hot garbage and pretty much all of last year. They had a come to jesus moment when they had 2 losses in a row where they got everyone in a room to talk about their roles and expectations. Jesus Christ week 10 is when they did that? not week 3? when they were already establishing themselves as THE WORST PASSING DEFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL!!!! already coming off a weak as defensive showing all of last season...

What have you got? other than just saying you dont know the inside info, you don't know their philosophies...once again i dont need to know their philosophies to see it's not working. The proof is in the pudding. Do I need to know how an engine works to know the car has an issue because one of the wheels is wobbling yet the driver wont get out and do something about it? At this point A LARGE majority of Seahawks fans are seeing the same thing I'm seeing and we're frustrated because "in pete we trust" for the last few years we saw the expected decline of a SB contender, then suddenly rather than a rise its a flat line of same old same old (9-11 win season with 1st or second round exit in the playoffs). Show me? in the last 6 years...have the hawks out performed that outcome? have they ACTUALLY shown anything that says they will this year or the next? what in the coaching and gameplans and drafting have you seen that says they will get over that 9-11 win, 1st/2nd round playoff exit level?

If they make it to the NFCCG this year, ill eat crow. When do you eat yours?

I don't waste my time on people like you.... You will argue a point you don't understand even if for some miraculous reason you figured out that you were wrong, you would still argue the same point... what a joke...

LTH

Happy Holidays to you and your family.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

ZagHawk,

I appreciate the time you took to address your points when you were called out by LTH.

Even if LTH does not agree or recognize your points, other posters here do.

I am also frustrated with Carroll and the division among this board befuddles me as there are many here that are content with a team “good enough” to go to playoffs but when Seattle does lose, the game isn’t all that competitive.

The playoff game against the Packers last year was a fine example of this. Seattle and their coaching staff were ill prepared and did not make any adjustments when the time allowed and the momentum of the game was one-sided favoring the Packers a majority of the game.

This frustrates fans since this happens a lot and Carroll does not seem to take responsibility for lapses in management.

I do appreciate your post, ZagHawk and I thank you for taking your time to address them even if others here will look past them and ignore it.

I hope it gets better for us!

Cheers!

 

[oldhawkfan]

ZagHawk,

I appreciate the time you took to address your points when you were called out by LTH.

Even if LTH does not agree or recognize your points, other posters here do.

I am also frustrated with Carroll and the division among this board befuddles me as there are many here that are content with a team “good enough” to go to playoffs but when Seattle does lose, the game isn’t all that competitive.

The playoff game against the Packers last year was a fine example of this. Seattle and their coaching staff were ill prepared and did not make any adjustments when the time allowed and the momentum of the game was one-sided favoring the Packers a majority of the game.

This frustrates fans since this happens a lot and Carroll does not seem to take responsibility for lapses in management.

I do appreciate your post, ZagHawk and I thank you for taking your time to address them even if others here will look past them and ignore it.

I hope it gets better for us!

Cheers!

when Seattle does lose, the game isn’t all that competitive.
What?!?! How many losses in the Pete Carroll era have been non competetive? What was the NFL record streak of not losing a game by double digits?

Seattle and their coaching staff were ill prepared and did not make any adjustments when the time allowed and the momentum of the game was one-sided favoring the Packers a majority of the game
If I remember that game correctly, at RB the Seahawks were down to Travis Homer, the recently signed Marshawn Lynch and Robert Turbin. The running game was an absolute non factor no matter how much they might have tried. Injuries just plain depleted them of any real competetivness.

 

[onepicknick1]

I think it still comes back to:

Who would you rather have?

Jim Harbaugh Let Jim Cook

 

[ZagHawk]

ZagHawk,

I appreciate the time you took to address your points when you were called out by LTH.

Even if LTH does not agree or recognize your points, other posters here do.

I am also frustrated with Carroll and the division among this board befuddles me as there are many here that are content with a team “good enough” to go to playoffs but when Seattle does lose, the game isn’t all that competitive.

The playoff game against the Packers last year was a fine example of this. Seattle and their coaching staff were ill prepared and did not make any adjustments when the time allowed and the momentum of the game was one-sided favoring the Packers a majority of the game.

This frustrates fans since this happens a lot and Carroll does not seem to take responsibility for lapses in management.

I do appreciate your post, ZagHawk and I thank you for taking your time to address them even if others here will look past them and ignore it.

I hope it gets better for us!

Cheers!

Much appreciated. I am very passionate. I want to see our Hawks win and go back to being more than good. 2012-2013 was so fantastic but the way it ended in 2014 im sure we all feel need something to almost put that out of our heads...which is another SB win. I feel like that's what Broncos fans needed after SB 48 when they won in SB 50.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

ZagHawk,

I appreciate the time you took to address your points when you were called out by LTH.

Even if LTH does not agree or recognize your points, other posters here do.

I am also frustrated with Carroll and the division among this board befuddles me as there are many here that are content with a team “good enough” to go to playoffs but when Seattle does lose, the game isn’t all that competitive.

The playoff game against the Packers last year was a fine example of this. Seattle and their coaching staff were ill prepared and did not make any adjustments when the time allowed and the momentum of the game was one-sided favoring the Packers a majority of the game.

This frustrates fans since this happens a lot and Carroll does not seem to take responsibility for lapses in management.

I do appreciate your post, ZagHawk and I thank you for taking your time to address them even if others here will look past them and ignore it.

I hope it gets better for us!

Cheers!

when Seattle does lose, the game isn’t all that competitive.
What?!?! How many losses in the Pete Carroll era have been non competetive? What was the NFL record streak of not losing a game by double digits?

Seattle and their coaching staff were ill prepared and did not make any adjustments when the time allowed and the momentum of the game was one-sided favoring the Packers a majority of the game
If I remember that game correctly, at RB the Seahawks were down to Travis Homer, the recently signed Marshawn Lynch and Robert Turbin. The running game was an absolute non factor no matter how much they might have tried. Injuries just plain depleted them of any real competetivness.

I game can be out of reach and non competitive by the body language you see on the field.

Last week was a prime example how out of the game Seattle really was.

They were disinterested, and check out mentally.

That playoff game against the Packers did not show a sense of urgency and nothing was being done to adjust defensively to stop Davantae Adams from shredding Seattle. They didn’t roll any help to Trey Flowers side and Adams was just doing anything he wanted too.

That’s all game planning and adjustments that needed to be made during the game and is also another example of Carroll being unable to make any in game adjustments and changes.

Why a majority of people here aren’t sick of it, I don’t know.

Seattle did lose all their running backs and that happens but at least make some defensive changes.

What excuse do they have to not do that?

But, hey, at least Seattle went to playoffs, right! And that’s enough all the time now! (Sarcasm)

Feel free to disagree.

I’m pretty much over the division within this board and the failure to see that Carroll’s system is flawed and he cannot advance deeper in playoffs anymore.