Miami Trade DB Minkah Fitzpatrick to the Steelers

[Tsixx]

agentdib is the voice of reason

 

[andyh64000]

Give them our first for their 2nd and 5th plus MF. We haven't made a good first round pick since Earl anyway.

 

[Seymour]

I saw a hell of a lot more than 1 bad pass play. I saw Andy flippen Dalton have a career day 400+ against us at home and it was quite sickening to be honest.
That is my voice of "unreason".

 

[QuahHawk]

I agree with Agen Dib as that make a ton of sense logically, emotionally I feel like Seymore I saw the same thing and have to think DB is the weakness on this team.

I am glad Pete is our coach and has literally field one of if not the best secondary in NFL history. I trust his judgement here. I really want to make a SB run this year so if we had to give up a second rounder or maybe a 1st and get back another pick liek a 2nd or 3rd I would be pretty excited and I could image by playoff time Minkah would be ballin in blue.

 

[Hawkpower]

I'd like Fitzpatrick at the right price as well but I think fans may be jumping the gun a little bit here. Pete loves experience on his defense. Read his comments on Lano Hill today:

He's ahead of where he was in terms of awareness of the scheme and what's asked of him and all of that. We're very comfortable with him playing.... He's got all of the right stuff, he just needed to kind of grow up with us and we feel like he's had the time to do that.

That's about a 23 year old player who has been in our system for two and a half years and Pete is just now getting comfortable (maybe) to giving him snaps in his secondary.

Fitzpatrick has a ton of long-term upside but we are in the middle of 2019 NFL season right now and he has no experience with our system. Fans who think we would trade for Fitzpatrick just to immediately slot him in at FS are seriously underestimating how much work NFL athletes put into the game besides simply being fast and having good athleticism.

We could potentially slot him in at big nickel. That's something he does have experience with and requires less scheme knowledge to play.

But why should we give up a high draft pick for a nickel corner when one of Pete's best attributes has been developing those guys? We traded a 7th round pick for Justin Coleman, a 6th round pick for Marcus Burley and drafted Jeremy Lane in the 6th round. Yet for some reason the fan base is suddenly all aboard trading a first round pick for Fitzpatrick. It seems like really short-term thinking mostly driven from seeing one really bad mistake by Thompson last week.

Seattle would have been rightfully intrigued by Fitzpatrick regardless of Thompson's flub last week.

The secondary was already known to be a weakness

 

[Seymour]

IF you have a sure starter this early in his 2nd year that has track record, you take it for a 2nd sorry. Bird in the hand.....

 

[Seafan]

Bob Condotta seems to think the trade is happening right now.

 

[rcaido]

I'd like Fitzpatrick at the right price as well but I think fans may be jumping the gun a little bit here. Pete loves experience on his defense. Read his comments on Lano Hill today:

He's ahead of where he was in terms of awareness of the scheme and what's asked of him and all of that. We're very comfortable with him playing.... He's got all of the right stuff, he just needed to kind of grow up with us and we feel like he's had the time to do that.

That's about a 23 year old player who has been in our system for two and a half years and Pete is just now getting comfortable (maybe) to giving him snaps in his secondary.

Fitzpatrick has a ton of long-term upside but we are in the middle of 2019 NFL season right now and he has no experience with our system. Fans who think we would trade for Fitzpatrick just to immediately slot him in at FS are seriously underestimating how much work NFL athletes put into the game besides simply being fast and having good athleticism.

We could potentially slot him in at big nickel. That's something he does have experience with and requires less scheme knowledge to play.

But why should we give up a high draft pick for a nickel corner when one of Pete's best attributes has been developing those guys? We traded a 7th round pick for Justin Coleman, a 6th round pick for Marcus Burley and drafted Jeremy Lane in the 6th round. Yet for some reason the fan base is suddenly all aboard trading a first round pick for Fitzpatrick. It seems like really short-term thinking mostly driven from seeing one really bad mistake by Thompson last week.

You mean when we started two rookies back to back? Griffin & Flowers. Even Carey Williams got the start without having anytime with us. Our secondary is almost on par w/ our o-line as our weakest point. If we can improve it w/ a 2nd round & 5th, i say go for it. We always trade back our 1st anyway.

Even if he doesn't workout this season, we still have him on the cheap for the next couple years. We can afford to lose draft pick next season.

 

[Seymour]

Bob Condotta seems to think the trade is happening right now.

Hopefully Bob Condotta rocks!! :2thumbs:

He only has to be better than Flowers and Thompson for crying out loud.

 

[Seafan]

Bob Condotta seems to think the trade is happening right now.

Hopefully Bob Condotta rocks!! :2thumbs:

He only has to be better than Flowers and Thompson for crying out loud.

Sorry. That was a fake tweet and I admit I got suckered.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I saw a hell of a lot more than 1 bad pass play. I saw Andy flippen Dalton have a career day 400+ against us at home and it was quite sickening to be honest.
That is my voice of "unreason".

Pretty unreasonable, too. There's more than one player on an NFL defense.

 

[massari]

They already have Blair at safety and Carroll is comparing Parry Nickerson to Coleman, who's on the practice squad learning the defense and will hopefully be signed soon.

3rd tops for Fitzpatrick, who'd also need time to learn the D.

They need those early picks to find a legit starting CB and DL, OL, WR

 

[truehawksfan]

If, and this is a big if, we were to pull off this trade where would Fitz play?

First, he would not play edge CB because he doesn’t meet PC’s requirements. At the combine, he’s listed at 6-0 205 4.4 forty w/31” arms.

So, where did Alabama play him? Nick Saben initially used him as the 5th DB, called Star. It’s primarily a Box safety and he had big results. 10 starts, 3 TFLs and 11 pass break ups. Then Saben moved him to safety. It’s a rover position and he had big results there too, 6 INTs, including 2 pick sixes and 7 pass break ups.

IMO, he would be a dual player, Big nickel...match up against bigger receivers and FS ... a bigger version of Ugo Amadi, who’s 5-9 199 4.5 forty.

But, I really see him at free. He goes from zero to 4.4 quickly, has great range, good tackler (background as a box safety) and is a ball hawk.

IMO, this is Blair’s red shirt year. He needs a solid year of pro football conditioning and weight training to build strength and add weight since he plays and hits like a SS. Lano Hill can play big nickel and SS. T2 is gone. McD’s contract is up after 2020.

This trade will only go thru if the price is right and if PC thinks he can develop this guy into a great DB.

 

[Seymour]

I saw a hell of a lot more than 1 bad pass play. I saw Andy flippen Dalton have a career day 400+ against us at home and it was quite sickening to be honest.
That is my voice of "unreason".

Pretty unreasonable, too. There's more than one player on an NFL defense.

Not to me. Unreasonable would be more like doing nothing when the chance to help the most glaring problem occurs.

With that "more than one player on defense" attitude, the Clowney deal doesn't happen either. :roll:

 

[Scorpion05]

Agentdib makes really good points. My only slight counter argument to that would be that Pete turns players who’d be bench players at best into competent starters. It’s worth instead thinking about this like an Earl Thomas situation. First round talent that Pete can groom into arguably the greatest of all time. Or something close.

That’s worth a trade for. Why wouldn’t you want Pete to get his hands on a 1st round talent like Minkah? Or a Denzel Ward, or someone of that sort?

 

[JayhawkMike]

I want the trade to happen badly. Besides being a good player there is part of me the trusts every other GM to make better first round selections than JS so if a different team picked him in the first round it was probably a good choice.

 

[Fade]

If Pete thinks he can play deep middle (Earl Thomas). They should absolutely pull the trigger on him.

He makes peanuts for the next 3 yrs, and then they can exercise the 5th yr option, to keep him for a 4th season. He will be better than any player they draft in the 2nd rd or 1st for that matter.

Now if Pete doesn't view him as a Free Safety, then I guess don't do it.

I am guessing he does, but there is going to be a lot of competition to acquire him. There is a bidding war going on right now.

 

[Bobblehead]

I"m guessing, even if we give up a first for him.. there will be a lot of happy posters on Seahawks.net..

 

[jmahon316]

I"m guessing, even if we give up a first for him.. there will be a lot of happy posters on Seahawks.net..

Imo if we use him as our FS of the future then yes, I'd be ecstatic. If not, then no -- I wouldn't be comfortable giving a 1st round pick for a NCB

 

[A-Dog]

And now, my bubble is burst:
http://seahawksdraftblog.com/why-a-minkah-fitzpatrick-trade-to-seattle-might-be-unlikely

Agree that a slot isn't worth a 1st, but is a multi-tool who could provide competition for Blair at FS worth a 2nd?

I read this article and it wasn't very convincing to me.

Specifically, it makes a very weak case that Fitzpatrick wouldn't be a great fit as a single high (free) safety in the cover-3, the Earl Thomas role. I don't necessarily agree that he's only worth a top pick if he's going to play FS, but even if I did, I don't see why he should be ruled out as a FS in Seattle's scheme.

Quoting a few sections of the article:

If anyone thinks he can be a long term answer for Seattle as a rangy, single-high safety — I’d say that is unlikely. There’s very little evidence of that.... You’re not acquiring an Earl Thomas type here... He has decent speed (4.46) but not elite speed or range.

The speed/range argument is not backed up by the numbers. We all know that tested times don't always line up with playing speed (anticipation, instincts, decisiveness, etc. come in to play on the field), but Fitzpatrick's raw numbers are better than Earl's and clearly put him at or close to the elite class of speed and range at FS. Listed out their pre-draft combine measurables below, and added T2 and Eric Berry for comparison sake (Eddie Harris, the reigning all-pro FS, did not run prior to the draft so there are no numbers available):

Player_______ / 40-yd / 10-yd / 20-yd / SS / 3-Cone
Earl Thomas ____ / 4.49 / 1.62 / 2.65 / DNP / DNP
Minkah Fitzpatrick / 4.46 / 1.52 / 2.58 / 4.13 / 6.73
Tedric Thompson / 4.60 / 1.63 / 2.68 / 4.36 / 7.11
Eric Berry ______ / 4.47 / 1.58 / 2.64 / 4.23 / 6.80

Fitzpatrick is tops in every test here, and (no surprise) T2 is at the bottom for all of them. He also is well ahead of the field in terms of initial burst/quickness, which is likely a reason he has excelled in the slot. They are all pretty similar in size, with Fitzpatrick the tallest but Berry the heaviest (and with by far the longest arms). At any rate, based on measurables at least, Fitzpatrick absolutely nails the speed requirements here.

EDIT TO ADD: the above numbers are all from the NFL combine but I did some more digging and Earl did improve significantly at his pro day (4.37 40-yd dash - faster than all the above combine numbers). Fitzpatrick did not run the 40 at his pro day so there is no direct comparison there.

A more interesting argument which the article makes is this: if Fitzpatrick is so physically suited to the role of FS in a cover-3 or single-high scheme, why hasn't he been played that way?

I don't think that's an easy question to answer. Does his playing speed not match up to his measurables? Is it because of the schemes/philosophies of those teams? Did his versatility combined with the other personnel available play a role? Based on scouting reports that call out his smarts and instincts as strengths, it seems more likely to be one or both of the latter two.

The PFF ratings that show lower scores at positions other than slot corner do raise a flag, but one could argue that a position like FS requires a lot more experience than slot corner so his lower rating at that position could easily be due to him being moved around so much that it didn't allow him to learn and get comfortable at the position.

Also EDITING TO ADD: the Brett Kollmann video that @blazen2392 referenced above - interesting in that vid that Kollmann called out Miami as a possible landing spot for Fitzpatrick but as a slot corner - which is exactly how Miami used him. Really makes a great case for why Fitzpatrick should be used as a FS:

[youtube]QHmdoPB3SN4[/youtube]