KC Joyner Trolling: "Pats will have best secondary in 2014"

[RolandDeschain]

I'll have to get back to you later on that, jlwaters1. I suspect I already know much of what I'm going to say about it, but I need to watch that game again; it has been quite a while since I've seen it.

 

[kearly]

(I'm just going to copy/paste my post from the duplicate topic).

Joyner could probably build a house with all the hate mail he will get from that one. Partly because he deserves it, but mostly because Seahawks fans very much live up to their reputation for being... how to put it nicely... "easily mobilized."

I don't think Joyner is an idiot, no idiot would be capable of some of his excellent NFL draft articles from the past few years. But yeah, judging a secondary that haven't even played a game together yet based on the sum of its parts is a bad idea, doubly so for secondaries that were built on splashy FA additions. Remember all the hype for Tampa's secondary last year?

Browner might still be a useful player. Revis may be an insecure egomaniac but he's as good as they say. Rightly or wrongly, McCourty was PFF's #1 safety in 2013.

But even the sum of all parts argument is pretty dumb anyway, considering that Patrick Chung has been one of their starting safeties.

Seattle has very precise parts to fit their cover 3 scheme. I don't know if the Patriots are going to copy Seattle's scheme or not. If they aren't using the same cover 3 scheme as us this year, I don't see how they could copy Seattle's extremely high success level. If they do copy the scheme, do they have the exact right kind of players at every position? I don't think they do.

 

[canfan]

If I remember, wasn't it about this time last year when the Tampa Bay Buc's were going to challenge to be the best secondary in football? Its the season of lists and pointless speculation. I don't think I will renew my insider subscription. Other than the occasionl Sando article, I don't see much of value there

 

[Sports Hernia]

This numbnuts was on 710 ESPN earlier and he actually said that he would rather have New England's secondary over the Hawks if they were going against the Bronco's. Um, the Pats just got slaughtered by the Bronco's in the playoffs, right before the Hawks held them to 8 points.
Crack kills.

Yeah, heard that, was laughing my ass off and saying to my radio "Did you WATCH Super Bowl 48 at all?"
This guy dug himself into a hole with that poorly written article/blog and keeps digging deeper, moron! LMAO..

....and little does this clown realize that crap like what he just wrote FUELS the LOB!!!! ..... to quote Red Foreman. "DUMB-ASS!"

 

[Sac]

This numbnuts was on 710 ESPN earlier and he actually said that he would rather have New England's secondary over the Hawks if they were going against the Bronco's. Um, the Pats just got slaughtered by the Bronco's in the playoffs, right before the Hawks held them to 8 points.
Crack kills.

Yeah, heard that, was laughing my ass off and saying to my radio "Did you WATCH Super Bowl 48 at all?"
This guy dug himself into a hole with that poorly written article/blog and keeps digging deeper, moron! LMAO..

....and little does this clown realize that crap like what he just wrote FUELS the LOB!!!! ..... to quote Red Foreman. "DUMB-ASS!"

Madness. Even if you make the assumption that Sherman and Revis are equal, which I think is fair. Maxwell is clearly better than Browner and the Pats have nobody like Earl or Chancellor.

This guy is clearly out to prove that opinions can indeed be WRONG.

 

[Tokadub]

No, it was on the inability of Seattle to stop Mike Turner because Chris Clemons was out with his ACL tear. The Falcons were able to go to run and pass, instead of playing to Seattle's strengths, not even to mention the lack of pass rush. ( I know you want to diss Bevell, like, all day, but he called a fine game. It's too easy to forget Marshawn's goal line fumble when you have your scapegoat.)

I agree that Chris Clemon's injury was the biggest cause of our loss, especially considering that the game turned out to be so close and our defense really had problems in general. We had virtually no pressure with our pass rush, and our run defense was compromised as well as Sarlacc mentioned.

I just had a terrible feeling when Chris Clemons got injured. My first reaction was that we just lost our chance to win the Super Bowl and I do think we had a legit chance last year if he had stayed healthy. We were red hot in the end of 2012.

I might be biased with the Chris Clemons opinion since I reacted so strongly to his injury, but I think that's a pretty accurate assessment. Gonna need to re-watch that game at some point.

EDIT: I do agree our offensive play calling was pretty terrible but if we had Chris Clemons we still could of won with it in that particular game.

 

[HansGruber]

(I'm just going to copy/paste my post from the duplicate topic).

Joyner could probably build a house with all the hate mail he will get from that one. Partly because he deserves it, but mostly because Seahawks fans very much live up to their reputation for being... how to put it nicely... "easily mobilized."

I don't think Joyner is an idiot, no idiot would be capable of some of his excellent NFL draft articles from the past few years. But yeah, judging a secondary that haven't even played a game together yet based on the sum of its parts is a bad idea, doubly so for secondaries that were built on splashy FA additions. Remember all the hype for Tampa's secondary last year?

Browner might still be a useful player. Revis may be an insecure egomaniac but he's as good as they say. Rightly or wrongly, McCourty was PFF's #1 safety in 2013.

But even the sum of all parts argument is pretty dumb anyway, considering that Patrick Chung has been one of their starting safeties.

Seattle has very precise parts to fit their cover 3 scheme. I don't know if the Patriots are going to copy Seattle's scheme or not. If they aren't using the same cover 3 scheme as us this year, I don't see how they could copy Seattle's extremely high success level. If they do copy the scheme, do they have the exact right kind of players at every position? I don't think they do.

McCourty is good for sure, great even.

But Revis hasn't been as good as they say since 2009, and even that is debatable.

And Jemea Thomas? Really? I know you follow the draft, maybe you can tell me how that was a good pick when your only other options in the secondary are a couple older guys riding their names. Thomas is a decent rotational guy, can play a lot of positions, but he's not great in any of them. I didn't get that pick. And I know I've been spoiled by Carroll when the first thought after seeing him drafted was, "If you're going to copy the Seahawks, why draft a 5'9" DB?"

 

[jlwaters1]

I'll have to get back to you later on that, jlwaters1. I suspect I already know much of what I'm going to say about it, but I need to watch that game again; it has been quite a while since I've seen it.

I suppose you could argue (and I would probably agree) that the calls on 3rd and 4th down on the 1st drive of the 2nd quarter were too conservative-- 3rd down a run with Turbin and on 4th down a FB dive to Robinson-- why no Lynch?

However, I think they had it opened up for most of the 1st half, certainly it was one of the most frustrating half's of that year, seem like we were driving it on them only to shaft ourselves in the end. Running out of time at the end of half also really hurt.

the worst part of that game, Wilson should have gone down in the record books as orchestrating the greatest road comeback in playoff history. Instead, we had to watch the 49ers go to the SB.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I suppose you could argue (and I would probably agree) that the calls on 3rd and 4th down on the 1st drive of the 2nd quarter were too conservative-- 3rd down a run with Turbin and on 4th down a FB dive to Robinson-- why no Lynch?

However, I think they had it opened up for most of the 1st half, certainly it was one of the most frustrating half's of that year, seem like we were driving it on them only to shaft ourselves in the end. Running out of time at the end of half also really hurt.

the worst part of that game, Wilson should have gone down in the record books as orchestrating the greatest road comeback in playoff history. Instead, we had to watch the 49ers go to the SB.

Just to be clear, while the word I used above was "conservative", the much larger problem I have with Bevell is not that, it's the fact that we are very, very predictable on offense. (I've stated this many times in the past.) Watch the Patriots offense, they mix up formations all the time and run guys around before the snap, etc.; it's nowhere near as easy to guess what each play is going to be in approximate terms compared to ours. We tend to just sit there and run Beast Mode through an A gap the vast majority of the time that we run and how often do we have a designed pass play where Marshawn's lined up in the I formation? Faking the look of a run on a designed play pass is a common tactic in the NFL, but not with us. I mean, we could very easily run all the same plays but not telegraph it to opposing defenses so friggin' easily just by being more creative with our formations. It kills me, and I'm not the only one that thinks it.

 

[kearly]

Joyner discussing the article on Brock and Danny.

http://mynorthwest.com/category/pod_pla ... nd%20Danny

The other thing Joyner kind of brushes over is that to surpass Seattle's secondary, it would mean surpassing maybe the best secondary in NFL history last season. I think it is one thing to say New England is in the discussion and another thing to say "maybe even better." That's a stretch, IMO.

He also cites opposing YPA for attempts over 20 yards, but doesn't cite interceptions. Seattle is 12th in YPA against for passes over 20 yards, but A/YPA would certainly be much higher given their gaudy interception totals.

He also seems to think Seattle will decline some, for no specific reason other than the "plexiglass theory." In essence, Joyner is operating under assumption that Seattle's secondary experienced a "peak" year in 2013, as opposed to reaching a high plateau. The concept itself is not flawed, but the idea of attaching it to Seattle's secondary is. Seattle has had an elite secondary for a few years now, even during seasons when their pass rush was in the bottom half of the league.

I actually think Seattle's secondary will further improve in 2014, barring a scenario where OC's figure out how to exploit our cover 3. But purely in terms of player performances, I expect improvement. Last year Seattle's pass rush didn't really hit it's full stride until around mid-season. Similarly, Browner was only a league average player for 11 games until he was replaced by Maxwell who played on an elite level. A full season with a quality pass rush and Maxwell starting over Browner will constitute significant improvement. Once Maxwell took over our defense improved by four points a game last season.

 

[loafoftatupu]

Joyner discussing the article on Brock and Danny.

http://mynorthwest.com/category/pod_pla ... nd%20Danny

Oh that was classic reaching. It's like he took the numbers Talib had and added it to what Revis and Browner might be able to bring. As soon as the safety talk came up and Joyner started talking about "stretch" stuff he is just finding a specific instance that just doesn't matter. McCourty? Sure, he is a fair player but COME ON.

That was pretty funny. Nice logic to justify the writing meant to generate hits.

The Hawks clearly have the best unit in the NFL, maybe the best of all time. They have essentially proven it for nearly 3 seasons while this guy's presentation is for a group that hasn't seen a single game together with 2 of the 4 being new to the team. The safeties are not even in the same realm.

Browner will make some plays, but I am not entirely sold on Revis being the guy everyone thought he was. Not a down of football together and dude has them at the top. Nice work Joyner. Lol.

 

[loafoftatupu]

Hahahaha... "stretch vertical passes".


That is HILARIOUS. The listen just gets better. He actually said he would take NE over the LOB for 2014. What a moron.

"I just think" ......(he says that about 38 times) the guy is totally talking out of his arse and I mean bad. These guys are just 4 year players and they are going to drop off..

 

[GLOCKHAWK]

I do realize that "ESPN First Take" morons are usually WRONG but...Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless do make a few key points.

[youtube]n8xaiHIrtDk[/youtube]

 

[Smellyman]

Hahahaha... "stretch vertical passes".


That is HILARIOUS. The listen just gets better. He actually said he would take NE over the LOB for 2014. What a moron.

"I just think" ......(he says that about 38 times) the guy is totally talking out of his arse and I mean bad. These guys are just 4 year players and they are going to drop off..

and they were probably mostly against Browner.

 

[Smellyman]

I do realize that "ESPN First Take" morons are usually WRONG but...Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless do make a few key points.

[youtube]n8xaiHIrtDk[/youtube]

Ha. I would never click that link....fool me once......

 

[kearly]

and they were probably mostly against Browner.

I'm surprised Huard or Wassell didn't nail him on that.

 

[davidonmi]

I don't even know where this is coming from.

Sherman and revis is a wash at the very best

Maxwell was flat out better than browner, and is younger

McCourty is good but Thomas is the all pro correct

Harmon vs Chancellor? get out

maybe you can make an argument for slot corner but I'll take us at every single position.

As for the blabbing of Stephen A smith. Yes our offense will have to answer the bell. But I fail to see why it won't. And it's not easy to just be SF on defense

 

[gulliver]

This helps with the statistical battle too.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/ ... f-schedule

Hawks with #6 ranked schedule in 2013 at 0.561--which is 0.017 removed from #1--and then you have the Pats at #10 with 0.516.

If that doesn't sound like a lot of daylight, the range is only 0.148 so it is actually immense. In other words, all these stats that are being offered to back up this "Pats may have the best secondary" argument neglect a substantial SoS difference. It's one thing to blast EJ Manuel and Geno Smith--it's another thing to meet Kaep 3x, Brees 2x and so on.

And just at the most basic level, both secondaries faced Peyton. The Pats emerged with 2 losses to him and a nailbiter win at home. Our secondary went on the road on the biggest stage and absolutely humiliated him. The debate is over right there.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I just want to point out that it's impossible to calculate SoS prior to the season. It's ALWAYS way off because of the parity in the NFL, teams rise and fall all the time. You can only look back after a season's over to find out how easy or hard any given schedule was.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

2014 will be known as the year for what I call "reverse trolling."

All these fringe hack media members with blogs now know that all they have to do for attention is to write something outlandish or controversial, and then wait for the negative attention.

And our fanbase is the worst for attacking these idiots with ferocity giving them all the attention they so desperately crave.