My sentiment exactly

[cymatica]

Since 2017 McVay had more ppg than the Hawks only once.
The other years were all separated by less than 2 penalties per game.
That is not very dramatic.

And according to .net at least half the Hawks penalties are scripted by the league to steer games so….

Ppg tells only part of the story. I would like to see how they compare with penalties on 3rd downs or other impactful moments. Seems like their penalties come at the worst moments way too often. 1 or 2 penalties can make all the difference when it happens on a 3rd down stop or a TD

 

[Sgt. Largent]

2022 SB winner KC 4.9 Sea 6.2
1.3 ppg difference
2021 SB Rams 4.3 Sea 5.7
1.4 ppg
2020 SB TB 5.0 Sea 5.5
0.5 ppg
2019 SB KC 6.5 Sea 7.0
0.5 ppg
2018 SB NE 5.8 Sea 6.8
1.0 ppg

NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Penalties per Game | TeamRankings.com

NFL Football penalties per game, by team.

www.teamrankings.com

I never said they lost because of one penalty.

“ I didn’t say the game hinged on one penalty.
I said it was one penalty difference in penalty yards.”
Do you see my exact quote…

I see an argumentative forum member trying to prove a point me and no one else was even arguing in the first place.

This is, and has been a very undisciplined team for the entire length of our head coach's tenure in Seattle........and it certainly was a MAJOR factor, if not THE most important factor in yesterday's loss. Dumb undisciplined penalties.

I don't give a rat's ass how that compares to Sean McVay, or how Rams fan view him as the same, or different.

Are we good now?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

3rd and long, we get a stop.......hands to the face. Undiciplined.
This team is OFTEN doing stupid sh** after big plays. Or, to ruin great plays. Pete ball.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

I see an argumentative forum member trying to prove a point me and no one else was even arguing in the first place.

This is, and has been a very undisciplined team for the entire length of our head coach's tenure in Seattle........and it certainly was a MAJOR factor, if not THE most important factor in yesterday's loss. Dumb undisciplined penalties.

I don't give a rat's ass how that compares to Sean McVay, or how Rams fan view him as the same, or different.

Are we good now?

You quoted my original post that was comparing penalties in the game and how McVays squad wasn’t much better.
You then went on to post some suspect math and claimed I was saying something I clearly didn’t.

So now I guess that with your bad math I can add poor reading comprehension.
Are we good now?

Penalties suck, they need to be better.
They overcame all of their penalties yesterday and had a chance to win..despite them.

I gave a link above, you can see for yourself. Fewer penalties doesn’t always equate to more wins. Just check the top ten teams each year, a lot of non playoff teams.

 

[JustTheTip]

I don't hate Pete either. I think he's the greatest coach this franchise has ever had. The culture he brought here, the winning, the Superbowl, all if it has been a great ride.

But it's time. I want him to go out on good terms and let a different coach with a new perspective, a new philosophy on both sides of the ball, to take the reigns.

They've drafted themselves some good young talent in various key spots on the club. Once they get out from under Adams' contract that should free them up to make some other moves too.

All in all, I will ALWAYS appreciate coach Carroll for what he brought to our favorite team. But watching these games for the past 7-8 years have become so stale, so predictable, that if I know what we're about to run, then the other team knows too.

I want Carroll to ride off into the sunset amicably, spend time with his wife sitting on the beach chewing his gum. But it's time for a new head coach. We need to change our schemes on both sides of the ball.

The unfortunate part is for all the amazing things he did early he may burn it all to the ground before he leaves.

 

[PeruHawk]

I don’t believe so. Left end zone with perfect coverage.

Re-watch that play if you can. Witherspoon grabbed the receiver's back arm, and that caused his stumble. It was a good PI call.

 

[ccla]

The team can always resort to benching, fining, or cutting the player. You can try to coach them every practice on playing smart football, but it’s up to the players to carry it into Sunday.

I understand, but this has been going on since Carrol started. You will put up with it when things are going great (LOB), but when the risk is not worth the reward, you have to put your foot down.

 

[ccla]

I understand, but this has been going on since Carrol started. You will put up with it when things are going great (LOB), but when the risk is not worth the reward, you have to put your foot down.

And actually no, from a coach perspective he should always discipline the players that commit foolish fouls. Now, he may since I am not privy to what happens behind closed doors, but apparently even if he does it does not show!

 

[hawker84]

A big yawn. When haven’t the Hawks under Pete been the most penalized team in the league? It’s part of the deal. Play the ball. Love made a bad penalty, Riq’s penalty was garbage. It’s all Pete though. Even though both players were in perfect position.

Dead ball penalties, like suplexing a dude is inexcusable, DKs antics before he got a talkin to. It's the same ole crap year in and year out...

 

[renofox]

It's amazing how often this team commits penalties on 3rd down stops. Extending a drive instead of forcing a punt is just a killer. The Seahawks do this far too often

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And have for a decade plus under Pete. This is a 10 plus year pattern under Pete. Period.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's amazing how often this team commits penalties on 3rd down stops. Extending a drive instead of forcing a punt is just a killer. The Seahawks do this far too often

Listen to player press conferences, they reveal a LOT about the culture and issues with the coaching staff.

When DK's at the mic and defiantly says he's not going to change who he is after his 4th or 5th stupid personal foul penalty.......and yesterday Woolen says his hands to the face penalty giving the Rams pretty much the game on their last drive "BS" and "ticky tack."

That's not a player issue, that's a coaching issue. As in Pete and his staff aren't making sure their players understand the difference between imposing their will and getting good penalties that accomplish that.............and committing undisciplined stupid penalties that lead to games being lost.

 

[renofox]

Listen to player press conferences, they reveal a LOT about the culture and issues with the coaching staff.

When DK's at the mic and defiantly says he's not going to change who he is after his 4th or 5th stupid personal foul penalty.......and yesterday Woolen says his hands to the face penalty giving the Rams pretty much the game on their last drive "BS" and "ticky tack."

That's not a player issue, that's a coaching issue. As in Pete and his staff aren't making sure their players understand the difference between imposing their will and getting good penalties that accomplish that.............and committing undisciplined stupid penalties that lead to games being lost.

I'll quote myself from a GameDay thread re: Woolen saying the hands to the face was a "BS call".

The implications a tremendously bad.

If a young player feels comfortable saying that, it means he is operating in an environment with NO accountability.

PC has never held players accountable, but if you listen to LOB-era players talking you consistently hear about how they all held each other accountable. This covered for one of PC's biggest flaws.

I thought we brought Bobby and other vets in for leadership. That means the vets should be creating an environment where accountability is stressed. They are not.

It appears we have a huge failure of leadership on this team.

 

[morgulon1]

Jamal Jones
Quandre Diggs
Mr Wagner

A lot of resources tied up in what should be veteran leadership. They need to move on from the safety duo

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'll quote myself from a GameDay thread re: Woolen saying the hands to the face was a "BS call".

Bingo.


And I feel like I'm coming down on Pete hard today, and maybe I am. I love the culture he's established her. I love that he lets his players be themselves, and most of the time govern themselves.

But if he doesn't see that this isn't the same roster as the LOB years when his team can lead the league in penalties but have so much talent it doesn't matter? Then idk what to say.

They don't have the talent, the margin for error with this roster is thin.......they cannot afford to commit 100 yards in penalties every game, and have no accountability for it. That's a recipe for 9-7 seasons with a 12-5 roster.

 

[renofox]

Bingo.


And I feel like I'm coming down on Pete hard today, and maybe I am. I love the culture he's established her. I love that he lets his players be themselves, and most of the time govern themselves.

But if he doesn't see that this isn't the same roster as the LOB years when his team can lead the league in penalties but have so much talent it doesn't matter? Then idk what to say.

They don't have the talent, the margin for error with this roster is thin.......they cannot afford to commit 100 yards in penalties every game, and have no accountability for it. That's a recipe for 9-7 seasons with a 12-5 roster.

Exactly.

Pete must be self-aware by now that his style of personal unaccountabilty requires locker room leadership to take up the slack.

Hell, he saw how making a special rule for RW where his teammates could not hold him accountable like every other player lead to the acrimonious end of the LOB era.

Why he's not addressing this issue is beyond understanding.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

Interesting Hawks penalty history.

2004 Hawks were #1 in the league at 5.2 ppg
They lost the wildcard game to the Rams and committed 9 penalties

2005 Hawks were again #1
At 5.8 ppg
They lost the SB committing 7 penalties

2007 #1 again with an amazing
3.4 ppg
Bounced in the divisional round
42-20

2013 worst in the league
7.9 ppg
Won the SB committing 8

2014 worst in the league again
8.0 ppg
Lost he SB committing 8

2020 Pete’s best year
5.5 ppg
Bounced in the WC by the Rams

2021 second best year
5.7 ppg
His worst year as a Hawk 7-10

Penalties suck, fewer never hurts.
I just don’t see a direct correlation between winning and fewer ppg. The Hawks have had success and failure from both extremes.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I just don’t see a direct correlation between winning and fewer ppg. The Hawks have had success and failure from both extremes.

Because you're not differentiating between good and bad penalties. Physicality/imposing will penalties can be good. Procedural and poorly times undisciplined penalties are bad. Especially for a team that doesn't have the talent to overcome 100 yards in penalties every game, as was on clear display yesterday.

But you're not alone in your confusion. Pete is obviously also confused, thus never doing anything about it.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

Absolutely no confusion. And I don’t think Pete is either.
I provide a handful of examples showing winning/losing is not solely attributed to penalties.

The difference in Hawks ppg compared to SB winners the last 5 years has been LESS than 1.5 per game.

virtually every great coach has had years where they committed as many or more ppg.
Does that mean they had no discipline, didn’t care, or didn’t know how to coach?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Absolutely no confusion. And I don’t think Pete is either.
I provide a handful of examples showing winning/losing is not solely attributed to penalties.

The difference in Hawks ppg compared to SB winners the last 5 years has been LESS than 1.5 per game.

virtually every great coach has had years where they committed as many or more ppg.
Does that mean they had no discipline, didn’t care, or didn’t know how to coach?

The Patriots put together a 20 year run with six rings being one of the least penalized teams in the league year after year.

It doesn't take a MENSA analyst to know that the fewer mistakes you make, the better chances you have of winning games. Again, especially for a marginal roster that has great difficulty overcoming mistakes.

It's OK if you don't think so, but it matters.........and no credible coach or analyst will tell you any different. Including Pete himself;

"This was a most disappointing loss for us today, because of the way we did it," Carroll said. "We made it really hard on ourselves so many times in this game with the calls that were made. And I'm not disputing any of them, just in general today it really blew up on us and gave them a really good chance to take advantage of it and they did.
"I'm really disappointed because it feels like we did that to ourselves, and we talked so much about that. We're trying to make sure that that's not part of our game and shoot, it was the biggest part of the game, I thought. Nice job by them to finish it, they did a good job to do what they needed to do with the clock and all that, but they gave us a chance, and Geno was able to pop back out there, threw a couple of great balls to give us a shot, and we just didn't get our field goal to win the game. That's kind of what the NFL is. You have those opportunities, you create those, and then you've got to try to make them. Unfortunately, you don't make them all. Last week was our game, this week was their game."