Kiper grades the Hawks a C+

[Year of The Hawk]

The post draft grade is about as useless as the mock draft. What I have always loved is when they rate a quarterback high saying " big guy with a cannon for an arm with the prototypical Pro QB mold blah blah blah". More often than not they are a bust. That is why I like that RW has excelled they way he has. These "experts" are just vomiting hoping someone will listen. Lets be realistic. If these guys really knew what they were doing they would have been picked up by a team for there war room. I could be wrong but I don't think that has happened.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Britt is going to make you guys happy he's a Gio with the physical tools. More importantly he's just flat mean.

 

[kf3339]

Britt is going to make you guys happy he's a Gio with the physical tools. More importantly he's just flat mean.

Just because a guy is mean doesn't make him any more better of an NFL prospect. We drafted EJ Wilson in the 4th round of 2010 and I saw many quotes by players that he was the meanest guy they ever met. Yet he barely played and was cut in his rookie year.

He got on for one season with TB but did nothing for them and was hurt.

I honestly don't know what to think about Britt, but just hope them reaching for him wasn't a mistake.

 

[kf3339]

I agree with Kiper 100%. I don't think he said anything in error, though it is funny coming from him.

At Boise State, Chris Petersen dominated by bringing in 2 star recruits and turning them into NFL players. That's a amazing, but it doesn't change the fact that those guys he recruited were weak prospects. Had they gone to almost any other program, they probably are an afterthought. It's not the players that he picked, it's what he did to coach up and support those players.

Pete Carroll has pretty much done the same thing in the NFL, which is ironic since he regularly had the best recruiting classes in the nation at USC. This year Seattle drafted maybe their weakest group yet, the highest NFL.com prospect grade for any pick Seattle ended up making was a 5.4 (Norwood). Those grades were assigned before Seattle drafted those players. Keep in mind that a 5.0 is a UDFA score, with 8 being the highest. Three guys didn't have any grade because they weren't expected to be drafted or signed.

If we didn't have an amazing player development system and coaching staff, we'd likely be screwed with a draft class like this more often than not. But that's totally okay for us, because we do.

And like Kiper says, Okung and Thomas aside, PC/JS have never drafted super-high rated prospects, but they grow them into pro-bowlers with perhaps the best player development system the NFL has ever seen.

And of course you can't grade today for how players will develop tomorrow, which is the main reason instant draft grades are silly. But everyone should know they are silly and just take them for what they are, a snapshot of what people thought at the time.

I just think this draft is interesting because Seattle still "reached" like crazy as usual but they didn't reach for the Tharold Simons, Bruce Irvins, JR Sweezys, or Korey Toomers. They reached for guys Tim Ruskell would have loved, polished players, mostly from big schools with high marks for character. Most of them seniors. It seems Seattle's player acquisition process is ever evolving.

I applaud your willingness to go mostly against the grain from the vast amount of comments about our draft. I agree but am keeping out of it since there are too many "experts" that seem to have it all figured out.

 

[Sac]

I think part of the player development process, the first part, is the scouting department finding players who have the drive to be great in their character to begin with, then the unique traits/high sparq scores, and then the coaching aspect comes in.
Prospects that grade out as first rounders generally have huge "upside" plus college production and don't generally need as much work as the later guys. That doesn't man that the FO can just take anyone though. They still have to meet the athletic minimum requirements.

 

[Blitzer88]

But what did Walter football say about our draft? Did he give us another one of those "worst draft in the history of sports" grades? Because those usually turn out pretty phenomenally...

Walter gave us the highest grade of all. No shit.

So, we are totally boned.

We're screwed! :240039: :240039: :240039: :240039: :240039:

 

[themunn]

I agree with Kiper 100%. I don't think he said anything in error, though it is funny coming from him.

At Boise State, Chris Petersen dominated by bringing in 2 star recruits and turning them into NFL players. That's a amazing, but it doesn't change the fact that those guys he recruited were weak prospects. Had they gone to almost any other program, they probably are an afterthought. It's not the players that he picked, it's what he did to coach up and support those players.

Pete Carroll has pretty much done the same thing in the NFL, which is ironic since he regularly had the best recruiting classes in the nation at USC. This year Seattle drafted maybe their weakest group yet, the highest NFL.com prospect grade for any pick Seattle ended up making was a 5.4 (Norwood). Those grades were assigned before Seattle drafted those players. Keep in mind that a 5.0 is a UDFA score, with 8 being the highest. Three guys didn't have any grade because they weren't expected to be drafted or signed.

If we didn't have an amazing player development system and coaching staff, we'd likely be screwed with a draft class like this more often than not. But that's totally okay for us, because we do.

And like Kiper says, Okung and Thomas aside, PC/JS have never drafted super-high rated prospects, but they grow them into pro-bowlers with perhaps the best player development system the NFL has ever seen.

And of course you can't grade today for how players will develop tomorrow, which is the main reason instant draft grades are silly. But everyone should know they are silly and just take them for what they are, a snapshot of what people thought at the time.

I just think this draft is interesting because Seattle still "reached" like crazy as usual but they didn't reach for the Tharold Simons, Bruce Irvins, JR Sweezys, or Korey Toomers. They reached for guys Tim Ruskell would have loved, polished players, mostly from big schools with high marks for character. Most of them seniors. It seems Seattle's player acquisition process is ever evolving.

Byron Maxwell, Anthony McCoy and Malcolm Smith are really the only two players we've drafted that I could say we've "developed though", the following players we've picked up in the third round or later and have either started or been immediate contributors in their rookie season since 2010 (including UDFAs):

Kam Chancellor, John Moffit (even if he is now gone), Richard Sherman, KJ Wright, Doug Baldwin, Russell Wilson, Robert Turbin, JR Sweezy, Greg Scruggs, JR Sweezy, Jermaine Kearse, Luke Willson, Michael Bowie, Derrick Coleman, Alvin Bailey

I'm sure I've missed some guys, but the point is, there's only so much to be said for developing players if you can pick up an average of 4 players a year in the 3rd round or later who can contribute in their rookie season, to be able to come in and do that in a rookie season requires you to have the talent in the first place

 

[olyfan63]

7th Rounder Michael Bowie and UDFA Alvin Bailey basically saved the Seahawks season, stepping in and stepping up enough for the 'Hawks to win key regular season games, even if it was ugly at times. Plus, IIRC, Bailey was in on Lynch's TD run in NFCCG and had a key block. A good chunk of "value" from the 2013 draft right there.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

I do "get" Kiper. He's assessing players based on NFL-readiness and his market is fans desperate for their team to fill the gaping holes they have so that they can hopefully not suck next year.

He's selling hope to the hopeless. Yes, Cleveland, you can be competitive now that you have Johnny Football. We'll just forget Gordon will be suspended for drugs and Burleson just broke his arm.

And fans buy it. "Woot! We got an A in the draft!" they cheer, knowing deep down inside that will be all they have to cheer about all year.

We were there not so long ago.

Snake oil, Snake oil, Get your Snake oil here. 50 cent a bottle. he he he :twisted:

:thirishdrinkers: :thirishdrinkers: :thirishdrinkers:

 

[Polaris]

I do "get" Kiper. He's assessing players based on NFL-readiness and his market is fans desperate for their team to fill the gaping holes they have so that they can hopefully not suck next year.

He's selling hope to the hopeless. Yes, Cleveland, you can be competitive now that you have Johnny Football. We'll just forget Gordon will be suspended for drugs and Burleson just broke his arm.

And fans buy it. "Woot! We got an A in the draft!" they cheer, knowing deep down inside that will be all they have to cheer about all year.

We were there not so long ago.

Snake oil, Snake oil, Get your Snake oil here. 50 cent a bottle. he he he :twisted:

:thirishdrinkers: :thirishdrinkers: :thirishdrinkers:

Snake Oil is so nineteenth century. It's really, "Be a Superbowl Team in One Draft. Win the Championship in April. Go get Mel Kiper's Falmer* Blood Draft Elixer. Tired of losing seasons? Get Kiper's Falmer* Blood Elixer."

*-Skyrim/TES reference here

 

[Shane Falco]

“There simply isn't a better player development program in the NFL right now than Seattle's,” Kiper wrote. “The players the Seahawks draft -- the players I've spent many hours evaluating and making calls on -- are often players that evolve, improve and become something new after Seattle drafts them.”

Just a cop out imo. Way to cover your ass Kiper. Pretty sure we we're immediately impressed with quite a few of these guys they've drafted. Kam, Sherm, Russ, etc.

 

[twisted_steel2]

I agree with Kiper 100%. I don't think he said anything in error, though it is funny coming from him.

At Boise State, Chris Petersen dominated by bringing in 2 star recruits and turning them into NFL players. That's a amazing, but it doesn't change the fact that those guys he recruited were weak prospects. Had they gone to almost any other program, they probably are an afterthought. It's not the players that he picked, it's what he did to coach up and support those players.

Pete Carroll has pretty much done the same thing in the NFL, which is ironic since he regularly had the best recruiting classes in the nation at USC. This year Seattle drafted maybe their weakest group yet, the highest NFL.com prospect grade for any pick Seattle ended up making was a 5.4 (Norwood). Those grades were assigned before Seattle drafted those players. Keep in mind that a 5.0 is a UDFA score, with 8 being the highest. Three guys didn't have any grade because they weren't expected to be drafted or signed.

If we didn't have an amazing player development system and coaching staff, we'd likely be screwed with a draft class like this more often than not. But that's totally okay for us, because we do.

And like Kiper says, Okung and Thomas aside, PC/JS have never drafted super-high rated prospects, but they grow them into pro-bowlers with perhaps the best player development system the NFL has ever seen.

And of course you can't grade today for how players will develop tomorrow, which is the main reason instant draft grades are silly. But everyone should know they are silly and just take them for what they are, a snapshot of what people thought at the time.

I just think this draft is interesting because Seattle still "reached" like crazy as usual but they didn't reach for the Tharold Simons, Bruce Irvins, JR Sweezys, or Korey Toomers. They reached for guys Tim Ruskell would have loved, polished players, mostly from big schools with high marks for character. Most of them seniors. It seems Seattle's player acquisition process is ever evolving.

I applaud your willingness to go mostly against the grain from the vast amount of comments about our draft. I agree but am keeping out of it since there are too many "experts" that seem to have it all figured out.

Wait, are you the "expert" or the people on here you don't agree with the "experts"?

 

[JZ#1]

Ya kiper neglects the fact that many of these players stepped in and balled right away. Like Sherman, Chancellor etc.

 

[vanillasuede]

This is great as it means Hawks will win the super bowl again. After all, we all know how well Kiper does on his grading.

 

[Marvin49]

Just a comment about draft grades in general...

...even though my Niners are getting high marks all around, they are really kinda pointless. Its nice to hear that people who follow the draft like what my team did and likes the players they selected, but this whole thing is way too inexact a science to make much of draft grades. Some were critical of the 49ers for selecting Jimmie Ward too high. Same for Bruce Irvin a few years ago. The problem is that the assumption there is that people are assuming that most teams rank the players the way the media does. The teams have access to a lot more information than the media does...including what other teams might be thinking.

It also depends ALOT on the roster of the teams that are making these picks. The Seahawks didn't get a single starter last year in the draft (correct me if I'm wrong there). The Niners only got one. Is that because they were bad drafts?

No. Its because both teams essentially redshirted some players and had very few holes to fill to begin with. Your rookie class usually isn't going to come in and start at 3 or 4 positions right off the bat unless you really suck.

...as for Kiper in particular....I guess he's ok. I MUCH prefer Mike Mayock.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The worst grade from Kiper the better, dude's an old out of touch hack. In fact, Deadspin tracked his picks over the past couple of years and found out you'd be better served having a monkey throw darts at a draft board than have Kiper make your picks.

http://deadspin.com/infographic-youre-b ... 98/+kylenw

 

[ZorntoLargent]

What Kiper is missing is that in order to develop players as well as we do, we have to start with players who can be developed. Guys with strong work ethics who are students of the game and have some un-coachable quality about them that makes them special.

You can teach someone how to play cornerback, but you can't teach a guy to be the best corner in the league - that has to come from within the player himself.

Take a WR who runs a 4.4 40 and is NFL-ready. Great - you have your average NFL receiver. Now take a guy who has some flaws but runs a 4.28 40. Train off those flaws and you have someone really special.

PC & JS excel in gathering the raw materials they need to craft NFL players. They identify potential and assist the player to realize that potential, and where it works they end up with truly special players.

Carroll was quoted before the draft saying we don't need any players from the draft to compete this year. We had everyone we needed already on the roster. Our draft isn't about filling needs; it's about the search for players who can become special.

Kiper doesn't grade on that.

I agree 100%
Speaking as someone that has played for one of the Seahawks coaches (Sherman Smith) in HS.........
Sherman took me at 150 lbs in HS and turned me into a special teams head hunter (Think Ricardo Lockette)
I just didn't have the size to remain a starter at DE, but it didn't mean I couldn't contribute and become great.

 

[onanygivensunday]

The worst grade from Kiper the better, dude's an old out of touch hack. In fact, Deadspin tracked his picks over the past couple of years and found out you'd be better served having a monkey throw darts at a draft board than have Kiper make your picks.

http://deadspin.com/infographic-youre-b ... 98/+kylenw

But that only addresses when/where a player will be picked... that's worthless information. Who cares about that.

What's much more interesting is looking at a re-draft 3 or 4 years later to see which teams can recognize and/or develop talent the best.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The worst grade from Kiper the better, dude's an old out of touch hack. In fact, Deadspin tracked his picks over the past couple of years and found out you'd be better served having a monkey throw darts at a draft board than have Kiper make your picks.

http://deadspin.com/infographic-youre-b ... 98/+kylenw

But that only addresses when/where a player will be picked... that's worthless information. Who cares about that.

What's much more interesting is looking at a re-draft 3 or 4 years later to see which teams can recognize and/or develop talent the best.

What's a better gauge of accuracy than Kiper's pre-draft top 20 and see if those players panned out? He was woefully inaccurate with his selections as far as predicting future stars.

You're talking about non Mel Kiper related information.

 

[kf3339]

I agree with Kiper 100%. I don't think he said anything in error, though it is funny coming from him.

At Boise State, Chris Petersen dominated by bringing in 2 star recruits and turning them into NFL players. That's a amazing, but it doesn't change the fact that those guys he recruited were weak prospects. Had they gone to almost any other program, they probably are an afterthought. It's not the players that he picked, it's what he did to coach up and support those players.

Pete Carroll has pretty much done the same thing in the NFL, which is ironic since he regularly had the best recruiting classes in the nation at USC. This year Seattle drafted maybe their weakest group yet, the highest NFL.com prospect grade for any pick Seattle ended up making was a 5.4 (Norwood). Those grades were assigned before Seattle drafted those players. Keep in mind that a 5.0 is a UDFA score, with 8 being the highest. Three guys didn't have any grade because they weren't expected to be drafted or signed.

If we didn't have an amazing player development system and coaching staff, we'd likely be screwed with a draft class like this more often than not. But that's totally okay for us, because we do.

And like Kiper says, Okung and Thomas aside, PC/JS have never drafted super-high rated prospects, but they grow them into pro-bowlers with perhaps the best player development system the NFL has ever seen.

And of course you can't grade today for how players will develop tomorrow, which is the main reason instant draft grades are silly. But everyone should know they are silly and just take them for what they are, a snapshot of what people thought at the time.

I just think this draft is interesting because Seattle still "reached" like crazy as usual but they didn't reach for the Tharold Simons, Bruce Irvins, JR Sweezys, or Korey Toomers. They reached for guys Tim Ruskell would have loved, polished players, mostly from big schools with high marks for character. Most of them seniors. It seems Seattle's player acquisition process is ever evolving.

I applaud your willingness to go mostly against the grain from the vast amount of comments about our draft. I agree but am keeping out of it since there are too many "experts" that seem to have it all figured out.

Wait, are you the "expert" or the people on here you don't agree with the "experts"?

None of us are. That's the point. But of almost all of the guys on this board I think Kearly is one of the best in terms of his knowledge of the game. So I will value his opinion (and a few others) more than pretty much anyone else.