People Outside Seattle Just Do Not Understand Russell Wilson

[LoneHawkFan]

I know people in several states; Cowboys fans, Packers, Chiefs, Niners fan, StL, Philly fans, Redskins, Saints, Titans...and for the most part not only is our team highly respected by them...Russell Wilson is envied by the whole lot of them. I know some folks don't get it, but it's been my experience these last few years that the common fans of other teams- die hards I'm talkin- know Russell Wilson is awesome.

I believe the anti- RW sentiment is nearly 100% of the time exhibited by people who think they know more than they really do. Mostly a minority of pretentious idiots who can't really involve themselves in any critical thinking exercises. Pretentious blowhards is all that's left of the anti's.

So of course we hear it, because of the very type of person that still holds on to that sentiment.

 

[pehawk]

Some of Wilson's problem is his predecessors.

Wilson is changing the definition of QB. He's what Vick was supposed to be. A QB that could throw and run. People are hedging their prognostications based on previous examples. He's compared to Vick more than Steve Young because, well, melanin (I think a lot of times when Russ may come off like a robot or overly scripted its because he realizes he has to because, well, melanin).

Also fantasy football. Fantasy football has done more damage to the game than anything else. It causes the commissioners office to tweak rules advantageous to offenses and it skews fans perceptions. That's one of the many reasons I refuse to play fantasy football. It's a cancer, truly.

XOXO

Joe Gilliam (google it)

The NFL has changed because they have realized what valuable and marketable commodities QBs like Manning, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are. That's why the offensive rules change on the heels (knees) of Brady tearing an ACL or Manning getting knocked out of the playoffs. Not some Yahoo or ESPN fantasy outcry. Offense sells - ask steroids era baseball. The NFL is smart enough to know this, and it's why most casual fans hate Seattle.

Moreover, the rise of fantasy football popularity follows the growth in popularity of the NFL. (and I notice Seahawks fans don't complain about the rise in the cap resulting from better network ratings and thus better deals. Who makes up a significant portion of non-fans that are watching?) It is not the other way around. Correlation does not imply causation. But people must blame a group of which they are not a part because it's easier than thinking through the real causes which would lead them to more difficult territory. In other words: follow the money. How much does fantasy actually make the NFL v. Other Contributions? If it's not fantasy, y'all are scapegoating simply because it's not something you enjoy, and it's shameful.

I wholeheartedly disagree. FF has raised the NFL's popularity tremendously. It removed regional viewer prefrences. 20 years ago, unless you we're an NFL nerd, you wouldn't care about the Panthers v Texans, at all. But now chances are someone you're playing in FF, or you yourself, have a fantasy player on that team. It never even dawned on me that the league would curtail rules to further fantasy points until Sherman mentioned it, actually. I nodded in agreement and still believe it.

 

[45Hawker]

I know people in several states; Cowboys fans, Packers, Chiefs, Niners fan, StL, Philly fans, Redskins, Saints, Titans...and for the most part not only is our team highly respected by them...Russell Wilson is envied by the whole lot of them. I know some folks don't get it, but it's been my experience these last few years that the common fans of other teams- die hards I'm talkin- know Russell Wilson is awesome.

I believe the anti- RW sentiment is nearly 100% of the time exhibited by people who think they know more than they really do. Mostly a minority of pretentious idiots who can't really involve themselves in any critical thinking exercises. Pretentious blowhards is all that's left of the anti's.

Well said. A few things I've learned as an old guy:

1 - People will have different opinions
2 - There are many that are stupid or mis-informed
3 - You can only control how you react to the above. I choose not to react or engage.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I live outside of Seattle(Michigan, in fact)and totally understand Russ. In fact, many folks I know who are from Wisconsin(many Packer fans too) think Russ is the bomb.

People like him a lot in Kansas City also. Actually anywhere in Missouri beyond the St. Louis sphere of influence.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Some of Wilson's problem is his predecessors.

Wilson is changing the definition of QB. He's what Vick was supposed to be. A QB that could throw and run. People are hedging their prognostications based on previous examples. He's compared to Vick more than Steve Young because, well, melanin (I think a lot of times when Russ may come off like a robot or overly scripted its because he realizes he has to because, well, melanin).

Also fantasy football. Fantasy football has done more damage to the game than anything else. It causes the commissioners office to tweak rules advantageous to offenses and it skews fans perceptions. That's one of the many reasons I refuse to play fantasy football. It's a cancer, truly.

XOXO

Joe Gilliam (google it)

The NFL has changed because they have realized what valuable and marketable commodities QBs like Manning, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are. That's why the offensive rules change on the heels (knees) of Brady tearing an ACL or Manning getting knocked out of the playoffs. Not some Yahoo or ESPN fantasy outcry. Offense sells - ask steroids era baseball. The NFL is smart enough to know this, and it's why most casual fans hate Seattle.

Moreover, the rise of fantasy football popularity follows the growth in popularity of the NFL. (and I notice Seahawks fans don't complain about the rise in the cap resulting from better network ratings and thus better deals. Who makes up a significant portion of non-fans that are watching?) It is not the other way around. Correlation does not imply causation. But people must blame a group of which they are not a part because it's easier than thinking through the real causes which would lead them to more difficult territory. In other words: follow the money. How much does fantasy actually make the NFL v. Other Contributions? If it's not fantasy, y'all are scapegoating simply because it's not something you enjoy, and it's shameful.

Bingo. Fantasy Football had nothing to do with the biggest rule changes that started in earnest in the late 70's and early 80's because too many quarterbacks were being put out for the season and sometimes for a career and NOBODY liked it and demanded changes. Fantasy Football put precedence on pure statistics and attracted the gambling aspect far easier. It literally has nothing to do with the actual game itself.

 

[kearly]

I used to be a FF basher too. My brother had to drag me into a league a few years ago. It is a game within the game, the real point of it is to pit your "moneyball" skills against others. There is a degree of talent evaluation that goes into it, having knowledge of players going back to their college days really helps, but for the most part it is a contest of who can identify statistical value the best.

Personally, I would strongly disagree with anyone who thinks it's bad for the game. Before FF, I only watched Seahawks games or games that were relevant to the Seahawks. Having a fantasy team with players from around the league has greatly increased the amount of enjoyment from watching other NFL teams, and because I am watching other teams, I learn things about the league and its players I would have never learned from just watching the Seahawks.

Watching Matt Forte produce in Chicago has informed me of what Christine Michael could be capable of in a similar offense, because both are stellar dumpoff receivers. Watching Emmanuel Sanders in Denver has given insight into the kind of player Paul Richardson could become. Watching games around the league has given me a much better grasp of who the good coaches are, too.

It has greatly enriched my football viewing experience. There is more to football than rooting for laundry, and fantasy football helps fans get in touch with the finer side of the game by watching games and learning things they wouldn't have been exposed to otherwise.

It has also been a huge boon to the popularity of the league, and gives fans of super crappy teams an escape from misery. It brings in new fans. Like all fans they need time to mature.

I love the fact that the NFL is so hyper popular right now. It has its downsides, but seeing the NFL's influence in America grow has been a treat, especially since the Seahawks are currently the NFL's best team. Fifteen years ago, the Hawks were the NFL's most 'socially awkward' team. Now they are the belle of the ball during a time when the NFL is reaching new heights of national prominence.

 

[kearly]

I know people in several states; Cowboys fans, Packers, Chiefs, Niners fan, StL, Philly fans, Redskins, Saints, Titans...and for the most part not only is our team highly respected by them...Russell Wilson is envied by the whole lot of them. I know some folks don't get it, but it's been my experience these last few years that the common fans of other teams- die hards I'm talkin- know Russell Wilson is awesome.

I believe the anti- RW sentiment is nearly 100% of the time exhibited by people who think they know more than they really do. Mostly a minority of pretentious idiots who can't really involve themselves in any critical thinking exercises. Pretentious blowhards is all that's left of the anti's.

So of course we hear it, because of the very type of person that still holds on to that sentiment.

Agree 100%.

 

[DavidSeven]

If we did not have Russell Wilson, we would be like the Arizona Cardinals (without Carson Palmer) or the St Louis Rams (without Sam Bradford).

I disagree. We have the number one rushing offense - which would still be good without Wilson - and the number one defense in the game.

Something that is often overlooked is that QB play is often directly linked to the effectiveness of the defense and run game. This is especially true on a team like Seattle that builds its entire offense around protecting the defense and opening holes in the run game. Limiting TOs and winning the possession and field position battles helps your defense. Hitting passes and the ability to get out on the edge helps your run game.

Russell helps both our defense and our run game be as good as it is. Both would likely be very good with any average QB, but an elite point guard QB is what helps both be historically elite. We would not lead the NFL in scoring D three years in a row if our QB threw a pick 6 every other week (*ahem* Luck).

 

[scutterhawk]

All you have to do is take a one hour drive to figure out what the median intelligence level of the general populace is. Many folks drive at the level of their incompetence, so they are easily exposed.

It applies to everything including politics. My own opinion is that we have collectively gone away from fact based intellectualism, and dove into a world of popular opinion propped up by the interconnected consciousness called the internet. There is money to be made from access to a large group of easily accessible dimwits. Hence, the infrastructure reinforces it. Clicks = $$$$ so the dimwits get an uninformed voice.

This example of the Minnesota fan is the smallest of sample size, but very representative. The fact that we are constantly exposed to it collectively pollutes our minds. Clayton should know better than to give the guy a forum, except that he used it as a platform to debunk his argument.

OMG how true! He looked all world juking that Cardinal on his way to the end zone People are seeing him on TV beating all these good teams and they have to recognize he's good. Wait until the announcers start talking him up that's when they'll know

Yep, they have to wait for someone to turn the lights on, so's they can see what's going on, cuz they're too dumb to even realize that there's a light switch.
Most times, they don't have an opinion on their own, so they use someone else's.

 

[scutterhawk]

When people point to fantasy football as being the reason it's not as specific as you are taking it. It's popularity of fantasy football and the general trend from it towards volume stats being how you judge and value players. Yes, Russ' running makes him actually a more valuable player. But only his specific owners will realize this. The golden volume passers will continue to get drafted ahead of him next year. Just watch. Perception still remains in his mostly 200 yard passing games. The magical 300 yard game has always been easy standard to say a qb had a good game. And until Russ hits it routinely, lazy ignorant fans will continue to miss the train on this dude.

I'll explain it this way. There are certain players who are thought little of around the league that are heroes in fantasy football. Maybe the best example ever: Tony Romo. To the rest of the world, Tony Romo is the guy who chokes in December and January, and who always finishes 8-8. But in the FF world, Romo is the 8th round pick who always produces like a 4th round pick. If anything, the FF community actually acts as a counter-balance to the rampant anti-Romo sentiment you find everywhere else.

With Wilson being a perenial late round pick and now finishing very close to #1 in scoring, he's going to be the guy that takes the mantle from Romo as the QB that FF GMs like more than ESPN does. FF players would be the last people on earth to bash Wilson at this point.

I realize the point you are making, that "fantasy football culture" is more metaphor than fact, but for clarity's sake I'm just pointing out that this is an ironic metaphor at odds with reality.

The idiots who cite 300 yards have nothing to do with FF. They are probably fans of teams who build their franchises in the typical, unimaginative way... with pure passing offense and 1st round draft pick QBs. The Falcons, Packers, Broncos, Colts, etc. They think drafting a QB #1 overall and aiming for 5000 yard passing seasons is the way it's supposed to be done (and then hope to get lucky on defense), because so many teams do it that way.

Let's be honest, the Seahawks used to be this kind of team too, albeit with a 6th round QB they traded for. When your team is having success with a formula, especially when it's a formula that 90% of the league pursues, it has a way of making fans think that their way of winning is inherently superior.

The difference, obviously, is that Russell has done nothing but win both on the real field and on the virtual field. Fantasy stats are good, win column looks good, and he's a great overall football player. He's so clutch that I'd take him on the field in a 2-minute drive over Romo any day.

Romo? We'll see how far he goes this year on the field.

Could you imagine what Russell Wilson could do with that Cowboys O-Line?...How accepted and popular he would be?

 

[Sac]

Isn't RW the 3rd highest scoring player in all of fantasy football?

 

[scutterhawk]

If we did not have Russell Wilson, we would be like the Arizona Cardinals (without Carson Palmer) or the St Louis Rams (without Sam Bradford).

I disagree. We have the number one rushing offense - which would still be good without Wilson - and the number one defense in the game.

So, you're saying that Russell Wilson's rushing numbers have nothing to do with the Seahawks "number one"Offensive success? or that we could just plug in any other Quarterback, and still have that same success? :roll:

 

[rideaducati]

All you have to do is take a one hour drive to figure out what the median intelligence level of the general populace is. Many folks drive at the level of their incompetence, so they are easily exposed.

It applies to everything including politics. My own opinion is that we have collectively gone away from fact based intellectualism, and dove into a world of popular opinion propped up by the interconnected consciousness called the internet. There is money to be made from access to a large group of easily accessible dimwits. Hence, the infrastructure reinforces it. Clicks = $$$$ so the dimwits get an uninformed voice.

This example of the Minnesota fan is the smallest of sample size, but very representative. The fact that we are constantly exposed to it collectively pollutes our minds. Clayton should know better than to give the guy a forum, except that he used it as a platform to debunk his argument.

OMG how true! He looked all world juking that Cardinal on his way to the end zone People are seeing him on TV beating all these good teams and they have to recognize he's good. Wait until the announcers start talking him up that's when they'll know

The talking heads have a lot to do with why Russell is considered to be ho-hum. Once they tell the majority of dumb people to start thinking that Russell is good, it will happen. The dumb people are just waiting to be told what to think...and waiting.

 

[WilsonMVP]

I used to be a FF basher too. My brother had to drag me into a league a few years ago. It is a game within the game, the real point of it is to pit your "moneyball" skills against others. There is a degree of talent evaluation that goes into it, having knowledge of players going back to their college days really helps, but for the most part it is a contest of who can identify statistical value the best.

Personally, I would strongly disagree with anyone who thinks it's bad for the game. Before FF, I only watched Seahawks games or games that were relevant to the Seahawks. Having a fantasy team with players from around the league has greatly increased the amount of enjoyment from watching other NFL teams, and because I am watching other teams, I learn things about the league and its players I would have never learned from just watching the Seahawks.

Watching Matt Forte produce in Chicago has informed me of what Christine Michael could be capable of in a similar offense, because both are stellar dumpoff receivers. Watching Emmanuel Sanders in Denver has given insight into the kind of player Paul Richardson could become. Watching games around the league has given me a much better grasp of who the good coaches are, too.

It has greatly enriched my football viewing experience. There is more to football than rooting for laundry, and fantasy football helps fans get in touch with the finer side of the game by watching games and learning things they wouldn't have been exposed to otherwise.

It has also been a huge boon to the popularity of the league, and gives fans of super crappy teams an escape from misery. It brings in new fans. Like all fans they need time to mature.

I love the fact that the NFL is so hyper popular right now. It has its downsides, but seeing the NFL's influence in America grow has been a treat, especially since the Seahawks are currently the NFL's best team. Fifteen years ago, the Hawks were the NFL's most 'socially awkward' team. Now they are the belle of the ball during a time when the NFL is reaching new heights of national prominence.

I used to play alot of Fantasy Football before it became overwhelmingly mainstream. Even in the early 2000s it was still kind of a fringe thing. It was ok and it did get me to pay attention to other games but I just didnt like having to cheer against say the Seahawks D if my QB was going up against them or what have you. I just watch any interesting games for the standout players now even though I dont play FF. I love watching Packers and Patriot games because Brady and Rodgers are some of the best QB play the league has EVER seen.

I also have my 1A team- Seahawks and 1B-Vikings to watch and keep tabs on every week and am active on this board and a Vikings board.

 

[KDshouldBeOurMJ]

I'm hoping the "not black enough" thing stemmed from Harvin. If it didn't than I am really let down by our locker room. I can't even believe he gets shit for being the hardest worker on our team and being close with the front office.
But I will continue to believe that left with Harvin, because I don't think he would of been voted captain if he was viewed like that.
For instance, the week before Harvin got traded, my sisters friend had a sideline pass for the Cowboys game. He was hanging out on the sideline watching Wilson and Bevell standing together going over plays, when he heard Bevell call for Harvin to come over and take a look at what they were doing, Harvin wouldn't even acknowledge him so Russ starts asking him to come over, all Percy does is keep his chin turned the other direction and ignoring them. Makes sense that he usually wasn't on the field during 3rd downs and that final drive.
So I was actually pretty happy when he got traded, having just been convinced of how horrible his character is and how much of a selfish diva he is, and a virus to this locker room.... So i'm going to believe that BS doesn't exist or came and went with Percy.

 

[Sarlacc83]

Some of Wilson's problem is his predecessors.

Wilson is changing the definition of QB. He's what Vick was supposed to be. A QB that could throw and run. People are hedging their prognostications based on previous examples. He's compared to Vick more than Steve Young because, well, melanin (I think a lot of times when Russ may come off like a robot or overly scripted its because he realizes he has to because, well, melanin).

Also fantasy football. Fantasy football has done more damage to the game than anything else. It causes the commissioners office to tweak rules advantageous to offenses and it skews fans perceptions. That's one of the many reasons I refuse to play fantasy football. It's a cancer, truly.

XOXO

Joe Gilliam (google it)

The NFL has changed because they have realized what valuable and marketable commodities QBs like Manning, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are. That's why the offensive rules change on the heels (knees) of Brady tearing an ACL or Manning getting knocked out of the playoffs. Not some Yahoo or ESPN fantasy outcry. Offense sells - ask steroids era baseball. The NFL is smart enough to know this, and it's why most casual fans hate Seattle.

Moreover, the rise of fantasy football popularity follows the growth in popularity of the NFL. (and I notice Seahawks fans don't complain about the rise in the cap resulting from better network ratings and thus better deals. Who makes up a significant portion of non-fans that are watching?) It is not the other way around. Correlation does not imply causation. But people must blame a group of which they are not a part because it's easier than thinking through the real causes which would lead them to more difficult territory. In other words: follow the money. How much does fantasy actually make the NFL v. Other Contributions? If it's not fantasy, y'all are scapegoating simply because it's not something you enjoy, and it's shameful.

I wholeheartedly disagree. FF has raised the NFL's popularity tremendously. It removed regional viewer prefrences. 20 years ago, unless you we're an NFL nerd, you wouldn't care about the Panthers v Texans, at all. But now chances are someone you're playing in FF, or you yourself, have a fantasy player on that team. It never even dawned on me that the league would curtail rules to further fantasy points until Sherman mentioned it, actually. I nodded in agreement and still believe it.

And what's your evidence? I can clearly point to the NFL changing rules after the Patriots and Seattle knocked Manning out of the playoffs. The Brady rule. The NFL is protecting its main asset. I can point to the massive endorsements of the QBs I mentioned earlier. How many non-QBs do you see? Watt, Sherman, and Clay Matthews all for Chunky? Any WRs? RBs? If it's all about fantasy? The latter two should show up more frequently. Wilson is similarly well-represented on national commercials - more than any other Seahawk. Which is why I think people hate him; they think he hasn't earned his deals and his goodwill is merely an act to make cash.

Edit: And if Fantasy is so ultra important to the NFL why are Running Backs so devalued. The top 5 picks are usually RB? That doesn't play into your narrative at all.

Kearly already said the rest of what I had thought about adding, so it comes down to uninformed scapegoating due to its ease among older football fans. Don't understand and therefore deride. Yeah, there are terrible people who get mad on Twitter if their star player doesn't perform but they're not different than ESPN commenters. And they are few and far between compared to the whole. So ultimately, if you or anyone else has proof of your accusations, let's hear them. Because it's all blame and hand-waving; no substance whatsoever. Sherman is smart but he's not always right and he has reason to be biased due to run-ins like the above Twitter idiots. Yet, we should be better than excoriation based on guesses.

 

[theincrediblesok]

I think this is a never ending discussion even after Wilson chooses to retire some people will never give him the credit. You can already see it when people discuss Brady and Manning and why each is better than the other. Even after those two retire people will argue who is the better QB. It's like religion or politics, when your already set in your own opinion it's hard to convince the other.

 

[Mick063]

There is a good article on WashingtonsBlog.Com that discuses six reasons why people ignore evidence that requires them to change their minds. Highly recommended, particularly to "big picture" kinds of people.

Title: Why the bad guys keep winning.

Posted: December 23.

Listed: upper right column of recent articles.

Three people who might particularly like this are big sky doc, Mick some number, and Oly Fan (do you really like Olympia beer?).

More generally, I gift you all this blog for economic and political stimulation.

Merry Christmas everyone.

I always appreciate being directed to further enlightenment. I typically don't trust any source unless I can personally vet it to my satisfaction. Deception is rampant and frighteningly available in this world. There is only one doctrine that I believe we should impose on others. That would be compassion and acts of kindness distributed equally for everyone of non violent nature. With it comes the responsibility of us collectively sharing small sacrifice to enable it. It is a good default mindset when evaluating agendas. Any other form of institutionally imposing upon others should be questioned to expose what the true agenda is. It is typically self serving. It is typically done so that a select few may profit at the expense of others.

 

[SeaTown81]

I used to be a FF basher too. My brother had to drag me into a league a few years ago. It is a game within the game, the real point of it is to pit your "moneyball" skills against others. There is a degree of talent evaluation that goes into it, having knowledge of players going back to their college days really helps, but for the most part it is a contest of who can identify statistical value the best.

Personally, I would strongly disagree with anyone who thinks it's bad for the game. Before FF, I only watched Seahawks games or games that were relevant to the Seahawks. Having a fantasy team with players from around the league has greatly increased the amount of enjoyment from watching other NFL teams, and because I am watching other teams, I learn things about the league and its players I would have never learned from just watching the Seahawks.

Watching Matt Forte produce in Chicago has informed me of what Christine Michael could be capable of in a similar offense, because both are stellar dumpoff receivers. Watching Emmanuel Sanders in Denver has given insight into the kind of player Paul Richardson could become. Watching games around the league has given me a much better grasp of who the good coaches are, too.

It has greatly enriched my football viewing experience. There is more to football than rooting for laundry, and fantasy football helps fans get in touch with the finer side of the game by watching games and learning things they wouldn't have been exposed to otherwise.

It has also been a huge boon to the popularity of the league, and gives fans of super crappy teams an escape from misery. It brings in new fans. Like all fans they need time to mature.

I love the fact that the NFL is so hyper popular right now. It has its downsides, but seeing the NFL's influence in America grow has been a treat, especially since the Seahawks are currently the NFL's best team. Fifteen years ago, the Hawks were the NFL's most 'socially awkward' team. Now they are the belle of the ball during a time when the NFL is reaching new heights of national prominence.

(Dammit, Kip. I don't know what it is about your ability to make me fight my desire to ignore this board and not put in my two cents. But you did it again. Here goes nothing.)

Fantasy football. Great for the NFL. Bad for football. You may disagree. But I'll give you my side of the debate.

Yes it's awesome that fantasy football brings in so many new fans. But the majority are becoming fans of stats and fans of their fantasy teams over an actual NFL team. They are fans of whoever is on their team for that given season. You might scoff at being "fans of laundry". But being fans of laundry lasts. That's one of the best things the NFL has done over the years. Make their audience fans of teams and not players. Teams last, players do not. The NBA has done the exact opposite. They market their star players over their teams. And guess what, the NBA has a much smaller hardcore "will go nowhere no matter what" fan base. Their success is almost entirely dependent on the stars of the time. The NFL created real sporting tribalism. It's been a huge reason for their sustained success. Fantasy football is threatening to turn that on it's head.

I've played fantasy football since around 1998 or so. Back then it was nothing like it is today. You didn't hear about it in the mainstream, and you sure as hell didn't hear about it from your girlfriend or grandma. I actually really miss those old days. Because it wasn't so ubiquitous, you actually had to be knowledgeable to do well in fantasy. You had to do research on your own if you wanted to get the next diamond in the rough player, or know if your players were hurt. Smart players searched out stats like fantasy points allowed by position and there was no spoon fed projected points when setting up your lineup. Basically back then, you had to be smart and know your stuff to do well. If you were in a league with a casual or novice fan, you were guaranteed to beat them. Now that's all changed. Fantasy is so everywhere overwhelming that it's now easy enough a cave man can do it. It's all laid out for the most casual fan. They're told by Yahoo what's the best lineup to put out. There's a million and one websites that will tell them who to pick up. And worst of all, the NFL is catering towards offense to such a slanted degree, that you can find fantasy worthy players everywhere and anywhere. It's stupid. It's a total crap shoot. It used to be that the guys who knew more about football would fare better than those who didn't. Now it's mostly entirely random and just a game of who has more injuries than the other. It's almost to the point of March Madness, where the company secretary wins by picking the teams whose mascots she likes the best.

That's all entirely off point to the debate at hand. I got a bit off track. But those are my thoughts as to why I don't enjoy it as much as I once did. And before I go on my diatribe of all the reasons I hate fantasy football. Let me point out the fact that I'm in a league with a bunch of friends where we have a trophy and loser trophy, and where we have our draft at a bar every year. It's a lot of fun in that respect. I continue to play for these reasons. If I only played in anonymous leagues, I'd have quit years ago. So yes, I enjoy it to a decent extent. But that doesn't mean I can see a lot of the bad that comes from it.

Fantasy football is the best thing that ever happened to the NFL and Roger Goodell. Period, end of story. This is not up for debate. But that is because the best things that can happen to them are directly tied to dollar signs. As I just alluded to, over the years fantasy football has gone from something as nerdy and niche as rotisserie baseball to this mega popular thing that everyone's wives and girlfriends also do, and that there's a sitcom about. And with something that mainstream that appeals to that broad an audience, that is the best thing ever to draw non-football and quite frankly non-sports fans to your product. Which is exactly what has happened for the NFL. Everyone here has at least one co-worker who couldn't tell you a thing about the x's and o's or even rudimentary basics of a football game. But they are fantasy freaks, knowing all about how many rushing yards Jeremy Hill is projected to get, and is asking you if he should play him over Arian Foster.

You might think it's good that this thing is drawing in fans. But to me it comes down to a question of, "What kind of fan do you really want?" The NFL is all about money. So it's not a question anyone beyond dorks like us care about at all. But to me it's worthwhile. Kip, you thumb your nose at "fans of laundry". But here's the thing. Fantasy football isn't creating these nuanced fans of the sport as you perceive it to. Just because someone as advanced and elevated as yourself is able to use fantasy football to help you ascend to a higher plane of football fan, that doesn't mean that's the effect it has on the masses. Not at all. You want to know what the effect it has? It's taking people from getting into the sport and having a team, and making them fans of fantasy more than the league itself. They don't care if team x wins. They care that there stupid fantasy team wins. The annoying guy in my office with Jeremy Hill on his team watches a Seahawks game with me and my friends and gets mad if a Seahawk player that is playing against his team scores points.

I have had Hawks season tickets since 1997. One of the most obnoxious things to happen over that time is having to hear people around me talk about how they want the Hawks to win, but hope Vernon Davis scores a TD. They want the Hawks to win. But because they have Marshawn Lynch on their team, they get mad when Russell runs it in or throws for a td from the 5. "Just give it to the Beast, dammit!" This after the Seattle Seahawks just scored a TD. I remember being at a game where Marshawn Lynch went absolutely off, and this dude right next to me decked out in Hawks gear, as everyone in the stands is high-fiving each other, is steaming mad. I say to him, "What's wrong, man? We just scored!" His reply, "I'm playing vs Lynch in fantasy." I wanted to punch the guy right then and there. No, check that. I wanted to slap him in the face. Because punching him would be too manly of a thing to do for such a bitch.

Seriously, this is what I hate the most about fantasy football. I myself have a steadfast "Hawks before fantasy" rule. For myself, and most real fans (yes, there is such a thing as real fans when fantasy fans are in the conversation), this isn't a question. I hate my fantasy team creeping into my mind when watching the Hawks so much, that I generally avoid getting Hawks on my team. And if a player on my team is playing us, he's benched. End of story. I don't care that I might lose points. My Seahawks gameday experience will not be affected. I am going to root for Eddie Lacy to get stuffed on every single play. There is no, "I want the Hawks to win, but hope my guy gets his." I remember back in the day benching Daunte Culpepper and Randy Moss for that very reason. Only to have the two of them combine for 6 tds and 500 yards. And I'd do it all over again if given the choice.

I actually took a couple years off from fantasy, back 7 or so years ago. I can't tell you how freeing it was as a football fan. I could watch games and root 100% against the teams I hated, without the caveat of "But I hope my rb scores a couple td's." It was pure football. It was really nice. But I eventually got sucked back in. There's more than a few times a year where I miss it.

When I invite casual friends to Hawks games who haven't been with me before, I always tell them before the game starts. I don't care about your fantasy team. The Seahawks come first. These are the terms of agreement of sitting in my seats. I have this one guy, friend of a friend, who sits me me. Never shuts up about his stupid fantasy team. "Oh I benched so and so, when I could've played this other guy." "If whats his name gets me 1 more score, I'll be up." This guy drives mad.

You've all been there before. You start talking fantasy with someone, and they begin to go off about all of the running backs they have. About how they picked up so and so last week. They tell you about how they lost last week because the guy they played forgot to set his lineup and blah, blah, blah, blah. It's white noise. They might as well be telling you about the dream they had last night. If you are not playing in the same league as them, they exist in an alternate universe that you don't give a crap about.

FANTASY FOOTBALL IS LIKE PEOPLE'S KIDS. NOBODY CARES ABOUT ANYONE ELSE'S BUT THEIR OWN!

And that gets me to my main point. Fantasy football is conditioning fans to value and root for stats as much, if not more so than points. And a crap lot more than wins. It's not good enough if a qb has a solid game, doesn't throw any picks and wins. No, he's got to put up giant numbers so Joe Lunchbox gets all them fantasy points. Sportscenter while showing game highlights, flashes how many fantasy points a guy got. Andrew Luck is great because he throws for 400 yards and 3 tds. Forget that he threw 3 picks. Average under 300 yards, and you go in the "Sit" column. You do not get points if your qb wins. Fantasy football teaches novice fans to be more excited about a mediocre qb on a team that is always losing and forced to throw the ball more than they are a superior qb on a team that is allowed to play within the game.

Fantasy football teaches dumb fans to be dumb and think little. I don't care if you have found a superior way to apply the altered viewpoint. But for the most part, fantasy football is much more The Big Bang Theory than it is The Wire. How does anything in today's culture gain mass audience? By appealing to the lowest common denominator. And the lowest common denominator of football fans are fantasy football fans. They are the same people who rather watch Duck Dynasty than a World War II documentary. I'm not saying that there isn't a place for those people. But when those people become the majority, and us actual fans of the sport become the minority, that is when you start to worry about the future.

I won't go crazy in depth about how I feel that the NFL is altering the game so as to appeal more to these fantasy players (More points, more stats = more exciting for the person with TY Hilton on their team). Richard Sherman did a good job at that a few months ago. Yes, the rule changes benefiting offense started with the league looking to make the sport less physical, so they can avoid concussion lawsuits. But the residual benefit has been a proliferation of offense, stats, and more excitement for Jenny Fantasy who doesn't care what teams win, just that she wins her game. And the NFL knows this. They see the dollar signs coming from it. And they're not going to stop catering towards this audience.

Congrats Kip. You have a great way of looking at fantasy football. It's cool that you can use it to become a more enlightened NFL and Seahawks fan. That's awesome. But the majority are not doing this. Not even in the slightest.

That said, I'll be drafting with my friends at a bar next fall.

Go Hawks.

 

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I understand being annoyed with how much media coverage he gets, but people on here WAY overstate Andrew Luck's turnover "problems". He has a 2.7 INT %, which isn't amazing, but it's hardly terrible either. It's identical to Peyton Manning's and better than Philip Rivers'. Any QB who had the Colts pathetic running game would be forced to throw the ball a lot more, which is going to lead to more INTs.

I too disagree with those who think Luck is better than Wilson, but saying that Luck isn't a great QB is just as ridiculous (if not moreso). Both teams are extremely fortunate to have the guy they have.