Pete is destroying Russell Wilson career

[John63]

The Seahawks have devolved into a redundant predictable team.

PC blew a SB with horrible game-time decision making. Then, he blew a NFC West championship by not even realizing there is a game clock. Really?

If that weren't enough, you just watched 2019 Dallas playoff game 2.0. You people can't see that?

The Seahawks are: Ground Hog Day, (all over again, lol)

:stirthepot:

Throwing the ball 70% of the time, essentially from the outset, is the Dallas game 2.0?

Tical, I know you're smarter than this. You know damn well we are way more predictable on offense for opposing defenses to read and react to in the first halves of games than the second halves.

don't forge the fact TIcal lied with his 70% number

 

[RolandDeschain]

Throwing it 70% of the time isnt too conservative.

For simpletons. Just because you're passing doesn't mean you're aggressive. We could run 80% of the time in the first half and be way more AGGRESSIVE than we are right now. Every f'ing defense in the league knows that 95% of of our run plays in the first half are between the tackles; and how often do we legitimately DISGUISE runs in the first half?

 

[getnasty]

The Seahawks have devolved into a redundant predictable team.

PC blew a SB with horrible game-time decision making. Then, he blew a NFC West championship by not even realizing there is a game clock. Really?

If that weren't enough, you just watched 2019 Dallas playoff game 2.0. You people can't see that?

The Seahawks are: Ground Hog Day, (all over again, lol)

:stirthepot:

Throwing the ball 70% of the time, essentially from the outset, is the Dallas game 2.0?

ahh so I showed you were lying about the 70% over all so now you want not try this specific game let sse if you are right


First half
runs 9
Pass 11
totla 21

% pass 52% hmm lying again

No your lying there were 7 designed runs in the first half and 17 designed pass plays. Russell Wilson scrambled twice in the first half and you counting those as runs. When Russell gets sack or scrambles that's still a pass play even if he doesn't throw the ball. Get your facts straight.

 

[Hawkpower]

Throwing it 70% of the time isnt too conservative.

For simpletons. Just because you're passing doesn't mean you're aggressive. We could run 80% of the time in the first half and be way more AGGRESSIVE than we are right now. Every f'ing defense in the league knows that 95% of of our run plays in the first half are between the tackles; and how often do we legitimately DISGUISE runs in the first half?

There's probably a decent argument somewhere in what you are saying, but it is a different one than your peers are having.

Additionally, if that's the argument you are making, (rather than just strictly run/pass ratio) the 2nd half was no better than the first. Russ just starting running a lot more. And we cut down on some mental errors. Hence more points.

So if your argument is that Pete and company dont ever call creative plays, fine. I disagree, but fine.

But thats not the PETE HANDCUFFS HIS QB IN THE FIRST HALF AND THEN LETS LOOSE IN THE 2ND HALF!!!! argument that is being tossed around here

 

[John63]

The Seahawks have devolved into a redundant predictable team.

PC blew a SB with horrible game-time decision making. Then, he blew a NFC West championship by not even realizing there is a game clock. Really?

If that weren't enough, you just watched 2019 Dallas playoff game 2.0. You people can't see that?

The Seahawks are: Ground Hog Day, (all over again, lol)

:stirthepot:

Throwing the ball 70% of the time, essentially from the outset, is the Dallas game 2.0?

ahh so I showed you were lying about the 70% over all so now you want not try this specific game let sse if you are right


First half
runs 9
Pass 11
total 21

% pass 52% hmm lying again

No your lying there were 7 designed runs in the first half and 17 designed pass plays. Russell Wilson scrambled twice in the first half and you counting those as runs. When Russell gets sack or scrambles that's still a pass play even if he doesn't throw the ball. Get your facts straight.

he said "Throwing the ball 70% of the time" not meaning to throw, or called throw but actually throwing. nice try though we actually threw the ball 11 times so sorry I did not lie.

 

[getnasty]

Your making it sound like we were running a ground and pound game plan in the first half. That wasn't the case at all.

 

[John63]

Throwing it 70% of the time isnt too conservative.

For simpletons. Just because you're passing doesn't mean you're aggressive. We could run 80% of the time in the first half and be way more AGGRESSIVE than we are right now. Every f'ing defense in the league knows that 95% of of our run plays in the first half are between the tackles; and how often do we legitimately DISGUISE runs in the first half?

There's probably a decent argument somewhere in what you are saying, but it is a different one than your peers are having.

Additionally, if that's the argument you are making, (rather than just strictly run/pass ratio) the 2nd half was no better than the first. Russ just starting running a lot more. And we cut down on some mental errors. Hence more points.

So if your argument is that Pete and company dont ever call creative plays, fine. I disagree, but fine.

But thats not the PETE HANDCUFFS HIS QB IN THE FIRST HALF AND THEN LETS LOOSE IN THE 2ND HALF!!!! argument that is being tossed around here

that would be incorrect, the tempo changed, the types of routes changed a lot changed.

 

[OrangeGravy]

It hasn't. Not one person has come out and given detailed answers on what specific plays and out of what formations those plays should be run and against what defensive looks we should be running those plays. You can't just say be more aggressive or less conservative. You can't just say stop holding Russell back or let Russell loose. If you're gonna say those things bring some "FOOTBALL" detail along with them or stop pretending to know what you're talking about. There isn't anyone on this forum that doesn't want them to score more points in the 1st half of games. Unless you can have that level of knowledge, STFU about it already.

Yes we have but if it helps I will do it AGAIN

What we are talking about it running an uptempo(meaning changing tempos), quick passing attack with layered routes. Look at the 2nd half of the last game, during the first series alone, we snapped the ball with 10 seconds to go, then with 3 then as soon as we got to the line, Nearly every pass play had an outlet, a guy short, a guy intermediate, and a guy long. As opposed to what we normally see snapping with 3 or less left, lots of everyone going long, heck the announcers said it during the game.

PC has said he uses the first half to test the Defense. Well why, if you have done your film review and made a game plan around what the defense cant do or give sup there should be no testing. Yet just in the last game alone we ran or tried to run right up the gut how many times? to the tune of basically nothing, You want test the defense fine but don't take a whole half to do it. I can go on but you get what I am saying.

Snapping the ball faster is not detail. Give me just one play suggestion. Just one. Layered routes is not it. You're just repeating something you read someone else say. Give me one example of a bad play we ran, tell me why it was bad, and tell what alternative play we should have run against the look the defense was giving us.

Actually no I am repeating what I have been saying since i have been on this board and sorry to tell you this is specific.

I gave you an example " Yet just in the last game alone we ran or tried to run right up the gut how many times? to the tune of basically nothing," you shoudl try reading the whole post.

That's not an answer to my question

 

[John63]

Yes we have but if it helps I will do it AGAIN

What we are talking about it running an uptempo(meaning changing tempos), quick passing attack with layered routes. Look at the 2nd half of the last game, during the first series alone, we snapped the ball with 10 seconds to go, then with 3 then as soon as we got to the line, Nearly every pass play had an outlet, a guy short, a guy intermediate, and a guy long. As opposed to what we normally see snapping with 3 or less left, lots of everyone going long, heck the announcers said it during the game.

PC has said he uses the first half to test the Defense. Well why, if you have done your film review and made a game plan around what the defense cant do or give sup there should be no testing. Yet just in the last game alone we ran or tried to run right up the gut how many times? to the tune of basically nothing, You want test the defense fine but don't take a whole half to do it. I can go on but you get what I am saying.

Snapping the ball faster is not detail. Give me just one play suggestion. Just one. Layered routes is not it. You're just repeating something you read someone else say. Give me one example of a bad play we ran, tell me why it was bad, and tell what alternative play we should have run against the look the defense was giving us.

Actually no I am repeating what I have been saying since i have been on this board and sorry to tell you this is specific.

I gave you an example " Yet just in the last game alone we ran or tried to run right up the gut how many times? to the tune of basically nothing," you shoudl try reading the whole post.

That's not an answer to my question

You asked for a play that was run that was bad I pointed it out. If you don't know why it is was bad when we avg under 2 yards a carry doing it then that's your problem or you did not watch the game. What could that have done instead oh I dont know how about the flip option, how about anything outside of the tackles, how about the read option pass, I can go on if you would like. Oh and by the way most of those I mentioned are plays that have run with success in the 2nd half of games.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Snapping the ball faster is not detail. Give me just one play suggestion. Just one. Layered routes is not it. You're just repeating something you read someone else say. Give me one example of a bad play we ran, tell me why it was bad, and tell what alternative play we should have run against the look the defense was giving us.

Actually no I am repeating what I have been saying since i have been on this board and sorry to tell you this is specific.

I gave you an example " Yet just in the last game alone we ran or tried to run right up the gut how many times? to the tune of basically nothing," you shoudl try reading the whole post.

That's not an answer to my question

You asked for a play that was run that was bad I pointed it out. If you don't know why it is was bad when we avg under 2 yards a carry doing it then that's your problem or you did not watch the game. What could that have done instead oh I dont know how about the flip option, how about anything outside of the tackles, how about the read option pass, I can go on if you would like. Oh and by the way most of those I mentioned are plays that have run with success in the 2nd half of games.

A specific play and why it was the wrong play. A run up the middle that went for 1 yard is not an answer to my question. Pick any play and tell me why it didn't work and what would have been a better play against the defense that was run on that play. Pick any of the random run plays you're referenced and tell me what the down/distance was, what the defense was presenting, and why the play didn't work and then give your solution.

 

[John63]

Actually no I am repeating what I have been saying since i have been on this board and sorry to tell you this is specific.

I gave you an example " Yet just in the last game alone we ran or tried to run right up the gut how many times? to the tune of basically nothing," you shoudl try reading the whole post.

That's not an answer to my question

You asked for a play that was run that was bad I pointed it out. If you don't know why it is was bad when we avg under 2 yards a carry doing it then that's your problem or you did not watch the game. What could that have done instead oh I dont know how about the flip option, how about anything outside of the tackles, how about the read option pass, I can go on if you would like. Oh and by the way most of those I mentioned are plays that have run with success in the 2nd half of games.

A specific play and why it was the wrong play. A run up the middle that went for 1 yard is not an answer to my question. Pick any play and tell me why it didn't work and what would have been a better play against the defense that was run on that play. Pick any of the random run plays you're referenced and tell me what the down/distance was, what the defense was presenting, and why the play didn't work and then give your solution.

Okay your being dense but I will try it one more time they ran up the middle "Also called dive, plunge, buck, guts, slam or numerous other names. The most basic run play is a run up the middle. In this case, the ball is handed off from the quarterback to a running back. The back then aims for a predetermined hole between his offensive linemen. This hole can be either between center and guard or between guard and tackle. The offensive line will run block, pushing defenders away from the chosen hole. Often, the fullback will lead block through the hole first to clear a path for the half back or running back."

You can pick what you want. They did it 3 times, and we punted, we did not get anywhere. In place of that a sweep, a RO pass, would have been a better option as the defense was expecting the run up the middle.

 

[OrangeGravy]

That's not an answer to my question

You asked for a play that was run that was bad I pointed it out. If you don't know why it is was bad when we avg under 2 yards a carry doing it then that's your problem or you did not watch the game. What could that have done instead oh I dont know how about the flip option, how about anything outside of the tackles, how about the read option pass, I can go on if you would like. Oh and by the way most of those I mentioned are plays that have run with success in the 2nd half of games.

A specific play and why it was the wrong play. A run up the middle that went for 1 yard is not an answer to my question. Pick any play and tell me why it didn't work and what would have been a better play against the defense that was run on that play. Pick any of the random run plays you're referenced and tell me what the down/distance was, what the defense was presenting, and why the play didn't work and then give your solution.

Okay your being dense but I will try it one more time they ran up the middle "Also called dive, plunge, buck, guts, slam or numerous other names. The most basic run play is a run up the middle. In this case, the ball is handed off from the quarterback to a running back. The back then aims for a predetermined hole between his offensive linemen. This hole can be either between center and guard or between guard and tackle. The offensive line will run block, pushing defenders away from the chosen hole. Often, the fullback will lead block through the hole first to clear a path for the half back or running back."

You can pick what you want. They did it 3 times, and we punted, we did not get anywhere. In place of that a sweep, a RO pass, would have been a better option as the defense was expecting the run up the middle.

Try again

 

[John63]

You asked for a play that was run that was bad I pointed it out. If you don't know why it is was bad when we avg under 2 yards a carry doing it then that's your problem or you did not watch the game. What could that have done instead oh I dont know how about the flip option, how about anything outside of the tackles, how about the read option pass, I can go on if you would like. Oh and by the way most of those I mentioned are plays that have run with success in the 2nd half of games.

A specific play and why it was the wrong play. A run up the middle that went for 1 yard is not an answer to my question. Pick any play and tell me why it didn't work and what would have been a better play against the defense that was run on that play. Pick any of the random run plays you're referenced and tell me what the down/distance was, what the defense was presenting, and why the play didn't work and then give your solution.

Okay your being dense but I will try it one more time they ran up the middle "Also called dive, plunge, buck, guts, slam or numerous other names. The most basic run play is a run up the middle. In this case, the ball is handed off from the quarterback to a running back. The back then aims for a predetermined hole between his offensive linemen. This hole can be either between center and guard or between guard and tackle. The offensive line will run block, pushing defenders away from the chosen hole. Often, the fullback will lead block through the hole first to clear a path for the half back or running back."

You can pick what you want. They did it 3 times, and we punted, we did not get anywhere. In place of that a sweep, a RO pass, would have been a better option as the defense was expecting the run up the middle.

Try again

Nope I am good, made my point. Good bye

 

[SoulfishHawk]

:snack:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Damn, you guys were busy last night.

So I'm still confused that the large majority of post loss frustration and criticism here and on Twitter is focused on how Pete uses Russell, and Pete's offensive philosophies don't work.

- Russell's in the top 5 in just about every QB category, and top 2 in TD's, explosive plays, etc.
- Offense was ranked #5
- Passing offense was ranked #3

So again why is everyone all over Pete with Russell? This forum and Twitter should be on fire with how bad our defense was this year (statistically the worst of any Pete Carroll season).

I'm all ears if people want to hold Pete's feet to the fire over the defense, and John for that matter. They're the ones who haven't successfully rebuilt the defense into a top 10 defense in order for us to really compete for another SB.

But wasting Russell, misusing Russell, or lol "destroying" Russell? Nah, not hearing that nonsense.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Faster starts in the 1st half are a real issue that can't just be ignored. Folding your arms and saying "this is what we do" and not adjusting is going to cost them more games in the future. Just because the formula works MOST of the time (mainly with Russ saving the day and/or overcoming crap 1st half predictable play calling) doesn't mean that it's no big deal. The D was brutal most of the time this season, yet they still went 11-5 and won a playoff game.
They look out place and confused on defense all the time imo.

 

[John63]

Faster starts in the 1st half are a real issue that can't just be ignored. Folding your arms and saying "this is what we do" and not adjusting is going to cost them more games in the future. Just because the formula works MOST of the time (mainly with Russ saving the day and/or overcoming crap 1st half predictable play calling) doesn't mean that it's no big deal. The D was brutal most of the time this season, yet they still went 11-5 and won a playoff game.
They look out place and confused on defense all the time imo.

So basically the system works 90% of the time so why change it. Hmm I don't know maybe to see if we can go for 95% of the time., The other question are we succeeding because of this system or despite it.? Also as it relates to the system since the end goal is the SB you could argue it has not worked since 2014. All mots of us are saying and a lot of experts is change one thing, stop wasting a half of football, stat using the uptempo/change tempo system from the beginning.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I think this Horse has been beaten enough. We all would like better starts in the 1st half.
Go Hawks

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Faster starts in the 1st half are a real issue that can't just be ignored. Folding your arms and saying "this is what we do" and not adjusting is going to cost them more games in the future. Just because the formula works MOST of the time (mainly with Russ saving the day and/or overcoming crap 1st half predictable play calling) doesn't mean that it's no big deal. The D was brutal most of the time this season, yet they still went 11-5 and won a playoff game.
They look out place and confused on defense all the time imo.

So basically the system works 90% of the time so why change it. Hmm I don't know maybe to see if we can go for 95% of the time., The other question are we succeeding because of this system or despite it.? Also as it relates to the system since the end goal is the SB you could argue it has not worked since 2014. All mots of us are saying and a lot of experts is change one thing, stop wasting a half of football, stat using the uptempo/change tempo system from the beginning.

So I dig some digging into stats John so we can really see what this particular criticism looks like. Here are the splits for 2019 for the offense;

First Quarter:
Yards: 864
TD: 6

Second Quarter:
Yards: 1173
TD: 10

Third Quarter:
Yards: 735
TD: 7

Fourth Quarter:
Yards: 1171
TD: 7

So if you're keeping score at home that's 2,037 yards and 16 TD's in the first half of games this year, and 1,926 yards and 14 TD's in 2nd half of games.

There you have it, we not only have more yards in the first half, but more TD's. So while the fall behind too far narrative is certainly true for the Divisional round road games specifically................the narrative that we start too slow, and that's some sort of indictment on how Pete runs his offense is just not true. At least not anymore.

I await your non stats based knee jerk reaction based in feelings.

 

[Largent80]

Yeah, being in the running for MVP is definitely ruining him.