PFF Offensive Lineman grades

[EverydayImRusselin]

Not that I disagree much with the premise of the OP, I just wanted to point out that PFF sucks for grading. I won't rehash it but suffice to say there are hundreds of articles available via google.

The critiques about PFF basically amount to two things:

1) In order to create an advanced statistic you have to use formulas to assign values to things. This is a catch-all critique of any type of algorithmic deduction. If someone took that the time to show that PFF's formulas are objectively poorly weighting I'd be all for that, but just complaining about it is toothless as it's a complaint about the existence algorithmic deduction, not PFF.

2) There is subjective classification (i.e. "noise") in PFF's "objective" system.. Well, yeah, duh, this is also true practically the entire rest of the statistical world, be it in survey design, coding schema, response error, etc. People seem to believe that this is a death sentence for PFF rather than being a general observation about enumerating real world events. Also worth noting that the vast, vast majority of critiques of PFF comes from fans who don't like how their own players are scored (read: if "objectivity" is a problem with PFF we've really amassed the least objective accusers in the world to lobby the complaint).

All in all, PFF obviously isn't perfect and obviously could be better (that's true of all things), but I find the critiques of it to be really toothless.

For the critique not to be toothless it would have to successfully address the following two questions, IMO: 1) Is there something better we should be using, and if so, what is it?; 2) Do its flaws make it entirely useless or even damaging? I think that's an incredibly hard argument to make with a straight face (e.g. anyone want to stand up and argue PFF is wrong and the Seahawks Oline is actually really good?).


ASIDE #1: When critiquing PFF nobody really seems to mention that every team in the NFL uses a similar per-play +/-X grading scheme as part of their postmortem for each game. This is what coaches are talking about when they talk about guys "grading out well" during in-week press conferences. It's not like PFF is doing some zany thing off in the wild; they're doing essentially what every team in the NFL does also.

ASIDE #2: No surprise that the critiques of PFF are basically the same as the critiques of ESPN's QBR algorithm, as they're really just critiques of algorithms rather than specific critiques of those algorithms. QBR obviously has its problems too, but nobody ever mentions what it's good at: it's better at predicting winning than any quarterback stat that came before it. Unless people do the leg work to model winning as based on QB play in a better way, they're just yelling at clouds, IMO.

Without going into it too much, the fact that they have grades on both teams within an hour or so of the game being finished tells me they aren't being that thorough. That's not to mention the fact they have no clue what each players assignment is on almost every single play.

Feel free to give them as much weight as you want, I give them very little.

 

[lukerguy]

It's most discouraging to see Ifedi so poor. Given that we used a #1 pick on him, we need to let JS do the scouting and stop trusting Cable. Carp wasn't exactly amazing either.

I am shocked that Britt turned in to an above average C. That's a tough position.

 

[jammerhawk]

Fellas, we all need to be cognizant that every player,except Sowell, is playing their respective position in their first season at the position. Fant is a rookie and hasn't played LT before, he's actually surprising quite a few 'experts' and has some genuine upside, while at times just surviving out there. ÖGlowinski had a few snaps at RG last year, but is effectively a raw rookie at LG. Nobody really expected Britt to be as solid as he is at C, he's learning too, but has surprised in a good way. Ifedi has looked worse lately than at the beginning of the year but has flashed some real nadtiness and ability, I think he will prove out to be a very solid addition to the team, I'm less sure about Glowinski but it's early. Sowell was a rarely used depth player and swing T in AZ and not re-signed by them, he's on a 1 year deal here, it's interesting that Cable thinks he's better than Gilliam and he's a good athlete but seems like a matador at times. He needs to show more to stay here. I think for him learning Cable's system makes him a rookie in terms of experience as well.

It's frustrating to watch the same mistakes over and over but there have been some quite positive moments that some here will acknowledge. There has been progress but the last clunker was pretty ugly. If we do take into consideration the genuine lack of experience on the OLine, and also factor in the very significant cap savings the priest line gives the team we need to a bit less critical and a a lot more patient. In order to play this modified zone scheme Cable wants there needs to be athletic ability and a lot of team play.

I wish we could find a few more capable T candidates but if both Gs work out then it will be interesting to see if Odhiambo can show more if Ifedi moves to RT. I think we all need to ignore a lot of the noise about how some analyst site thinks they collective suck and look to the interesting development of this no name OLine. There have been more downs than ups but it may come together and will be interesting to watch. Until then perhaps some of us need to have a bit more patience.

 

[hgwellz12]

So shitty. Russell Wilson, a ONCE IN A GENERATION type of QB and he has to play behind this mess. I don't blame bro Lynch one bit for chuckin the deuce. He saw the writing on the wall.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yet even behind that pathetic excuse for an O Line, many will still blame Russ for everything. :?

 

[xgeoff]

One thing I would point out is that these grades do not show whether a player is improving or not. It's just a rolling average. For example, Fant was awful in his first outing, but has gradually gotten better (till Tampa, unfortunately). It would be great to see the game-by-game grades but that subscription is pretty expensive.

I would agree with this, it would be nice to see game by game updates on grades. You can do some of this manually if you take the time, I would be one of those people.

LOL, nice! I am not that type of person, but I appreciate those people that are

 

[xgeoff]

It's most discouraging to see Ifedi so poor. Given that we used a #1 pick on him, we need to let JS do the scouting and stop trusting Cable. Carp wasn't exactly amazing either.

I am shocked that Britt turned in to an above average C. That's a tough position.

Frankly, I thought that Ifedi's college tape looked really poor, and I posted as much in the draft forum.

However, and in defense of the FO, I thought that Jason Spriggs' tape looked awesome from College and I wanted us to draft him. I watched him on Monday Night (he started for the Packers) and he got his ass handed to him by Fletcher Cox.

So what I am saying is, I'm not sure there are many people doing a lot of good scouting with respect to O-linemen these days.

Someone on the board, however, was very high on Joe Thuney, who was drafted by the Patriots and is starting and (I think) playing well. So the Patriots continue to scout and draft well.

I really have not been pleased with Cable and his choice of linemen and his development of guys over the years, but I really felt that the O-line was starting to gel after the Patriots game. And, in fairness, we still may be only a RT away from having a good line.

Frankly, I've only really been impressed with Britt and Fant (at times) this season. But Glowinski and Ifedi seem to have all the tools to be really good and they are very young. Gilliam and Sowell, I just don't see panning out. But Odiambo, maybe. So much potential with these young guys. I'm willing to wait and see what happens the rest of the season. If these guys can get it together, what a coup to have such a young, talented line. Three Rookies (Fant, Ifedi, Odiambo), a 2nd year (Glowinski) and a 3rd (Britt). It would be absolutely amazing.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm still giving the staff the benefit of the doubt. That Patriots game gives me hope. And for those people who think the Patriots defense were pushovers, they are most certainly not. They rank 12th in run yards allowed and 3rd in points allowed. The fact that our guys did well against them was huge. I'm not saying they dominated, they're not there yet, but they don't need to dominate. They need to give Russell a little time. They need to give the RB's a chance to make it to the LOS before contact. That's all. That's all they need to do.

So, I've got my fingers crossed. Here's hoping that Bevell calls a good game (which he has shown that he is capable of) and here's hoping that the line can get their sh*t together (which they have also shown they are capable of).

 

[jdemps]

The analysts that I respect with reference to O-line play have more or less stated that Britt and Ifedi are keepers. The rest are JAGs. Can't seem to find the link to the article.

 

[ivotuk]

The analysts that I respect with reference to O-line play have more or less stated that Britt and Ifedi are keepers. The rest are JAGs. Can't seem to find the link to the article.

We'll wait...