Offensive Coordinator replacement for 2016

[Siouxhawk]

Considering we've put the vast majority of Paul Allen's resources into our defense, we should be winning games with a two touchdown lead in the fourth quarter. The offense set us up to best Cincy, and unfortunately we let it get away

Your bias is thick. Earl got an interception to erase a Cincy score, and Bennett and Wagner a scoop and score. At least 10 of those point in that 17 point gap, if not 14, are because of the D.
6 consecutive punts with 40 yards of offense, or thereabouts. you want to blame that on the defense. Anyone who can watch the third down plays and not see that cincy was onto our 3rd down passing tendency is not blind, they are being obtuse.

I'm just stating a fact that only once in 500 games had a team allowed a 17-point fourth quarter lead get away. Whatever woes our offense had, our defense also didn't make the signature play that we are accustomed to when we really need it. Penalties that bailed them out and blown coverage is something pretty foreign to our team. Hopefully we revert back real soon.

 

[Scottemojo]

If not for Lynch's otherworldly ability to break tackles and make people miss, which is gone this year so far, and Wilson's maddening for both Hawk fans and defences ability to extend plays, we would be looking at a historically bad offense. The sad part is that this offense is not less talented than most others. A seeming inability to consistently exploit matchups is killing offensive production.

Watch Bevell's presser this week. I predict that he will call attention to what he liked in his opening statements, try to disarm a couple of criticisms as well, and like usual, lay most of it on execution. I have long thought his pressers reek of condescension, just my opinion. Quinn and Richard don't do that. I am of the opinion that Bevell is pretty sure he is the smartest guy in the room. Which is great if you actually are. But a hell of a handicap if you are not.

Bevell thinks ingenuity is lining Coleman out wide, then motioning him to h-back. Which neither creates or exploits a mismatch. He thinks a flare to Jimmy for 6 yards is getting Jimmy touches, when any slow ass JAG TE can run that play. He thinks a quick screen to a 2 wr stack is a way to get easy yards, and he is right, but when those 2 wrs are Kearse and Baldwin it is unlikely that he actually exploited a matchup problem for the D or created an explosive opportunity. Asking Baldwin to run curls and hooks, when no other route is playing off his, or his is not played off another, has more to do with Baldwin not getting separation than anything else, Baldwin has uber quicks that mostly go to waste in Seattle. So does Lockett. IF Matthews has good hands but can't get separation in one on ones, it is time for a rub or a very elementary combo route to clear a small zone for him first. I watched Roman get slow ass Boldin wide open for years that way.

Bevell is an offensive restriction. He doesn't have to be a terrible OC for that label to be accurate. Pete is also an offensive restriction. One restriction is much easier to remove than the other.

Some counter with 2SBs!
Seattle does not win games when the opponent scores more than 24. Pretty much not ever in the Bevell era. We have no counter to an opposing offense producing even slightly above NFL average. Seattle's defense cannot have an average game, and as we saw Sunday, one bad quarter of defense can sink this team, even after 3 spectacular quarters of defense. The offense can pull the D out of the fire, but only up to 23 points. The end result has been 2 SBs, true, but it is now the 4th year of an offense that cannot save a game unless the D has played very, very well.
I thought that last year keeping Bevell was a mistake because the odds of him becoming a polarizing figure were just too high. Not trying to be prophetic, it just seemed very plain to me. I still think that. I may be wrong, but I think Bevell will be gone after this year, and looking back it will be plain it was a year too late.

 

[dopeboy206]

Gordon Bombay

Emilio Estevez will probably be an upgrade at this point lol

 

[Siouxhawk]

Considering that Russell is on pace for a career year in passing in spite of all the shoddy line play and without Marshawn for the most part, I'd say he's doing quite well in Bevell's system, which is actually Pete's system, by the way.
Our receivers seem to be getting open with regularity when our line can keep the defenders out of Russell's grill. That regressed in the 4th Q and OT on Sunday, but overall, I thought they made positive strides.
The game was set up for the defense to win, but we had lots of uncharacteristic breakdowns in the fourth quarter Sunday and that cost us. I see that more of an anomaly that will be corrected so that we can win the Seahawk way that is the foundation of the team we've come to know the last 3 years.
But all in all, I think Bev has done an admirable job and I'd give him a raise and an extension for the future.

 

[Scottemojo]

Considering that Russell is on pace for a career year in passing in spite of all the shoddy line play and without Marshawn for the most part, I'd say he's doing quite well in Bevell's system, which is actually Pete's system, by the way.
Our receivers seem to be getting open with regularity when our line can keep the defenders out of Russell's grill. That regressed in the 4th Q and OT on Sunday, but overall, I thought they made positive strides.
The game was set up for the defense to win, but we had lots of uncharacteristic breakdowns in the fourth quarter Sunday and that cost us. I see that more of an anomaly that will be corrected so that we can win the Seahawk way that is the foundation of the team we've come to know the last 3 years.
But all in all, I think Bev has done an admirable job and I'd give him a raise and an extension for the future.

In general, our receivers make plays when Russell extends plays. For 3 years, many of our biggest plays passing have been Russell scrambling to run or pass. Sandlot ball.
That you want to blame Pete for conservative nature to exonerate Bevell, then give Bevell credit for sandlot football, is illogical.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Considering that Russell is on pace for a career year in passing in spite of all the shoddy line play and without Marshawn for the most part, I'd say he's doing quite well in Bevell's system, which is actually Pete's system, by the way.
Our receivers seem to be getting open with regularity when our line can keep the defenders out of Russell's grill. That regressed in the 4th Q and OT on Sunday, but overall, I thought they made positive strides.
The game was set up for the defense to win, but we had lots of uncharacteristic breakdowns in the fourth quarter Sunday and that cost us. I see that more of an anomaly that will be corrected so that we can win the Seahawk way that is the foundation of the team we've come to know the last 3 years.
But all in all, I think Bev has done an admirable job and I'd give him a raise and an extension for the future.

In general, our receivers make plays when Russell extends plays. For 3 years, many of our biggest plays passing have been Russell scrambling to run or pass. Sandlot ball.
That you want to blame Pete for conservative nature to exonerate Bevell, then give Bevell credit for sandlot football, is illogical.

It's illogical to assume that those improv skills of Russell are not being incorporated into the gameplan by the OC. If you don't think they aren't accounted for, you are not paying attention.

 

[dopeboy206]

When was the last time an NFL OC got fired in the middle of a season? Just wondering.

 

[mistaowen]

Considering that Russell is on pace for a career year in passing in spite of all the shoddy line play and without Marshawn for the most part, I'd say he's doing quite well in Bevell's system, which is actually Pete's system, by the way.
Our receivers seem to be getting open with regularity when our line can keep the defenders out of Russell's grill. That regressed in the 4th Q and OT on Sunday, but overall, I thought they made positive strides.
The game was set up for the defense to win, but we had lots of uncharacteristic breakdowns in the fourth quarter Sunday and that cost us. I see that more of an anomaly that will be corrected so that we can win the Seahawk way that is the foundation of the team we've come to know the last 3 years.
But all in all, I think Bev has done an admirable job and I'd give him a raise and an extension for the future.

You're trolling at this point. What about the offense this season has looked good? Not getting a first half TD until the Bears game? Dropping 13 on the hapless Lions? Looking mostly lost unless in hurry up situations or the occasional drive? Completely shutting down when we needed just a couple first downs to put the Bengals away? Were you excited when the offense punted six times in the fourth quarter cause that meant the defense got to play more? Bevell doesn't put players in situational advantages. Rolling Graham out at the LOS for a 4 yard gain is a waste of time. Look how Hue Jackson attacked our defense with Tyler Eifert, who is much less talented than Jimmy.

Outside of finally getting the running game going last week, there is no way you can look at what our offense has done this season and think hm, I like what I see. The biggest fear everyone had with Jimmy Graham coming in was Bevell would just try to plug him into an existing awful TE offense and that's exactly what happened. Think back to a majority of the big plays we've had the past few seasons. They (mostly) come from Marshawn breaking ridiculous tackles or Wilson having no options on the play called and it becoming a scramble drill.

You can't expect any defense in the NFL to shoulder the entire team every single week, especially against a terrific offense like the Bengals. Scotte's post above is terrific, read it.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Considering that Russell is on pace for a career year in passing in spite of all the shoddy line play and without Marshawn for the most part, I'd say he's doing quite well in Bevell's system, which is actually Pete's system, by the way.
Our receivers seem to be getting open with regularity when our line can keep the defenders out of Russell's grill. That regressed in the 4th Q and OT on Sunday, but overall, I thought they made positive strides.
The game was set up for the defense to win, but we had lots of uncharacteristic breakdowns in the fourth quarter Sunday and that cost us. I see that more of an anomaly that will be corrected so that we can win the Seahawk way that is the foundation of the team we've come to know the last 3 years.
But all in all, I think Bev has done an admirable job and I'd give him a raise and an extension for the future.

You're trolling at this point. What about the offense this season has looked good? Not getting a first half TD until the Bears game? Dropping 13 on the hapless Lions? Looking mostly lost unless in hurry up situations or the occasional drive? Completely shutting down when we needed just a couple first downs to put the Bengals away? Were you excited when the offense punted six times in the fourth quarter cause that meant the defense got to play more? Bevell doesn't put players in situational advantages. Rolling Graham out at the LOS for a 4 yard gain is a waste of time. Look how Hue Jackson attacked our defense with Tyler Eifert, who is much less talented than Jimmy.

Outside of finally getting the running game going last week, there is no way you can look at what our offense has done this season and think hm, I like what I see. The biggest fear everyone had with Jimmy Graham coming in was Bevell would just try to plug him into an existing awful TE offense and that's exactly what happened. Think back to a majority of the big plays we've had the past few seasons. They (mostly) come from Marshawn breaking ridiculous tackles or Wilson having no options on the play called and it becoming a scramble drill.

You can't expect any defense in the NFL to shoulder the entire team every single week, especially against a terrific offense like the Bengals. Scotte's post above is terrific, read it.

Contrary to your negative attitude, I have observed many positive attributes with our offense, all predicated with improvement by our offensive line. I also think Jimmy is being implemented well into the gameplay and I foresee much more of that going forward. So no trolling as you erred, but just observing a pattern I've seen akin to our last two successful seasons.

 

[ludakrishna]

As much as I dislike cable, I would be okay with him as the OC over Bevhell. His raiders teams were decent when he was the HC. Justin Fargas actually looked like a good RB under him

 

[DavidSeven]

It is a little ridiculous to assume that anyone on this forum can judge the playcalling, even with the All-22. Holmgren and Millen have both said it's impossible to judge playcalling at the professional level, but we apparently have savants and psychics on this forum who can parse out OC error from faulty QB play, bad audibles, bad route running, poor o-line blocking, head coach dictation, etc. Our 3rd down call was "predictable" even though Cincinnati converted a huge 3rd down where every route was diagnosed and covered by our secondary -- the difference: one set of players got it done by making plays, the other didn't.

Ultimately, this is a results based business, which can be unfortunate for OCs who are hamstrung by poor QB play, but that's what it is. Scott Linehan, Todd Haley, and Kyle Shanahan look pretty competent with Tony Romo, Ben Roethlisberger, and Matt Ryan. Not so when their QBs are Brandon Weeden, Mike Vick, and Brian Hoyer. Where does Russ fall in this spectrum? Certainly above the bottom-feeders, but anyone who watched Philip Rivers manage his offense on Monday night and thinks we're getting the same thing from Russell Wilson is being purposely dense.

If the results of this offense ends up being poor for a significant stretch, Bevell will ultimately take the blame for that. That might not be fair if he's getting no resources on his offense and his QB is regressing, but that's the nature of the business. However, we need to stop pretending that anyone here knows what's going on in any specific play call. I have seen so much mis-analysis spread throughout this place as gospel, and we spend so much energy every week on trying to determine the impossible.

 

[Hasselbeck]

As much as I dislike cable, I would be okay with him as the OC over Bevhell. His raiders teams were decent when he was the HC. Justin Fargas actually looked like a good RB under him

I promise you, you would HATE a Cable offense.

Raiders rankings on offense under Cable

2008 - 29th
2009 - 31st
2010 - 6th

Want to know why 2010 was different?

Hue Jackson. The guy leading the Bengals on offense.

 

[Hasselbeck]

When was the last time an NFL OC got fired in the middle of a season? Just wondering.

The Ravens did it and won the Super Bowl that year.

 

[Scottemojo]

It is a little ridiculous to assume that anyone on this forum can judge the playcalling, even with the All-22. Holmgren and Millen have both said it's impossible to judge playcalling at the professional level, but we apparently have savants and psychics on this forum who can parse out OC error from faulty QB play, bad audibles, bad route running, poor o-line blocking, head coach dictation, etc. Our 3rd down call was "predictable" even though Cincinnati converted a huge 3rd down where every route was diagnosed and covered by our secondary -- the difference: one set of players got it done by making plays, the other didn't.

Ultimately, this is a results based business, which can be unfortunate for OCs who are hamstrung by poor QB play, but that's what it is. Scott Linehan, Todd Haley, and Kyle Shanahan look pretty competent with Tony Romo, Ben Roethlisberger, and Matt Ryan. Not so when their QBs are Brandon Weeden, Mike Vick, and Brian Hoyer. Where does Russ fall in this spectrum? Certainly above the bottom-feeders, but anyone who watched Philip Rivers manage his offense on Monday night and thinks we're getting the same thing from Russell Wilson is being purposely dense.

If the results of this offense ends up being poor for a significant stretch, Bevell will ultimately take the blame for that. That might not be fair if he's getting no resources on his offense and his QB is regressing, but that's the nature of the business. However, we need to stop pretending that anyone here knows what's going on in any specific play call. I have seen so much mis-analysis spread throughout this place as gospel, and we spend so much energy every week on trying to determine the impossible.

So you have never watched a game and thought there were bad calls by the OC? Because it is impossible to know? Gregg Knapp was good and just had bad players?

Those questions are hyperbole, I am guessing you have had some OC's you watch and wonder what they were thinking.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Scotte dropping knowledge bombs as per the usual.

 

[DavidSeven]

So you have never watched a game and thought there were bad calls by the OC? Because it is impossible to know? Gregg Knapp was good and just had bad players?

Those questions are hyperbole, I am guessing you have had some OC's you watch and wonder what they were thinking.

I do slip into this mode of thinking on occasion, but 9 times out of 10, I am more likely to wonder why a QB made a bad decision, why an o-lineman keeps losing his matchup, why a receiver can't threaten a defense, etc. I think you can really only judge an OC on the body of work, because no one knows where any specific play call came from, whether it was an audible or came from the head coach or a position coach. Hell, Mike Holmgren said he'd have his position coaches call entire series for him when he wasn't feeling it. Yet we want to pretend that good play calls are the holy grail of effective football.

That said, if the offense is consistently performing poorly and that is proven by the numbers, then ultimately the OC takes the heat for that. Just like a mid-level manager takes the heat for a failing division he oversees. But no one has statistical support for this over Bevell's tenure. It's all "gut feeling" that the offense could do better than the top-10 standing it's consistently found itself in over the last three years, despite having a quarterback who anyone can see is somewhat limited and having almost no resources devoted anywhere on this offense.

 

[kearly]

It is a little ridiculous to assume that anyone on this forum can judge the playcalling, even with the All-22. Holmgren and Millen have both said it's impossible to judge playcalling at the professional level, but we apparently have savants and psychics on this forum who can parse out OC error from faulty QB play, bad audibles, bad route running, poor o-line blocking, head coach dictation, etc. Our 3rd down call was "predictable" even though Cincinnati converted a huge 3rd down where every route was diagnosed and covered by our secondary -- the difference: one set of players got it done by making plays, the other didn't.

Ultimately, this is a results based business, which can be unfortunate for OCs who are hamstrung by poor QB play, but that's what it is. Scott Linehan, Todd Haley, and Kyle Shanahan look pretty competent with Tony Romo, Ben Roethlisberger, and Matt Ryan. Not so when their QBs are Brandon Weeden, Mike Vick, and Brian Hoyer. Where does Russ fall in this spectrum? Certainly above the bottom-feeders, but anyone who watched Philip Rivers manage his offense on Monday night and thinks we're getting the same thing from Russell Wilson is being purposely dense.

If the results of this offense ends up being poor for a significant stretch, Bevell will ultimately take the blame for that. That might not be fair if he's getting no resources on his offense and his QB is regressing, but that's the nature of the business. However, we need to stop pretending that anyone here knows what's going on in any specific play call. I have seen so much mis-analysis spread throughout this place as gospel, and we spend so much energy every week on trying to determine the impossible.

I would agree with Holmgren and Millen that it's never a 100% sure thing when attempting to MMQB a play that didn't work because there is a lot we don't know. However, I don't read Scottemojo's critiques as MMQB'ing only the plays that didn't execute right, but rather a dissection of concepts for which the flaws are readily apparent. Like the example of the Fullback going out to WR then coming back to HB before the snap, which causes zero reaction by the defense (why would it? Who's afraid of a FB at WR?). Or having Jimmy Graham pass blocking on a crucial 3rd and 4 to put the game away? For examples like these, you can't pull the "we don't know everything" line. There is no possible explanation that could make those kinds of decisions optimal.

I think the reason Bevell still has a job here is because Pete is a fundamentals guy, not a details guy. Pete sees beauty in simplicity. Watching many other OCs around the league reminds me every weekend just how much there is to know about football. The league is full of chessmasters, but I've never gotten that chessmaster vibe from Bevell. Really the best thing I can say about him is that he will adopt clever plays from the college game every once in a while, but for all we know that could just be a Pete thing.

 

[DavidSeven]

Or having Jimmy Graham pass blocking on a crucial 3rd and 4 to put the game away?

This illustrates my point, though. If you watch the full coach's copy, you can see Graham was originally lined up in the slot. Russell calls an audible and gestures to Graham to have him move inline and pass block. Why did he make that decision? I'm not sure. Maybe he had a good reason, but there is no way to know that was Bevell's call. Based on the footage, it looks pretty clear that Russell audibled out of the original formation.

However, once someone points out that "Jimmy was pass blocking on 3rd down", it gets picked up by the entire forum and we all scapegoat the playcaller. Watching what actually happened on that play reveals something different.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I think the reason Bevell still has a job here is because Pete is a fundamentals guy, not a details guy. Pete sees beauty in simplicity. Watching many other OCs around the league reminds me every weekend just how much there is to know about football. The league is full of chessmasters, but I've never gotten that chessmaster vibe from Bevell. Really the best thing I can say about him is that he will adopt clever plays from the college game every once in a while, but for all we know that could just be a Pete thing.

Could not agree more.

Watching Sunday's game showed how far behind Bevell is to his peers in the creativity department. Hue Jackson schooled him, and had our defense confused several times during the game. How often do we see Sherman being assigned to a WR? How often do you see Kam completely confused?

To me it showed what a contender would look like with a Top 3 OC .. and what one looks like with a Bottom 5 one.

We have too much talent on offense, OL be damned, to be this predictable, this vanilla, and this crappy. Like Scotte said.. short of Lynch carrying 8 guys on his back or Russell's fire drill plays - what is this offense? This isn't the first year it's been this way either, it's just magnified now with Lynch's injuries and all the woes in protection and passing as a whole.

Bevell already cost us one Super Bowl folks, and that championship window is not staying open as long as people would like to believe.

 

[kearly]

Or having Jimmy Graham pass blocking on a crucial 3rd and 4 to put the game away?

This illustrates my point, though. If you watch the full coach's copy, you can see Graham was originally lined up in the slot. Russell calls an audible and gestures to Graham to have him move inline and pass block. Why did he make that decision? I'm not sure. Maybe he had a good reason, but there is no way to know that was Bevell's call. Based on the footage, it looks pretty clear that Russell audibled out of the original formation.

However, once someone points out that "Jimmy was pass blocking on 3rd down", it gets picked up by the entire forum and we all scapegoat the playcaller. Watching what actually happened on that play reveals something different.

Fair enough, but I've seen Jimmy Graham pass blocking on 3rd downs several times this year. The simple fact is that Seattle traded for Jimmy Graham only to use him like Zach Miller. I liked the Graham trade because I thought even Bevell wouldn't be that dumb, but I was wrong.