L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"

[hawk45]

Oh my goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood

Why is everyone so offended over this? He gets absolutely crapped on, and has from the moment he was picked. It is perfectly acceptable for him to feel disrespected at this stage, because he feels as if he has talent to contribute and is being written off by everyone. How is that abnormal? Why is that wrong?

It's being made a bigger deal of than it actual is, having listened to him speak.

Because a responsible person would acknowledge that they contributed zero in their first year and so it’s quite appropriate and not at all disrespectful, that fans, other players, the world, treat him as a non contributor until he manages to make the active squad?

It’s one thing for Doug Baldwin or Sherman to whine about disrespect; they have a leg to stand in. It’s another thing for this waste of a roster spot (in year one) to whine about it. Do something on the field, hell, see the field at all, then we can talk about disrespect. The guy’s beneath disrespecting at this point; he’s beneath any notice whatsoever.

 

[Largent80]

If you play in a sport you are susseptable to injury. You got injured and it was used as an excuse to put you further behind. Yet, you want to bitch about respect?...C'mon man. You did JACK SQUAT to impress ANYONE.....How about a big ole cup of STFU?.

Do something, then say something . Until then?.......Speak no Evil.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Oh my goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood

Why is everyone so offended over this? He gets absolutely crapped on, and has from the moment he was picked. It is perfectly acceptable for him to feel disrespected at this stage, because he feels as if he has talent to contribute and is being written off by everyone. How is that abnormal? Why is that wrong?

It's being made a bigger deal of than it actual is, having listened to him speak.

Because a responsible person would acknowledge that they contributed zero in their first year and so it’s quite appropriate and not at all disrespectful, that fans, other players, the world, treat him as a non contributor until he manages to make the active squad?

It’s one thing for Doug Baldwin or Sherman to whine about disrespect; they have a leg to stand in. It’s another thing for this waste of a roster spot (in year one) to whine about it. Do something on the field, hell, see the field at all, then we can talk about disrespect. The guy’s beneath disrespecting at this point; he’s beneath any notice whatsoever.

That's a really, really serious post for a reaction to a football player stating that he's looking forward to disproving notions regarding his level of talent. You, and others, should be rooting for that to happen - yet instead, you take the opportunity to.. get mad?

Just strikes me as ridiculous.

 

[toffee]

Wouldn't one have to earn the respect for one to lose that earned respect? Since Collier hasn't earned any respect from the coaching staffs, his peers, and 12s, he has no respect, period.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[Jville]

Scorn, a contempt or disdain, is a fruit that pride produces in a person, and it is usually shown toward someone thought to be an inferior. A human being will tend to avoid the person who he deems unworthy, or he will immediately reject or ridicule the unworthy person's opinions. What is the effect of this? It breaks people into cliques. Scorn divides and separates.

 

[Appyhawk]

Collier will get his chance. What more can he ask for?
Here's the thing that bugs me. Collier was a first round selection for a defensive player from the Big12.
I see a lot of Big12 football. When you watch Big12 football these days outstanding defensive play is NOT what you notice. What you see is a whole lot of flashy offensive players scoring the ball and making big play after big play. I, for one, would NOT be looking at the Big12 to find outstanding defensive football players. There are some that are very good, but they look outstanding because of a lack of talent surrounding them on defense.
So what I'm saying is I think Collier has a lot to prove. There's only one way to do that. I'll also point out we have another one in the same rowboat we got with our first round pick this year. I'm hoping both can do it as Seahawks at NFL level, but I'm waiting to see them prove it before I start crashing the cymbals.

 

[Smellyman]

Collier will get his chance. What more can he ask for?
Here's the thing that bugs me. Collier was a first round selection for a defensive player from the Big12.
I see a lot of Big12 football. When you watch Big12 football these days outstanding defensive play is NOT what you notice. What you see is a whole lot of flashy offensive players scoring the ball and making big play after big play. I, for one, would NOT be looking at the Big12 to find outstanding defensive football players. There are some that are very good, but they look outstanding because of a lack of talent surrounding them on defense.
So what I'm saying is I think Collier has a lot to prove. There's only one way to do that. I'll also point out we have another one in the same rowboat we got with our first round pick this year. I'm hoping both can do it as Seahawks at NFL level, but I'm waiting to see them prove it before I start crashing the cymbals.

So Jordyn Brooks will be bad too?

 

[olyfan63]

Oh my goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood

Why is everyone so offended over this? He gets absolutely crapped on, and has from the moment he was picked. It is perfectly acceptable for him to feel disrespected at this stage, because he feels as if he has talent to contribute and is being written off by everyone. How is that abnormal? Why is that wrong?

It's being made a bigger deal of than it actual is, having listened to him speak.

Because a responsible person would acknowledge that they contributed zero in their first year and so it’s quite appropriate and not at all disrespectful, that fans, other players, the world, treat him as a non contributor until he manages to make the active squad?

It’s one thing for Doug Baldwin or Sherman to whine about disrespect; they have a leg to stand in. It’s another thing for this waste of a roster spot (in year one) to whine about it. Do something on the field, hell, see the field at all, then we can talk about disrespect. The guy’s beneath disrespecting at this point; he’s beneath any notice whatsoever.

That's a really, really serious post for a reaction to a football player stating that he's looking forward to disproving notions regarding his level of talent. You, and others, should be rooting for that to happen - yet instead, you take the opportunity to.. get mad?

Just strikes me as ridiculous.

Maelstrom787, the voice of reason once again.

All I heard from LJ is that he is committed to doing the work and earning respect with his play.
Here is his off-season interview.
One questioner asked him if he was ever 100% during last season, his answer... NO.
He was never physically 100% during the season. LJ did clearly say the ankle IS 100% now, during the interview.

Most of the media questions had some element of how disappointing his rookie season was... don't blame him if he was getting a little annoyed during the interview; if he was, he didn't show it outwardly.

Rat included a terrific chart, which I've copied in this post. Thanks, you Rat! (in the best way )
If the Hawks scouts were right in what they saw in Collier, based on his draft postion, we should look for numbers like:
Healthy LJ Collier 2020 prediction: 40 tackles, 6 sacks
Of course, draft position means, to quote Jim Mora Sr., "diddly-poo" in Seattle, it's all about competing, per Pete Carroll.

[youtube]P5G-uvnMRVY[/youtube]

I keep hearing that rookie DEs don't produce, so I looked up the first ten DEs selected in last year's draft. Collier was the sixth selected.

1.02 Niners - Nick Bosa: 47 tackles, 9 sacks
1.04 Raiders - Clelin Ferrell: 38 tackles, 4.5 sacks
1.07 Jaguars - Josh Allen: 44 tackles, 10.5 sacks
1.16 Panthers - Brian Burns: 25 tackles, 7.5 sacks
1.26 Redskins - Montrez Sweat: 50 tackles, 7 sacks

1.29 Seahawks - L.J. Collier: 3 tackles, 0 sacks

3.65 Cardinals - Zach Allen: 8 tackles, 0 sacks (Injured neck in week 4, missed rest of season)
3.77 Patriots - Chase Winovich: 26 tackles, 5.5 sacks
3.85 Ravens - Jaylon Ferguson: 31 tackles, 2.5 sacks
3.95 Giants - Oshane Ximines: 25 tackles, 4.5 sacks
Then the 11th one: 4.106 Raiders - Maxx Crosby: 47 tackles, 10 sacks, 4 forced fumbles

Nobody should be "writing him off", but that's pretty discouraging for a 25-year-old rookie.

 

[jammerhawk]

This player likely has talent, but he’s been invisible, truly a non-entity. Reality is he was a college player who appeared to be able to play pro football, perhaps at a high level, and he hasn’t been able to show that ability, apparently b/c of injury and lack of practice repetition. He showed he can play at the Senior Bowl, but that was quite some time ago relatively. Unlike McDowell who was a character mistake I believe this player has some ability to be an outside in pass rusher that he certainly has not yet shown.

Disrespected? He says he feels disrespected, but was given respect by the team with what to some appears to have been extremely early selection in the draft relative to demonstrated ability on the field. He’s been ignored as part of the conversation regarding DE depth and that stings his ego. Sounds to me like self motivation as any elite athlete would know respect is earned and not something that should be taken for granted. I think he’s really saying: “Don’t write me off as a wasted draft pick, I’m a lot better player than I have shown. There are reasons why I didn’t show up last season. Just watch, I’m ready to show my stuff.” I sure hope so. Otherwise he needs to understand the reality he’s done nothing to earn respect yet, while being well paid for little performance.

Sure hope he’s ready to play this season, has been practicing on his own, lifting weights getting stronger, learning to hand fight and effective counters to OLinemen who hold lots. Sure hope this isn’t just some empty talk by him. It’s time for him to justify his early selection, earn his pay, and earn his respect. It’s far too soon to write him off. Like other young players he for sure needs to know his pro career In the NFL will be not for long if he doesn’t show up this season.

 

[xray]

He was a 1st round pick by the Hawks ; so he feels he should be treated as such . Maybe in reality he is really a 4th round pick at best . Go ask Pete and John what happened .

 

[Appyhawk]

Collier will get his chance. What more can he ask for?
Here's the thing that bugs me. Collier was a first round selection for a defensive player from the Big12.
I see a lot of Big12 football. When you watch Big12 football these days outstanding defensive play is NOT what you notice. What you see is a whole lot of flashy offensive players scoring the ball and making big play after big play. I, for one, would NOT be looking at the Big12 to find outstanding defensive football players. There are some that are very good, but they look outstanding because of a lack of talent surrounding them on defense.
So what I'm saying is I think Collier has a lot to prove. There's only one way to do that. I'll also point out we have another one in the same rowboat we got with our first round pick this year. I'm hoping both can do it as Seahawks at NFL level, but I'm waiting to see them prove it before I start crashing the cymbals.

So Jordyn Brooks will be bad too?

Not saying either will be "bad". Just saying defense is not the priority in Big12 football and when you have a guy that is a lonely talent on his side of the ball his stats are amplified to an extent that can be misleading in terms of actual talent level. I hope both will turn out to be all pro, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Not many thought Bobby Wagner would turn out to be what he is, but he became about as good as it gets.

 

[jammerhawk]

If a player has talent they could be from Fred's University for all it matters. it's not where they are from, but what they do when they get here.

Collier was a difference making player at the Senior Bowl, a dominating Outside /In DE/DLineman. He wasn't a guy with 'character issues' like McDowell. However, he didn't have the uber athletic profile that many Seahawks draft picks possess, but was player who's reputation was one of delivering hard work with top physicality. He seemed to be a player who was on the rise. I liked what he had to say and his humility and desire to show up with his early interviews. Then last season happened and with his injury he was simply invisible which is a tough and greatly disappointing showing from a 1st round draft pick. He did zip but cost the team on several levels: pick, salary, and wasted roster spot. In the end he would have probably been better to have been put on IR. Undoubtedly he has been disrespected as he'd shown nothing deserving respect which he must know has to be earned and can be lost easily.

He's right to be feeling some pressure to perform. if he needs to play the 'disrespected' card for his motivation I have nothing against that except it seems a tad cliche. For his sake I hope he's putting in the work so last season was just a medical redshirt lost season or the level of 'disrespect' he experiences will elevate significantly. He needs to put his head down and prove himself. There are several other guys here now who are ready to take his job. He needs to compete.

 

[Rat]

Oh my goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood

Why is everyone so offended over this? He gets absolutely crapped on, and has from the moment he was picked. It is perfectly acceptable for him to feel disrespected at this stage, because he feels as if he has talent to contribute and is being written off by everyone. How is that abnormal? Why is that wrong?

It's being made a bigger deal of than it actual is, having listened to him speak.

Because a responsible person would acknowledge that they contributed zero in their first year and so it’s quite appropriate and not at all disrespectful, that fans, other players, the world, treat him as a non contributor until he manages to make the active squad?

It’s one thing for Doug Baldwin or Sherman to whine about disrespect; they have a leg to stand in. It’s another thing for this waste of a roster spot (in year one) to whine about it. Do something on the field, hell, see the field at all, then we can talk about disrespect. The guy’s beneath disrespecting at this point; he’s beneath any notice whatsoever.

That's a really, really serious post for a reaction to a football player stating that he's looking forward to disproving notions regarding his level of talent. You, and others, should be rooting for that to happen - yet instead, you take the opportunity to.. get mad?

Just strikes me as ridiculous.

I don’t see where he’s acting “mad”.

You can root for a player while still recognizing that they’ve been a disappointment so far.

 

[Jville]

I keep hearing that rookie DEs don't produce, so I looked up the first ten DEs selected in last year's draft. Collier was the sixth selected.

1.02 Niners - Nick Bosa: 47 tackles, 9 sacks
1.04 Raiders - Clelin Ferrell: 38 tackles, 4.5 sacks
1.07 Jaguars - Josh Allen: 44 tackles, 10.5 sacks
1.16 Panthers - Brian Burns: 25 tackles, 7.5 sacks
1.26 Redskins - Montrez Sweat: 50 tackles, 7 sacks

1.29 Seahawks - L.J. Collier: 3 tackles, 0 sacks

3.65 Cardinals - Zach Allen: 8 tackles, 0 sacks (Injured neck in week 4, missed rest of season)
3.77 Patriots - Chase Winovich: 26 tackles, 5.5 sacks
3.85 Ravens - Jaylon Ferguson: 31 tackles, 2.5 sacks
3.95 Giants - Oshane Ximines: 25 tackles, 4.5 sacks
Then the 11th one: 4.106 Raiders - Maxx Crosby: 47 tackles, 10 sacks, 4 forced fumbles

Nobody should be "writing him off", but that's pretty discouraging for a 25-year-old rookie.

Appreciate the trouble "Rat" went to in providing content. I do think inclusion of significant additional stats help put comparisons in better perspective.

Bosa DL 789 defensive snaps
Rerrell DL 659 snaps
Allen DL 646 defensive snaps
Burns LB 729 defensive snaps
Sweeet LB 483 defensive snaps

Collier DL 155 defensive snaps

Allen DL 149 defensive snaps
Winovich DL 295 defensive snaps
Ferguson LB 507 defensive snaps
Ximines LB 512 defensive snaps

Crosby DL 768 defensive snaps
.................................................................................................................

So there is quite a mix of different positions in different schemes on different teams of players with different roles, snap opportunities and unique individual health experiences for 2019. Acknowledging these additional stats/variables make comparisons a bit more muddled.

 

[Rat]

I keep hearing that rookie DEs don't produce, so I looked up the first ten DEs selected in last year's draft. Collier was the sixth selected.

1.02 Niners - Nick Bosa: 47 tackles, 9 sacks
1.04 Raiders - Clelin Ferrell: 38 tackles, 4.5 sacks
1.07 Jaguars - Josh Allen: 44 tackles, 10.5 sacks
1.16 Panthers - Brian Burns: 25 tackles, 7.5 sacks
1.26 Redskins - Montrez Sweat: 50 tackles, 7 sacks

1.29 Seahawks - L.J. Collier: 3 tackles, 0 sacks

3.65 Cardinals - Zach Allen: 8 tackles, 0 sacks (Injured neck in week 4, missed rest of season)
3.77 Patriots - Chase Winovich: 26 tackles, 5.5 sacks
3.85 Ravens - Jaylon Ferguson: 31 tackles, 2.5 sacks
3.95 Giants - Oshane Ximines: 25 tackles, 4.5 sacks
Then the 11th one: 4.106 Raiders - Maxx Crosby: 47 tackles, 10 sacks, 4 forced fumbles

Nobody should be "writing him off", but that's pretty discouraging for a 25-year-old rookie.

Appreciate the trouble "Rat" went to in providing content. I do think inclusion of significant additional stats help put comparisons in better perspective.

Bosa DL 789 defensive snaps
Rerrell DL 659 snaps
Allen DL 646 defensive snaps
Burns LB 729 defensive snaps
Sweeet LB 483 defensive snaps

Collier DL 155 defensive snaps

Allen DL 149 defensive snaps
Winovich DL 295 defensive snaps
Ferguson LB 507 defensive snaps
Ximines LB 512 defensive snaps

Crosby DL 768 defensive snaps
.................................................................................................................

So there is quite a mix of different positions in different schemes on different teams of players with different roles, snap opportunities and unique individual health experiences for 2019. Acknowledging these additional stats/variables make comparisons a bit more muddled.

Why wasn’t he getting those snap opportunities though? He was getting healthy scratches late in the year. And it’s not like he was fighting tons of great players for PT.

 

[Jville]

I keep hearing that rookie DEs don't produce, so I looked up the first ten DEs selected in last year's draft. Collier was the sixth selected.

1.02 Niners - Nick Bosa: 47 tackles, 9 sacks
1.04 Raiders - Clelin Ferrell: 38 tackles, 4.5 sacks
1.07 Jaguars - Josh Allen: 44 tackles, 10.5 sacks
1.16 Panthers - Brian Burns: 25 tackles, 7.5 sacks
1.26 Redskins - Montrez Sweat: 50 tackles, 7 sacks

1.29 Seahawks - L.J. Collier: 3 tackles, 0 sacks

3.65 Cardinals - Zach Allen: 8 tackles, 0 sacks (Injured neck in week 4, missed rest of season)
3.77 Patriots - Chase Winovich: 26 tackles, 5.5 sacks
3.85 Ravens - Jaylon Ferguson: 31 tackles, 2.5 sacks
3.95 Giants - Oshane Ximines: 25 tackles, 4.5 sacks
Then the 11th one: 4.106 Raiders - Maxx Crosby: 47 tackles, 10 sacks, 4 forced fumbles

Nobody should be "writing him off", but that's pretty discouraging for a 25-year-old rookie.

Appreciate the trouble "Rat" went to in providing content. I do think inclusion of significant additional stats help put comparisons in better perspective.

Bosa DL 789 defensive snaps
Rerrell DL 659 snaps
Allen DL 646 defensive snaps
Burns LB 729 defensive snaps
Sweeet LB 483 defensive snaps

Collier DL 155 defensive snaps

Allen DL 149 defensive snaps
Winovich DL 295 defensive snaps
Ferguson LB 507 defensive snaps
Ximines LB 512 defensive snaps

Crosby DL 768 defensive snaps
.................................................................................................................

So there is quite a mix of different positions in different schemes on different teams of players with different roles, snap opportunities and unique individual health experiences for 2019. Acknowledging these additional stats/variables make comparisons a bit more muddled.

Why wasn’t he getting those snap opportunities though? He was getting healthy scratches late in the year.

Some answers lie in the interview archives of 2019. Regrettably, I don't have the relevant links organized by player to offer for our convenience. As I recall, injury and rehab limitations as well as falling behind on learning his assigned role with the Seahawks were the leading reasons offered up. He was drafted for a projected role with the Seahawks .... significantly different than his college role. There are also the "we don't know what we don't know" variables.

2020 will give us the answer as to if he provides the role he was projected to fill when they drafted him.

 

[Largent80]

So far, the guy is as underwhelming as a Twilight sequel.

 

[Cyrus12]

This year proves he is either another bust or he shows something...anything...got my doubts.

 

[Donn2390]

Reading a lot of these post makes me wonder if there are any Seahawk fans in Seattle. Sure doesn't sound like it...

 

[Rat]

Reading a lot of these post makes me wonder if there are any Seahawk fans in Seattle. Sure doesn't sound like it...

Nah, most seem to be accurately stating how he has performed so far. They’ve definitely been watching the games, which is probably necessary for Seahawk fandom.