NFL network game day staff agree

[firebee]

We didn't plan to attack their weekness. Dion in particular said the cow boys have trouble with tight ends. He didn't think they could have stopped Jimmy Graham on short crossing routes. LT said behind our offensive line that we can't go run, run, pass and sustain drives expecting Russell to bail us out on third and long time after time. We need to understand that just getting Lynch one on one with a DB is no longer an automatic win. Mooch thought we have kept Russell on the move and away from Greg Hardy. Also for the last three seasons Dion has been pointing out that our routes are too easy to diagnose and defend.

None of this is news to us but Pete isn't going to change how he calls things when it still leads to wins.

I don't know what the hell LT is talking about. Did he watch the game? We were passing on 1st downs and 3rd downs in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. We had a 2-1 pass-run ratio in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Dallas has one of the top ten worst run defenses in the NFL according to football outsiders DVOA rankings. They're much better against the pass than they are the run. When we focused on running the ball, 1st quarter and 4th quarter; we sustained drives and scored points.

I do agree with Deion... Our routes and route combinations are so pathetically plain that it makes it easy for opposing defenses to cover our receivers, a major reason why our receivers can't seem to create separation no matter who we have at receiver. Our passing plays don't shift coverages or split coverages with the route combinations and help receivers get open. They don't exploit voids in zone coverage. Bevell's passing plays are, pretty much, infuriating. I can't stand them. I swear... We could have OBJ and Julio Jones at WR and our passing game would still be pathetic because the design of our passing plays don't kick receivers free and help them get open.

 

[mrt144]

We didn't plan to attack their weekness. Dion in particular said the cow boys have trouble with tight ends. He didn't think they could have stopped Jimmy Graham on short crossing routes. LT said behind our offensive line that we can't go run, run, pass and sustain drives expecting Russell to bail us out on third and long time after time. We need to understand that just getting Lynch one on one with a DB is no longer an automatic win. Mooch thought we have kept Russell on the move and away from Greg Hardy. Also for the last three seasons Dion has been pointing out that our routes are too easy to diagnose and defend.

None of this is news to us but Pete isn't going to change how he calls things when it still leads to wins.

I don't know what the hell LT is talking about. Did he watch the game? We were passing on 1st downs and 3rd downs in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. We had a 2-1 pass-run ratio in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Dallas has one of the top ten worst run defenses in the NFL according to football outsiders DVOA rankings. They're much better against the pass than they are the run. When we focused on running the ball, 1st quarter and 4th quarter; we sustained drives and scored points.

I do agree with Deion... Our routes and route combinations are so pathetically plain that it makes it easy for opposing defenses to cover our receivers, a major reason why our receivers can't seem to create separation no matter who we have at receiver. Our passing plays don't shift coverages or split coverages with the route combinations and help receivers get open. They don't exploit voids in zone coverage. Bevell's passing plays are, pretty much, infuriating. I can't stand them. I swear... We could have OBJ and Julio Jones at WR and our passing game would still be pathetic because the design of our passing plays don't kick receivers free and help them get open.

To me, it seems like if the Hawks had more talent at WR and/or QB the routes wouldnt matter as much since superior talent would be creating the opportunities but as it stands - we don't and we will not and simply wishing players to get better doesn't make it so.

The Patriots have the talent and then couple that with the crossing pick schemes (hell you even saw Denver tear up the Packers last night with this) and it's just out of control. Yet, the Hawks are loathe to consistently do anything like that.

 

[Siouxhawk]

We didn't plan to attack their weekness. Dion in particular said the cow boys have trouble with tight ends. He didn't think they could have stopped Jimmy Graham on short crossing routes. LT said behind our offensive line that we can't go run, run, pass and sustain drives expecting Russell to bail us out on third and long time after time. We need to understand that just getting Lynch one on one with a DB is no longer an automatic win. Mooch thought we have kept Russell on the move and away from Greg Hardy. Also for the last three seasons Dion has been pointing out that our routes are too easy to diagnose and defend.

None of this is news to us but Pete isn't going to change how he calls things when it still leads to wins.

I don't know what the hell LT is talking about. Did he watch the game? We were passing on 1st downs and 3rd downs in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. We had a 2-1 pass-run ratio in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Dallas has one of the top ten worst run defenses in the NFL according to football outsiders DVOA rankings. They're much better against the pass than they are the run. When we focused on running the ball, 1st quarter and 4th quarter; we sustained drives and scored points.

I do agree with Deion... Our routes and route combinations are so pathetically plain that it makes it easy for opposing defenses to cover our receivers, a major reason why our receivers can't seem to create separation no matter who we have at receiver. Our passing plays don't shift coverages or split coverages with the route combinations and help receivers get open. They don't exploit voids in zone coverage. Bevell's passing plays are, pretty much, infuriating. I can't stand them. I swear... We could have OBJ and Julio Jones at WR and our passing game would still be pathetic because the design of our passing plays don't kick receivers free and help them get open.

Seems to me our receivers were able to get open when they needed to with the game on the line. Russ also missed on some completion opportunities that were open. Our passing concepts work fine

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The Patriots have the talent and then couple that with the crossing pick schemes (hell you even saw Denver tear up the Packers last night with this) and it's just out of control. Yet, the Hawks are loathe to consistently do anything like that.

You just named two teams with HOF QB's and fantastic O-lines. Two QB's btw that have forgotten more about reading defenses than Russell knows in year #4.

Complicated offensive schemes, formations, routes, etc require mastery at every position in that offensive unit. Our O-line right now can barely pass protect for simple quick slants, bubble screens and seam routes, what makes you think they can handle complicated schemes like the Broncos and Patriots run?

 

[mrt144]

The Patriots have the talent and then couple that with the crossing pick schemes (hell you even saw Denver tear up the Packers last night with this) and it's just out of control. Yet, the Hawks are loathe to consistently do anything like that.

You just named two teams with HOF QB's and fantastic O-lines. Two QB's btw that have forgotten more about reading defenses than Russell knows in year #4.

Complicated offensive schemes, formations, routes, etc require mastery at every position in that offensive unit. Our O-line right now can barely pass protect for simple quick slants, bubble screens and seam routes, what makes you think they can handle complicated schemes like the Broncos and Patriots run?

It's not inherently complicated though. It's not. I believe simple and complicated is a false dichotomy here. There's nothing complicated in slants and crossing routes or routes up the seam and yet the attempts on those routes are limited.

Both the Pats and Broncos get far more out of the scheme because of talent than the Hawks would but the Hawks are barely even trying to replicate - a 3rd and 6 with a slant to Graham with Lockett taking the close cover man out of the play with his body is as close as you'll ever come to seeing something Patsish on our offense.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Both the Pats and Broncos get far more out of the scheme because of talent than the Hawks would but the Hawks are barely even trying to replicate - a 3rd and 6 with a slant to Graham with Lockett taking the close cover man out of the play with his body is as close as you'll ever come to seeing something Patsish on our offense.

Again, the key to the Pats and Broncos passing success is having those HOF QB's recognizing defenses, changing plays, formations, moving protection around, etc...............and THEN having the receivers, RB's and most importantly O-lines to execute.

We have about 30-40% of that on our offense, with a QB that's still trying to figure out how to recognize defenses and get the right play and protection called.

Btw, it's not like those offenses are infallible, just ask the 2012 Broncos.

I understand the criticism of wanting a more dynamic harder to defend offense, I do. But it's not all playcalling is my point.

 

[mrt144]

Both the Pats and Broncos get far more out of the scheme because of talent than the Hawks would but the Hawks are barely even trying to replicate - a 3rd and 6 with a slant to Graham with Lockett taking the close cover man out of the play with his body is as close as you'll ever come to seeing something Patsish on our offense.

Again, the key to the Pats and Broncos passing success is having those HOF QB's recognizing defenses, changing plays, formations, moving protection around, etc...............and THEN having the receivers, RB's and most importantly O-lines to execute.

We have about 30-40% of that on our offense, with a QB that's still trying to figure out how to recognize defenses and get the right play and protection called.

Btw, it's not like those offenses are infallible, just ask the 2012 Broncos.

I understand the criticism of wanting a more dynamic harder to defend offense, I do. But it's not all playcalling is my point.

Absolutely it's not just play calling, and it never will be. I know that Bevell can only do so much with his time and the practices, etc etc but on the other hand 3rd and 4 with go routes...why not go for the first down with a similar pick play?

I don't have all the answers, for sure, but by the eye test and the stats the Hawks look anemic on offense, especially in the red zone and it seems like it can only improve but here we are...13-12 with decent opportunities left on the field.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

..........What's driving me crazy is seeing Russell throwing low percentage long sideline routes on 3rd and manageble for incompletions.

Offense is still overall hard to watch, not dynamic and productive enough for me to completely get back on board with another playoff run. Still too many 3 and outs, 3rd down conversions need to be more, red zone still stinks.

Good game plan though by Bevell, Pete and Russell to move the pocket around so Russell wasn't getting sacked and hit.

This, this and this! It was better yesterday but why has it taken basically 2 years to do what many here have been screaming for since the debacle in St. Louis in our Super Bowl winning year when Russ got sacked and pressured on nearly every play, namely move the pocket around and throw more short passes?

And yeah, those sideline routes to guys that don't have elite speed (Baldwin) are very low percentage. To me that's a poor design and poor choice all rolled into one.

Run blocking in red zone needs to improve but that ain't on Siouxhawk's son........er, Bevell.

 

[TheHawkster]

Petes/Bevells risk management offense against bad offenses gets hammered all the time.

I'm used to the fact that there will be none of the fun side of our playbook vs bad teams.

 

[firebee]

We didn't plan to attack their weekness. Dion in particular said the cow boys have trouble with tight ends. He didn't think they could have stopped Jimmy Graham on short crossing routes. LT said behind our offensive line that we can't go run, run, pass and sustain drives expecting Russell to bail us out on third and long time after time. We need to understand that just getting Lynch one on one with a DB is no longer an automatic win. Mooch thought we have kept Russell on the move and away from Greg Hardy. Also for the last three seasons Dion has been pointing out that our routes are too easy to diagnose and defend.

None of this is news to us but Pete isn't going to change how he calls things when it still leads to wins.

I don't know what the hell LT is talking about. Did he watch the game? We were passing on 1st downs and 3rd downs in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. We had a 2-1 pass-run ratio in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Dallas has one of the top ten worst run defenses in the NFL according to football outsiders DVOA rankings. They're much better against the pass than they are the run. When we focused on running the ball, 1st quarter and 4th quarter; we sustained drives and scored points.

I do agree with Deion... Our routes and route combinations are so pathetically plain that it makes it easy for opposing defenses to cover our receivers, a major reason why our receivers can't seem to create separation no matter who we have at receiver. Our passing plays don't shift coverages or split coverages with the route combinations and help receivers get open. They don't exploit voids in zone coverage. Bevell's passing plays are, pretty much, infuriating. I can't stand them. I swear... We could have OBJ and Julio Jones at WR and our passing game would still be pathetic because the design of our passing plays don't kick receivers free and help them get open.

Seems to me our receivers were able to get open when they needed to with the game on the line. Russ also missed on some completion opportunities that were open. Our passing concepts work fine

Bwahahahaha.... Our passing game is ranked 26th in the NFL with Graham, Lynch out of the backfield, Baldwin as a possession receiver and Lockett as a burner. Our QB leads the league in sacks because he gets stuck holding on to the ball too long while he waits for a receiver to get some kind of separation, but please tell me more about how our passing concepts work fine. Our passing concept, for the most part, is a very vanilla homerun-checkdown passing concept. Our passing concepts are dependent on our offense establishing a running game and getting the safeties to cheat up, so our receivers can go up for jump balls downfield on a go route or skinny post and, hopefully, beat the man that's inevitably on them, because the route combinations don't trick defenders into covering the wrong receiver or getting out of their zone. How much YAC did our receivers get on all those completions because they were so wide open that they had a defender on them almost immediately after making a catch or on them while they were making a catch. Yep... Our passing game is just fine.... SMDH.

 

[Hawks46]

The Patriots have the talent and then couple that with the crossing pick schemes (hell you even saw Denver tear up the Packers last night with this) and it's just out of control. Yet, the Hawks are loathe to consistently do anything like that.

You just named two teams with HOF QB's and fantastic O-lines. Two QB's btw that have forgotten more about reading defenses than Russell knows in year #4.

Complicated offensive schemes, formations, routes, etc require mastery at every position in that offensive unit. Our O-line right now can barely pass protect for simple quick slants, bubble screens and seam routes, what makes you think they can handle complicated schemes like the Broncos and Patriots run?

It's not inherently complicated though. It's not. I believe simple and complicated is a false dichotomy here. There's nothing complicated in slants and crossing routes or routes up the seam and yet the attempts on those routes are limited.

Both the Pats and Broncos get far more out of the scheme because of talent than the Hawks would but the Hawks are barely even trying to replicate - a 3rd and 6 with a slant to Graham with Lockett taking the close cover man out of the play with his body is as close as you'll ever come to seeing something Patsish on our offense.

The Patriots passing scheme is incredibly complicated. What you see on TV is a simple slant or crossing route.

What the offense does, and runs is entirely different. That Patriots run a lot of option routes. This requires that the WR line up, and reads the defense. Based upon formations, adjustments and rolled coverages, zone/man etc. then he decides what route to run. He can go in, out, slant, etc. Then the QB reads the defense, and also reads the same thing. Guys like Brady will read the coverage, know where the WR is going to go, and throw the football before the WR even makes his break.

This is almost impossible to defend, as the defender doesn't even know where the WR is going to break. It's also not formation dependent, meaning the defense can't study film and know exactly what the WRs are going to do. As soon as a guy breaks, the ball is on him. If the defender guesses wrong (Hi, Therold Simon !) the WR has some room to run and YAC to gain.

Add to that, the QB can also read defensive formations, call audibles, change the offensive formations and change the route trees/options at the line of scrimmage. It's a thing of beauty when it works, and can mask shortcomings in the OL. When it doesn't work, you'll see a ton of wasted passes. Remember at the beginning of last year, when Brady was working with a ton of new WR ? A lot of balls were getting thrown to open spaces and hitting the ground, with no WR anywhere near them.

We honestly don't have the personnel to run these schemes. Just to say "well gee, they run a lot of quick outs and slants" is a gross over simplification.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The Patriots passing scheme is incredibly complicated. What you see on TV is a simple slant or crossing route.

What the offense does, and runs is entirely different. That Patriots run a lot of option routes. This requires that the WR line up, and reads the defense. Based upon formations, adjustments and rolled coverages, zone/man etc. then he decides what route to run. He can go in, out, slant, etc. Then the QB reads the defense, and also reads the same thing. Guys like Brady will read the coverage, know where the WR is going to go, and throw the football before the WR even makes his break.

This is almost impossible to defend, as the defender doesn't even know where the WR is going to break. It's also not formation dependent, meaning the defense can't study film and know exactly what the WRs are going to do. As soon as a guy breaks, the ball is on him. If the defender guesses wrong (Hi, Therold Simon !) the WR has some room to run and YAC to gain.

Add to that, the QB can also read defensive formations, call audibles, change the offensive formations and change the route trees/options at the line of scrimmage. It's a thing of beauty when it works, and can mask shortcomings in the OL. When it doesn't work, you'll see a ton of wasted passes. Remember at the beginning of last year, when Brady was working with a ton of new WR ? A lot of balls were getting thrown to open spaces and hitting the ground, with no WR anywhere near them.

We honestly don't have the personnel to run these schemes. Just to say "well gee, they run a lot of quick outs and slants" is a gross over simplification.

Yeah but we hate Bevell.

 

[purpleneer]

Why do we always run on 2nd and long? Our offense sputters on 3rd and 6 or longer, yet we continuously put ourselves in those situations because bevell want to run draw plays out of the shotgun on 2nd and 10, every fricken time , every fricken game. Baffles me to no end....

I'm ok with running on 2nd and long, cause the D is playing pass so we can usually get 7-8 yards back to make a 3rd and short.
This is where attitudes are too slow to adapt sometimes. That run for 7-8 to set up 3rd-and-short is much rarer than you seem to think. This isn't like it used to be: if you really watch what goes on these days, defenses stuff 2nd-and-long runs at a pretty high rate, especially against teams that want to run more, and it is way easier to pick up that partial chunk on a short pass.

What's driving me crazy is seeing Russell throwing low percentage long sideline routes on 3rd and manageble for incompletions.
YES! YES! YES! Pete loves big plays so much, he's too eager to go for them and those failures prevent having more opportunities and chances to pick better spots for them.

Offense is still overall hard to watch, not dynamic and productive enough for me to completely get back on board with another playoff run. Still too many 3 and outs, 3rd down conversions need to be more, red zone still stinks.

Good game plan though by Bevell, Pete and Russell to move the pocket around so Russell wasn't getting sacked and hit.