Penny

[hawkfan68]

It's funny how hypocritical some fans are regarding players. They take shots at Penny for not living up to his draft selection but nothing regarding Pocic. Pocic was not a 1st round pick but a top round of the draft (2nd rounder). Pocic has been on the team for 2 years and still can't beat out undrafted FAs or lower draft picks (Simmons, Hunt, etc) for a spot. When he plays he's more a liability than an asset. Good OL was every much a need as a healthy running game going into the season.
At least Penny has given some production his rookie year....so far Pocic hasn't.

 

[oldhawkfan]

Penny was a waste of draft resources, pure and simple.

No. This couldn’t be farther from the truth. The resources expended on him cannot be looked at through 2018 season shades. Look at his acquisition using last off season shades. The running game was non existent. Chris Carson has one good game and was on injured reserve as a 7thround pick. RB was a high priority if not the highest.

 

[Spin Doctor]

It's funny how hypocritical some fans are regarding players. They take shots at Penny for not living up to his draft selection but nothing regarding Pocic. Pocic was not a 1st round pick but a top round of the draft (2nd rounder). Pocic has been on the team for 2 years and still can't beat out undrafted FAs or lower draft picks (Simmons, Hunt, etc) for a spot. When he plays he's more a liability than an asset. Good OL was every much a need as a healthy running game going into the season.
At least Penny has given some production his rookie year....so far Pocic hasn't.

Procic has been getting a lot of hate around here recently if you haven't noticed. The thing with Procic is people were thinking it was Cables hubris that was keeping him out of play. When he did play last season he didn't look as bad as our other guards. Sure, he still got beat, and he was absolutely worthless against the bull rush, but he didn't outright get hammered like some of the other slobs we put in.

Fast forward to this season, he looks to have actually regressed, or rather the players around him got better and he didn't. He was also taken in the second round towards the end at an area of need that was most dire for the Seahawks.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

It's funny how hypocritical some fans are regarding players. They take shots at Penny for not living up to his draft selection but nothing regarding Pocic. Pocic was not a 1st round pick but a top round of the draft (2nd rounder). Pocic has been on the team for 2 years and still can't beat out undrafted FAs or lower draft picks (Simmons, Hunt, etc) for a spot. When he plays he's more a liability than an asset. Good OL was every much a need as a healthy running game going into the season.
At least Penny has given some production his rookie year....so far Pocic hasn't.

Procic has been getting a lot of hate around here recently if you haven't noticed. The thing with Procic is people were thinking it was Cables hubris that was keeping him out of play. When he did play last season he didn't look as bad as our other guards. Sure, he still got beat, and he was absolutely worthless against the bull rush, but he didn't outright get hammered like some of the other slobs we put in.

Fast forward to this season, he looks to have actually regressed, or rather the players around him got better and he didn't. He was also taken in the second round towards the end at an area of need that was most dire for the Seahawks.

Agree that 2017 Pocic was markedly better than 2018 Pocic, even if neither was a world-beater.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

A few facts on Penny

3) Mike Davis is a better RB than him.

Man, just stop. This is 100% bull. Yes, Davis ran over Arizona and to an extent, the Rams. Two bottom 5 run defenses. Davis is nothing special. Don't lie to yourself.

With that being said, while I love Penny's potential and upside, he has a ways to go. The vision, burst, and speed are there. But he definitely needs to toughen up. It's no secret he goes down way too easily, which is a bummer. He lead the nation in yards created after initial contact for RBs last year. For reference, I believe Nick Chubb leads the league in that category this year (at least I know he did two weeks ago). I still think he can be the RB of the future here, but he's not there yet. He needs to commit himself to a strict regimen this off-season in regards to his diet and strength/conditioning. I think he will and that he'll be extremely motivated come OTAs.

Ok, Davis was pretty solid this season. All of the top 3 RBs had relatively productive seasons.

Carson: 276 touches, 1316 Yards, 9 TDs
Davis: 146 touches, 728 Yards, 5 TDs
Penny: 94 touches, 474 Yards, 2 TDs

The Seahawks primary backfield just combined for 2500 yards, 16 TDs.

Davis was a good player, he ran with a no- nonsense tough style, was the best receiver and best blocker out of the backfield this season. He was the third most productive player after Carson and Lockett. Had he been a starter for a check down team it wouldn’t surprise me if he could have got 1200-1400 Total Yards and 8+ TDs.

He flashed some of that last season in 2017 but I don’t think the Seahawks were prepared for him to make the jump he did this off-season. Davis’s advantages though was being a 4th year player, with at least a year and half within Seattle’s system, and he remained relatively healthy throughout the off-season/season and competed to carve out his niche while Schotty and Co. figured out thier scheme and its functionality.

Compared to Penny who for some reason came out of shape in his rookie season, dealt with injuries, dealt with some heavy competition against guys with more overall experience, adjusted expectations, and more or less in prime physical condition. But Penny found a niche complementing the other two RBs as a guy who do damage on the edges and make splash plays out of nothing.

I’m very pleased with the RB group this season, the top 3 guys all brought something to the table whether it was Carson’s Lynch-like physicality, Davis’ well-rounded consistency, or Penny’s improvisation. It all added up to a dominate rushing attack.

Don’t even care if Penny was a first round pick or who we could have drafted instead. He still flashed potential and was still reasonably productive through it all. And his career is still active, he’s still learning, developing, and growing within himself and the offense.

Christine Michael in 3 seasons with the Seahawks produced 615 yards, 0 TDs off 110 carries,

And Penny was has been about has active as CJ Prosise has been in the totality of 3 seasons. And probably more productive than both Prosise and Lacy was last season.

So I don’t even get the point of this thread. Penny imo has shown more in just raw potential in a rookie season in terms of what he can be for the future than any Seahawks RB drafted under Carroll not including Carson. The Seahawks drafted Turbin, Michael, Ware, Prosise, Collins. I believe.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

So I don’t even get the point of this thread

It has to do with validating the use of draft collateral. People are pretty sensitive about whether a first-round pick earns its worth, and I don't entirely disagree. Those picks can be franchise-changers - depending on what part of the first round you're talking about.

Where I'd disagree is the popular if unconscious assumption that all first-round picks are equal in expected value. They're really not. There's a general talent dropoff after the first 20 picks, to where the last 10 picks or so of the first round are typically about the same talent level as those who go in the early or mid second. That's why perpetually winning franchises are often drafting in "maintenance mode", i.e. picking in the late first a lot and thus missing out on some truly transformative talent unless they out-scout other teams or just get a steal.

Penny went #27. It helps if you consider him an early second-rounder. Because of the way people's minds work when they hear "first" vs. "second", if Penny had even gone with the 33rd pick, I think there'd be a lot less angst over the fact that he didn't move worlds this year.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

I've seen him look great and look horrible. Will he get better yes he will. He did have some really nice big plays this year so to me it's going to come down to this does he have the work ethic and toughness we just don't know yet.

 

[knownone]

The biggest knock against Penny coming out was that he was a slow learner. I'll hold off judgment on his perceived draft value until next season.

 

[quadsas]

I would only be happy with Penny as insurance option for Carson...Chris would need to completely stop improving and regress before losing his job.

 

[WestcoastSteve]

I would only be happy with Penny as insurance option for Carson...Chris would need to completely stop improving and regress before losing his job.

Carson is fairly injury prone as well. That Rams game in LA with no Carson -- Penny stepped up.

To say he is a waste of draft resources is a foolish comment. Coming into the season we needed to upgrade our RB room and we did that. I think drafting Penny clearly motivated Davis and Carson to step up their game this year.

 

[quadsas]

I would only be happy with Penny as insurance option for Carson...Chris would need to completely stop improving and regress before losing his job.

Carson is fairly injury prone as well. That Rams game in LA with no Carson -- Penny stepped up.

To say he is a waste of draft resources is a foolish comment. Coming into the season we needed to upgrade our RB room and we did that. I think drafting Penny clearly motivated Davis and Carson to step up their game this year.

People are upset now because in hindsight that's a terrible pick. Not that it was great on the draft day, but I don't think it's foolish to think it was a waste. You spent a 1st rounder on a RB, he better be a generational talent.

 

[Spin Doctor]

So I don’t even get the point of this thread

It has to do with validating the use of draft collateral. People are pretty sensitive about whether a first-round pick earns its worth, and I don't entirely disagree. Those picks can be franchise-changers - depending on what part of the first round you're talking about.

Where I'd disagree is the popular if unconscious assumption that all first-round picks are equal in expected value. They're really not. There's a general talent dropoff after the first 20 picks, to where the last 10 picks or so of the first round are typically about the same talent level as those who go in the early or mid second. That's why perpetually winning franchises are often drafting in "maintenance mode", i.e. picking in the late first a lot and thus missing out on some truly transformative talent unless they out-scout other teams or just get a steal.

Penny went #27. It helps if you consider him an early second-rounder. Because of the way people's minds work when they hear "first" vs. "second", if Penny had even gone with the 33rd pick, I think there'd be a lot less angst over the fact that he didn't move worlds this year.

My gripe with Penny is I just never thought he was that good coming out of college. He is exactly what I thought he was going to be thus far. I'm also of the opinion that if you're going to be taking a running back high you better view them as some sort of game changing talent or at least a guy that can be your feature back/center piece. I don't think Penny is that. I do think that we needed a running back, but this draft was very deep at the position which made the selection of Penny all the more perplexing to me.

I really think a trade back into the second, and drafting Hernandez should have been the play. Our line play has been fantastic this season, but we're using a patchwork offensive line. Sweezy, and Fluker both have really bad injury histories as well as a problems with consistency throughout their career. They cannot be our long term solutions, hence why I really wanted Hernandez. His presence would lock down the right or left guard position for the next 4-8 years. It hurts all the more that he is killing it in NY.

 

[Donn2390]

The 'Hawks have been proving the experts wrong all season, soon Mr Penny will be making fools out of the naysayers.
He will excel, don't get in such a hurry, he will be da man...!!

 

[chris98251]

Marshawn Lynch is a bust and head case, he lost his starter position, why are we even looking at him.