Pete Carroll is the NFC's best coach.

[semiahmoo]

Going forward he is the 3rd best coach in the division. McVay & Shanny are better than him not in terms of body of work, just strictly in terms of going forward. Pete has more talent and does less with it.

The Niners are more banged up than the Hawks with less talent to boot, and look at what he is doing with Jimmy G. McVay took the 32nd ranked offense in the NFL in 2016, and turned it into one of the NFL's best.

This is a now and going forward ranking. Not a body of work ranking.

01 Mike Zimmer
02 Sean McVay --Rising fast.
03 Sean Payton
04 Kyle Shanahan --Rising fast.
05 Dan Quinn
06 Pete Carroll
07 Mike McCarthy
08 Doug Pederson -- Will shoot up the list if he wins an Owl with Foles. He reminds me of McCarthy though.
09 Bruce Arians
10 Jay Gruden
11 Ron Rivera
12 John Fox
13 Jim Caldwell
14 Dirk Koetter
15 Jason Garrett
16 Steve Spagnuolo

This is a fluid ranking. I had Pete Carroll #1 two years ago with Mike Zimmer nipping at his heels, and Sean Payton a distant 3rd at the time, but Pete has been slipping a lit bit every year since.

The reason I have dropped him down in the rankings is fairly obvious, and has to do with the offensive side of the ball. That needs to be fixed or he will continue to drop. It also doesn't help that the team seems more undisciplined than it ever has been under Carroll. Big changes need to come in the off-season, and I am looking forward to it.

Great post. Some will say you can only use the entirety of his career or the last several seasons to evaluate where he currently ranks which is of course idiotic. Your approach is undeniably the right one.

Pete is no longer at the top in coaching in the league/NFC. We are dealing with IS and going forward - not WAS. From that perspective, Pete has been steadily slipping. He hasn't adjusted and other coaches are now his superior.

You have him at #6. I have no arguement with that. Nice work.

 

[Uncle Si]

3rd string QB who is playing much better than the 1st rounder Bradford they had last year? Is that coaching or a bit of luck?

Both.

Give Spielman and Zimmer credit, they went out and got Keenum, AND coached him up to the point where he's playing great, better than he ever has.

That's not luck, that's good coaching and foresight on the part of Spielman to go get another quality QB that fit into their system and schemes.

Meanwhile we're in Russell's prime and in a system he's been in for seven years with the same coordinators and most of the same personnel, and our coaching staff, GM and coordinators still can't figure out how to make this offense productive on a consistent basis.

Not exactly #1 coach material. Thus my point. If this is some big body of work #1 ranking? Good for Pete, but IMO he's had his worst year of coaching yet, with some terrible front office and personnel moves.

But they failed with Bradford, and Teddy wasn't looking the part.

Im not trying to underscore what is happening in MN. But you're moving the goalposts to make a point, focusing on one season of success while ignoring the others. Since we are talking about MN, let's remember how long it took their offense to "click" after AP left.

Change is hard, and we both agree this team needs one. But let's not discount PC's accomplishments over the course of his time here.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

But they failed with Bradford, and Teddy wasn't looking the part.

Im not trying to underscore what is happening in MN. But you're moving the goalposts to make a point, focusing on one season of success while ignoring the others. Since we are talking about MN, let's remember how long it took their offense to "click" after AP left.

Change is hard, and we both agree this team needs one. But let's not discount PC's accomplishments over the course of his time here.

They failed for one year, and now they're succeeding with a 3rd string QB.

What's our excuse for continuing to fail on offense with a supposed top 5 QB in the same system and coaches for his entire career?

I love Pete, I love what he's accomplished here. But sorry I'm in no mood to hand him a #1 lifetime achievement trophy this year when I personally think he's done a terrible job in 2017.

 

[jeremiah]

Just for the fact that PC who predicates success with a strong running game and stiff defense, spends no money for an O line, drafts or trades for a superior RB. Seattle has been falling fast for 3 years now, and unless something is done, will be lucky to win 7 games next year with these same players.

 

[Seymour]

But they failed with Bradford, and Teddy wasn't looking the part.

Im not trying to underscore what is happening in MN. But you're moving the goalposts to make a point, focusing on one season of success while ignoring the others. Since we are talking about MN, let's remember how long it took their offense to "click" after AP left.

Change is hard, and we both agree this team needs one. But let's not discount PC's accomplishments over the course of his time here.

They failed for one year, and now they're succeeding with a 3rd string QB.

What's our excuse for continuing to fail on offense with a supposed top 5 QB in the same system and coaches for his entire career?

I love Pete, I love what he's accomplished here. But sorry I'm in no mood to hand him a #1 lifetime achievement trophy this year when I personally think he's done a terrible job in 2017.

I agree.
I think he was in the top 3 in NFL until 2016. At that point his misses on oline and other high draft choices began to catch up. That and failing to adjust to the changing roster and play to our strength has gotten him passed by IMO.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The most alarming thing for me the past two years is if there's been one thing about Pete and his teams it's that they've gotten stronger as the year goes along. Russell's been sharper and played better, the O-Line used to gel and play better, the run game hitting it's stride, etc etc.

I can't remember the offense looking this terrible this late in the year, for two straight games now, and the run game is as bad as it's ever been, WITH the best line we've been able to cobble together in the past two years.

That should scare the hell out of fans.

 

[adeltaY]

Fidelis, you don't have Belichick in your top 15?

Also, injuries play a huge role in this. Minny will have their same starting 11 on defense that they had in week 1 heading into the playoffs. Last year their OL was a disaster, which is why Bradford looked so bad. They also had more injuries. Imagine Minny with Hawks level injuries. No Rhodes, Danielle Hunter, Sendejo, Smith missed a couple games, kendricks plays hurt, Barr misses one with a concussion, etc. I'm sure their season wouldn't look the same.

 

[Uncle Si]

But they failed with Bradford, and Teddy wasn't looking the part.

Im not trying to underscore what is happening in MN. But you're moving the goalposts to make a point, focusing on one season of success while ignoring the others. Since we are talking about MN, let's remember how long it took their offense to "click" after AP left.

Change is hard, and we both agree this team needs one. But let's not discount PC's accomplishments over the course of his time here.

They failed for one year, and now they're succeeding with a 3rd string QB.

What's our excuse for continuing to fail on offense with a supposed top 5 QB in the same system and coaches for his entire career?

I love Pete, I love what he's accomplished here. But sorry I'm in no mood to hand him a #1 lifetime achievement trophy this year when I personally think he's done a terrible job in 2017.

had a 10 win season the year before with Teddy... this team is on the same pace

and supposed? I'm sure you've seen RWs stats this year.

PC deserves better than you're giving him. I understand its typical to live in the now, but man.. "terrible?"..

Whatever

 

[Uncle Si]

The most alarming thing for me the past two years is if there's been one thing about Pete and his teams it's that they've gotten stronger as the year goes along. Russell's been sharper and played better, the O-Line used to gel and play better, the run game hitting it's stride, etc etc.

I can't remember the offense looking this terrible this late in the year, for two straight games now, and the run game is as bad as it's ever been, WITH the best line we've been able to cobble together in the past two years.

That should scare the hell out of fans.

You mean the 10 win season in 2015? or maybe the 10 win season in 2016?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

But they failed with Bradford, and Teddy wasn't looking the part.

Im not trying to underscore what is happening in MN. But you're moving the goalposts to make a point, focusing on one season of success while ignoring the others. Since we are talking about MN, let's remember how long it took their offense to "click" after AP left.

Change is hard, and we both agree this team needs one. But let's not discount PC's accomplishments over the course of his time here.

They failed for one year, and now they're succeeding with a 3rd string QB.

What's our excuse for continuing to fail on offense with a supposed top 5 QB in the same system and coaches for his entire career?

I love Pete, I love what he's accomplished here. But sorry I'm in no mood to hand him a #1 lifetime achievement trophy this year when I personally think he's done a terrible job in 2017.

had a 10 win season the year before with Teddy... this team is on the same pace

and supposed? I'm sure you've seen RWs stats this year.

PC deserves better than you're giving him. I understand its typical to live in the now, but man.. "terrible?"..

Whatever

You should never want your QB to be responsible for 98% of your offensive TD's. That's not commendable, that's terribly balanced football.........especially for a coach who's entire scheme and philosophy is based around running the football.

So good job Pete for being so desperate on offense that you're relying on your QB to rely on broken plays and him scrambling for his life 80% of the time? What kind of offense is that?

Nope.

 

[Uncle Si]

But they failed with Bradford, and Teddy wasn't looking the part.

Im not trying to underscore what is happening in MN. But you're moving the goalposts to make a point, focusing on one season of success while ignoring the others. Since we are talking about MN, let's remember how long it took their offense to "click" after AP left.

Change is hard, and we both agree this team needs one. But let's not discount PC's accomplishments over the course of his time here.

They failed for one year, and now they're succeeding with a 3rd string QB.

What's our excuse for continuing to fail on offense with a supposed top 5 QB in the same system and coaches for his entire career?

I love Pete, I love what he's accomplished here. But sorry I'm in no mood to hand him a #1 lifetime achievement trophy this year when I personally think he's done a terrible job in 2017.

had a 10 win season the year before with Teddy... this team is on the same pace

and supposed? I'm sure you've seen RWs stats this year.

PC deserves better than you're giving him. I understand its typical to live in the now, but man.. "terrible?"..

Whatever

You should never want your QB to be responsible for 98% of your offensive TD's. That's not commendable, that's terribly balanced football.........especially for a coach who's entire scheme and philosophy is based around running the football.

So good job Pete for being so desperate on offense that you're relying on your QB to rely on broken plays and him scrambling for his life 80% of the time? What kind of offense is that?

Nope.

and yet here the team is, on the cusp of its 3rd consecutive 10 win season.

again, the criticism is sound, the outcome is flawed.

 

[pittpnthrs]

A certain pattern has followed Pete throughout his career and seems to be holding true currently also. Pete succeeds when he has elite talent that hides his coaching deficiencies but falls off when that doesnt happen. Pete did well building this team with talent he was familiar with in the college ranks along with the help of Scot Mccloughan and he also got lucky that some players panned out as well as they did like Wilson and Sherman and Lynch coming from Buffalo. Pete had a philosophy and got the pieces that fit. Its when the pieces dont fit and the talent level drops that Carroll struggles, but isnt that what coaching is? Instead of adapting to players strengths, Pete tries to have the players adapt to his philosophy and thats when things start to go south. It happened at USC and its happening here. Fans can blame the injuries all they want (and they most assuredly will), but the downward trend has been happening the last 3 seasons now and will continue as long as Pete is here. Its becoming more and more common for Pete to be outcoached and I dont feel he can change that. He's stubborn and set in his ways and seems unwilling or unable to change. Just look at how pathetic our offense is this season. Theres no excuse for that with a QB of Wilsons talent. In my opinion, the writings on the wall. Thanks for the memories Pete, but its probably time to move on at this point.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

and yet here the team is, on the cusp of its 3rd consecutive 10 win season.

again, the criticism is sound, the outcome is flawed.

And if we make the playoffs and Pete rallies his team to make a playoff run? I will be the first one to come back and here and apologize for my criticism.

But if we miss the playoffs? Then my criticism is correct, Pete failed in 2017 to take a VERY talented and deep team into the playoffs.

This isn't high school football Si, there are no moral victories..........and Pete would be the first one to tell you that.

 

[Uncle Si]

Lucky when Pete does it..

just better coaching when others do it.

BB went 9 years between Super Bowl wins, including two 10-6 seasons and a 9-7 season.

Patriots should have fired him

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Lucky when Pete does it..

just better coaching when others do it.

BB went 9 years between Super Bowl wins, including two 10-6 seasons and a 9-7 season.

Patriots should have fired him

Who said we should fire Pete?

Now who's moving the goalposts to make his point? I'm just not down for handing him any awards this year when I think he hasn't done a good job.

 

[NJlargent]

10 wins is not much of an accomplishment considering that our division has stunk since the 49ers went south. We should win 5 minimally given the division (rams now excluded).

A great coach would get this train back on track next year and a Super Bowl contender again. An overrrated one would continue the regression. Let’s revisit this at the end of next season to see how we did compared to the Rams and 49ers.

 

[Uncle Si]

Lucky when Pete does it..

just better coaching when others do it.

BB went 9 years between Super Bowl wins, including two 10-6 seasons and a 9-7 season.

Patriots should have fired him

Who said we should fire Pete?

Now who's moving the goalposts to make his point? I'm just not down for handing him any awards this year when I think he hasn't done a good job.

Did you read the post I was responding to?

 

[Uncle Si]

10 wins is not much of an accomplishment considering that our division has stunk since the 49ers went south. We should win 5 minimally given the division (rams now excluded).

A great coach would get this train back on track next year and a Super Bowl contender again. An overrrated one would continue the regression. Let’s revisit this at the end of next season to see how we did compared to the Rams and 49ers.

I agree with this. if the coach hasnt realized the deficiencies in the team and doesn't make changes, then its time to move on, as 10 wins isn't what this team should be aiming for

 

[Uncle Si]

and yet here the team is, on the cusp of its 3rd consecutive 10 win season.

again, the criticism is sound, the outcome is flawed.

And if we make the playoffs and Pete rallies his team to make a playoff run? I will be the first one to come back and here and apologize for my criticism.

But if we miss the playoffs? Then my criticism is correct, Pete failed in 2017 to take a VERY talented and deep team into the playoffs.

This isn't high school football Si, there are no moral victories..........and Pete would be the first one to tell you that.

Who said anything about moral victories? he's nearing 10 wins, same as the two years before. The roster isn't as talented as you make it out to be (who is the RB, for example?). Certainly deserves criticism, but not scorn.

It's not been a great year. Certainly not his best, maybe even his worst. But overall, he's been one of the best coaches in the NFL the last 6 years. Deserves that credit. Suggesting this is about moral victories (or participation trophies or whatever you're saying) misses the point of the OP

 

[bevellisthedevil]

Pete is the best players coach in the NFL period. He is not the best X's and O's coach by a long shot. He is terrible at challenges and clock management.