It's time to start talking about benching Wilson.

[ZagHawk]

The people who make the decisions need to have a REAL convo over the future of this franchise.

If RW is NOT part of the future, then play him so hopefully he can show signs of some improvement and have more trade value (unless he is unwilling to play for his own safety)

If Shane is really running the offense his way and it looks like this, then hard convo to start making adjustments and see what works.

If Shane is being handcuffed, then hard convo to let Shane "cook" and see what that looks like the remainder of the season and determine whether or not he is the future.

There's a lot of things going on that no one knows the full truth in EITHER direction of who really has the reigns or not, or perhaps it's a huge cluster **** and everyone is taking the reigns at different times as well.

 

[keasley45]

You can't bench Wilson, you have to hope his play improves enough to maximize his trade value next off season.

That's where we're at. Season's over, time to start planning for next year, and next year is going to be Russell Wilson-less. So play him despite him deserving to be benched in the hopes he plays better to get the most picks possible.

I see your point but what happens if he doesn't play better? Then where is your trade value? I'm not advocating to not play Russ necessarily, I'm just asking the question..

on the flip side if Carroll play's Geno and gives Russ a chance to heal that does 3 things

1. Gives Russ a chance to heal and be right again

2. It gives less chance of Russ ruining his trade value

3. it puts Russ in position to be in competition for his job which might be the thing that snaps him out of his predicament

or #4 It pisses Russ off and he requests a trade or leaves when his contract is up


I'm not advocating for any one solution I'm just thinking it out...

thoughts?


LTH

IMO the risk is greater if we're talking about trade value in benching Russ now vs letting him try to work through whatever's going on with him, and hope he improves enough to show other GM's that he's worth the risk in a big trade deal.

Benching him even a couple games isn't going to help anything, unless the team's hiding a more serious finger issue than we're being told.

Either way, I can't see any scenario where Pete benches Russell. We're already out of the playoffs, Pete's going to be loyal to Russell and allow him a chance to improve.

Right now everyone can fool themselves into thinking it's all just about his finger. You let him try to work through it and if he's playing the same way in 2 weeks, the cat will be out of the bag and his value will plummet. It's a simple question of whether you think his issue is fixable. From what I've seen there's little evidence that it is.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Right now everyone can fool themselves into thinking it's all just about his finger. You let him try to work through it and if he's playing the same way in 2 weeks, the cat will be out of the bag and his value will plummet. It's a simple question of whether you think his issue is fixable. From what I've seen there's little evidence that it is.

Oh as I've said many times today, it's certainly more than Russ' finger. He's a broken shook lost QB right now.

But the only way to assure maximum trade value is to hope he works through whatever he's going through and improves enough, stays healthy so we can get as much as we can in a trade.

Benching him assures the bottom of his trade value, because GM's will only have what Russ is putting on film now, which is really really bad.

 

[LTH]

You can't bench Wilson, you have to hope his play improves enough to maximize his trade value next off season.

That's where we're at. Season's over, time to start planning for next year, and next year is going to be Russell Wilson-less. So play him despite him deserving to be benched in the hopes he plays better to get the most picks possible.

I see your point but what happens if he doesn't play better? Then where is your trade value? I'm not advocating to not play Russ necessarily, I'm just asking the question..

on the flip side if Carroll play's Geno and gives Russ a chance to heal that does 3 things

1. Gives Russ a chance to heal and be right again

2. It gives less chance of Russ ruining his trade value

3. it puts Russ in position to be in competition for his job which might be the thing that snaps him out of his predicament

or #4 It pisses Russ off and he requests a trade or leaves when his contract is up


I'm not advocating for any one solution I'm just thinking it out...

thoughts?


LTH

IMO the risk is greater if we're talking about trade value in benching Russ now vs letting him try to work through whatever's going on with him, and hope he improves enough to show other GM's that he's worth the risk in a big trade deal.

Benching him even a couple games isn't going to help anything, unless the team's hiding a more serious finger issue than we're being told.

Either way, I can't see any scenario where Pete benches Russell. We're already out of the playoffs, Pete's going to be loyal to Russell and allow him a chance to improve.

Right now everyone can fool themselves into thinking it's all just about his finger. You let him try to work through it and if he's playing the same way in 2 weeks, the cat will be out of the bag and his value will plummet. It's a simple question of whether you think his issue is fixable. From what I've seen there's little evidence that it is.

I don't think its just about his finger I think that's part of it... but i think there are multiple issues... I would have to say after thinking about it that Seattle's successful run game when they had Marshawn PROBABLY masked the read issues we have been talking about .... But I don't think Carroll is stupid I think he probably knew about the issues but all of that is speculation... with out a great run game Seattle's O doesn't work.. lets face it some of those 3rd down conversions were not made by the run game definitely I can remember two off the top of my head. one with Collins and one with Dallas...

Of course the issue is fixable.. the question in my mind is Russ willing to fix it. the other question is is it his ego thats getting in the way or does he really have an issue with not being able to mentally make the reads.. I can make a strong case for both... and maybe it is both but I just don't know...

LTH

 

[toffee]

Laughing my ass off at people thinking RW is the problem. Is his play a problem? Of course. But he's playing like crap for a reason, and it's not because he all of a sudden is a subpar QB.

But I digress, when he's off winning MVP awards with another team, I'll be revisiting some of these posts...book it.

Which team or which coach can lift Russ up where he belong, where eagles cry, up where the clear winds blow? We 12s must help Russ to reach his destiny.

 

[xray]

Play the bench...why not ?

 

[Keyhawk]

Yes, there are many good reasons to bench Wilson at this point. But it's not going to happen.

 

[12th And Loud]

The people who make the decisions need to have a REAL convo over the future of this franchise.

If RW is NOT part of the future, then play him so hopefully he can show signs of some improvement and have more trade value (unless he is unwilling to play for his own safety)

If Shane is really running the offense his way and it looks like this, then hard convo to start making adjustments and see what works.

If Shane is being handcuffed, then hard convo to let Shane "cook" and see what that looks like the remainder of the season and determine whether or not he is the future.

There's a lot of things going on that no one knows the full truth in EITHER direction of who really has the reigns or not, or perhaps it's a huge cluster f*** and everyone is taking the reigns at different times as well.

Real decisions are going to be tough with the cap situation and the lack of draft capital the past two years. The 5th pick in the draft is just walking away to another team. SMH.

 

[LTH]

Play the bench...why not ?

Ill tell ya why because this team hasn't given up. It's obvious if you listen to Carrols PC. Carroll seems to think Russ just needs to play and get his rhythm back... maybe he is right... we will see vs the 49ers

Im really hoping we see a "holy crap Wilson is back game" vs the Niners


LTH

 

[SoulfishHawk]

That 2 minute drive def. looked more like what we are used to seeing. But this team in general is a total crap show.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Play the bench...why not ?

Ill tell ya why because this team hasn't given up. It's obvious if you listen to Carrols PC. Carroll seems to think Russ just needs to play and get his rhythm back... maybe he is right... we will see vs the 49ers

Im really hoping we see a "holy crap Wilson is back game" vs the Niners


LTH

As long as his finger is healed to the point that that the only risk is a new injury and no risk of re-injuring the repair, he's gonna play. I'm assuming that's why the doctors cleared him. The only way he gets pulled now is if he totally melts down and has a 3 pick quarter or something crazy

 

[RiverDog]

I don't think it's physical at all. His head isn't right. IMO David Carr syndrome has set in, and the finger injury is messing with his timing, decision making, and mechanics.

Carroll is in a pickle. Damned if he benches him (Geno.....really?), damned if he doesn't (DK and locker room knows Russ isn't right), and last but not least, if they do want to move on from Russ, they need to let him play through it and raise value.

Well put.

However, you're making the assumption that Russell playing out the year would raise his trade value. There's a very good chance that he'll continue to struggle, which would have the opposite effect.

 

[LTH]

I don't think it's physical at all. His head isn't right. IMO David Carr syndrome has set in, and the finger injury is messing with his timing, decision making, and mechanics.

Carroll is in a pickle. Damned if he benches him (Geno.....really?), damned if he doesn't (DK and locker room knows Russ isn't right), and last but not least, if they do want to move on from Russ, they need to let him play through it and raise value.

Well put.

However, you're making the assumption that Russell playing out the year would raise his trade value. There's a very good chance that he'll continue to struggle, which would have the opposite effect.

Thats true... but he is going to play it out according to Pete. I just wish I knew why Wilson might be struggling mentally. I have a hard time believing it's because of a losing streak or anything that the media says... I think there is more going on than we know...but I can't prove it.


LTH

 

[RiverDog]

Thats true... but he is going to play it out according to Pete. I just wish I knew why Wilson might be struggling mentally. I have a hard time believing it's because of a losing streak or anything that the media says... I think there is more going on than we know...but I can't prove it.


LTH

I'm not necessarily in agreement, but here's what one of the guys over in the other Seahawks forum I frequent had to say about the subject:

Looking at Russell’s performance it’s clear he his head is not in the game. 1st game of the season pretty good performance. After that Russell has fallen off a cliff. As much as Wilson professed his mental awareness and his mental coach and friend Trevor Moawab I wonder if Trevor’s death in mid September has anything to do with the mental decline in Russell’s game. If Trevor had that much influence on Russell’s metal health and conditioning this could be a factor in what we see now, indecisiveness, no eye of the tiger, listless, etc. Not saying Trevor’s death is the sole reason, but throw in the off season turmoil, injury, and the poor record this year it looks like it’s more than Russell can handle. Not making excuses for Russell, just making an observation.

And my response:

I hadn't heard that, but I doubt that's a reason for his performance decline. Russell's had to cope with tragedy before. He lost his dad back in 2010 at an early age.

And another poster's comments:

Great point. RD, to your skepticism because Wilson has dealt with tragedy before, the reason I think ******* might be on to something is because Trevor acted like a sports psychologist during the weeks. I don't think it's the tragedy aspect that could be eating at Wilson, but more the loss of the very person who he'd go to when his game is in a funk.

Russell does look and sound different, but my first guess would be that it has to do with his injury and our losing and not something deeper or more personal. But who knows.

 

[LTH]

well, I was more thinking being the team is 3-8 maybe there is a problem in the locker room... but that's all speculation...I can't imagine a team that has the expectations that the Hawks have for this season and there be no tension in the locker room and the fact that Russ is struggling the way he is just makes me wonder more.



LTH

 

[RiverDog]

well, I was more thinking being the team is 3-8 maybe there is a problem in the locker room... but that's all speculation...I can't imagine a team that has the expectations that the Hawks have for this season and there be no tension in the locker room and the fact that Russ is struggling the way he is just makes me wonder more.



LTH

Oh, I agree. I'm not sure if Russell has ever gone through a similar stretch in his career, professional or college. It's definitely a character-building experience.

 

[LTH]

well, I was more thinking being the team is 3-8 maybe there is a problem in the locker room... but that's all speculation...I can't imagine a team that has the expectations that the Hawks have for this season and there be no tension in the locker room and the fact that Russ is struggling the way he is just makes me wonder more.



LTH

Oh, I agree. I'm not sure if Russell has ever gone through a similar stretch in his career, professional or college. It's definitely a character-building experience.

Thats the point I keep trying to say to everyone Greatness is built from working through adversity. If Russ wants to be great, he will work through it... and Carroll will give him the chance to do that where other coaches might not.

Same goes for Carroll he has some adversity to work through and let's see how he handles that... this will tell us where he is at in his coaching career, and it might just tell Carroll where he is at if he looks at it honestly. things just need to play out.


LTH

 

[RiverDog]

Oh, I agree. I'm not sure if Russell has ever gone through a similar stretch in his career, professional or college. It's definitely a character-building experience.

Thats the point I keep trying to say to everyone Greatness is built from working through adversity. If Russ wants to be great, he will work through it... and Carroll will give him the chance to do that where other coaches might not.

The problem for Carroll is that his job is first and foremost to win football games. Assisting a player to achieve greatness, except as it relates to the team's success, is secondary. If benching Wilson will give us the best chance of winning, than Russell needs to hit the pine. He should be treated like any other player that is under performing.

Same goes for Carroll he has some adversity to work through and let's see how he handles that... this will tell us where he is at in his coaching career, and it might just tell Carroll where he is at if he looks at it honestly. things just need to play out.


LTH

I've lost my patience with Pete and am unwilling to give him more time to "work through the adversity and see how he handles it." I want him out.

 

[keasley45]

Oh, I agree. I'm not sure if Russell has ever gone through a similar stretch in his career, professional or college. It's definitely a character-building experience.

Thats the point I keep trying to say to everyone Greatness is built from working through adversity. If Russ wants to be great, he will work through it... and Carroll will give him the chance to do that where other coaches might not.

The problem for Carroll is that his job is first and foremost to win football games. Assisting a player to achieve greatness, except as it relates to the team's success, is secondary. If benching Wilson will give us the best chance of winning, than Russell needs to hit the pine. He should be treated like any other player that is under performing.

Same goes for Carroll he has some adversity to work through and let's see how he handles that... this will tell us where he is at in his coaching career, and it might just tell Carroll where he is at if he looks at it honestly. things just need to play out.


LTH

I've lost my patience with Pete and am unwilling to give him more time to "work through the adversity and see how he handles it." I want him out.

I 100% agree with that frustration. i think Pete is a great coach. And he walks a very fine line of supporting players as players and humans. And when it works, we win superbowls. He handpicked the players that got us there and motivated them in a way that has been recognized as unique across the league. It DOES work. But i think if you dont have a certain edge to you in leading that way, you develop a blindspot for harder strategies for motivation. Russ is the posterchild on offense for the player that Pete's handled too softly, erring in the side of supporting his psyche with positive critique, but failing to stick a foot up his A$$ enough to make it clear he has to improve.

A player like Tre Flowers is an example on the other side of the ball. Pete never managed him in a firm way. Always positive and highlighting the things he did well rather than point blank addressing the issues in an open way.

I say all of this not knowing what conversations go on behind closed doors.

And i dont think Pete is a soft coach. He just subscribes to a certain way of inspring positive growth. Matt Hasselbeck is even on record as saying Pete wasnt a 'soft' player and had very clear rules that he enforced without exception.

I think he has just extended too long a leash in some cases and with certain players, to the detriment of the team... and likely the player he thought he was helping.

But you have to be careful with gross indictments of the approach because no way of doing a thing is 100% right all the time. Look at Bill Belichik. He was hammered for how he managed Brady - too hard. toomuch like any everyday player. Fnas wanted him out after Brady left, NE struggled, and Brady won a championship. Yet, it took him one year to turn the franchise around with a rookie qb and now theyre wt the top of the division again.

And he admits that he regrets how he handled Brady.

He was wrong, but overall his approach is right.

I think the same might be true with Pete.

 

[scutterhawk]

In ACTUALITY, no one here, or anywhere else for that matter KNOWS for a FACT what goes on behind the scenes.
It's not like a one size fits all, like everyone assumes it should be.
Most, if not ALL in here THINK they have a better idea on why the wheels seem to be coming off, than Pete, or even Wilson does. :141847_bnono: