Pick #35 Malik McDowell, DT, Michigan State

[dadof3]

At first I was pissed because we lost out on King. After some thought, I like it. Here's why:

The only young guys we have on the DL are Reed and Jefferson. Jefferson hasn't show much yet and Reed isn't a penetrator. McDowell is the best penetrating DT in college.

Takes plays off: Malik is going to be in a rotation at first. He'll get limited reps to split with Jefferson/McDaniel/TBD. This could motivate him to take the spot, or hlep him stay focused in limited reps.

Physically, this guy is a top 10 talent. Our defense doesn't have a problem getting motivated, at least the DL. Not just the coaches, but guys like Bennett and Clark are going to get this kid fired up and coach him up. McDowell's only knock other than motivation was limited hand usage (common for guys out of college) and lack of a counter move. Bennett is going to help with that, as he has some of the best hands in the NFL.

I can't decide if this kid or Griffin is going to be my adopt a rookie.

Great point about the rotation. A lot of his "motor issues" could be attributed to being double and triple teamed on every play, then he got down when the team wasn't doing well. He's only 20 years old, I'm sure they addressed it during the interview process. I think this kid's going to be a beast with fresh legs, no double teams, and veteran leadership. I can't wait to see our D this year.

 

[Hawks46]

My big problem here is that people seem to have amnesia when it comes to these dl picks. Clark and Reed were steals who were supposed to give us a dominant dl. Remember that? Anybody remember that? And don't get me wrong, they are good players, but they are not dominating from what I can see. Seriously how much draft capital do we have to throw at the dl?


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You're seriously complaining that a rookie, and a 2nd year player that had limited reps his rookie year, and that Pete Carroll came out and publicly stated they made a mistake in not getting him more reps his rookie year aren't DOMINATING the NFL already ?

Which job did you start out at and become the very best in the world in your first year ? Oh, and at 20 years old as well.

I get that people are pissed we didn't get Lamp, or another "elite" OL pick in a poor draft class for them. It's not THE guy you wanted with THE pick you wanted him at. But could you folks (and not attacking Geoff but his post was a perfect example) please put a modicum of perspective on it ?

 

[Hawks46]

Nice read.

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/4/21/15352 ... draft-2017

This guy gets it. I had to relook at the author, and realize that he played in the NFL.

When watching highlights of McDowell, I thought at first I was looking at the wrong guy. I couldn't believe they had a guy that is 6'6" playing in the A gap. McDowell isn't 6'3" and 330 lbs. He's not 6'2" and 325. He's 6'6" with 36 " (!) arms, and he's playing freaking NT. And not only playing NT, but he's NOT GETTING BEAT by double teams.....at 6'6". Kid was splitting doubles, or holding his ground. Then, the "critics" complain that he got into the backfield but didn't stop the ball carrier. Uhh, he gave everything he had just to get there....sometimes you can't finish because you're facing 600 lbs of guys that don't want you to get there.

He also has pretty damn good hand usage for his age. I saw one play where he beats the Tackle to the inside. He has to go inside because the team is lined up strong right with a TE and at least a big WR lined up tight to that side. He beats the Tackle with his hands so fast that the Guard doesn't get the double, and basically it looks like the Guard is taking him one on one. Then he beats that guy, but can't get to the QB in time, well, because he had to beat TWO GUYS.

Watching this, it's also evident that he gives it all out there, Maybe not every play, but most guys don't go 100% every single play. It can get you out of position, and guys will save energy knowing they're already out of the play. This kid was taking on double teams in the A gap, KNOWING he was being played out of position. He likely knew he was the most talented guy on the field (at least in the trenches) and also knew he wasn't being used right.

I'm learning a lot about this kid. And I like it.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I can't imagine having a problem with the Clark and Reed picks. Clark clearly is a beast, and Reed is just getting started.

 

[endzorn]

It's interesting to me that people on this board, of all places, equate draft round with actual value. I read these comments and it sounds like most thought we should have spent 26 on an offensive lineman just for the sake of plugging a hole. Have we not learned yet? There is talent scattered through the draft...it's up to the scouts to identify the fit...it's up to the coaches to bring out the talent.

Seattle drafted an offensive lineman they saw as a fit at 58 and people are acting like he's talentless because ESPN and NFLN didn't have him in their top three.

Listen, I'm not the biggest fan of any evaluation that says a guy is lazy, but I'm also not the guy who interviewed McDowell multiple times. We don't draft in the top ten any more, but this kid has legit top ten talent and there is a possibility he could be a game changing star. Has anyone read that type of potential from Robinson, Lamp or Bolles? I'm glad they took this chance. I felt like Pocic was a safe pick and Griffin is their type of CB (available here because the corner depth was so solid), but McDowell is taking a home run swing on a hitters count. If Carroll connects then we'll love this pick forever. If not, well, they added four other players. If even one hits then 26 was a success.

I love it. Mostly because in my biased opinion I think our defensive coaches know how to bring the best out of someone like him.

 

[Hawks46]

Not surprising.

The average person watching football and following a team sees "gee, our OL is horrible. We HAVE to solve this with our very 1st pick, because that obviously is the best player and we need to get it done"

We all fall into this trap to a certain degree; I fell in love with Kevin King because I saw the hole on the right side and also see the problems we're having with Sherman. Worst case scenario is that we crap around with 4th and 5th round picks and try to develop them, all the while never really finding that Guy. Then we have to trade or let Sherman walk because he's dissatisfied with his situation for some reason.

Or.....say Sherman tears his ACL in the 2nd game of the season. Who do we honestly have that can step up ? We're in a world of hurt at that point...unless Thorpe or Elliot steps up, and they likely won't be at Sherm's level.

Even so, they got Griffin who is an athletic freak. If they can develop that, he could be every bit as good as someone we could've drafted at the top of the 2nd. PLUS we got McDowell, who I think will end up being a beast. He sounds slightly pissed off at how his college career went, and Pete manipulates that chip.

I see what the FO did. You can pump resources into the secondary, but without pass rush, your rookies and 2nd year players will still get torn up by the likes of Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers. The best way to compete NOW with a damaged secondary is to get that pass rush going, and some of it has to come from the interior.

 

[ChiefHawk]

I am getting OK with this the more I look at the scores from last season.

In spite of O line challenges, it was allowing too many points which cost us games.

More beef up front on the D line?

OK.

 

[titan3131]

I am getting OK with this the more I look at the scores from last season.

In spite of O line challenges, it was allowing too many points which cost us games.

More beef up front on the D line?

OK.

not just beef - BUT LIGHTNING BOLTS SHOOTING OUT FASTER THEN ZUES HIMSELF TO THE QB

 

[Popeyejones]

I dont know how he fell so low some even saw him as better than guys like garrett and soloman thomas.

I'm ABSOLUTELY not suggesting he will bust (who the heck knows), but he fell because a lot of personnel people around the league think he's lazy and has a high chance of busting.

From Bob McGinn's great work this year (and every year) we know that for the NFL personnel execs in McGinn's poll McDowell was voted as the defensive line player with the highest chance of busting (he had twice as many votes as Tim Williams, who came in second place).

From McGinn:

McDowell isn’t expected to be a strong consideration for teams until the middle of the first round because of his stunning laziness last season, both in games and practice.

Quotes from personnel guys on McDowell from the article:

“Worst interview in our room at the combine,” one NFL personnel man said. “Completely sucked the life out of the room. He’s everything that’s wrong with the modern athlete.

“Been entitled his whole life. Not a worker. Doesn’t practice. Asks to be taken out of games all the time. Rolls his ankle and you’d think he had three compound fractures the way that he reacts. It’s hard enough with guys that aren’t (expletive).”

“This guy is an undisciplined and indifferent kind of a player,” said an evaluator from an NFC team. “He’s so gifted but he’s kind of his own man. You’d have to have a coach that could relate to him, that he trusted. If you did the guy could be as good as these other guys.”

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports ... 100738052/

Again, the draft is a crapshoot so it doesn't mean he's going to bust at at all, but that's why he fell. I'm sure the Seahawks weren't the only team that were gonna take him in the second round. Two years ago he was really high on people's draft boards, and then he really precipitously dropped due to his play last year and teams' interactions with him.

If he does or doesn't work out I think the Seahawks took him around where he should go, and would have gone if they didn't take him.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yawn, he's going to prove many wrong, just like Frank Clark did.

 

[Popeyejones]

Yawn, he's going to prove many wrong, just like Frank Clark did.

Remember that I was answering a question about why he fell.

I also think it's a really different situation from Clark and his fall.

Clark fell because of off-field stuff that was toxic for a lot of teams: there wasn't really anything to prove right or wrong about that.

McDowell fell because of on-field (and practice) stuff, which he may or may not prove people wrong about (why he fell to where he did but was still drafted highly).

FWIW, as for my own thoughts on the pick, I've said this in a couple threads not related to McDowell but I think it applies here too.

McDowell is a classic low floor/high ceiling player, maybe even more so than Foster (who, in the thread about him in NFL Talk, I defended the Hawks for trading out of that spot, as I said he was a good pick for the 9ers but would have been a bad pick for the Hawks as a low floor/high ceiling guy).

For the Hawks I only don't like the McDowell pick that much because personally I think that the low floor/high ceiling strategy of drafting makes sense for bad teams, but doesn't make nearly as much sense for good teams like the Seahawks.

Over time though I think it's pretty clear that JS/PC don't agree with that, as they keep on investing in low floor/high ceiling guys. This feels like a pretty classic JS/PC Seahawks pick to me, and it remains to be seen if it will pan out or not.

 

[hawxfreak]

It looked like later in the season he felt like he had no help and was pissed and mentally exhausted
Exactly the opposite of what he'd get here , with rotating and being used more on the edge
My guess is it'll give mike b and avril some less reps while letting us get back to having a confusing rotation that allows pressure with four and if that's how it goes I'd be on :179417:

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Not singling you out at all. Just in general, so many people freaking out about the pick before the guy even steps on the field.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^^ Gotcha :2thumbs:

And yeah, if I were a Hawks fan I definitely wouldn't freak out over this pick.

I don't like it as a pick that much (nothing against McDowell, I just think high-floor is a good draft strategy for a team as close and talented as the Hawks are -- they just need to fill out with above average starters and competent depth IMO), but freaking out over it or deciding already that it's a bad pick doesn't make any sense.

 

[Nog]

 

[MontanaHawk05]

You know, I don't deny that he's young and that there could be extenuating reasons for Malik's immaturity, but eventually, the excuses stop mattering. I hope Malik has learned some lessons from this. He isn't guaranteed anything in the NFL, including good leadership. He can't rely on everything going well. He has to be responsible for his own attitude and be a core of maturity himself, rather than waiting on others to pull him up.

I'm still rooting for him to be a great pick and I think he could be...but I also acknowledge my own optimism clouding my view. He needs to have learned something from that senior year.

 

[mikeak]

I really hope he proves us all wrong but as noted very different than Clark

The fact is that reading all these things gives me a sense that we believe he is called lazy and wasn't so productive because 1) injuries and 2) he wasn't getting coached right

To believe that a team like MSU doesn't have good coaches in place is really strange to me. This is not some division II school - this is a well established program that continues to churn out players. It sounds to me more like he didn't want to put in the work required by the coaches to learn better moves etc. Maybe if we are lucky it is the fact that doing all the school work and working out became to much. You know assuming he is the one college athlete that is going to get drafted that gave a crap his senior season (unlikely)

It is also concerning that he used these injuries as excuses when they don't seem to be severe injuries. This is a league where you play through injuries every single game.....

As stated I really hope he proves something but right now our 1st and 2nd round pick are guys that underperformed their senior year but we took them based on potential. We also did it ignoring other players that did prove themselves their senior year......... Right or wrong it is a risk and considering the number of players being free agents next year it is a big risk

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Looking forward to getting my McDowell jersey this year. Of course, I'll be waiting to see what number he officially gets. I'll never forget jumping the gun too early once and the number changed :mrgreen:

 

[chris98251]

I think there may have been a lot of stuff happening, seems like when the kid was mentored and told to just go play he did fine, being 19/20 he is immature, unless you have a certain moxie level having leadership thrust on you doesn't always work, Earl was about that age when we got him and was seemingly the polar opposite.

The men in the D line room will teach this kid how to be a man in the NFL, we have some good guys there. He is still a moldable personality at this point. A large amount of players coming out of college are 22 -23 or so, many are redshirted and have the 5 years, so he is young in a lot of aspects.

 

[WilsonMVP]

My big problem here is that people seem to have amnesia when it comes to these dl picks. Clark and Reed were steals who were supposed to give us a dominant dl. Remember that? Anybody remember that? And don't get me wrong, they are good players, but they are not dominating from what I can see. Seriously how much draft capital do we have to throw at the dl?


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lol Frank Clark is still a puppy. 13 sacks and 3 FF from #58 overall pick in 2015. I think every team in the league would take that production with that pick. He's already well on his way to being one of the leagues top sack artists and Reed had a more than fine rookie campaign. You expect these guys to be knocking on Cantons door the first day they put on a Seahawks jersey?

Great thing about Clark is RIGHT NOW he is STILL really young turning 24 in June. Reed is actually older than Clark. They will both be 24 when the season starts with Mcdowell being 21. Super Young line. Then you have Bennet and Avril on their last legs at 32 and 31