KC Joyner Trolling: "Pats will have best secondary in 2014"

[BlueTalon]

IIRC, the Atlanta playoff loss was largely on him too.

 

[RolandDeschain]

IIRC, the Atlanta playoff loss was largely on him too.

No, that was far more on the stupid offensive play calling in the first half.

 

[Sarlacc83]

IIRC, the Atlanta playoff loss was largely on him too.

No, that was far more on the stupid offensive play calling in the first half.

No, it was on the inability of Seattle to stop Mike Turner because Chris Clemons was out with his ACL tear. The Falcons were able to go to run and pass, instead of playing to Seattle's strengths, not even to mention the lack of pass rush. ( I know you want to diss Bevell, like, all day, but he called a fine game. It's too easy to forget Marshawn's goal line fumble when you have your scapegoat.)

The Colts loss is all on Browner. Luck threw at him all day and he gave up a lot of receptions. Same thing late in the season. Teams targeted him. And it showed. He provides a lot of physicality at the line but in coverage he was a liability.

I'll always be grateful for what he did for us and remember him fondly for setting the pace for the LOB. And I'm glad he got paid. He deserves it.

But we all know Maxwell was a big upgrade in coverage and that's why the Seahawks let him walk.

This. If Seattle played the Patriots in the Super Bowl, it's all go routes for Richardson vs. Browner all day.

 

[Anonymous]

They gotta write something to get the east coast fans to buy some tickets.

 

[Sports Hernia]

IIRC, the Atlanta playoff loss was largely on him too.

No, that was far more on the stupid offensive play calling in the first half.

I know some won't want to hear this but Gus crapped the bed with his defensive play calling/scheme on the last Atlanta drive by going into zone/prevent when all they need is a FG to beat you.

 

[gulliver]

Sorry you wasted your money on an insider subscription.

Actually I get Insider for (a) the Magazine and (b) college football recruiting news (Georgia Bulldogs, mainly).

I'm a Seattle native and love the Hawks (already have a few away games on the docket this year), but actually caught this article minutes after it was posted while looking for the Brazil/Germany score.

Normally I ignore the half-4ssed controversial twaddle, but this one was flat out trolling, which is a new low for ESPN. A lot of people here think journos are out to get the Hawks, and sometimes they'll bait us, but this one was next level. I clicked through to read just to check out the firestorm of Seahawk comments... :twisted:

 

[RolandDeschain]

No, it was on the inability of Seattle to stop Mike Turner because Chris Clemons was out with his ACL tear. The Falcons were able to go to run and pass, instead of playing to Seattle's strengths, not even to mention the lack of pass rush. ( I know you want to diss Bevell, like, all day, but he called a fine game. It's too easy to forget Marshawn's goal line fumble when you have your scapegoat.)

I love how you seem to think losing Clemons on Seattle's defense affected our offense's performance against a rather average Atlanta defense. Pray tell, what offensive position was Clemons playing for the Seahawks in 2012 that made that difference? I don't understand how you can post that intelligent and accurate post a bit ago about confirmation bias and such, then sit here and correlate us losing Clemons with our inability to do ANYTHING on offense in the first half of that game. The offensive tape from the All-22 footage of that game is markedly different in the second half compared to the first.

 

[Sarlacc83]

No, it was on the inability of Seattle to stop Mike Turner because Chris Clemons was out with his ACL tear. The Falcons were able to go to run and pass, instead of playing to Seattle's strengths, not even to mention the lack of pass rush. ( I know you want to diss Bevell, like, all day, but he called a fine game. It's too easy to forget Marshawn's goal line fumble when you have your scapegoat.)

I love how you seem to think losing Clemons on Seattle's defense affected our offense's performance against a rather average Atlanta defense. Pray tell, what offensive position was Clemons playing for the Seahawks in 2012 that made that difference? I don't understand how you can post that intelligent and accurate post a bit ago about confirmation bias and such, then sit here and correlate us losing Clemons with our inability to do ANYTHING on offense in the first half of that game. The offensive tape from the All-22 footage of that game is markedly different in the second half compared to the first.

Because I'm saying your hypothesis is wrong. It's like you read poorly on purpose.

Also, every Seattle fan should know by now that Seattle is run first, smash mouth football. So play calling was fine, and when it didn't work, they made adjustments.

If not for the defense always being on the field, due to the bad run defense, Seattle doesn't give up 30 points, and they win going away. Maybe the running game even kicks in after Seattle gets what they want a la the NFCCG game against SF when Marshawn's busted a big run.

 

[twisted_steel2]

 

[RolandDeschain]

Because I wasn't equating the two? Hence the parenthetical. It's like you read poorly on purpose.

Also, every Seattle fam should know by now that Seattle is run first, smash mouth football. So play calling was fine, and when it didn't work, they made adjustments.

If not for the defense always being on the field, due to the bad run defense, Seattle doesn't give up 30 points, and they win going away. Maybe the running game even kicks in after Seattle gets what they want a la the NFCCG game against SF when Marshawn's busted a big run.

Scroll up. BlueTalon said "IIRC, the Atlanta playoff loss was largely on him too." in response to HansGruber's statement about Browner. I said the loss is on Bevell far more than Browner. You then started talking about Clemons. MY point was that Browner was a minor contributor to our loss in Atlanta. Missing Clemons was definitely far more critical to our defense not stopping Atlanta than anything relating to Browner that day. Bevell knew our one and only source of pressuring the passer was out, and what'd he do? Started off trying the same old conservative "let our defense carry the day" offensive approach for the first half, and it cost us the game. Sure, our defense deserves blame as well, but we KNEW we'd have no pass rush heading in. Bradley deserves some blame as well for the soft zone at the end of games tendencies.

Reading comprehension is the problem here, but it's not mine that is the issue...

 

[Sarlacc83]

My reading comprehension seems to be doing fine. You proffered your normal scapegoat; I pointed out the real underlying issue. Which you can't accept, because you have a confirmation bias against Bevell. It all comes around doesn't it?

 

[RolandDeschain]

My reading comprehension seems to be doing fine. You proffered your normal scapegoat; I pointed out the real underlying issue you can't accept, because you have a confirmation bias against Bevell.

You have a confirmation bias in favor of him.

 

[Sarlacc83]

My reading comprehension seems to be doing fine. You proffered your normal scapegoat; I pointed out the real underlying issue you can't accept, because you have a confirmation bias against Bevell.

You have a confirmation bias in favor of him.

I'm more than willing to point out his flaws when I see them. I just don't see them everywhere because I understand Carroll's offensive philosophy. Hence, I don't resort to easy scapegoats. You should try the same some time. It'd do you good.

Edit: If we're going to have this conversation again, you still owe me a list of 5 better offensive coordinators.

 

[Hawks46]

I hate to say it, cuz we all love BB, but he's gonna have to face Mike Wallace twice now... We'll see how far this pats secondary thing goes after they get a glimpse of that matchup

It's funny, because I thought the exact same thing. If Browner retains the speed he had with us, players like Wallace isn't the kind of player that actually would give him trouble.

Fasy, SHIFTY (quick) guys gave BB trouble, as he couldn't get his hands on them as easily at the line of scrimmage. Wallace is actually pretty big....6'1" or so and 210 lbs I believe. If Browner gets his hands on Wallace at the los, it's over for Wallace. Wallace also only runs one route very well, and that's easy to defend if you know how.

Also, teams with Revis on them tend to move Revis with the #1 WR. If that's Wallace, Revis might move around for him.

I do agree with one of the other posters: they're going to have good stats in that secondary as they aren't going up against any really good passing attacks in their division. Jets and Bills are actually pretty bad through the air and Miami ranks below average.

Revis could come back and be better than Sherman if they use him in a scheme that plays to his strengths (like we do with Sherm) and he comes back 100% healthy. I don't see Browner coming back and being better than Maxwell (unless something happens to BMax health wise), and even then, I can see Simon coming out and being just as good. Even if BB and BMax/Simon are equal and Revis ends up edging Sherm, they still don't have the Safety tandem that we do, so the article is crap just on that premise right there.

We have the best Safety tandem in the league, and it really isn't that close. New Orleans probably will come in second, but it surely won't be the Pats. So they lose right there.

 

[sc85sis]

Because I wasn't equating the two? Hence the parenthetical. It's like you read poorly on purpose.

Also, every Seattle fam should know by now that Seattle is run first, smash mouth football. So play calling was fine, and when it didn't work, they made adjustments.

If not for the defense always being on the field, due to the bad run defense, Seattle doesn't give up 30 points, and they win going away. Maybe the running game even kicks in after Seattle gets what they want a la the NFCCG game against SF when Marshawn's busted a big run.

Scroll up. BlueTalon said "IIRC, the Atlanta playoff loss was largely on him too." in response to HansGruber's statement about Browner. I said the loss is on Bevell far more than Browner. You then started talking about Clemons. MY point was that Browner was a minor contributor to our loss in Atlanta. Missing Clemons was definitely far more critical to our defense not stopping Atlanta than anything relating to Browner that day. Bevell knew our one and only source of pressuring the passer was out, and what'd he do? Started off trying the same old conservative "let our defense carry the day" offensive approach for the first half, and it cost us the game. Sure, our defense deserves blame as well, but we KNEW we'd have no pass rush heading in. Bradley deserves some blame as well for the soft zone at the end of games tendencies.

Reading comprehension is the problem here, but it's not mine that is the issue...

It was a team loss. The offense didn't perform well in the first half. The defense couldn't hold at the end of the game. We had no pass rush besides Clemons and with him out the D wasn't nearly as good. Bevell could have called a better first half. Bradley and Pete could have been more aggressive at the end of the game. Pete could have not tried to ice the kicker (or whatever actually went on there).

If, if, if... We lost. We made up for it in 2013.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I'm more than willing to point out his flaws when I see them. I just don't see them everywhere because I understand Carroll's offensive philosophy. Hence, I don't resort to easy scapegoats. You should try the same some time. It'd do you good.

Edit: If we're going to have this conversation again, you still owe me a list of 5 better offensive coordinators.

I suppose next you're going to claim that I've never given him credit, even though I specifically did for the game he called in the Super Bowl. Talk down to me all you want, but I'd be cautious about your assumptions regarding how unilaterally correct you are on the subject.

 

[Anonymous]

:thcoffee:

I give some blame to a knock-kneed Browner for the loss at Indy, but mostly I blame TY Hilton and Andrew Luck.

I give some blame to Clemons' injury, and the resultant loss of defensive continuity, but mostly I blame Tony Gonzales and a certain practice kick/time-out gaffe for the loss at Atlanta.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

This numbnuts was on 710 ESPN earlier and he actually said that he would rather have New England's secondary over the Hawks if they were going against the Bronco's. Um, the Pats just got slaughtered by the Bronco's in the playoffs, right before the Hawks held them to 8 points.
Crack kills.

 

[jlwaters1]

Because I wasn't equating the two? Hence the parenthetical. It's like you read poorly on purpose.

Also, every Seattle fam should know by now that Seattle is run first, smash mouth football. So play calling was fine, and when it didn't work, they made adjustments.

If not for the defense always being on the field, due to the bad run defense, Seattle doesn't give up 30 points, and they win going away. Maybe the running game even kicks in after Seattle gets what they want a la the NFCCG game against SF when Marshawn's busted a big run.

Scroll up. BlueTalon said "IIRC, the Atlanta playoff loss was largely on him too." in response to HansGruber's statement about Browner. I said the loss is on Bevell far more than Browner. You then started talking about Clemons. MY point was that Browner was a minor contributor to our loss in Atlanta. Missing Clemons was definitely far more critical to our defense not stopping Atlanta than anything relating to Browner that day. Bevell knew our one and only source of pressuring the passer was out, and what'd he do? Started off trying the same old conservative "let our defense carry the day" offensive approach for the first half, and it cost us the game. Sure, our defense deserves blame as well, but we KNEW we'd have no pass rush heading in. Bradley deserves some blame as well for the soft zone at the end of games tendencies.

Reading comprehension is the problem here, but it's not mine that is the issue...

Roland with all due respect I think your point is entirely incorrect. Bevell Didn't ruin the offense in the first half. He didn't play conservative. Go back and watch the game (I just did) there were a number of mishaps and blunders that resulted in no points that half

1st QTR- 3 drives totaling 5:10 TOP, 7-dropbacks, 6-runs, 6- passes (1 run= a Wilson scramble)- 3 First down and the most devastating play of the quarter a Marshawn Lynch Fumble after crossing midfield. Crossed midfield twice in the 3 drives, 1st drive = a 3 and out.

2nd QTR- 2 drives totaling 7:56 TOP, 10-dropbacks, 4-runs, 8- passes (sack and Wilson scramble make up 2 remaining dropbacks)- 6 first downs.

2 critical mistakes prevented points on both drives- We go for it on 4th and 1 on drive 1, and run out of time on drive 2. The offense most definitely moving the ball up and down the field, they just weren't finishing. We also had the ball for only 13:06 of the 30 mins. ATL really dominated the 1st QTR in TOP.

Ultimately, the game came down to 2 plays. Both of which Wagner's guy caught the ball. On the first play it appears to be loose man coverage- more likely a zone with Wagner and Trufant covering the 2 "Slot" Wr's. Wagner's guy running a deep out Catches the ball, Browner is on the Wide Out who is running a go route bails off of him and comes up to make the tackle.

The most inconceivable part of this play is Trufant. Who is suppose to be this saavy vet, yet he breaks hard on the shallowest route allowing a gaping hole for Ryan to pass into. If Trufant keeps his depth and ignores the flat route he would have taken that throw away and Ryan would have been forced to go to the flat guy, or he might have been forced to hold the ball and our blitz might have gotten there.

On Play 2, the biggest mistake is Wagner not making the tackle when it was there. If he makes the Tackle on Gonzo, It would have been @ the 35-36 yard line creating a 52-53 yard FG. Instead he breaks a tackle as is tackled @ 31. Making it an easier 48 yd FG.

 

[General Manager]

There is a portion of the media that hates Seattle this hasn't changed there's less of them than there was but obviously there are still some out there. This is the same crew that said Wilson would have a sophomore slump. There straight up trolling and some of you are taking the bait. Just ignore it that's the best thing we can do other than calling up the local media and calling these turds on ESPN out , that's different than reading there garbage they want clicks don't give them any and don't link there garbage either. The good news is once the season starts this garbage will evaporate because Seattle is the best team in the league. Now I have no problem with anyone on this board calling them out just don't link there lame ass garbage on the NET .