Pay Wilson Or Not..

[chris98251]

It all comes down to whether we sign him closer to 30 million or to 40 million.

If we bargain him down we can MAYBE keep Reed.. but we lose Clark for sure.

If we pay him 35 million or more, we lose both Reed and Clark... and we're right back to square one - absolutely no chance of competing for a Superbowl.

This is exactly why I have a strong opinion on not to do this..Get weaker all
around for what?I thought the goal was SB's and if that's not happening
then time for a change.
You go against common thinking and get strong all around.
Plug a game manager in there until the next great one comes
but you have a better shot at SB's spreading the cap around.

Weaker "all around" is another big exaggeration. Wilson gets $32-34 million or you get a Ryan Tannehill for $20m.
You go with Tannehill and save $14 million. That gets you 1 great player or 2 good ones but hardly weaker "all around".

Time to reboot your panic button IMO.

Trying to find where Tannehill has led the league in comebacks, wins every year since coming in the league, and Super Bowl appearances, I'll keep looking cause it must be there if you say he is about equal but cheaper.

 

[Seymour]

It all comes down to whether we sign him closer to 30 million or to 40 million.

If we bargain him down we can MAYBE keep Reed.. but we lose Clark for sure.

If we pay him 35 million or more, we lose both Reed and Clark... and we're right back to square one - absolutely no chance of competing for a Superbowl.

This is exactly why I have a strong opinion on not to do this..Get weaker all
around for what?I thought the goal was SB's and if that's not happening
then time for a change.
You go against common thinking and get strong all around.
Plug a game manager in there until the next great one comes
but you have a better shot at SB's spreading the cap around.

Weaker "all around" is another big exaggeration. Wilson gets $32-34 million or you get a Ryan Tannehill for $20m.
You go with Tannehill and save $14 million. That gets you 1 great player or 2 good ones but hardly weaker "all around".

Time to reboot your panic button IMO.

Trying to find where Tannehill has led the league in comebacks, wins every year since coming in the league, and Super Bowl appearances, I'll keep looking cause it must be there if you say he is about equal but cheaper.

You don't read real well. Not even close to what I said and wrong person. I'm for keeping Wilson.
You might start with reading the post I responded to.

 

[chris98251]

This is exactly why I have a strong opinion on not to do this..Get weaker all
around for what?I thought the goal was SB's and if that's not happening
then time for a change.
You go against common thinking and get strong all around.
Plug a game manager in there until the next great one comes
but you have a better shot at SB's spreading the cap around.

Weaker "all around" is another big exaggeration. Wilson gets $32-34 million or you get a Ryan Tannehill for $20m.
You go with Tannehill and save $14 million. That gets you 1 great player or 2 good ones but hardly weaker "all around".

Time to reboot your panic button IMO.

Trying to find where Tannehill has led the league in comebacks, wins every year since coming in the league, and Super Bowl appearances, I'll keep looking cause it must be there if you say he is about equal but cheaper.

You don't read real well. Not even close to what I said and wrong person. I'm for keeping Wilson.
You might start with reading the post I responded to.

I would look at Foles or Wentz before Tannehill which ever the Eagles decide not to re sign, fact is you used Tannehill is what grabbed my attention, do apologize for the misinterpretation however

 

[Seahawker]

The six highest paid QB's all missed the playoffs this season.
A. Rodgers 33.5
M. Ryan 30
K. Cousins 28
J. Garoppolo 27.5
M. Stafford 27
D. Carr 25

QB's in the playoffs
L. Jackson 2.37
D. Watson 3.46
P. Mahomes 4.1
N. Foles 5.5
J. Goff 6.98

The success Pete & John had early on was largely because RW was on his rookie contract.
60M won't go very far considering we have 14 unrestricted FA's & some important restricted guys to retain, including negotiations with Wilson, Clark, Reed, KJ, Fluker, Sweezy ect., not to mention Bobby in 20'. They will (all) want significantly more money, a slew of one year deals ending, coupled with Wilson/Clark makes 19' the toughest offseason of the Carroll era. Injuries and attitudes were just a handy excuse for prematurely losing the LOB (minus Kam), Bennett & the like, truth is they were unsustainable.
I give JS & PC credit for ramping up to win a superbowl every offseason, even if the Graham, Harvin, Richardson types never were the difference makers we had hoped, they spent the $ trying to put us over the top. Even with the salary cap increasing 10M each year I see the Seahawks with limited cap room over the next 3 years. Moving forward there will have to be even more emphasis on developing & coaching young players and hiding their weaknesses through schemes. Which is what we did this year with the running game, mostly to protect our young defense from giving up too many points.

With Carroll signing an extension & with an impending ownership change, I can see a three year SB window under the current regime that has brought us so much success. With such a short time frame it would be stupid not to do everything within reason to retain the talents of Wilson/Clark & the long list of our needed FA's. Losing too many key players will result in another retooling with a rebuild on the horizon.
Even if you love Wilson, it's fun to imagine what this FO could do armed with 3 first round picks & $30M in cap relief.
I guess the point of this post is that it will be very difficult for Wilson/Carroll/Schneider to win another superbowl, whatever direction they choose. Not impossible, but a lot of things have to fall in place roster wise and we will need some luck with injuries & the officials... & win enough games to have HFA.

 

[Seymour]

The six highest paid QB's all missed the playoffs this season.
A. Rodgers 33.5
M. Ryan 30
K. Cousins 28
J. Garoppolo 27.5
M. Stafford 27
D. Carr 25

QB's in the playoffs
L. Jackson 2.37
D. Watson 3.46
P. Mahomes 4.1
N. Foles 5.5
J. Goff 6.98

The success Pete & John had early on was largely because RW was on his rookie contract.
60M won't go very far considering we have 14 unrestricted FA's & some important restricted guys to retain, including negotiations with Wilson, Clark, Reed, KJ, Fluker, Sweezy ect., not to mention Bobby in 20'. They will (all) want significantly more money, a slew of one year deals ending, coupled with Wilson/Clark makes 19' the toughest offseason of the Carroll era. Injuries and attitudes were just a handy excuse for prematurely losing the LOB (minus Kam), Bennett & the like, truth is they were unsustainable.
I give JS & PC credit for ramping up to win a superbowl every offseason, even if the Graham, Harvin, Richardson types never were the difference makers we had hoped, they spent the $ trying to put us over the top. Even with the salary cap increasing 10M each year I see the Seahawks with limited cap room over the next 3 years. Moving forward there will have to be even more emphasis on developing & coaching young players and hiding their weaknesses through schemes. Which is what we did this year with the running game, mostly to protect our young defense from giving up too many points.

With Carroll signing an extension & with an impending ownership change, I can see a three year SB window under the current regime that has brought us so much success. With such a short time frame it would be stupid not to do everything within reason to retain the talents of Wilson/Clark & the long list of our needed FA's. Losing too many key players will result in another retooling with a rebuild on the horizon.
Even if you love Wilson, it's fun to imagine what this FO could do armed with 3 first round picks & $30M in cap relief.
I guess the point of this post is that it will be very difficult for Wilson/Carroll/Schneider to win another superbowl, whatever direction they choose. Not impossible, but a lot of things have to fall in place roster wise and we will need some luck with injuries & the officials... & win enough games to have HFA.

It goes way beyond Wilson.

Wilson, Wagner, Baldwin, Kam, Sherman were all on their first contracts and the Seahawks were saving apx. $64 million between them when we won it all (over last contract value). They need to hit far more than a rookie RW caliber QB to reproduce that situation! I've said this many times....once more. That allowed us to buy a SB roster and that is how we won.

 

[MeanBlueGreen]

Sigh.

Russell Wilson is a ONCE IN A GENERATION QB.

Shall we revisit the 1990's? Do we have THAT short of memories?

Kemp? Friesz? Gelbaugh? McGwire? Shall I go on?

You pay him top dollar because he is WORTH IT.

Or don't. And let's pay a bunch of peripheral players top dollar and watch how much it translates to SQUAT when you have some average shlub as QB. Let's see how that works out for us.

:roll:

Yes. This. Duh.

Some stats:

Most passing yards in a playoff game by a rookie: 385
Most regular season wins by a quarterback in his first two seasons (24); most total wins in first two seasons (28, including playoffs)
Most regular season wins by a quarterback in his first three seasons: 36
Most regular season wins by a quarterback in his first four seasons: 46
Most regular season wins by a quarterback in his first five seasons: 56 (tied with Matt Ryan)
Most regular season wins by a quarterback in his first six seasons: 65
Most regular season wins by a quarterback in his first seven seasons: 75
First quarterback to throw for 300+ yards and rush for 100+ yards in a single game (vs St. Louis Rams)
Most games 1+ passing touchdowns, season (tied with twelve other players): 16, 2015
Most consecutive games with 3+ touchdown passes and no interceptions: 5, 2015
2nd highest passer rating, career (minimum 1,500 attempts): 100.1
First and the only quarterback in NFL history to throw 3+ passing touchdowns and no interceptions in five consecutive games
First and the only quarterback to have a passer rating of 128.3 or higher in five consecutive games
First and the only quarterback in NFL history to have 4,000+ passing yards, 30+ passing touchdowns, and 500+ rushing yards in the same season (2015).

 

[mrt144]

The six highest paid QB's all missed the playoffs this season.
A. Rodgers 33.5
M. Ryan 30
K. Cousins 28
J. Garoppolo 27.5
M. Stafford 27
D. Carr 25

QB's in the playoffs
L. Jackson 2.37
D. Watson 3.46
P. Mahomes 4.1
N. Foles 5.5
J. Goff 6.98

The success Pete & John had early on was largely because RW was on his rookie contract.
60M won't go very far considering we have 14 unrestricted FA's & some important restricted guys to retain, including negotiations with Wilson, Clark, Reed, KJ, Fluker, Sweezy ect., not to mention Bobby in 20'. They will (all) want significantly more money, a slew of one year deals ending, coupled with Wilson/Clark makes 19' the toughest offseason of the Carroll era. Injuries and attitudes were just a handy excuse for prematurely losing the LOB (minus Kam), Bennett & the like, truth is they were unsustainable.
I give JS & PC credit for ramping up to win a superbowl every offseason, even if the Graham, Harvin, Richardson types never were the difference makers we had hoped, they spent the $ trying to put us over the top. Even with the salary cap increasing 10M each year I see the Seahawks with limited cap room over the next 3 years. Moving forward there will have to be even more emphasis on developing & coaching young players and hiding their weaknesses through schemes. Which is what we did this year with the running game, mostly to protect our young defense from giving up too many points.

With Carroll signing an extension & with an impending ownership change, I can see a three year SB window under the current regime that has brought us so much success. With such a short time frame it would be stupid not to do everything within reason to retain the talents of Wilson/Clark & the long list of our needed FA's. Losing too many key players will result in another retooling with a rebuild on the horizon.
Even if you love Wilson, it's fun to imagine what this FO could do armed with 3 first round picks & $30M in cap relief.
I guess the point of this post is that it will be very difficult for Wilson/Carroll/Schneider to win another superbowl, whatever direction they choose. Not impossible, but a lot of things have to fall in place roster wise and we will need some luck with injuries & the officials... & win enough games to have HFA.

It goes way beyond Wilson.

Wilson, Wagner, Baldwin, Kam, Sherman were all on their first contracts and the Seahawks were saving apx. $64 million between them when we won it all (over last contract value). They need to hit far more than a rookie RW caliber QB to reproduce that situation! I've said this many times....once more. That allowed us to buy a SB roster and that is how we won.

That's been my sentiment as well whenever someone invokes the 'rookie qb' clause. Like that's super myopic given the situation we actually enjoyed from the 2010-2012 draft hauls. There's also been a ton of wasted money on players besides Wilson, in amounts that come pretty close to his annual salary hit, for far far far less value.

Yes, Wilson is an important part of the pie puzzle but to hone in on only him...nah man, nah.

 

[Bigpumpkin]

KJ Wright was on 950 and sounds like he doesn't think they are planning to sign him (contrary to what flim flam Pete speaks). No contract discussions going on with him, and he is planning to look at offers.

They are likely waiting to see the Kendricks verdict and giving him first crack from the sounds of it. Bummer....he is a great dude.

Point being....they are looking to save for something like Wilson, Wagner, Reed, Clark.

The Seahawk Front Office is caught between a rock and a hard place. They will be damned if they "do pay KJ and Wilson" and damned if they don't. Not an enviable position to be in!!! Bottom line....how much of a pay cut will Russ take?

 

[mrt144]

KJ Wright was on 950 and sounds like he doesn't think they are planning to sign him (contrary to what flim flam Pete speaks). No contract discussions going on with him, and he is planning to look at offers.

They are likely waiting to see the Kendricks verdict and giving him first crack from the sounds of it. Bummer....he is a great dude.

Point being....they are looking to save for something like Wilson, Wagner, Reed, Clark.

The Seahawk Front Office is caught between a rock and a hard place. They will be damned if they "do pay KJ and Wilson" and damned if they don't. Not an enviable position to be in!!! Bottom line....how much of a pay cut will Russ take?

The weird thing to me is that if in 2016 you asked me who we should possibly let go from our D to save money, I'd have said KJ Wright. Given all the other players on D being as good as they were I though his salary to value was the most expendable. But now...given the changes?

RW should ask the question of how many boneheads the FO will make if he takes a paycut

 

[Seymour]

KJ Wright was on 950 and sounds like he doesn't think they are planning to sign him (contrary to what flim flam Pete speaks). No contract discussions going on with him, and he is planning to look at offers.

They are likely waiting to see the Kendricks verdict and giving him first crack from the sounds of it. Bummer....he is a great dude.

Point being....they are looking to save for something like Wilson, Wagner, Reed, Clark.

The Seahawk Front Office is caught between a rock and a hard place. They will be damned if they "do pay KJ and Wilson" and damned if they don't. Not an enviable position to be in!!! Bottom line....how much of a pay cut will Russ take?

The weird thing to me is that if in 2016 you asked me who we should possibly let go from our D to save money, I'd have said KJ Wright. Given all the other players on D being as good as they were I though his salary to value was the most expendable. But now...given the changes?

RW should ask the question of how many boneheads the FO will make if he takes a paycut

Exactly. "Russ, you take a pay cut and we can better protect you".....Ya like you did with $7M to Joeckel last year?

Luke Joeckel is unemployed after we cut him lose.

 

[Tical21]

Seahawks are hoping the market is low for KJ. They need him.

This conversation is a little ridiculous. They are going to pay Russell. It's a 100% chance. Why bother thinking about it?

 

[DomeHawk]

I can't even imagine that this is even a thread.

 

[John63]

The six highest paid QB's all missed the playoffs this season.
A. Rodgers 33.5
M. Ryan 30
K. Cousins 28
J. Garoppolo 27.5
M. Stafford 27
D. Carr 25

QB's in the playoffs
L. Jackson 2.37
D. Watson 3.46
P. Mahomes 4.1
N. Foles 5.5
J. Goff 6.98

The success Pete & John had early on was largely because RW was on his rookie contract.
60M won't go very far considering we have 14 unrestricted FA's & some important restricted guys to retain, including negotiations with Wilson, Clark, Reed, KJ, Fluker, Sweezy ect., not to mention Bobby in 20'. They will (all) want significantly more money, a slew of one year deals ending, coupled with Wilson/Clark makes 19' the toughest offseason of the Carroll era. Injuries and attitudes were just a handy excuse for prematurely losing the LOB (minus Kam), Bennett & the like, truth is they were unsustainable.
I give JS & PC credit for ramping up to win a superbowl every offseason, even if the Graham, Harvin, Richardson types never were the difference makers we had hoped, they spent the $ trying to put us over the top. Even with the salary cap increasing 10M each year I see the Seahawks with limited cap room over the next 3 years. Moving forward there will have to be even more emphasis on developing & coaching young players and hiding their weaknesses through schemes. Which is what we did this year with the running game, mostly to protect our young defense from giving up too many points.

With Carroll signing an extension & with an impending ownership change, I can see a three year SB window under the current regime that has brought us so much success. With such a short time frame it would be stupid not to do everything within reason to retain the talents of Wilson/Clark & the long list of our needed FA's. Losing too many key players will result in another retooling with a rebuild on the horizon.
Even if you love Wilson, it's fun to imagine what this FO could do armed with 3 first round picks & $30M in cap relief.
I guess the point of this post is that it will be very difficult for Wilson/Carroll/Schneider to win another superbowl, whatever direction they choose. Not impossible, but a lot of things have to fall in place roster wise and we will need some luck with injuries & the officials... & win enough games to have HFA.

Interesting no Luck who is top 10 I believe, Brees who is #7 paid, and several others a mistake I am sure LOL

 

[Fade]

The six highest paid QB's all missed the playoffs this season.
A. Rodgers 33.5
M. Ryan 30
K. Cousins 28
J. Garoppolo 27.5
M. Stafford 27
D. Carr 25

4 of those 6 QBs suck. So yeah if you pay a bad QB you're not going to the playoffs.

So that leaves Rodgers & Ryan. They just signed their deals, so the impact of big cap numbers haven't had time to manifest yet.

Rodgers quit on his coach. They had chemistry issues, and his cap number wasn't big this year.

Ryan had a bad OC, and the Falcons suffered a boat load of injuries to their defense. Cap number was manageable.


The problem is teams just pay the next Free Agent QB big money regardless if they are worthy. That is what should be under indictment here not whether or not to pay a future HoFer, or in Wilson's case 6 probowls in 7 years.

The lesson is don't pay a bad QB. Wilson doesn't fall into that category fortunately.

 

[Greenhell]

Instead of letting him lead with three scores we need him to barely make us win.

So this coaching requires a QB that can win it which is ironic since it lacks the courage to let him lead us to a win for four quarters.

I hate this about Pete and the game planning. Hate IT!!!!

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, a couple things are a given: They WILL pay him, and people WILL whine and moan about how much $ they paid him.

 

[Rat]

Well, a couple things are a given: They WILL pay him, and people WILL whine and moan about how much $ they paid him.

You should post this another 700 times.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Instead of letting him lead with three scores we need him to barely make us win.

So this coaching requires a QB that can win it which is ironic since it lacks the courage to let him lead us to a win for four quarters.

I hate this about Pete and the game planning. Hate IT!!!!

So what you guys are saying is risk turning the ball over more vs. play more conservative and have a +15 turnover differential, which has been proven to contribute greatly to winning.

Because you can't have it both ways. You throw the ball around more, that means more risk and more turnovers.

This is the very heart of how Pete wants the offense to run. Ball control and take it away more than you give it up.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

:laugh: wow, you got me there Rat, maybe worry about yourself. Feel free to scroll on. Don't like what I have to say, don't care.

 

[Seymour]

Instead of letting him lead with three scores we need him to barely make us win.

So this coaching requires a QB that can win it which is ironic since it lacks the courage to let him lead us to a win for four quarters.

I hate this about Pete and the game planning. Hate IT!!!!

So what you guys are saying is risk turning the ball over more vs. play more conservative and have a +15 turnover differential, which has been proven to contribute greatly to winning.

Because you can't have it both ways. You throw the ball around more, that means more risk and more turnovers.

This is the very heart of how Pete wants the offense to run. Ball control and take it away more than you give it up.

There is little to no difference between a 3 and out with a net 40 punt and an interception 40 yards down field.

We had (6) 3 and outs against the Girls. Some of those ARE turnovers when you consider our coverage unit. :177692:

Let that sink in......