Minn QB Kirk Cousins: Leader of Men or Just Another Stiff?

[chris98251]

I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.

So did Jeff George.

George had a better arm I’d say. But Cousins has one of the best in the league.

Well, from what I've heard, George is widely regarded as perhaps the strongest arm in NFL history. Just a complete knucklehead.

Elway may object to that or Bert Jones and for that matter Warren Moon.

 

[knownone]

I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.

What? Kirk Cousin’s arm is pretty average compared to all of the starters in the NFL. Mahomes, Rodgers, Stafford, and even Kyler Murray blow Cousins out of the water in pure arm talent.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Cousins has a underrated arm and the ability to make big throws in rhythm. Like Russ his passing has evolved. While Russ always had touch he is showing improved pocket passing and volume throws. Cousins was a volume thrower who is showing better touch, efficiency and now willingness to just manage games. Both are great play-action qb and have almost identical stats at this point.... Russ is still more consistent and clutch.
My knock on Cousins is that sometimes he has poor pocket awareness and ball security which dooms his team's comebacks. Russ on the other hand seem to have a spidey sense and has an uncanny feel for pressure or where his receivers will be even in chaos. Unlike Cousins he also knows when to tuck or run.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.

What? Kirk Cousin’s arm is pretty average compared to all of the starters in the NFL. Mahomes, Rodgers, Stafford, and even Kyler Murray blow Cousins out of the water in pure arm talent.

I disagree. He isn't going to burn a cross-stitch into your arms, but he has a very good deep ball and he can easily make every throw. There are, of course, various graduations in arm talent, but if you're top ten or so in arm talent, and I think Cousins is, that is good enough to call "elite" IMHO. Mahomes, by contrast, isn't just elite. He's all time great. Rodgers used to be. Stafford is just behind that. I haven't seen enough of Murray.

 

[chris98251]

Great arms don't make great QB's, it can help but the ability to process information quickly and on the fly sets average apart from great and can also make a great armed QB look all world.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

I shall ask a friend to interject here as well as we are playing them. And will ask another old friend what he thinks on Facebook. Personally I don't know.

 

[knownone]

I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.

What? Kirk Cousin’s arm is pretty average compared to all of the starters in the NFL. Mahomes, Rodgers, Stafford, and even Kyler Murray blow Cousins out of the water in pure arm talent.

I disagree. He isn't going to burn a cross-stitch into your arms, but he has a very good deep ball and he can easily make every throw. There are, of course, various graduations in arm talent, but if you're top ten or so in arm talent, and I think Cousins is, that is good enough to call "elite" IMHO. Mahomes, by contrast, isn't just elite. He's all time great. Rodgers used to be. Stafford is just behind that. I haven't seen enough of Murray.

Ah, elite for me is top 5ish. He does throw a good deep ball and he’s a significantly better QB than a lot of players with better arms. He’s just not a guy whose going to wow you with a 70 yard bomb while he’s falling down like Josh Allen or Mahomes. He’s more in that Jared Goff category of guys who can zip it in when they have time to plant their feet and windup. Not really a knock, just never thought I’d see ‘elite arm’ next to Cousins.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

When the game is on the line? I could think of a LOT of QB's I would rather have than Cousins. Especially a prime time game

 

[NINEster]

Quick take:

If Cousins was seen as a leader of men, he'd still be in DC. I know plenty of Skin fans who hate him, despite pretty decent production. Alex Smith was seen as significantly better in the leadership department.

If Cousins was seen as a leader of men, he might be an elite QB. As a pure thrower of the football, he's very good. What limits him are the intangibles.

He's not prime time proven just yet, or ever.

That's something I don't think even Shanahan could fix.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He can definitely sling it. However, his prime time record is a flat out joke. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't win under the big lights, you're not a big time QB.

 

[SanDiego49er]

Cousins is a lot better than a stiff. But he is not the best guy either. He really looks the part. His height, weight, throwing arm, and mechanics are kind of ideal. It's what you would look for in an "NFL QB." But when it's a big game or going deep in the playoffs against very tough opponents I'm not sure he has it. He will help you win some games and look good doing it throwing with ideal mechanics and pretty spirals. But can he win the really big games on the road? Can he go deep in the playoffs? Can he win huge games? The record seems mixed on this. I'm not sure personally if he can.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.

What? Kirk Cousin’s arm is pretty average compared to all of the starters in the NFL. Mahomes, Rodgers, Stafford, and even Kyler Murray blow Cousins out of the water in pure arm talent.

I disagree. He isn't going to burn a cross-stitch into your arms, but he has a very good deep ball and he can easily make every throw. There are, of course, various graduations in arm talent, but if you're top ten or so in arm talent, and I think Cousins is, that is good enough to call "elite" IMHO. Mahomes, by contrast, isn't just elite. He's all time great. Rodgers used to be. Stafford is just behind that. I haven't seen enough of Murray.

Ah, elite for me is top 5ish. He does throw a good deep ball and he’s a significantly better QB than a lot of players with better arms. He’s just not a guy whose going to wow you with a 70 yard bomb while he’s falling down like Josh Allen or Mahomes. He’s more in that Jared Goff category of guys who can zip it in when they have time to plant their feet and windup. Not really a knock, just never thought I’d see ‘elite arm’ next to Cousins.

I am referring to the fact that he can make every single necessary throw with accuracy and touch appropriate to the situation. If he wasn't a choke artist and was better between the helmet holes he'd be a regular MVP candidate.

 

[Threedee]

Kirk is just good enough to be a highly sought-after commodity in the NFL. You gotta give him credit for making bank off of that.

Also: "You like that? You like that!"

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

He certainly isn't the worst QB in the league.

 

[Uncle Si]

He certainly isn't the worst QB in the league.

He's top 10. Just not top 5. He's certainly worthy of this discussion.

The leader of men idea though... I don't know. People speak very well of him here and he's raised his hand to every mistake he's made as a Viking. I think that says something.

 

[Uncle Si]

0 and forever in primetime games.

 

[olyfan63]

Cousins played well enough to win. Brought his team back from 17 points down in the 4th quarter on the road to within a field goal. Oops. Then Cousins missed that extra point. Wait. You mean Cousins isn't even the kicker, or the holder, or the long snapper? Cousins isn't even on the FG/PAT team personnel? So it was his lack of leadership from the sidelines then?

KIRK COUSINS SUCKS RANTS FOLLOW...
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https://twitter.com/murphmedia_/status/ ... 9868040193
Kirk Cousins simply cannot allow 400-plus yards on defense and expect to be considered an elite quarterback. #Vikings

Kirk Cousins simply cannot allow 210+ rushing yards to an opponent, including nearly every crucial 3rd and 1, and be considered a good big-game quarterback. The worst of Cousins' performance was when he allowed a 29-yard trick play run out of 4th and 2 punt formation. Cousins also simply cannot allow Dalvin Cook to fumble and turn the ball over on a routine running play. To add injury to insult, Cousins' poor decision on the Dalvin Cook fumble play also led to Cook injuring his arm on that play and having Cook, his elite #1 running threat, be unavailable the rest of the game. Cousins has to understand he can't be a truly elite downfield passing threat without a homerun running threat like Cook. Cousins simply has step up his leadership to prevent disastrous plays like this!

Correction: Cousins' worst moment of the night was when he surrendered that long TD pass to the Seahawks David Moore. Where was the safety help Cousins should have provided and that the cornerback was obviously expecting? Simply poor decisionmaking on Cousins' part. For 60 or 80 Kazillion or whatever they're paying Cousins, Vikings fans deserve better!
:sarcasm_off:

ANALYSIS: COUSINS LEADERSHIP IN DIFFICULT CONDITIONS
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OK, getting serious for a minute. Kirk Freakin' Cousins brought his team back from 17 down in the 4th quarter to within a field goal against a red-hot Seahawks team, in a very hostile environment, and missing his #1 offensive weapon, Dalvin Cook. The Vikings, and Cousins, never gave up, never got their heads down, even trailing by 17. I am going to give Cousins some positive leadership points for his role in this. Cousins' leadership and big-game QB status went up in my eyes on this game.

I'm on the fence on this one; Cousins performance in this game swayed me slightly to the Leader-of-Men and emerging potential superstar side of the fence. But, it's not enough. It was still an L for his team. (Happily, as a Seahawks fan) It was, however, encouraging progress.

That stat on Cousins being 0-8 on Monday night? 6 or 7 of those were when he was with the *Redskins*. As we saw in 2017 at CenturyLink in our loss to the Redskins, sometimes Cousins was the reason that Washington won ANY games at all.

I say the real test of Cousins is the upcoming GB game. I think Cousins beats the Packers and Erin in that game; if he does, we can start talking about Cousins shaking the curse.

 

[Uncle Si]

Youre making me argue against cousins, who I like. Seems a good dude.

But this a long list of distractions. He threw the ball in the air over 10 yards just 7 times Monday night. One of those was a broken play. Another was a Pi. The others?

He's an above average QB.. but a leader of men or superstar? Those types win big games.

They certainly don't duck behind the inundation of excuses listed above..

Tell me, as his autobiograoher and full on swim fan.. which of these qbs does cousins replace in a lineup. 5? 6? Less?

Wilson
Machines
Jackson
Murray
Brady
Rodgers
Dax
JG
Watson
Brees

Cousins has emerged above Goff, Rivers, Stafford, Wentz. Does that make him a superstar? A leader of men? (Seriously?)

The Vikings, Zimmer, Cousins are on a precipice. Close to stepping out from.the shadow of disappointment that has defined them the last couple years, or secure themselves as perennial underachievers.

 

[olyfan63]

Let's check in after the Packers game, OK? That is a BIG GAME for the Vikings and their playoff prospects. Bigger for them than the Hawks game. Beating Russell Wilson and the Seahawks at the CLink on Monday Night was always going to be a very, very tall order for ANY QB. Many have tried, nearly all have failed.

Cousins is in his 2nd year now in the Vikes offense, has seen the GB defense a couple times now. Dalvin Cook is supposedly healthy enough to play already, and he should have top receiver Adam Thielen back for that one. If Cousins can beat Aaron Rodgers and the Packers in a big game like that, it's a starting point to prove he can win them.

From your list, I would choose Cousins over Dak and JG. I'd take him over Machines too, because the last Robo-QB, Todd Marinovich, was a bust. But I would clearly choose Mahomes, Watson, and Wilson over Cousins. All the others, it's pretty close, with style differences that make it as much about the fit with the offense. Right now, he's better than an apparently declining Brady.

I think your definition, your expectations, might be loftier than mine. I'm not expecting Cousins to take over a game with athletic or arm talent, like a DeShaun Watson, or Patrick Mahomes. He's a guy who needs a full team and a defense around him, and some good receivers, and can't single-handedly make up for team limitations in that area. His ceiling might be Matt Ryan in the 28-3 SB lead season. Matty Ice also had Julio in his prime to throw to, a nice security blanket. If Cousins can beat GB and lead the Vikes to a division title, AND a home playoff win, that would be a good showing, justifying the money Minny spent to get him. My standard is more, can Cousins do for Minny what Matty Ice did for the Falcons, what Nick Foles did for the Eagles, what Eli did in some past seasons for the Giants. I'm not expecting Joe Montana, Steve Young, or peak Brady.

 

[Uncle Si]

Foles, Ryan, Eli have all played in Super Bowls. That goal is about the only justification for the 80 million fully guaranteed contract he signed.

He was brought in to balance an excellent defense with a skilled offense, pushing them over the top. Those aren't my lofty goals, those are the teams.

He's not doing it... and it's not just on Monday night.

I live in MN so I hear this every day... majority of people are happy with him. He's cleaned up his fumbles, bad INTs and isn't sewing passes knocked down as much. But hes got a much better running game and short passing compliment now do he doesn't HAVE to make big throws, where he was getting in trouble last year.