Manziel is the no-doubt Heisman pick

[SonicHawk]

Why exactly are Bryce Petty or Marcus Mariota 'system' QB's, and Johnny Manziel is not?

Manziel has yet to come close to the numbers Case Keenum was putting up in the same offense that Sumlin ran at Houston. Manziel is a very good QB, but his success is just as much a factor of playing in that specific high powered offense as it is for Mariota or Petty.

Anyway, two loss Johnny is not going to win the Heisman again this year for two reasons. One, he's not head and shoulders above Mariota, Petty, Winston, McCarron, etc. Two, he's such an unlikable guy and that will absolutely cost him votes.

He can then head to the NFL and have a nice Jake Plummer-esque career.

Manziel plays in the SEC, you don't put up numbers like you would in CUSA.

A&M has a high powered offense because they have a horrible defense. It's so very un-SEC.

Do you see Manziel's stats? 73% completion, 10.5 YPA, 31 TDs

He threw for 464 against ALABAMA.

 

[DTexHawk]

Why exactly are Bryce Petty or Marcus Mariota 'system' QB's, and Johnny Manziel is not?

Manziel has yet to come close to the numbers Case Keenum was putting up in the same offense that Sumlin ran at Houston. Manziel is a very good QB, but his success is just as much a factor of playing in that specific high powered offense as it is for Mariota or Petty.

Anyway, two loss Johnny is not going to win the Heisman again this year for two reasons. One, he's not head and shoulders above Mariota, Petty, Winston, McCarron, etc. Two, he's such an unlikable guy and that will absolutely cost him votes.

He can then head to the NFL and have a nice Jake Plummer-esque career.

Ditto to Sonic's post above.

And is this based off personal experience or just what you read?

Yes, it's local to me, but most who have interactions with Johnny (local media, other students, charity events) would say he's very likable.

I would bet others would say the same about the others in their regions.

 

[JSeahawks]

Why exactly are Bryce Petty or Marcus Mariota 'system' QB's, and Johnny Manziel is not?

Manziel has yet to come close to the numbers Case Keenum was putting up in the same offense that Sumlin ran at Houston. Manziel is a very good QB, but his success is just as much a factor of playing in that specific high powered offense as it is for Mariota or Petty.

Anyway, two loss Johnny is not going to win the Heisman again this year for two reasons. One, he's not head and shoulders above Mariota, Petty, Winston, McCarron, etc. Two, he's such an unlikable guy and that will absolutely cost him votes.

He can then head to the NFL and have a nice Jake Plummer-esque career.

Manziel plays in the SEC, you don't put up numbers like you would in CUSA.

A&M has a high powered offense because they have a horrible defense. It's so very un-SEC.

Do you see Manziel's stats? 73% completion, 10.5 YPA, 31 TDs

He threw for 464 against ALABAMA.

The whole "he plays in the sec so he should get extra credit" is ridiculously overrated. There's 1 great defense, a couple good defenses, then the rest of the conference plays the same d as the rest of the country. Not to mention that manziel also has an sec o'line and sec weapons around him, so wouldn't that cancel out the difference.

He'll, when mariotA got a chance to play an sec defense he had 456 passing yards and 5 total Td's before the end of the 3rd quarter. And of course zero interceptions, because he doesn't believe in those. I wish we could play those sec teams more often so Marcus could pad his stats!

 

[drrew]

Manziel plays in the SEC, you don't put up numbers like you would in CUSA.

A&M has a high powered offense because they have a horrible defense. It's so very un-SEC.

Do you see Manziel's stats? 73% completion, 10.5 YPA, 31 TDs

He threw for 464 against ALABAMA.

First, any arguments that start talking about the big bad SEC immediately lose credibility in Pac12 country.

Second, so Mariota or Petty would be more deserving if they just played on worse teams, had to stay in games, and put up inflated stats? I'm pretty sure Mariota would be putting up equal or greater counting stats to Manziel if the Oregon D was giving up 40 pts per game.

Third, do you see the stats of Mariota or Petty? Between the two of them they have 1 turnover this season. Manziel has a dozen.

Lastly, it doesn't matter whether you or the locals think Manziel is a good guy or not, the perception is that he's a grade A prick, and being that very few of the 1500 or so Heisman trophy voters will ever be in a room with him, the perception matters, and it will cost him votes. As far as my perception of him, I've read his own words, and seen his own actions, and I'm confident in saying I think he's an asshole. A damn fine quarterback, but an asshole nonetheless.

 

[DTexHawk]

Manziel in SEC vs Houston CUSA was in response to you saying that the "system" was the reason and that Keenum had better numbers in it.

No one was comparing SEC vs Pac12.

So much butt hurt going on. :lol:

 

[DTexHawk]

First, any arguments that start talking about the big bad SEC immediately lose credibility in Pac12 country.

Second, so Mariota or Petty would be more deserving if they just played on worse teams, had to stay in games, and put up inflated stats? I'm pretty sure Mariota would be putting up equal or greater counting stats to Manziel if the Oregon D was giving up 40 pts per game.

Third, do you see the stats of Mariota or Petty? Between the two of them they have 1 turnover this season. Manziel has a dozen.

Lastly, it doesn't matter whether you or the locals think Manziel is a good guy or not, the perception is that he's a grade A prick, and being that very few of the 1500 or so Heisman trophy voters will ever be in a room with him, the perception matters, and it will cost him votes. As far as my perception of him, I've read his own words, and seen his own actions, and I'm confident in saying I think he's an asshole. A damn fine quarterback, but an asshole nonetheless.

Manziel has 11 INT's, not sure about fumbles since NCAA doesn't list them. (Mariota had 3, lost 1 against Stanford, which may have contributed to the lack of TOP.)

No one has answered "Who has Baylor played"?

Perception changes when you have thousands of camera's focused on you fulltime.

Being an arrogant prick is a common denominator among star QB's.

 

[JSeahawks]

Being an arrogant prick is a common denominator among star QB's.

Yes, as seahawk fans should know better than anyone, just look what an arrogant prick Russell Wilson has become.

 

[DTexHawk]

Being an arrogant prick is a common denominator among star QB's.

Yes, as seahawk fans should know better than anyone, just look what an arrogant prick Russell Wilson has become.

Exceptions to every rule.

Now name the rest in the NFL that are like Wilson.

 

[kearly]

I think Winston wins it. He's maybe the most likable player in college football right now, whereas Manziel's personality shortcomings are blown out of proportion and led a to a massive amount of groupthink antipathy. Or to put it succinctly, Winston is cool, Manziel is cool to hate.

It's been fun watching JSeahawks thinly veiled Manziel/Mariota biases at work in this thread. Just say you want Mariota to win it, J. This is the one time you can stump for a Duck and not look like a homer for doing so. Mariota has a strong case for the award. Much stronger than whoever happened to get their turn in Baylor's gimmick offense this time around.

 

[DTexHawk]

I think Winston wins it. He's maybe the most likable player in college football right now, whereas Manziel's personality shortcomings are blown out of proportion and led a to a massive amount of groupthink antipathy. Or to put it succinctly, Winston is cool, Manziel is cool to hate.

It's been fun watching JSeahawks thinly veiled Manziel/Mariota biases at work in this thread. Just say you want Mariota to win it, J. This is the one time you can stump for a Duck and not look like a homer for doing so. Mariota has a strong case for the award. Much stronger than whoever happened to get their turn in Baylor's gimmick offense this time around.

This was just posted in another thread:

http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/13/jameis-winston-florida-state-quarterback-investigated-sexual-assault/

 

[JSeahawks]

I think Winston wins it. He's maybe the most likable player in college football right now, whereas Manziel's personality shortcomings are blown out of proportion and led a to a massive amount of groupthink antipathy. Or to put it succinctly, Winston is cool, Manziel is cool to hate.

It's been fun watching JSeahawks thinly veiled Manziel/Mariota biases at work in this thread. Just say you want Mariota to win it, J. This is the one time you can stump for a Duck and not look like a homer for doing so. Mariota has a strong case for the award. Much stronger than whoever happened to get their turn in Baylor's gimmick offense this time around.

Oh, I figured everybody knew who I wanted to win it, and figured it didn't have to be said. I don't think he has a chance though now. Hopefully he at least gets invited to New York for the ceremony. If that doesn't happen they really screwed up.

Mariota is who I want to win it. Petty is who I think will win it. Although I also wouldn't be surprised if they gave it to AJ McCarron as a Lifetime achievement award type thing. Although I think Winston and Manziel may be more deserving then McCarron or Petty, I think things other then their play on the field will prevent them from winning it this year.

 

[Uncle Si]

AJ McCarron.

In the big games, he's been flawless this year.

I agree with this.... very underrated how well he carries his team in the big games.

 

[SeatownJay]

To me the Heisman has become watered down in its importance. For the past couple decades it's simply been an award for the QB (or the occasional RB) from a top 10 team in a BCS conference (preferably one that's contending for a National Championship) that gets the most positive media attention.

 

[drrew]

To me the Heisman has become watered down in its importance. For the past couple decades it's simply been an award for the QB (or the occasional RB) from a top 10 team in a BCS conference (preferably one that's contending for a National Championship) that gets the most positive media attention.

I definitely agree with this. Where are my Gordie Lockbaum's these days? Why shouldn't Jordan Lynch be a real contender this year? Why wasn't Jordan Lynch (3100 yards passing, 1800 yards rushing) a stronger candidate last year? When Bo Jackson won in '85, Auburn was 8-4. He wouldn't get a second look today.

 

[SonicHawk]

Manziel in SEC vs Houston CUSA was in response to you saying that the "system" was the reason and that Keenum had better numbers in it.

No one was comparing SEC vs Pac12.

So much butt hurt going on. :lol:

Yeah, I wasn't in any way suggesting that the SEC was in anyway more difficult than the Pac12, certainly more difficult than the big 12.

Mariotta lost his Heisman bid against Stanford.

Manziel plays on the worst team by far, his stats against the top few opponents are nuts (look 'em up). Winston has come back to earth a bit. He'll have the next two years to win Heisman's.

I think it comes to Manziel and Bryce even though I would pick McCarron.