Poll: If Seahawks won XLIX…

[seatownlowdown]

As amazing as he was in the fourth quarter, those heroics were necessary because he was so terribly bad in the first quarter. At one point the Seahawks went 33 games without a touchdown on the first drive. Yeah. More than two seasons, including the entire 2017 season with that scintillating 4th quarter passer rating.

Yay, 4th quarter. Wilson was between mediocre and ordinary the rest of the game.

how quickly they forget

 

[OrangeGravy]

Some of us need to take our emotions out of it and consider it's likely he will make the HoF, simply off of his existing record-breaking stats alone:

Russell Wilson has the most wins by a quarterback in his first seven seasons in NFL history. Wilson is one of five quarterbacks with 75 or more wins in any seven-season span of a career. Tom Brady is the only player who has managed to do this twice.

Russell Wilson has the 2nd-highest passing touchdown percentage in the Super Bowl era (minimum 3,000 attempts). Out of 3,291 attempts, Russell has thrown 196 touchdowns. His most productive year came in 2018, where he had a touchdown percentage of 8.2% (35 touchdowns, 427 attempts).

Russell Wilson has the 2nd-highest career passer rating (100.3) in NFL history. The only player to top Wilson is Aaron Rodgers who has a career passer rating of 103.1. Wilson's highest single game passer rating came in 2018 against the Detroit Lions where he recorded a perfect 158.3 passer rating.

Russell Wilson is tied for the most 4th-quarter comebacks (21) and game-winning drives (27) since entering the league in 2012, including postseason. One of his most memorable 4th-quarter comebacks happened in the 2014 postseason. Down 7-19 in the fourth quarter, the Seahawks came back to beat the Packers in overtime and clinch the NFC Championship.

Russell Wilson has the highest 4th-quarter passer rating (109.6) since 1991 among quarterbacks with 500 or more attempts. In 2017, Wilson finished the season with a 134.1 4th-quarter passer rating.

The Seahawks have a +269 point differential in the fourth quarter since 2012, the best in the NFL.

Source: Russell Wilson Mind-Boggling Stats (per NFL.com)

If it isn't followed by "best of all time", it's not a record, it's a talking point along the way.

 

[BASF]

Here is the reason I can't let it go. The Pro Bowl QB that was on the roster last year, at a fraction of the cost, and after having led the team to its first playoff berth in years, is being routinely diminished as a viable player, while the guy that needs supervision so that he doesn't burn up the kitchen is being worshipped as a deity at a disturbing level. The wort gazing is too intense in ONE DIRECTION for my liking. As long as folks feel compelled to disparage the guy that WANTS TO BE HERE, I will feel compelled to ridicule the worthless bum that doesn't.

I guess you might say that there is some type of inverse law of physics going on here. You think it is allowable to disrespect Geno? Fine. Then allow me to reciprocate with Mr. Unlimited.

I was actually talking about the marks that continue to bring him up.

 

[hawkfan68]

Here is the reason I can't let it go. The Pro Bowl QB that was on the roster last year, at a fraction of the cost, and after having led the team to its first playoff berth in years, is being routinely diminished as a viable player, while the guy that needs supervision so that he doesn't burn up the kitchen is being worshipped as a deity at a disturbing level. The wort gazing is too intense in ONE DIRECTION for my liking. As long as folks feel compelled to disparage the guy that WANTS TO BE HERE, I will feel compelled to ridicule the worthless bum that doesn't.

I guess you might say that there is some type of inverse law of physics going on here. You think it is allowable to disrespect Geno? Fine. Then allow me to reciprocate with Mr. Unlimited.

What? Did you just start following the Seahawks recently? They have been in the playoffs in 8 of the 10 years that Russell Wilson had been the QB. I could be misinterpreting what you are saying but the way that is written makes it a false statement. The Seahawks have made it to the playoffs under PC and Russell Wilson more times than not. Furthermore, they were a playoff team each year from 2018-2020. They missed the playoffs in 2021. So it's not first playoff berth in years. If you are referring to his stint with the Broncos, who gives a rats ass. That's a different team and totally different environment. Not everything is plug and play as many of you seem to think it is. His record with the Seahawks speaks for itself. He had success here.

 

[keasley45]

So apparently Dan Quinn and Sean Peyton don't agree that Russ is worth shackling themselves to. What does that say about his HOF ability?

It's as damning an indictment of the dude as anything. What coach would turn down the opportunity to play with a HOF qb and be in on the ground floor of building a dynasty over that players last 3 or 4 prime years?

Peyton, who was often brought up as THE guy who could meld with Russ and help him unlock his potential, was a hard no.

Quinn, who worked with Russ during Seattle's dynasty run, spurned the opportunity to finish his job in Dallas. Really?

And before folks say that it's now the cap issues and lost draft capital that's the reason the job isn't attractive, it the same cap situation and draft position the Donks were in when the world was hailing the acquisition of Russ as a slam dunk trade.

Truth- both of these coaches have inside knowledge and expertise that would - one would think - enable them to see the truth about who Russ IS and WAS. One SHOULD be able to easily resurrect Russ's career. The other should have a good idea of what's required to make him successful, given he's worked with him before.

Both said no.

As to his prior success, 2nd Championship or not, he was great, but had we not had Lynch and a defense that erased anemic performances by the offense under Wilson, there'd be no Championships or records for most wins. There'd be no records for comeback wins. Why? he wasnt ever able to do the things he's shown he can't do now. Basic, fundamental things. And those things are common traits of HOf qbs.
And those judging him now for what he achieved in setting all of those 'HOF' numbers, championships or not, will be forced to weigh how much of what he attained was by his own ability, and how much was a product of the coach who guided him and the team he built around him.

 

[hawkfan68]

So apparently Dan Quinn and Sean Peyton don't agree that Russ is worth shackling themselves to. What does that say about his HOF ability?

It's as damning an indictment of the dude as anything. What coach would turn down the opportunity to play with a HOF qb and be in on the ground floor of building a dynasty over that players last 3 or 4 prime years?

Peyton, who was often brought up as THE guy who could meld with Russ and help him unlock his potential, was a hard no.

Quinn, who worked with Russ during Seattle's dynasty run, spurned the opportunity to finish his job in Dallas. Really?

And before folks say that it's now the cap issues and lost draft capital that's the reason the job isn't attractive, it the same cap situation and draft position the Donks were in when the world was hailing the acquisition of Russ as a slam dunk trade.

Truth- both of these coaches have inside knowledge and expertise that would - one would think - enable them to see the truth about who Russ IS and WAS. One SHOULD be able to easily resurrect Russ's career. The other should have a good idea of what's required to make him successful, given he's worked with him before.

Both said no.

As to his prior success, 2nd Championship or not, he was great, but had we not had Lynch and a defense that erased anemic performances by the offense under Wilson, there'd be no Championships or records for most wins. There'd be no records for comeback wins. Why? he wasnt ever able to do the things he's shown he can't do now. Basic, fundamental things. And those things are common traits of HOf qbs.
And those judging him now for what he achieved in setting all of those 'HOF' numbers, championships or not, will be forced to weigh how much of what he attained was by his own ability, and how much was a product of the coach who guided him and the team he built around him.

I didn't see any big names (top coaches) lining up for the GB Packers HC (with Rodgers at QB) when McCarthy was canned in 2018.

 

[massari]

So apparently Dan Quinn and Sean Peyton don't agree that Russ is worth shackling themselves to. What does that say about his HOF ability?

It's as damning an indictment of the dude as anything. What coach would turn down the opportunity to play with a HOF qb and be in on the ground floor of building a dynasty over that players last 3 or 4 prime years?

Peyton, who was often brought up as THE guy who could meld with Russ and help him unlock his potential, was a hard no.

Quinn, who worked with Russ during Seattle's dynasty run, spurned the opportunity to finish his job in Dallas. Really?

And before folks say that it's now the cap issues and lost draft capital that's the reason the job isn't attractive, it the same cap situation and draft position the Donks were in when the world was hailing the acquisition of Russ as a slam dunk trade.

Truth- both of these coaches have inside knowledge and expertise that would - one would think - enable them to see the truth about who Russ IS and WAS. One SHOULD be able to easily resurrect Russ's career. The other should have a good idea of what's required to make him successful, given he's worked with him before.

Both said no.

As to his prior success, 2nd Championship or not, he was great, but had we not had Lynch and a defense that erased anemic performances by the offense under Wilson, there'd be no Championships or records for most wins. There'd be no records for comeback wins. Why? he wasnt ever able to do the things he's shown he can't do now. Basic, fundamental things. And those things are common traits of HOf qbs.
And those judging him now for what he achieved in setting all of those 'HOF' numbers, championships or not, will be forced to weigh how much of what he attained was by his own ability, and how much was a product of the coach who guided him and the team he built around him.

Weird how Payton would even waste his time interviewing a Me3 led team

Washington Post:

Now comes this note from Mark Maske of The Washington Post indicating that Payton is no longer a candidate for the opening in Denver.

Maske indicates that there was an issue between the highly-respected former New Orleans Saints head coach and Denver’s brass during the interview process. In particular, Sean Payton “fears a potential power struggle with a member of the ownership group.”

It doesn’t take a genius to read between the lines here. The Broncos’ sale to a group headed by Rob Walton and Greg Penner was finalized back in August. While Walton is taking a hands-off approach, the same thing can’t be said about Mr. Penner.

 

[keasley45]

I didn't see any big names (top coaches) lining up for the GB Packers HC (with Rodgers at QB) when McCarthy was canned in 2018.

I dont recall GB naming a shortlist and offering the job, to have it turned down. They targeted LeFleur because they wanted someone to challenge Rodgers from an xs and os perspective. And Rodgers had a hand in the selection.

Russ' camp reportedly contacted Peyton's team to let him know how much he was interested and was turned down.

 

[hawkfan68]

I dont recall GB naming a shortlist and offering the job, to have it turned down. They targeted LeFleur because they wanted someone to challenge Rodgers from an xs and os perspective. And Rodgers had a hand in the selection.

Russ' camp reportedly contacted Peyton's team to let him know how much he was interested and was turned down.

Russell's camp may have reached out but I don't recall seeing the Broncos even making an offer to them. I believe Quinn and Payton both interviewed (initial) with the Broncos. So all you're doing is trying to stir the pot based on your dislike for RW. You're better than that Keasley45. Shame on you.

This goes against what you posted about Sean not wanting to coach RW -

"On Thursday, Mark Maske of the Washington Post reported that Payton feared he would be at odds with Broncos team ownership if he landed there as head coach.

"There was an issue with Payton's interview with the Broncos," Maske said in a tweet on Thursday. "Payton likes the idea of coaching Russell Wilson and having that defense but fears a potential power struggle with a member of the ownership group, source says."
The link to the full article - https://www.nola.com/sports/saints/...cle_4e232b9c-9db2-11ed-a0c2-3fbf665e7f35.html

I guess Sean later retracted his statement about the Broncos ownership. So who knows the truth on this one.

Sean Payton also refused the HC job with Panthers, I believe. Sounds like he might be leaning toward not interested in becoming a HC after all. Plus he is at a disadvantage since the Saints can determine what they want in return for him. Maybe their demands are too high.

 

[CouchLogic]

Personally, I don't think he makes it in the first go anyway. He has good stats, but ate they good enough...I'm not so sure. He was on legendary pace early on and has slow burned to what we saw this year (not even saying he's at fault for any of it either).

I'd say Shawn and the weapons around him really, really helped Wilson achieve so much. During those early years, Marshawn and the LOB is what people talked about and will remember.

 

[hawkfan68]

Personally, I don't think he makes it in the first go anyway. He has good stats, but ate they good enough...I'm not so sure. He was on legendary pace early on and has slow burned to what we saw this year (not even saying he's at fault for any of it either).

I'd say Shawn and the weapons around him really, really helped Wilson achieve so much. During those early years, Marshawn and the LOB is what people talked about and will remember.

Good post, CouchLogic. In 2011, the Seahawks had a top 10 defense with the LOB in place (Browner, Sherman, Kam, and ET) (overall 7th ranked) and Marshawn Lynch was there producing 1204 yds rushing. Doug Baldwin had 85 receptions for 788 yards. So those pieces were in place and producing. Yet their total offense ranking was 23rd. They had TJack and Charlie Whitehurst at QB. That team finished 7-9.

Enter Russell Wilson on offense and Bobby Wagner (he replaced David Hawthorne at MLB) on defense in 2012. They finish 11-5 and went to the divisional round in the playoffs. To even state that RW wasn't a factor in their improvement is very disingenuous. He absolutely was an integral piece of why they went from a middle of a pack team to being a contender.

 

[keasley45]

Russell's camp may have reached out but I don't recall seeing the Broncos even making an offer to them. I believe Quinn and Payton both interviewed (initial) with the Broncos. So all you're doing is trying to stir the pot based on your dislike for RW. You're better than that Keasley45. Shame on you.

This goes against what you posted about Sean not wanting to coach RW -

"On Thursday, Mark Maske of the Washington Post reported that Payton feared he would be at odds with Broncos team ownership if he landed there as head coach.

"There was an issue with Payton's interview with the Broncos," Maske said in a tweet on Thursday. "Payton likes the idea of coaching Russell Wilson and having that defense but fears a potential power struggle with a member of the ownership group, source says."
The link to the full article - https://www.nola.com/sports/saints/...cle_4e232b9c-9db2-11ed-a0c2-3fbf665e7f35.html

I guess Sean later retracted his statement about the Broncos ownership. So who knows the truth on this one.

Sean Payton also refused the HC job with Panthers, I believe. Sounds like he might be leaning toward not interested in becoming a HC after all. Plus he is at a disadvantage since the Saints can determine what they want in return for him. Maybe their demands are too high.

I dont have a dislike for Russ at all as a player and feel ashamed for nothing. To this day, his is the only jersey I own. It's just amazing to me how even now, given the obvious messaging coming from current players, past and present re how fractured the lockeroom was given the bubble Russ was provided around him, a years worth of tape of him in Denver playing with the exact same holes in his game that he had here (just without PCs training wheels to keep him looking good), his current teammates calling him out, his obvious self delusional, narcisim (a characteristic that has obviously stunted his growth as a qb), and as if all of that wasn't enough... his backup... Geno Smith, taking his spot and doing sooo many of the things it was thought an offense under PC wasn't capable of... that after all of that, there's still this belief that the guy should be given recognition as an all-time great QB because of stats he acquired due in large part to the team and system within which he played.

And after all of that... you don't think that a coach who makes his money as a qb guru doesn't look at the situation in Denver and say... no thanks. Sure, Payton might look sideways at the ownership situation, but do you honestly think that he looks at Russ and says
...'man, too bad, I could do great things with that guy...' ? Payton worked with Brees and made a HOF legacy doing so. He of all people is capable of looking at the tape and understanding that if Denver is hell bent on Keeping Russ, that he will HAVE to work with a guy who literally lost games because he couldn't make simple reads. He walked when his option in NO was Winston and his HOF QB retired. He doesn't strike me as the type to waste his time on a player he either can't work with or a candidate he can't mold into something great. Yes, the reason he gave for stepping away was to spend time with family. I doubt that would have been the case if in 2022 he was looking at a Drew Brees in his prime at QB.

It's like being a really bad cook and having your friends turn down your offer to host dinner. Sure, they all might have verifiable 'other things ' they've committed to, but if you were Chef Ramsey with a pan in your hand, they'd probably find some free time.

Same with Quinn. Say what you want. The dude just turned down a HC gig for a franchise that a year ago was pegged as the hottest in the league because they acquired Russ... to return to the Cowboys and Dak, to try to make a 3rd run at a championship. ? That's code for... no thanks, what I've got here is ok for now, I'll wait until a better opportunity comes along.' Quinn knows who and what Russ is. This was his chance to work with him. It likely won't come again. He went back to Dallas.

Where's there's smoke...

But many were seeing the smoke with Russ for years and got flamed for it. Not surprising i suppose that he continues to get a pass.

 

[hawkfan68]

I dont have a dislike for Russ at all as a player and feel ashamed for nothing. To this day, his is the only jersey I own. It's just amazing to me how even now, given the obvious messaging coming from current players, past and present re how fractured the lockeroom was given the bubble Russ was provided around him, a years worth of tape of him in Denver playing with the exact same holes in his game that he had here (just without PCs training wheels to keep him looking good), his current teammates calling him out, his obvious self delusional, narcisim (a characteristic that has obviously stunted his growth as a qb), and as if all of that wasn't enough... his backup... Geno Smith, taking his spot and doing sooo many of the things it was thought an offense under PC wasn't capable of... that after all of that, there's still this belief that the guy should be given recognition as an all-time great QB because of stats he acquired due in large part to the team and system within which he played.

And after all of that... you don't think that a coach who makes his money as a qb guru doesn't look at the situation in Denver and say... no thanks. Sure, Payton might look sideways at the ownership situation, but do you honestly think that he looks at Russ and says
...'man, too bad, I could do great things with that guy...' ? Payton worked with Brees and made a HOF legacy doing so. He of all people is capable of looking at the tape and understanding that if Denver is hell bent on Keeping Russ, that he will HAVE to work with a guy who literally lost games because he couldn't make simple reads. He walked when his option in NO was Winston and his HOF QB retired. He doesn't strike me as the type to waste his time on a player he either can't work with or a candidate he can't mold into something great. Yes, the reason he gave for stepping away was to spend time with family. I doubt that would have been the case if in 2022 he was looking at a Drew Brees in his prime at QB.

It's like being a really bad cook and having your friends turn down your offer to host dinner. Sure, they all might have verifiable 'other things ' they've committed to, but if you were Chef Ramsey with a pan in your hand, they'd probably find some free time.

Same with Quinn. Say what you want. The dude just turned down a HC gig for a franchise that a year ago was pegged as the hottest in the league because they acquired Russ... to return to the Cowboys and Dak, to try to make a 3rd run at a championship. ? That's code for... no thanks, what I've got here is ok for now, I'll wait until a better opportunity comes along.' Quinn knows who and what Russ is. This was his chance to work with him. It likely won't come again. He went back to Dallas.

Where's there's smoke...

But many were seeing the smoke with Russ for years and got flamed for it. Not surprising i suppose that he continues to get a pass.

Dan Quinn was a finalist for the HC job last year when Fangio was fired but they went with Hackett instead.
https://www.denver7.com/sports/broncos/next-up-quinn-hackett-oconnell-emerge-as-finalists.

Broncos GM Paton was leading that search too. Russell was still a Seahawk at that time. Maybe Quinn doesn't want to work with Paton because of this. Could it be he interviewed to see if there were changes in Paton from last year's interview process and when he didn't see those, he decided not to accept their offer?

There could be an argument that it’s Paton that is the major issue in Denver and why the coaching candidates are rejecting their offers.

 

[Cyrus12]

Did Jim McMahon make the hof?

 

[BASF]

The Broncos job is not really attractive with all the assets they gave up and their soon to be lack of cap space. It ultimately doesn't matter who they gave up those assets and money for because they are not getting a good return on their investment.

 

[hawkfan68]

Did Jim McMahon make the hof?

He’s not and shouldn’t be in my opinion. How did McMahon impact the game? He didn’t other than being a Super Bowl winning QB. Plus playing with Walter Payton and arguably the best defense of all time.

Getting in the HOF is very subjective based on what the sportswriters vote for. Warren Moon
is in the HOF and haven’t sniffed a SuperBowl. Most of
his accomplishments have been in college and the CFL. I’m not saying Moon doesn’t deserve to be in. There’s not an exact science of who gets in. What is in Russell’s favor is how the QB position changed due to his early success. His success paved the way for QBs like Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, and Jalen Hurts.

I don’t believe RW would get in by stats alone. It would be how his intangibles (early success) may have changed the game.

 

[morgulon1]

I don’t have a big emotional connection to Wilson one way or another. Except for the infamous play at the goal line, he would already have two Super Bowls. Voters will consider that along with his career QBR. I would also not discount the possibility of a comeback of the Broncos next season, if they get a good head coach.

You beat me to it. Putting my silly personal " fan feelings" aside , #3 was a
Pretty damn good player for Seattle .
Yes , his schtick got tiresome but he was one of the better QBs for much of a decade. Remember how giddy the broncos fans were to get him ? That was a year ago.
I think if he gets back into real shape and gets a leader (coach) that can be honest with him and get rid of his posse of handlers , masseuses, and yes men #3 could have a resurgence. He lost that chip on his shoulder to become a fat ass Quasimodo celebrity.

I honestly kind of hope he does .

 

[hawkfan68]

The Broncos job is not really attractive with all the assets they gave up and their soon to be lack of cap space. It ultimately doesn't matter who they gave up those assets and money for because they are not getting a good return on their investment.

Excellent point. Actually I don’t believe any of the openings are very attractive for HC. Most likely why Quinn and Payton are dropping out. Maybe the Cards because they fired both the GM and HC. So they could be power for someone like Payton. However the team itself is not attractive. Think RW is a problem for coaches. Kyler Murray is worse.

 

[RiverDog]

Some of us need to take our emotions out of it and consider it's likely he will make the HoF, simply off of his existing record-breaking stats alone:

Russell Wilson has the most wins by a quarterback in his first seven seasons in NFL history. Wilson is one of five quarterbacks with 75 or more wins in any seven-season span of a career. Tom Brady is the only player who has managed to do this twice.

Russell Wilson has the 2nd-highest passing touchdown percentage in the Super Bowl era (minimum 3,000 attempts). Out of 3,291 attempts, Russell has thrown 196 touchdowns. His most productive year came in 2018, where he had a touchdown percentage of 8.2% (35 touchdowns, 427 attempts).

Russell Wilson has the 2nd-highest career passer rating (100.3) in NFL history. The only player to top Wilson is Aaron Rodgers who has a career passer rating of 103.1. Wilson's highest single game passer rating came in 2018 against the Detroit Lions where he recorded a perfect 158.3 passer rating.

Russell Wilson is tied for the most 4th-quarter comebacks (21) and game-winning drives (27) since entering the league in 2012, including postseason. One of his most memorable 4th-quarter comebacks happened in the 2014 postseason. Down 7-19 in the fourth quarter, the Seahawks came back to beat the Packers in overtime and clinch the NFC Championship.

Russell Wilson has the highest 4th-quarter passer rating (109.6) since 1991 among quarterbacks with 500 or more attempts. In 2017, Wilson finished the season with a 134.1 4th-quarter passer rating.

The Seahawks have a +269 point differential in the fourth quarter since 2012, the best in the NFL.

Source: Russell Wilson Mind-Boggling Stats (per NFL.com)

Russ was borderline HOF before the trade, at least in my book. His career stats in the two most commonly used metrics, ie total yards and touchdown passes, is a little weak. Russell is currently ranked 21st in total yards, behind a number of non-HOF'ers. He's in a little better shape in TD passes, currently ranked 13th, but still behind several of his contemporaries, among them Matt Ryan and Mathew Stafford. IMO he needed a league MVP or SB MVP to assure a first ballot entry.

But after this season, he needs a 180 degree turnaround if he wants to get back in the running. That's one of the dangers of playing for another team, that if you and your new team don't do well, it makes you appear as if your previous team supported your play rather than the other way around. See Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. Both went to different teams late in their careers and won Lombardis with them.

The HOF is a beauty contest, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That's why a player like T.O. didn't get in for so long. Russ has damaged his resume with is performance this season. HOF QB's don't finish a season ranked 27th in passer rating.

 

[BASF]

He’s not and shouldn’t be in my opinion. How did McMahon impact the game? He didn’t other than being a Super Bowl winning QB. Plus playing with Walter Payton and arguably the best defense of all time.

Getting in the HOF is very subjective based on what the sportswriters vote for. Warren Moon
is in the HOF and haven’t sniffed a SuperBowl. Most of
his accomplishments have been in college and the CFL. I’m not saying Moon doesn’t deserve to be in. There’s not an exact science of who gets in. What is in Russell’s favor is how the QB position changed due to his early success. His success paved the way for QBs like Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, and Jalen Hurts.

I don’t believe RW would get in by stats alone. It would be how his intangibles (early success) may have changed the game.

How exactly did he pave the way? There were plenty of running QBs before Wilson. Newton (first overall) and Kaepernick (36 overall) were drafted the year before Wilson because they were dual threat QBs. RG3 went number two overall in Wilson's draft class because he was a dual threat. Sure, Wilson was the most successful statistically, but let's not pretend that Wilson did something he did not. I think the shorter QBs owe Wilson their thanks though.