Offense is killing the Defense

[cymatica]

Half the drives were three and out, still dialing up many deep routes while defenses continue to defend deep, saved by Russell Wilson being a magician. It isn't a sustainable formula. I KNEW people would defend the score even though up until the ridiculous play by Russ and DB, the offense was doing nothing. The play call was DOA and through Russ's magic they got an enormous gain. Defense got them great field position almost all night which once again led to nothing.

Also, nomination for dumbest play call of the season goes to Bevell with his slow developing reverse play action call right after the safety against a blitz happy defense.

This 100%. That reverse was something special and right there showed Bevell's situational awareness.

 

[ducks41468]

The offense did nothing pretty much all game. They had one sustained drive that led to the first TD and two 50-50 long passes that led to another 10 points, and that was about it.

Right now the entire offense is broken. The line can't open holes for the RB's or create time for Wilson, the RB's don't have the vision (Rawls) or speed (Lacy) to hit the few holes that are there, Wilson needs at least half the game to get into a rhythm, and the OC calls plays seemingly at random and has trouble adjusting for our weaknesses.

 

[Exittium]

It’s like Pete’s last year at USC.. ala History Repeating itself

 

[seahawkfreak]

The offense did nothing pretty much all game. They had one sustained drive that led to the first TD and two 50-50 long passes that led to another 10 points, and that was about it.

Right now the entire offense is broken. The line can't open holes for the RB's or create time for Wilson, the RB's don't have the vision (Rawls) or speed (Lacy) to hit the few holes that are there, Wilson needs at least half the game to get into a rhythm, and the OC calls plays seemingly at random and has trouble adjusting for our weaknesses.

I agree with this for the most part and I'm sure people are tired of me writing this but it is telling. There was many times last night were RW had 4+ seconds in the pocket and nothing came of it (not necessarily saying Wilson is at fault, could be but don't know for sure). Even 3 seconds should be enough time to get the ball off.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Offense put up 20 points on the road, I'm plenty happy that that. (2 points more on the safety)

 

[chris98251]

Defense safety 2 points

Walsh 2 field goals 6 points

Walsh 2 extra points 2 points

Offense 2 Touchdowns 12 points

Lets not sugar coat it.

 

[Seymour]

Defense safety 2 points

Walsh 2 field goals 6 points

Walsh 2 extra points 2 points

Offense 2 Touchdowns 12 points

Lets not sugar coat it.

LOL, you are not serious are you?

That all = 2 points defense 20 points offense in every record book that exists.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

My god, can you be a little more dramatic? Kicking is part of the offense no? THEY SCORED 20 POINTS ON OFFENSE. Geezus

 

[chris98251]

My god, can you be a little more dramatic? Kicking is part of the offense no? THEY SCORED 20 POINTS ON OFFENSE. Geezus

They should have had at least three touchdown's is really the point.

What about the previous weeks, redzone inefficiency, we were like 23 percent on third down last night as well. You guys can butter up things but as a offense were a disaster, miracle plays count as yards also and pad stats, the eye says were in trouble.

 

[Anthony!]

The offense did nothing pretty much all game. They had one sustained drive that led to the first TD and two 50-50 long passes that led to another 10 points, and that was about it.

Right now the entire offense is broken. The line can't open holes for the RB's or create time for Wilson, the RB's don't have the vision (Rawls) or speed (Lacy) to hit the few holes that are there, Wilson needs at least half the game to get into a rhythm, and the OC calls plays seemingly at random and has trouble adjusting for our weaknesses.

I agree with much, but Rw does not need half the game to get into rhythm, he needs to stop using the stupid 15 scripted plays which usually take up half the game. He needs to be able to play the uptempo, west coast boom offense that worked in 2nd half of 2015 and when we used it this year. It is simple whenever we move the ball easily we are using this offense. It helps the oline for blocking, helps the run game, and most importantly allows Rwe to make more choices rather than being stuck with what Bevel Calls

 

[Anthony!]

The offense did nothing pretty much all game. They had one sustained drive that led to the first TD and two 50-50 long passes that led to another 10 points, and that was about it.

Right now the entire offense is broken. The line can't open holes for the RB's or create time for Wilson, the RB's don't have the vision (Rawls) or speed (Lacy) to hit the few holes that are there, Wilson needs at least half the game to get into a rhythm, and the OC calls plays seemingly at random and has trouble adjusting for our weaknesses.

I agree with this for the most part and I'm sure people are tired of me writing this but it is telling. There was many times last night were RW had 4+ seconds in the pocket and nothing came of it (not necessarily saying Wilson is at fault, could be but don't know for sure). Even 3 seconds should be enough time to get the ball off.

Agreed a lot of that is the route designs, they are simple and easy to defend

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Score 20 points on offense, won the game. Doesn't mean crap what it looks like.

 

[chris98251]

Score 20 points on offense, won the game. Doesn't mean crap what it looks like.

Betting 20 points isn't enough the rest of the season, but go ahead drink Bevells and Pete's Kool aide. Siouxhawk will be your Server this evening.

 

[adeltaY]

Score 20 points on offense, won the game. Doesn't mean crap what it looks like.

Betting 20 points isn't enough the rest of the season, but go ahead drink Bevells and Pete's Kool aide. Siouxhawk will be your Server this evening.

LOL. Seriously, I laughed out loud, thanks Chris. :mrgreen:

I agree that the offense was a disaster yesterday. The scramble play was awesome, but no one in their right mind is claiming that as a win for offensive gameplanning. There was a great deep shot to Richardson and the two Jimmy Graham TDs. What other good plays were there? McKissic finally had a cool misdirection run and Rawls ran through a gaping hole. Run game was blanked otherwise.

Sure, Russ had time on some plays, but I don't think anyone was getting open or he's being gun shy. He had Lockett open in the endzone but underthrew him. I can live with that, but I know Wilson can hit that throw. Unfortunately, the RB was wide open for a first down on that play too, but again it wasn't a bad read.

I get that we just needed the win, but do we seriously have confidence that this offense can compensate for a defense that just took a major hit in losing Sherman and has many other banged up players? I don't.

 

[JoeBart324]

Thought I would chime in on this thread, only because the parallels I see are rather uncanny. Perhaps not quite to the same degree, but similar nonetheless. Full disclosure, Niners fan here but I sincerely try to be as impartial as I can be.

It feels like the Seahawks are following a similar, though less pronounced, route the Niners went with Harbaugh. Dominating defense with an offense that showed sparks of greatness. However, as the team began to age, and never really addressed the underlying offensive problems, cracks began to show and the team fell apart. The defense faltered (though to be fair the Niners went through an incredible amount of turmoil in the latter Harbaugh years) and a promising offense never quite came to fruition to carry a declining defense.

From what I have watched of the Seahawks, it feels like Wilson has not quite re-established himself as the truly elite QB he was made to be. He does amazing things, but working within the offense as designed is not something he excels at. Bevell certainly should shoulder some of the blame, but a basic offense was something Niners fans criticized Harbaugh of. The real problem was an underlying lack of talent despite what the coaches and fans believed. It is entirely possible Wilson seems to struggle when playing within the framework of the offense because receivers are simply not getting open. If the throw is not there, it probably shouldn't be made. That would not be a knock on Wilson, but on the receivers.

In addition, the defense while still playing at a high level, has begun to show signs that it is not the incredible force it used to be. This is putting additional pressure on an offense that was never designed to win shootouts. Similar to the Niners under Harbaugh, the offense is designed to merely conservatively control the game and let the defense be the focal point of the team. This is not necessarily a bad strategy, but when the offense struggles due to a talent gap, the defense needs to play at an elite level for an extended period of time. That is no easy task for any NFL team.

I truly think the Seahawks still have an extremely talented team. But the holes on the team are beginning to show in a manner similar to what the Niners experienced under Harbaugh. I absolutely do not think their fall will be as dramatic, quick or as pronounced as the Niners, but it is something concerning to think about. A coach who seems overly committed to an OC that is not getting results, an offense that appears to be declining rather than improving, a defense that is quietly slipping were all things the Niners experienced under Harbaugh and ultimately led to the mess we see now. Seattle has some similar parallels.

I trust the Seahawks have better management than the Niners and I think they are poised to address these issues from a talent standpoint in an effective manner. How it all gels from a coaching standpoint remains to be seen, but I thought I would throw this out there since I find it rather fascinating.

Apologies for the giant wall of text here guys, but I couldn't find a way to make this more concise.

 

[raisethe3]

Score 20 points on offense, won the game. Doesn't mean crap what it looks like.

Betting 20 points isn't enough the rest of the season, but go ahead drink Bevells and Pete's Kool aide. Siouxhawk will be your Server this evening.

I literally laughed out loud.

 

[JimmyG]

Every play that Russell has to make with help from his receivers in a "scramble drill" shows it's not the players that aren't doing their jobs right, it shows the person in charge designing and calling plays, isn't smart enough to use the pieces he has to work with, & is incapeable of accepting responsibility to fix it, since Bevell doesn't think it's his designs that are bad, he won't adjust as much as he needs to.
Next man up is the mantra the team preaches.

This is just completely wrong. This is the lazy "a failed play is the result of a bad call by the OC" nonsense that is trotted out every other post on this board.

Cris Collinsworth specifically mentioned something about this during the broadcast. He said (paraphrasing), "when I like at the tape, I often see Wilson's first and second reads open but he routinely displays a reluctance to throw it. He's almost overly-conservative and safe with the ball. This sometimes leads to him holding on to the ball too long..."

Let's look at a hypothetical example here:

Wilson drops back to pass. His primary read is open, but he hesitates to throw the ball (under the entire PC tenure we've preached ball safety, i.e. win the turnover battle / limit interceptions). After a few seconds, the protection starts to break down (linemen can only block so long). Wilson starts scrambling around, and starts embarrassing pass rushers with his amazing agility. The "scramble drill" that you mentioned kicks in, and he completes a pass to an open receiver.

Here's how you should look at this: the playcall was fine, Wilson's read was open. The pass blocking was fine, they gave him ample time to hit the first/second read. The scramble drill was unnecessary, but it worked out well anyway; Wilson is obviously comfortable with that style of play, so who cares, it worked out.

Here's how 99% of fans would evaluate that play: wow, what a terrible play call, Wilson had no one to throw to (wrong, his first read was open)! Wow, what terrible pass blocking, the line sucks so bad, they gave him no time to throw (wrong, he did get adequate pass blocking, he just held the ball for an unreasonable amount of time)! Wilson had no choice but to run for his life!

Playcalling is only half the battle. Actually executing the play as it was designed is on the players. Not every scramble drill is the result of a poor play call, often it's the result of Wilson being hesitant and resorting to something that he shouldn't have.

Obviously our line sucks, but there are many plays where we actually do provide adequate blocking and Wilson still holds it too long or takes off and runs outside the pocket. Sometimes Wilson shares the blame, it's not always on the OL/OC.

Wilson is very unique because he can turn a broken play into a positive gain -- not many QBs can do that. However, a broken play does not always mean a bad playcall, sometimes he just fails to execute as a conventional QB.

 

[Anthony!]

Every play that Russell has to make with help from his receivers in a "scramble drill" shows it's not the players that aren't doing their jobs right, it shows the person in charge designing and calling plays, isn't smart enough to use the pieces he has to work with, & is incapeable of accepting responsibility to fix it, since Bevell doesn't think it's his designs that are bad, he won't adjust as much as he needs to.
Next man up is the mantra the team preaches.

This is just completely wrong. This is the lazy "a failed play is the result of a bad call by the OC" nonsense that is trotted out every other post on this board.

Cris Collinsworth specifically mentioned something about this during the broadcast. He said (paraphrasing), "when I like at the tape, I often see Wilson's first and second reads open but he routinely displays a reluctance to throw it. He's almost overly-conservative and safe with the ball. This sometimes leads to him holding on to the ball too long..."

Let's look at a hypothetical example here:

Wilson drops back to pass. His primary read is open, but he hesitates to throw the ball (under the entire PC tenure we've preached ball safety, i.e. win the turnover battle / limit interceptions). After a few seconds, the protection starts to break down (linemen can only block so long). Wilson starts scrambling around, and starts embarrassing pass rushers with his amazing agility. The "scramble drill" that you mentioned kicks in, and he completes a pass to an open receiver.

Here's how you should look at this: the playcall was fine, Wilson's read was open. The pass blocking was fine, they gave him ample time to hit the first/second read. The scramble drill was unnecessary, but it worked out well anyway; Wilson is obviously comfortable with that style of play, so who cares, it worked out.

Here's how 99% of fans would evaluate that play: wow, what a terrible play call, Wilson had no one to throw to (wrong, his first read was open)! Wow, what terrible pass blocking, the line sucks so bad, they gave him no time to throw (wrong, he did get adequate pass blocking, he just held the ball for an unreasonable amount of time)! Wilson had no choice but to run for his life!

Playcalling is only half the battle. Actually executing the play as it was designed is on the players. Not every scramble drill is the result of a poor play call, often it's the result of Wilson being hesitant and resorting to something that he shouldn't have.

Obviously our line sucks, but there are many plays where we actually do provide adequate blocking and Wilson still holds it too long or takes off and runs outside the pocket. Sometimes Wilson shares the blame, it's not always on the OL/OC.

Hmm interesting and yet last night the announcers were saying no one was open alot, heck even Collingsworth said numerous times no one was open. I relistened to the game and never heard him say that at all, HMM, What I did hear him say was that, and I am paraphrasing he has watched film and lot of time his 1st and send reads get open but after Wilson has already past them in his progressions. meaning they were not open when it was their turn in the progression.

While I do think alot of the issues is the play design and oline, I am aware there are other issues, but those issues are so far down the list and such a small part they are not worth discussing till you fix the big issues, oline, and play call and design. FYI I have also heard several announcers and experts say the same thing about getting open late.

 

[erik2690]

6 out of 12 possessions went 3 & out.
Really only had 3 sustained drives.
This O has NO identity, direction, rhythm, clue!
Continually putting the D back on the field. It's been going on way too long.
Can't even ice a game with a 1st down or two.
Making every game a nail biter instead of putting teams away. No matter how bad they are.
Please make it stop.

I wouldn't say I disagree per se but we won TOP with no run game and their drives continuously extended by penalty. I just find it hard to see the defense as being "killed" when we win TOP even if they were the better unit. It seems not wrong in totality but a bit hyperbolic. And it hurts to have negative plays (penalties, run stuff, sacks) b/c of the 6 drives you reference 4 were 3rd and 8+, 3 were 10+.

 

[mistaowen]

Every play that Russell has to make with help from his receivers in a "scramble drill" shows it's not the players that aren't doing their jobs right, it shows the person in charge designing and calling plays, isn't smart enough to use the pieces he has to work with, & is incapeable of accepting responsibility to fix it, since Bevell doesn't think it's his designs that are bad, he won't adjust as much as he needs to.
Next man up is the mantra the team preaches.

This is just completely wrong. This is the lazy "a failed play is the result of a bad call by the OC" nonsense that is trotted out every other post on this board.

Cris Collinsworth specifically mentioned something about this during the broadcast. He said (paraphrasing), "when I like at the tape, I often see Wilson's first and second reads open but he routinely displays a reluctance to throw it. He's almost overly-conservative and safe with the ball. This sometimes leads to him holding on to the ball too long..."

Let's look at a hypothetical example here:

Wilson drops back to pass. His primary read is open, but he hesitates to throw the ball (under the entire PC tenure we've preached ball safety, i.e. win the turnover battle / limit interceptions). After a few seconds, the protection starts to break down (linemen can only block so long). Wilson starts scrambling around, and starts embarrassing pass rushers with his amazing agility. The "scramble drill" that you mentioned kicks in, and he completes a pass to an open receiver.

Here's how you should look at this: the playcall was fine, Wilson's read was open. The pass blocking was fine, they gave him ample time to hit the first/second read. The scramble drill was unnecessary, but it worked out well anyway; Wilson is obviously comfortable with that style of play, so who cares, it worked out.

Here's how 99% of fans would evaluate that play: wow, what a terrible play call, Wilson had no one to throw to (wrong, his first read was open)! Wow, what terrible pass blocking, the line sucks so bad, they gave him no time to throw (wrong, he did get adequate pass blocking, he just held the ball for an unreasonable amount of time)! Wilson had no choice but to run for his life!

Playcalling is only half the battle. Actually executing the play as it was designed is on the players. Not every scramble drill is the result of a poor play call, often it's the result of Wilson being hesitant and resorting to something that he shouldn't have.

Obviously our line sucks, but there are many plays where we actually do provide adequate blocking and Wilson still holds it too long or takes off and runs outside the pocket. Sometimes Wilson shares the blame, it's not always on the OL/OC.

Wilson is very unique because he can turn a broken play into a positive gain -- not many QBs can do that. However, a broken play does not always mean a bad playcall, sometimes he just fails to execute as a conventional QB.

So much deflection good lord