Not acquiring Mayfield proves Hawk mgmt wants to tank...

[Lagartixa]

Denver is in finish 4th in their own conference mode. Not win now.

Huh?

What @SoulfishHawk said
(is exactly what I thought too)

 

[JayhawkMike]

You either want the team to win or you don’t.

Baker will win us more games than Geno or Lock so I want Baker.

If I thought QB X would win us more games than Baker and was available at a reasonable cost I would want QB X.

some of the complaints has been:
1. he will only win us 2-3 more games. And unless you want to tank that’s a GOOD thing.
2. he’s a 1 year rental. He doesn’t have to be if he would fit in here. “But we want the rookie QB route to winning”. Fine just admit you want to lose this year.
3. he’s too expensive. bull. A conditional 4th round and then only having to pay $5 million of his salary. GENO SMITH is making $3.5 million this year and can earn up to $7 million total with incentives. Ridiculous
4. he sucked last year. So did Eskridge. But they were both injured but only one gets a pass here.
5. he only succeeded with 10 hall of farmers around him. Yeah, I’ve been told that Lockett, Penny, Metcalf, Dissly and the new TE are all HoFs by the same people. So we are good there right?

we are purposely tanking by not signing, drafting or trading for a competent player at the most important position. Though some would suggest we have 2 numbers 1 QBs. PC should be fired by that stupidity alone.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

You either want the team to win or you don’t.

Baker will win us more games than Geno or Lock so I want Baker.

If I thought QB X would win us more games than Baker and was available at a reasonable cost I would want QB X.

some of the complaints has been:
1. he will only win us 2-3 more games. And unless you want to tank that’s a GOOD thing.
2. he’s a 1 year rental. He doesn’t have to be if he would fit in here. “But we want the rookie QB route to winning”. Fine just admit you want to lose this year.
3. he’s too expensive. bull. A conditional 4th round and then only having to pay $5 million of his salary. GENO SMITH is making $3.5 million this year and can earn up to $7 million total with incentives. Ridiculous
4. he sucked last year. So did Eskridge. But they were both injured but only one gets a pass here.
5. he only succeeded with 10 hall of farmers around him. Yeah, I’ve been told that Lockett, Penny, Metcalf, Dissly and the new TE are all HoFs by the same people. So we are good there right?

we are purposely tanking by not signing, drafting or trading for a competent player at the most important position. Though some would suggest we have 2 numbers 1 QBs. PC should be fired by that stupidity alone.

So let's do a best case scenario with Baker.

Instead of what, 4-5 wins (which is the Vegas over/under on the Hawks), we win 6? 7? 8? with Baker?

So then you're handing him an extension next year? Nope, he's gone and we're back to square one with no playoffs and a worse draft pick.

Yes, he'd be a one year band aid on a team that's in year one of a complete rebuild. In no scenario are you making the playoffs with him, he barely did that on a STACKED Browns team. Sure as hell isn't happening on a bottom 10 team.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Winning more is what matters. We would have with him imo.

 

[seabowl]

So let's do a best case scenario with Baker.

Instead of what, 4-5 wins (which is the Vegas over/under on the Hawks), we win 6? 7? 8? with Baker?

So then you're handing him an extension next year? Nope, he's gone and we're back to square one with no playoffs and a worse draft pick.

Yes, he'd be a one year band aid on a team that's in year one of a complete rebuild. In no scenario are you making the playoffs with him, he barely did that on a STACKED Browns team. Sure as hell isn't happening on a bottom 10 team.

I agree 4-5 with Geno. I do not think it’s a forgone conclusion that Baker would only get us to 7-8. If he’s healthy with this O he could get much more. Plus you don’t have to guess about your future qb because if he plays well enough he’s already on your roster and you can resign him. If he plays poorly he’s gone and then you draft a top qb. I’d rather have two swings at bat instead of just one.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Did you guys hear what he said when asked about the upcoming game against the Browns?

"I'm gonna' f*&^ them up!"
Just makes me like the guy more. And I hope he does. Nothing but the worst for Cleveland.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Winning more is what matters. We would have with him imo.

If a front office bases every single decision on the team's immediate win now needs, that team would be run into the ground quickly. At a certain point every team, even a contending team, balances winning now with winning in the future. If a team were willing to make an extremely lopsided deal sending out future assets for win-now players other teams would accommodate that trade. It doesn't happen, because every team is balancing winning now with winning in the future.

Trading for Baker is a win-now move. It is a move that robs from the future to win now. It robs from the future by sending out a future asset (traded draft pick) and by potentially downgrading a future asset (Hawks 2023 draft position). It is also a move that brings a possibly abrasive and difficult personality into the locker room at a time when the team is developing the future core.

At a certain point, every team balances the present and future. Even if I thought Baker would improve our outlook for 2022 (I do not), I am pleased that the front-office passed on the at best minimal improvement of Baker in favor of building a competitive core for the future.

Even if Baker came with no loss or downgrade of future assets, I would still be pleased with the front-office passing. Culture is important to winning. Culture is the only truly sustainable competitive advantage any team or organization holds. Building a competitive, cooperative, winning culture is objective #1 for this team right now.

 

[justafan]

People are arguing over shingles or herpes.If you dont have a top ten QB you are going to struggle. Lock, Geno, Mayfield or Jimmy are all getting you nowhere. I am going to enjoy the purge and look forward to young guys developing.

 

[LickMyNuts]

I'm not so sure about that. Let's see, we have the Hawks, Panthers, Falcons, Commanders, Saints, Texans, Titans, and Colts that all were in the market when it became known that Mayfield was available. That's a full 25% of the league.

I don’t think any of those situations is close to the dumpster fire the Seahawks have at QB.

Colts brought in Matt Ryan
Titans have Tannehill and MW

I'm not so sure about that. Let's see, we have the Hawks, Panthers, Falcons, Commanders, Saints, Texans, Titans, and Colts that all were in the market when it became known that Mayfield was available. That's a full 25% of the league.

A couple of those NFC South teams I’ll give you Colts and Titans were set by the time the Browns came to earth on the asking price.

Most of those franchises aren’t well run like the Seahawks. I don’t put a lot of stock into there decisions.

 

[RiverDog]

So let's do a best case scenario with Baker.

Instead of what, 4-5 wins (which is the Vegas over/under on the Hawks), we win 6? 7? 8? with Baker?

So then you're handing him an extension next year? Nope, he's gone and we're back to square one with no playoffs and a worse draft pick.

Yes, he'd be a one year band aid on a team that's in year one of a complete rebuild. In no scenario are you making the playoffs with him, he barely did that on a STACKED Browns team. Sure as hell isn't happening on a bottom 10 team.

I'm in this camp with regard to Mayfield. First of all, we don't have a strong enough supporting cast for any QB to get us to where we want to go, which is the Super Bowl.

Secondly, Mayfield is not our ticket. The fear would be that he wo

I don’t think any of those situations is close to the dumpster fire the Seahawks have at QB.

Colts brought in Matt Ryan
Titans have Tannehill and MW

A couple of those NFC South teams I’ll give you Colts and Titans were set by the time the Browns came to earth on the asking price.

Most of those franchises aren’t well run like the Seahawks. I don’t put a lot of stock into there decisions.

After their loss to the Bengals in the playoffs when Tannehill threw 3 picks, there was a ton of speculation that they might be looking to upgrade the position, that they might trade up in the draft to get one, and indeed, took Malik Willis in the 3rd round, whom many had projected to go in the first. They were definitely in the market.

The Browns announced that they had signed Watson on March 20th. The Colts traded for Matt Ryan on March 22nd. You can't tell me that there weren't feelers sent out in advance of those dates, which teams might be interested in Mayfield.

Point is that there were multiple teams, in the neighborhood of 8-10 of them, that were in the QB market early in the offseason when the Browns first started toying with the idea of signing Watson, that would have been interested in upgrading if the opportunity presented itself. The Browns overestimated the market for Mayfield just as the Niners overestimated the market for Garoppolo.

 

[LickMyNuts]

I'm in this camp with regard to Mayfield. First of all, we don't have a strong enough supporting cast for any QB to get us to where we want to go, which is the Super Bowl.

Secondly, Mayfield is not our ticket. The fear would be that he wo

After their loss to the Bengals in the playoffs when Tannehill threw 3 picks, there was a ton of speculation that they might be looking to upgrade the position, that they might trade up in the draft to get one, and indeed, took Malik Willis in the 3rd round, whom many had projected to go in the first. They were definitely in the market.

The Browns announced that they had signed Watson on March 20th. The Colts traded for Matt Ryan on March 22nd. You can't tell me that there weren't feelers sent out in advance of those dates, which teams might be interested in Mayfield.

Point is that there were multiple teams, in the neighborhood of 8-10 of them, that were in the QB market early in the offseason when the Browns first started toying with the idea of signing Watson, that would have been interested in upgrading if the opportunity presented itself. The Browns overestimated the market for Mayfield just as the Niners overestimated the market for Garoppolo.

Agreed, I’m talking about after the Browns came down to earth on the asking price and his contract. Some of those teams had settled at the position.

I think he would have been a clear upgrade for hawks both in leadership and skill at a modest cost for one year.

 

[RiverDog]

Agreed, I’m talking about after the Browns came down to earth on the asking price and his contract. Some of those teams had settled at the position.

I think he would have been a clear upgrade for hawks both in leadership and skill at a modest cost for one year.

Fair enough.

My point was that both the Browns and the Niners overestimated the market for their starting QB's.

 

[Hockey Guy]

This was an interesting read.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, I kind of wanted them to go get baker, but wasn't gung ho. Glad they didn't. Being wrong is a good thing when you end up with a surprisingly good Geno.
That's why I'm a fan, and Pete and John actually know their sh**

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And now........he's a Ram

 

[Chukarhawk]

this aged well

 

[sc85sis]

The idea that Pete Carroll would ever deliberately tank still makes me shake my head. How in the world can ANYONE come to that conclusion?

 

[nanomoz]

This thread title hasn't aged well.

 

[Hawk4life]

Too many people on this site seem to be way too worried about the future, let's enjoy the now. We should be hoping for the playoffs because the other option is no football, and screw that.

 

[seabowl]

The idea that Pete Carroll would ever deliberately tank still makes me shake my head. How in the world can ANYONE come to that conclusion?

I was the OP and obviously was wayyyy off on Baker but NOBODY outside of a few people thought Geno would play anywhere near what he has shown this year. I have to believe that even Pete and the rest of management are surprised on how well he’s done. Frankly, I can’t think of anyone else in any sport that I have watched that has gone from literally being a bad player to being this good. Kurt Warner comes to mind, however he, in my opinion was never even given the opportunity to be bad as he did not get a shot before going to the Rams.