My sentiment exactly

[morgulon1]

These players are responsible themselves for these dumb penalties. Pete said again today that it is a focal point in game preparations. That’s all the coaches can do. On game day it is up to players to play smart football. Especially the defensive backs need understand that NFL refs nowadays call DPI very tight — more than I have ever seen in my decades of watching games. The rules and the refs have the deck stacked against them.

Obviously the coach isn't getting through to these players. It would be like a manager at a company telling the owner
" Hey I told them but they didn't do it. What do you expect?"

 

[Xxx]

First of all I want to say that I don't "hate" Pete Carroll . I've defended him more than many others on .net . But something snapped in me today and I have grown weary of 10 years of underwhelming to slightly above average play. Most coaches don't get this many seasons to shit the bed. I know , a Superbowl win buys someone a lot of goodwill but damn.

I copied and pasted some dudes post on Fieldgulls because it perfectly summed up my feelings on where they're at as a team.

"This feels like one of the first times that Schneider and Carroll's contributions to the team can be divorced from each other. The talent that Schneider has acquired should be performing way way better than this, and the mistakes that are getting made like the horrible, never-ending penalty issues, play sequencing into 3rd down ineptitude, and frequent personnel misusage (rotating right tackles, complete disappearance of the tight end, Dee Eskridge as kick returner) are because of the coaching. The pieces are there, but there needs to be somebody new to put them in place."

Sorry for stealing dude's quote.

Well said. Sometimes you just gotta let someone else say it. The divorce between the contributions of Pete and John… that’s good stuff

 

[olyfan63]

T

That is such bullsh!t. You sound like a disgruntled employee!

You use any excuse you can to put down this team. Let's say Pete does get fired... you won't stop. It will just be some one else to bitch at. You remind me of my ex wife!

When are you going to get a clue..I'm mean who care you Russ Wilson's ball boy? LMAO!!

You have turned this board into a wallowing haven of negativity for at least 5 years. I've NEVER seen anything like it..

LTH

It's not that I disagree with you, it's just that it's such a waste of your valuable energy to get worked up about Fade's posts.

Start with the assumption that Fade's takes are deliberate comedy, and look for the 40% that's typically true. Every now and then Fade really nails it with 80% or more of his post "objectively true" and the other 20% "somewhat plausible". Often he presents interesting analyses and questions, yes, often coming from a nattering nabobs of negativity place, but still entertaining.

I don't recall if it was Fade who pointed out the Seattle D investment vs. the Rams D investment, and how much more ROI the Rams seemed to be getting on their investment, but it was a really interesting point. Yes, there were some omissions and questionable assumptions, but a great discussion question. Why aren't the Hawks closer to a top-10 Defense with all the investment? (being discussed in that thread, not here)

I always appreciate people who tell me, with well-thought-out reasons, why some big decision I'm about to make is a shitty decision (or some opinion/belief I hold), and why I shouldn't do (or believe) that. Then it gives me a target to shoot at--can I answer their objections, in at least my own mind, by checking my own assumptions and finding high-quality data?

I've pretty much given up the idea of betting a $thou on the Hawks to win the Lombardi this year, give Fade very limited partial credit, but emotionally, I can sure root and hope for them, that Pete Carroll somehow pulls a rabbit out of his ass.

 

[olyfan63]

Obviously the coach isn't getting through to these players. It would be like a manager at a company telling the owner
" Hey I told them but they didn't do it. What do you expect?"

And it's certainly NOT an issue unique to the Seahawks. Through the magic of RedZone, I've seen SO MANY NFL games this year being impacted by game-changing DPI or PF calls (or sometimes by non-calls). In the absence of actual data, it seems like the Hawks are about "NFL-Average" on DPI and PF penalties. Definitely with room for improvement, of course.

Now Riq's hands-to-the-face penalty, and Spoon's personal foul Suplex throw penalties, those were both just DUMB. Both are still very young players, and Spoon for sure, and probably Riq too, took ownership of their mistakes and acknowledged they hurt the team.

 

[hedgehawk]

T

That is such bullsh!t. You sound like a disgruntled employee!

You use any excuse you can to put down this team. Let's say Pete does get fired... you won't stop. It will just be some one else to bitch at. You remind me of my ex wife!

When are you going to get a clue..I'm mean who care you Russ Wilson's ball boy? LMAO!!

You have turned this board into a wallowing haven of negativity for at least 5 years. I've NEVER seen anything like it..

LTH

Truth!

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Obviously the coach isn't getting through to these players. It would be like a manager at a company telling the owner
" Hey I told them but they didn't do it. What do you expect?"

So, players have no responsibility for 130 yards of dumb penalties ??

 

[ccla]

So, players have no responsibility for 130 yards of dumb penalties ??

Of course they do but it is up to carrol to put in place corrective actions tha actually correct the problem. It seems he is incapable of doing it as the same problem happen in every single mother….. game.

 

[morgulon1]

So, players have no responsibility for 130 yards of dumb penalties ??

No Bear-Hawk . They 100% do. I'm saying they have a boss that is ultimately responsible for the direction of the team. Maybe the President of football operations? He is ultimately responsible for the conduct of the players . 100+ yards in penalties is unthinkable in my mind. Yes the officiating was sickening but damn .

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Of course they do but it is up to carrol to put in place corrective actions tha actually correct the problem. It seems he is incapable of doing it as the same problem happen in every single mother….. game.

The team can always resort to benching, fining, or cutting the player. You can try to coach them every practice on playing smart football, but it’s up to the players to carry it into Sunday.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

The genius wonder boy McVay has a SB winning QB, HOF DT, and a host of WR that put up numbers to go along with his super duper planning and next level scheme… yet his team is trash for the second year in a row and put up a whopping 17 points… with 7 of those coming after what everyone agrees was an incorrect PI.
Side note, Rams had 9 penalties for 92 yards… is McVay terrible at bringing discipline to his team?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The genius wonder boy McVay has a SB winning QB, HOF DT, and a host of WR that put up numbers to go along with his super duper planning and next level scheme… yet his team is trash for the second year in a row and put up a whopping 17 points… with 7 of those coming after what everyone agrees was an incorrect PI.
Side note, Rams had 9 penalties for 92 yards… is McVay terrible at bringing discipline to his team?

Wow, almost half as much as the Hawks.

If we only commit 92 yards of penalties, we win the game. So yes, it matters.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

Wow, almost half as much as the Hawks.

If we only commit 92 yards of penalties, we win the game. So yes, it matters.

You should check your math.
Literally one PI call was the difference.

9-92 is discipline…got it

 

[morgulon1]

The genius wonder boy McVay has a SB winning QB, HOF DT, and a host of WR that put up numbers to go along with his super duper planning and next level scheme… yet his team is trash for the second year in a row and put up a whopping 17 points… with 7 of those coming after what everyone agrees was an incorrect PI.
Side note, Rams had 9 penalties for 92 yards… is McVay terrible at bringing discipline to his team?

Interesting thought. I'll ask were the Ram penalties drive extending, game slanting type that switched the field ? At the worst possible time?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

You should check your math.
Literally one PI call was the difference.

9-92 is discipline…got it

You're equating two things using a factor that's half the size of the other factor. And I'm the one who should check my math lol.

2nd drive of the game was completely ruined by bush league penalties. Motion, delay of game and holding............all preventing a successful scoring drive.

Woolen kept a Ram's scoring drive alive with another hands to the face penalty. His what, 2nd or 3rd of those of the year? Refs gonna call that EVERY time.

So sorry dude, it wasn't just one bad PI. Stop making excuses for a horribly executed and disciplined game by a woefully underperforming roster and coaches. The Hawks have TWICE as much talent as the Rams, yet here we are once again explaining away poor coaching and execution.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

You're equating two things using a factor that's half the size of the other factor. And I'm the one who should check my math lol.

2nd drive of the game was completely ruined by bush league penalties. Motion, delay of game and holding............all preventing a successful scoring drive.

Woolen kept a Ram's scoring drive alive with another hands to the face penalty. His what, 2nd or 3rd of those of the year? Refs gonna call that EVERY time.

So sorry dude, it wasn't just one bad PI. Stop making excuses for a horribly executed and disciplined game by a woefully underperforming roster and coaches. The Hawks have TWICE as much talent as the Rams, yet here we are once again explaining away poor coaching and execution.

9-92
12-130
92 is not half of 130
1 PI was 45 yards
Minus 1 PI and the Hawks have..
11-85

I didn’t say the game hinged on one penalty.
I said it was one penalty difference in penalty yards.

And I didn’t excuse the way they played, I simply pointed out that the genius McVay had nearly the exact penalty problem yesterday.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

9-92
12-130
92 is not half of 130
1 PI was 45 yards
Minus 1 PI and the Hawks have..
11-85

I didn’t say the game hinged on one penalty.
I said it was one penalty difference in penalty yards.

And I didn’t excuse the way they played, I simply pointed out that the genius McVay had nearly the exact penalty problem yesterday.

Does McVay have a 12 year track record of being the coach of a top 10 most penalized team in the NFL seemingly every year including this year?

I think only 3 of Pete's tenure here hasn't resulted in being a top 10 team in penalties with at least 4-5 years as THE most penalized team.

So yeah dude, it's a problem........and it's not the old school overly aggressive/physical penalties like the LOB years. It's the undisciplined dumb kind.

 

[toffee]

My flag more or less reflected how I feel today.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

Since 2017 McVay had more ppg than the Hawks only once.
The other years were all separated by less than 2 penalties per game.
That is not very dramatic.

And according to .net at least half the Hawks penalties are scripted by the league to steer games so….

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Since 2017 McVay had more ppg than the Hawks only once.
The other years were all separated by less than 2 penalties per game.
That is not very dramatic.

And according to .net at least half the Hawks penalties are scripted by the league to steer games so….

Wait, you just told me we lost cause of the difference of one penalty. So sounds like two per game does matter.

Not sure why you don't think committing way too many penalties matters, especially with an offense that's struggling to move the ball for very large portions of games where they continue to have drives stall and derailed due to dumb penalties.............and a defense that continues to help other teams extend drives, also with dumb penalties.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

2022 SB winner KC 4.9 Sea 6.2
1.3 ppg difference
2021 SB Rams 4.3 Sea 5.7
1.4 ppg
2020 SB TB 5.0 Sea 5.5
0.5 ppg
2019 SB KC 6.5 Sea 7.0
0.5 ppg
2018 SB NE 5.8 Sea 6.8
1.0 ppg

NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Penalties per Game | TeamRankings.com

NFL Football penalties per game, by team.

www.teamrankings.com

Wait, you just told me we lost cause of the difference of one penalty. So sounds like two per game does matter.

Not sure why you don't think committing way too many penalties matters, especially with an offense that's struggling to move the ball for very large portions of games where they continue to have drives stall and derailed due to dumb penalties.............and a defense that continues to help other teams extend drives, also with dumb penalties.

I never said they lost because of one penalty.

“ I didn’t say the game hinged on one penalty.
I said it was one penalty difference in penalty yards.”
Do you see my exact quote…