Poll: If Russ retired today does he make the HOF?

[bileever]

I might have to renew my hate for another year now.

You know what, me too. I thought that now that Denver's success or failure no longer affects us, I would stop caring about what happened to Russ. But actually, I've decidedd that I, too, will re-up for another year of hate. I'm not going to subscribe to the full-on, watch every Bronco game premium hate, but I will root against Russ and the Broncos whenever they are on national TV.

Because you know, hate-watching is a fun stress-free way to experience the NFL.

 

[RiverDog]

another SB ring on a different team would certainly cement it IMHO. My "multiple prolific seasons" assumes no more superbowls simply because the odds are stacked against pretty much everyone trying to win the next few years. I was simply suggesting a more realistic route back to the HoF, so barring another Lombardi I think he's gotta have a couple more good years.

Agreed.

But I'm not sure if another SB is unrealistic for any quarterback or team, especially in the AFC with the demise of the Patriots. The Bengals went from a 4 win season in 2020 to a SB and a FG away from a Lombardi in 2021. There's no reason why a rejuvenated Russell and the Broncos can't do the same. They're certainly starting from a higher base now than the Bengals were in 2020.

 

[IndyHawk]

You know what, me too. I thought that now that Denver's success or failure no longer affects us, I would stop caring about what happened to Russ. But actually, I've decidedd that I, too, will re-up for another year of hate. I'm not going to subscribe to the full-on, watch every Bronco game premium hate, but I will root against Russ and the Broncos whenever they are on national TV.

Because you know, hate-watching is a fun stress-free way to experience the NFL.

Right I won't be as full core but be looking at highlights..Making a few posts in here ect
Hopefully that gets it all out of my system after that lol.

 

[olyfan63]

I’d be very curious to see how many people that voted no, would’ve voted yes IF they won the Super Bowl against the Pats?

I'd flip from NO to YES. However, it DIDN'T HAPPEN because that play was the TRUTH about Russell Wilson as an NFL QB in big moments. Of course, that failure is equally on Brain-Dead Bevell, for the lack of situational awareness on matchups, and disrespecting Brandon Browner. Kearse is supposed to push Browner off the line to create the "pick"? Really? And Browner hasn't seen that play 100X in Seahawks practices and isn't smart enough to recognize it presnap? I could go on and on... (and have in other threads) sure it was "bad luck" for Russell, but HOF players "make their own luck" in big moments.

The reason this play even happened is that LOB kept the Green Bay NFCCG close, holding Peak Rodgers to FGs instead of TDs despite Russell's 4 picks. That elite LOB defense carried Russell to playoff successes and conference championships on his rookie contract. After he got paid... Russell never "carried the team" past the Divisional round.

 

[seabowl]

I'd flip from NO to YES. However, it DIDN'T HAPPEN because that play was the TRUTH about Russell Wilson as an NFL QB in big moments. Of course, that failure is equally on Brain-Dead Bevell, for the lack of situational awareness on matchups, and disrespecting Brandon Browner. Kearse is supposed to push Browner off the line to create the "pick"? Really? And Browner hasn't seen that play 100X in Seahawks practices and isn't smart enough to recognize it presnap? I could go on and on... (and have in other threads) sure it was "bad luck" for Russell, but HOF players "make their own luck" in big moments.

The reason this play even happened is that LOB kept the Green Bay NFCCG close, holding Peak Rodgers to FGs instead of TDs despite Russell's 4 picks. That elite LOB defense carried Russell to playoff successes and conference championships on his rookie contract. After he got paid... Russell never "carried the team" past the Divisional round.

Interesting how you bash Wilson quite a bit but as you say if Kearse does his job and Russ completes the pass you’d put Wilson in the HOF.

The point is one two yard incompletion or even two yard TD run by Lynch (or stop) should not make or break a HOF attainment.

Wilson broke tons of important NFL records or came real close his first 10 years in the league. He deserves to be in the HOF imo.

 

[bigskydoc]

Interesting how you bash Wilson quite a bit but as you say if Kearse does his job and Russ completes the pass you’d put Wilson in the HOF.

The point is one two yard incompletion or even two yard TD run by Lynch (or stop) should not make or break a HOF attainment.

Wilson broke tons of important NFL records or came real close his first 10 years in the league. He deserves to be in the HOF imo.

Except, a HOF player either makes that completion, or recognizes it isn't there to be made.

Losing that game is essentially failing the final exam.

It's like running a 10 second 100 yard sprint.

Prior to Carl Lewis, that basically gets you a win every time. In the post Lewis era, it doesn't get you on the podium.

 

[Mix]

Russell is borderline HoF possibly already has done enough.

Many people on here look at Russ through Ex-GF lenses.

 

[GGotskill]

Russell is borderline HoF possibly already has done enough.

Many people on here look at Russ through Ex-GF lenses.

By what measure? He's not a top 5 QB of his generation, probably not even top 10. He's already being surpassed by guys like Mahomes. There was an argument he was on his way there, but he's fallen off too the point that it would take another SB win at this point.

On top of that, the guy is absolutely washed up. His legs are gone. He may still be able to sling the ball around, but he will never get back to the Wilson that the NFL feared. Wilson without the threat to run isn't good enough. He's horrible at reading defenses and that aspect of his game will never improve.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Russell is borderline HoF possibly already has done enough.

Many people on here look at Russ through Ex-GF lenses.

 

[jammerhawk]

Change is coming and after the upcoming draft Russ threads are all going to be moved to the NFL forum. he’s a Bronco . I have hated Bronco QBs since forever.

He was special until the league figured him out. Now he’s another overrated and overpaid player who used to be special.

He needs to work on his trade to re-find his mojo.

 

[GGotskill]

Change is coming and after the upcoming draft Russ threads are all going to be moved to the NFL forum. he’s a Bronco . I have hated Bronco QBs since forever.

He was special until the league figured him out. Now he’s another overrated and overpaid player who used to be special.

He needs to work on his trade to re-find his mojo.

Why wait for the draft?

 

[jammerhawk]

Us mods catch crap for being heavy handed when we take a thread with tangential relevance but many pages of comments and move it.

It will be a year of he’s gone by then and while the policy has been to be flexible about RW threads this player while once our guy is no longer a Seahawks player.

 

[Mix]

By what measure? He's not a top 5 QB of his generation, probably not even top 10. He's already being surpassed by guys like Mahomes. There was an argument he was on his way there, but he's fallen off too the point that it would take another SB win at this point.

On top of that, the guy is absolutely washed up. His legs are gone. He may still be able to sling the ball around, but he will never get back to the Wilson that the NFL feared. Wilson without the threat to run isn't good enough. He's horrible at reading defenses and that aspect of his game will never improve.

Since 2012

Best Qbr Since 2012 | StatMuse

Since 2012, Brock Purdy has the best passer rating, with a 111.4 rating.

www.statmuse.com

Most Wins By Qb Since 2012 NFL Season | StatMuse

Since 2012, Tom Brady has the most wins by a quarterback, with 127 wins.

www.statmuse.com

2nd in Wins since 2012 -2 more than Rodgers who is #3
3rd in passing TDs - Behind Rodgers and Brady.
98 Ints - 1 more than Brady
173 Games Played - 1 less than Brady who has the most at 174
2 Super Bowl appearances 1 Win
Only Brady has more appearances and wins in that span.
Most QB rushing yards since 2012. 26 Rush TDs only Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson have more since 2012.
3rd most Total TDs since 2012 - only behind Rodgers and Brady.
If that doesn't make him top 5 of his generation we must be using different definitions.

Mahomes is special and in no way invalidates other QBs accomplishments.

 

[Mix]

View attachment 57209

 

[bigskydoc]

Since 2012

Best Qbr Since 2012 | StatMuse

Since 2012, Brock Purdy has the best passer rating, with a 111.4 rating.

www.statmuse.com

Most Wins By Qb Since 2012 NFL Season | StatMuse

Since 2012, Tom Brady has the most wins by a quarterback, with 127 wins.

www.statmuse.com

2nd in Wins since 212 -2 more than Rodgers who is #3
3rd in passing TDs - Behind Rodgers and Brady.
98 Ints - 1 more than Brady
173 Games Played - 1 less than Brady who has the most at 174
2 Super Bowl appearances 1 Win
Only Brady has more appearances and wins in that span.
Most QB rushing yards since 2012. 26 Rush TDs only Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson have more since 2012.
3rd most Total TDs since 2012 - only behind Rodgers and Brady.
If that doesn't make him top 5 of his generation we must be using different definitions.

Mahomes is special and in no way invalidates other QBs accomplishments.

You make a good argument and I would agree, if everyone's careers stopped today, it would be hard to argue against his inclusion.

I just believe that, by the time he is eligible, those stats will loose some of their luster, when stacked up against the next batch of QBs.

He is probably the best dual-threat QB to ever play the game, and we all understand that dual-threat QBs have shorter careers than pocket passers. Should this eliminate him from contention? I don't know.

 

[Mix]

You make a good argument and I would agree, if everyone's careers stopped today, it would be hard to argue against his inclusion.

I just believe that, by the time he is eligible, those stats will loose some of their luster, when stacked up against the next batch of QBs.

He is probably the best dual-threat QB to ever play the game, and we all understand that dual-threat QBs have shorter careers than pocket passers. Should this eliminate him from contention? I don't know.

fair points.

Only thing that I can even really disagree with is being judged by the QBs that followed after him. He should be held to the same standard as everyone else, was he a top QB of his generation. I firmly believe he was. Lots of the QBs that are used now to counter Russell are almost certainly younger QBs who while may have been playing well so far, have yet to do it at the level and length Russell did/has. Some are getting close however which is why I have to agree with the luster comment.

Edit*

Should this eliminate him from contention? I don't know.

I think this will go along the lines of DH in baseball being HoF worthy.

 

[GGotskill]

2nd in Wins since 2012 -2 more

Wins isn't a QB stat usually.

3rd in passing TDs - Behind Rodgers and Brady.

He's compiled a ton of stats obviously, but had taken a steep nose dive the past 2.5 years.

98 Ints - 1 more than Brady

But a significant amount higher than the guys just a few spots lower like Rodgers.

173 Games Played - 1 less than Brady who has the most at 174

This speaks to the stat compiling.

2 Super Bowl appearances 1 Win

Win on the back of one of the greatest defenses of all time, and responsible for the loss in the other appearance.

Most QB rushing yards since 2012. 26 Rush TDs only Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson have more since 2012.

Another stat which has dropped off in the last 2.5 years, and will absolutely get dwarfed by younger QBs.

If that doesn't make him top 5 of his generation we must be using different definitions.

It may have been a bit hyperbolic, but my point stands that he WAS on a trajectory to be surefire HoF. His production has dropped off to an extreme, and we will see a lot of his milestone stats get surpassed.

He's led the NFL in TDs only once. Besides that, never been #1 in any other positive stat besides QB rating, which also was one time. He has led the league in sacks multiple times. Also lead the league in QB fumbles multiple times.

Has a number of Pro Bowls but he was a replacement player in almost half of those. Never received an MVP vote. Only one year 1st team all pro. The same people who vote on the HoF obviously don't think Russ has been good enough.

Mahomes is special and in no way invalidates other QBs accomplishments.

That's how the HoF works though, it doesn't occur in a vacuum. The selection committee absolutely compares players of the same generation.

Another point, Pro Football reference has an algorithm that takes into account all pertinent stats & accomplishments and boils it down to a number (HOFm). Average QB is 109. Russ is sitting at 83.1. The only QBs to make the HoF below the average of 109, are legacy QBs and Kurt Warner. If Russ retired today, there are 7 QBs who would get into the HoF before Russ.

Barring another SB winning run or 5 more years of upper echelon play, Russ isn't going to make the cut in this day and age. By the time Russ retires most of his major accomplishments will be beaten.

 

[GGotskill]

Only thing that I can even really disagree with is being judged by the QBs that followed after him.

That's how the HoF works though. There's a reason why players must wait 5 years until they are eligible. Sometimes the NFL changes so drastically (rules, play style, etc) that players at the forefront of that change sometimes seem like these great outliers. When, in reality, the league as a whole just took a little longer to catch up.

He should be held to the same standard as everyone else, was he a top QB of his generation.

What denotes his generation? Surely there has to be some allowance forward and backwards?

 

[bigskydoc]

The

That's how the HoF works though. There's a reason why players must wait 5 years until they are eligible. Sometimes the NFL changes so drastically (rules, play style, etc) that players at the forefront of that change sometimes seem like these great outliers. When, in reality, the league as a whole just took a little longer to catch up.



What denotes his generation? Surely there has to be some allowance forward and backwards?

I've said before, but it bears repeating. Russ straddles two generations of HOF candidates. He will be compared to the accomplishments of the former, and the stats of the latter. Personally, I think he will come up lacking on both.

I also think his best bet is to slip in the lull between Brady/ Rodgers and Mahomes/??? in the years where his competition is legacy players and players in less prominent positions.

 

[Lagartixa]

Has a number of Pro Bowls but he was a replacement player in almost half of those. Never received an MVP vote. Only one year 1st team all pro. The same people who vote on the HoF obviously don't think Russ has been good enough.

You make some good points, but Wilson has never been first-team All-Pro. He was second-team All-Pro once.