Not picking up Irvin's 5th year option???

[HawkFan72]

Can someone explain to me why teams have to decide on the 5th year before a guy has even played his 4th season?

I have never understood that either. Teams should have to decide on the option around the time of the franchise tag/RFA tender windows before the 5th season.

 

[DavidSeven]

BTW, Danny O'Neil is basically saying a trade to ATL isn't happening. He is close with Irvin and the team. Probably the best journalistic source on this.

 

[Popeyejones]

Can someone explain to me why teams have to decide on the 5th year before a guy has even played his 4th season?

I have never understood that either. Teams should have to decide on the option around the time of the franchise tag/RFA tender windows before the 5th season.

I alluded to this above, but it's because of the injury clause. If they could use it like a franchise tag players would not be protected from getting injured during their fourth year. Teams would get the option with zero strings at all.

For the NFLPA the timing of the option was a very important component of the bargaining over it.

 

[2_0_6]

BTW, Danny O'Neil is basically saying a trade to ATL isn't happening. He is close with Irvin and the team. Probably the best journalistic source on this.

I hope this is true. Irvin could play a huge role this season for us.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

BTW, Danny O'Neil is basically saying a trade to ATL isn't happening. He is close with Irvin and the team. Probably the best journalistic source on this.

I'm sure Atlanta is where Irvin and his agent would love for their client to go, but it really doesn't make sense for Atlanta.

The Falcons are rebuilding, why would they trade valuable picks for a guy in the last year of his deal who isn't even a front line pass rusher....................which they desperately need?

IMO this is all agent fueled BS. Just like with Bennett's "rumored" request for a trade, it's all about Quinn making this all seem plausible in the press.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

BTW, Danny O'Neil is basically saying a trade to ATL isn't happening. He is close with Irvin and the team. Probably the best journalistic source on this.

I'm sure Atlanta is where Irvin and his agent would love for their client to go, but it really doesn't make sense for Atlanta.

The Falcons are rebuilding, why would they trade valuable picks for a guy in the last year of his deal who isn't even a front line pass rusher....................which they desperately need?

IMO this is all agent fueled BS. Just like with Bennett's "rumored" request for a trade, it's all about Quinn making this all seem plausible in the press.

They aren't rebuilding across the board. They need massive defensive help, but they have a good amount of talent on offense. They are poised to win now with an upgraded defense, and having someone like Irvin who already knows the defend would be a boon.

If you could sign him to an extension yeah, but that's a big if. Again, trading pick(s) for a one year guy who's going to be a UFA next year makes zero sense.

Even from the Hawks side, unless we could get a #1 or maybe #2, it makes no sense. We already get a #4 compensatory for Irvin if he leaves next year. Why trade away valuable depth for a position we already need help in for THIS year?

Again, I'd be shocked if this happens, as I can't see it making sense for either side. This is just Irvin being butthurt.

 

[A-Dog]

This is thing thing that is missing here:

WHAT ABOUT OUR PASS RUSH?

We were already razor-thin last year, and we lost O'Brien Schofield to free agency. Avril and Bennett played a lot of downs last year and we all saw what happened to our pass rush after Avril went down in the Superbowl. The Seahawks have brought in a lot of potential edge rushers in free agency, even kicking the tires on Greg Hardy, but so far nobody has been brought in.

So right now Irvin is our #2 edge rusher behind Avril, with no experienced depth behind him.

Sure, if he left we can move K.J. Wright back to the SAM linebacker spot, which probably suits him better then WILL, and hope that Kevin Pierre-Louis can stay healthy and continue to progress at WILL. But we also lost Malcolm Smith, so we have very little depth should KPL not pan out or KJ or BW get injured.

At any rate, another edge rusher was already a priority... if we trade Irvin it becomes a huge need. And as some have said, why trade him for a 3rd round pick and lose him for this year if we could get one more cheap year from him and then get a comparable comp pick when he signs elsewhere in free agency?

There's only one reason I can think of for why we might make this trade: We are going to sign Justin Houston to an offer sheet. It's been speculated that if any team was going to do that it would be a winning team picking low, and that it would happen after the draft so that the picks would be future picks with lower present value. Well, that time is upon us. If we signed Houston we certainly wouldn't have room to re-up Irvin. At the same time, in terms of edge rushers, we wouldn't have nearly as much need for Irvin - his value to us would be greatly decreased.

So there you have it: We're getting Justin Houston

I'd love that, but how feasible is it? Or are you yanking our chains?

Wilson, Wagner, Graham, and Houston in one offseason? I don't know if a cap magician exists that could make that a reality.

It would be a very bold move, but yes I think it is feasible, and the Seahawks are in a Superbowl window which could slam shut at any time... if you are going to sacrifice a bit of your future this is exactly the time you want to do it.

We have something like $11M available under the cap now. Aside from cutting Irvin loose, we'd probably have to cut McDaniel, either cut or re-structure Mebane, and maybe sign Okung to an extension with a lower 2015 cap number, but we could certainly free up enough space sign Houston to an offer sheet with a first-year cap hit that would be prohibitively expensive to the Chiefs, who are up against the cap and are not known to be big spenders. I don't think signing Houston would prevent us from signing RW and and BW long term, although we might have some tough decisions to make in a year or two (Marshawn, KJ, etc.).

But Houston is the premier edge rusher in the league and is just entering his prime. He is exactly what our defense is missing and would probably make the Hawks the best defense in league history, assuming everyone stays healthy. I personally would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[dopeboy206]

I think you guys are really over estimating the value that Irvin has. He's our guy. I get it. But he's an average OLB, he's an undersized one trick pony DE.

All this KJ hate is really baffling.....

What did KJ do that was so spectacular last season? Did u see how badly he got burned by Gronk in the SB? KJ is one of our slowest defenders who is overrated by 12s. He is not as good in coverage as many believes. He can't get to the QB as well as Irvin but one thing he can do better than Bruce is tackle. He isn't a playmaker but I guess u can say he is a good leader.

You're judging KJ by Gronkowski? Really? The best TE in the league will do that to anyone...

Idc if he is the best TE or not he runs a 4.7 and KJ made him look like he runs a 4.3. There is no excuse to getting burned that badly.

 

[onanygivensunday]

I believe that ATL (or any other team for that matter) is looking at the 2015 draft prospects at pass rush DE/OLB and trying to figure out what Irvin's value is.

This draft is not that strong in that area... especially with all the off-the-field problems several of the candidates have.

I believe that Irvin's current value is in the 3rd round.

 

[Popeyejones]

BTW, Danny O'Neil is basically saying a trade to ATL isn't happening. He is close with Irvin and the team. Probably the best journalistic source on this.

I'm sure Atlanta is where Irvin and his agent would love for their client to go, but it really doesn't make sense for Atlanta.

The Falcons are rebuilding, why would they trade valuable picks for a guy in the last year of his deal who isn't even a front line pass rusher....................which they desperately need?

IMO this is all agent fueled BS. Just like with Bennett's "rumored" request for a trade, it's all about Quinn making this all seem plausible in the press.

Agreed with all of this, except I don't thin for a second that this is Quinn.

Think about the timing of it and the answer to who started this starts to expose itself:

The morning of the draft it's "leaked" that the Seahawks aren't going to pick up Irvin's 5th year option, signaling that he's available for trade.

There's no reason in the world for the Seahawks to do this, because if they wanted to move Irvin they could just contact teams directly rather than using the media as a carrier pigeon.

There's no reason in the world for Quinn to do this because if he wanted Irvin he could just contact the Hawks directly, and using the media to signal Irvin's ability would only cause the possibility of another team getting involved and upping the asking price.

We're only left wiith one possible person involved, and it's someone who HAS to use the media becaus of NFL rules: Bruce Irvin's agent.

If Bruce's and his agent want to move and secure him more money in a sign and trade (they've spent all offseason getting ignored by the Hawks while the team focuses on Wilson and Wagner; the writing for Irvin in a Hawks uniform is on the wall), the morning of the draft they leak that the Hawks aren't going to take the 5th year option on Irvin (i.e. he's available!).

They HAVE to do this through the media to try to drum up interest in a trade because it would be tampering if teams talked directly to Irvin's agent about him and trading with the Hawks for him.

Long story short, this ENTIRE thing is Irvin's agent trying to get teams to contact the Hawks today about how much it would cost to trade Irvin. Unlike everyone else, because of tampering rules the media is actually the shortest route from Irvin's agent to other teams.

That's our answer.

(the Falcons thing is either just some enterprising reporter connecting the dots, or Bruce's agent also trying to get other teams to up the ante by making them think more teams are bidding; the old "five teams which I will not name are all competing for my client's services" schtick).

 

[dopeboy206]

I think you guys are really over estimating the value that Irvin has. He's our guy. I get it. But he's an average OLB, he's an undersized one trick pony DE.

All this KJ hate is really baffling.....

What did KJ do that was so spectacular last season? Did u see how badly he got burned by Gronk in the SB? KJ is one of our slowest defenders who is overrated by 12s. He is not as good in coverage as many believes. He can't get to the QB as well as Irvin but one thing he can do better than Bruce is tackle. He isn't a playmaker but I guess u can say he is a good leader.

Judging him by one game vs the best TE in the game....best we've seen in a while.... He does his job very well. He's not asked to be flashy, he's asked to do his job make his tackles, and then when bobby is hurt step up into the middle and get by. He's also versatile enough that he can potentially guard big time TE's. Will he win every single matchup every game vs a big time TE???? No but there is no human out there that does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDpnx6Vc0hw
Watch 00:22 in this video. Look how slow KJ looked against Gronk. What is worse is Gronk didn't even touched him. Idc if he is the best TE or not Gronk doesn't have elite speed but KJ made him look like Usain Bolt on that play.

I sound like a KJ hater but the point I am trying to make is Bruce Irvin is a better player and I would rather keep him over KJ Wright. I am still pissed off we made him the 2nd highest paid OLB when we could of saved that money on Irvin.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Also, not sure how this is Irvin being butthurt? You seem to take a lot pessimistic views on players.

So you don't think it's a coincidence that this rumor started yesterday after we didn't pick up his option? Why all of a sudden does he want to be traded?

Of course it's butthurt, dissatisfaction, unhappiness, anger............use any word you want but we're talking about this now because Irvin and his agent aren't happy that the Hawks didn't pick up his option year.

Quinn knows Irvin better than anyone, so for the 3rd time why would he give up valuable picks for a player that's not worth 8M a year?...........and if he and Dimitroff give Irvin an extension offer for lower than this, why would Irvin take it when he can try and have a great year and get more in FA?..............and more importantly why would Pete and John trade Irvin for an unknown draft pick that may or may not help this year when we're in our window of trying to win SB's?

 

[gowazzu02]

I think you guys are really over estimating the value that Irvin has. He's our guy. I get it. But he's an average OLB, he's an undersized one trick pony DE.

All this KJ hate is really baffling.....

What did KJ do that was so spectacular last season? Did u see how badly he got burned by Gronk in the SB? KJ is one of our slowest defenders who is overrated by 12s. He is not as good in coverage as many believes. He can't get to the QB as well as Irvin but one thing he can do better than Bruce is tackle. He isn't a playmaker but I guess u can say he is a good leader.

Judging him by one game vs the best TE in the game....best we've seen in a while.... He does his job very well. He's not asked to be flashy, he's asked to do his job make his tackles, and then when bobby is hurt step up into the middle and get by. He's also versatile enough that he can potentially guard big time TE's. Will he win every single matchup every game vs a big time TE???? No but there is no human out there that does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDpnx6Vc0hw
Watch 00:22 in this video. Look how slow KJ looked against Gronk. What is worse is Gronk didn't even touched him. Idc if he is the best TE or not Gronk doesn't have elite speed but KJ made him look like Usain Bolt on that play.

Gronk is by far and away the best tight end in the league. I refuse to watch anything from that superbowl but from the looks of it its a 22 second clip. Soooo One play?

Maybe focus on the fact that JS/PC chose to extend KJ and they are potentially shopping Irvin......I trust them more then you. no disrespect.

 

[Popeyejones]

It has already been shown that ATL could exercise the 5th year option

I know there was a conflicting article from today, but upthread I posted two articles from two separate sources saying that the fifth year option is reserved for the drafting team and is cancelled if the player is cut or traded (which, I mean, c'mon, also makes sense).

On top of multiple reporters saying it's not allowed, I think we can also add on that if it was allowed we'd have seen someone do it before (more likely is that those sources are right and nobody has done it before because you're not allowed to do it).

I'll happily apologize if proven wrong about this, but save for a single reporter today everything else points in the opposite direction for this.

 

[dopeboy206]

GoWazzu02,

He was getting burned a lot last season I was just using the SB as an example. U forget Antonio Gates abused him too?

 

[gowazzu02]

GoWazzu02,

He was getting burned a lot last season I was just using the SB as an example. U forget Antonio Gates abused him too?

I seem to remember Kam being the one getting torched by Gates. But you maybe right, I dont care enough to go do the research.

Ill just leave it at this. We already know where KJ stands with this team. PC/JS already paid him.

Irvin was drafted as a DE, moved to OLB, and while has flashed, also hasn't been consistant.

I have blind faith behind js/pc, they have built the team that has gotten this franchise to heights never before reached. And for goodness sake this is a defensive personel call. I get being questioning on WR or OL moves but defense? defense that has been historically great.....

 

[v1rotv2]

I think there are a handful of scenarios where not opting on Bruce makes sense.

1. Trade for draft position
2. Flat out trade for another player
3. Making this year a contract year to see if he gets motivated and ups his game
4. John and Pete may see a player in the draft that makes Bruce less of a priority
5. They could be working on a long term deal that would minimize his cost for the next 2 years

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

Trade Irvin?
I'd take the following in a hot minute, mostly because I think Irvin is replaceable and not worth the big $ that he is to receive next year. I've never been very high on him anyway.
Seahawks get: #42 & #73 - Lots of possibilities with these picks, including DGB?
Atlanta gets: #63 & LB-Bruce Irvin, toss Atlanta an additional 6-th rounder if needed to make the deal.
GO FOR IT.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7153367808/hF201CB7C

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I hate this. It's quite obvious the trade for Irvin was initiated by the Falcons.

So, Seahawks have leverage in the situation on the asking price.

If Irvin isn't in the future plans, I think that #42 isn't out of question.

On worst defenses, Irvin can be an impact player and I think he's ready to take on that LEO role better than his first year.

If for instance the Falcons wanted to take Danny Shelton and pass over the elite pass rushers that now have question marks. Irvin would be a better LEO/LB and more so ready now than any of the prospects they could get at #42.

Could the Seahawks get that #8 pick?

I think it's possible but would be extremely difficult.

I think a nice package of players and some picks.

SEA gets #8 + CB Robert Alford. ATL gets Irvin, Mebane, Michael, and Burley + swapping Sea 2nd and 3rd for ATLs 3rd and 4th, 2015 4th round pick plus a 2016 3rd and 5th round picks which would replenish with next year comps for Maxwell and Carp.

ATL could sign Irvin and Mebane to long term deals and they would be key veteran additions to help Quinn transition to his Defense. Michael has potential to be a stud RB, let him compete with a greater opportunity to get snaps and it could be a jump-start for him. Mebane is already an elite DT, Irvin is a quality starter with potential to be elite, and Michael has elite athleticism and the potential to be a quality starter if not an elite change of pace back.

Alford is small 5'10 weighing in between 185-195. But he has great athleticism, speed (4.38 FYD), hops (40in Vert), and most importantly possesses the necessary wingspan Carroll covets (32 in arm length + 9.5 in hands). I think he could be a Walter Thurmond mold CB. A potentially elite slot corner who has the experience of playing outside if needed.

With the trade Seahawks save about 7.5m this year.

With the #8 pick, you can do some things. Maybe you trade for the Vikings #11 and Cordelle Patterson, If they covet one of the top WRs.

Seahawks could trade down again with the Chiefs #18, if they also covet one of the top WRs for 2015 and 2016 3rd Rounders.

At #18 maybe you can coax a Dallas at #27 team to give up a 2016 2nd-3rd round pick and 2015 3rd round pick.

Seahawks can trade down again from #27 If they don't like the board to 40-50 range grab another pick.

I don't know but it could work out.