Rams 'knew' Marshawn Lynch would get ball at end

[Hawkfan77]

The only criticism I'd make is running the play out of the read/option shotgun, or any play out of that formation in that situation.

There's a ton of stuff you can do out of a goalline set, and people, like, use the set in short yardage situations for a reason.

There's also a ton of stuff you can do out of the formation we ran out of, like the read option (which happens to be a potent weapon when you've got one of the most agile quarterbacks in NFL history). There have been countless times when Wilson has ran for a 20-30 yard gain practically untouched out of the read option in similar X-and-short situations.

EDIT: did you edit your post and add the read option line at the end, or did I just somehow miss it the first time I read your post?

That is because Bevell insists on the illusion of trickery. No one thought we were actually going to pass in that situation, despite using the idiotic shotgun formation one yard away from the first down marker. We should have lined up in an I-formation with a lead blocker.

Umm maybe because we run like that and have run like that with great success. I know everyone has an irrational hate for a guy you all think you're smarter than (love internet coaches) but stop acting like the Hawks don't run those plays on 3rd and short without success

 

[Sgt. Largent]

You guys all off season kicked Bevell in the nuts for NOT handing the ball to Marshawn...............now you're kicking him the nuts FOR handing the ball to Marshawn.

Btw, it was a read option, Russell could have kept it and ran for the first down. If anything, Russell is more to blame than the play call. Obviously handing the ball to Lynch to get a yard is usually a good thing, but if we're handing out blame, let's not leave out Russell.

 

[XxXdragonXxX]

There's also more to play calling than picking run or pass. Like picking the right formation for a short yardage situation on 4th down. Hint, that formation is not the shotgun.

Hint: this isn't Madden, "shotgun" does not have to have negative connotations in this situation, it plays very strongly to the personnel we have and their skillsets.

I run shotgun on every play in Madden.

 

[uncle fester]

Not sure keeping the ball would've worked. Long was sat just off right tackle waiting for Wilson.

 

[justafan]

You guys all off season kicked Bevell in the nuts for NOT handing the ball to Marshawn...............now you're kicking him the nuts FOR handing the ball to Marshawn.

Btw, it was a read option, Russell could have kept it and ran for the first down. If anything, Russell is more to blame than the play call. Obviously handing the ball to Lynch to get a yard is usually a good thing, but if we're handing out blame, let's not leave out Russell.

Exactly.I have no problem with calling either play.It still comes down to the players winning the individual battles.
My only disagreement is last year our Oline had a better chance of winning a power battle.Yesterday we werent going to IMO.But again,yesterday it was a play that is a staple of our O putting the ball in our 2 best players hands.It didnt work out and thats the way it goes sometimes.

 

[Popeyejones]

There's also a ton of stuff you can do out of the formation we ran out of, like the read option (which happens to be a potent weapon when you've got one of the most agile quarterbacks in NFL history). There have been countless times when Wilson has ran for a 20-30 yard gain practically untouched out of the read option in similar X-and-short situations.

EDIT: did you edit your post and add the read option line at the end, or did I just somehow miss it the first time I read your post?

Yeah, sorry, was adding a second though apparently at the same time you were responding. This:

Trying to run a read/option on 4th & 1 is like entering a Lamborghini into a tractor pull; the read option preys on utlizing open space, and unless you're going to let your balls hang out and PA out of it and go over the top it's just the wrong formation in that situation (DL crashes down, LB matches with SS help crept down behind while you play single deep with CBs shading in to jam up and cover slants routes).

Absolutely agreed about the possiblity for a big chunk play (pass over the top, or Wilson and others running for forever running the read out of a short yardage play (IIRC this was the situation for Kaepernicks 90 yard TD run against the Cardinals last year), it's just really an all or nothing thing, which I don't think makes that much sense in OT (or even the 4th quarter really).

 

[Popeyejones]

There's also more to play calling than picking run or pass. Like picking the right formation for a short yardage situation on 4th down. Hint, that formation is not the shotgun.

Hint: this isn't Madden, "shotgun" does not have to have negative connotations in this situation, it plays very strongly to the personnel we have and their skillsets.

Madden doesn't have anything to do with it.

People don't run out of goalline packages in short yardage situations because they're all idiots, they do it because there's a wealth of different short gaining plays you can run out of the package that require a defense to stay honest.

If you come out in shotgun in short yardage any d-coordinator worth his salt is just going to roll the dice on leaving room over the top and clamp down on the few options you leave yourself out of that formation unless you're willing to give away the game on dice roll of trying to get over the top (which most people aren't, because they know they have more and safer bets when they just need a yard or two for first down).

 

[JimmyG]

People don't run out of goalline packages in short yardage situations because they're all idiots, they do it because there's a wealth of different short gaining plays you can run out of the package that require a defense to stay honest.

If you come out in shotgun in short yardage any d-coordinator worth his salt is just going to roll the dice on leaving room over the top and clamp down on the few options you leave yourself out of that formation unless you're willing to give away the game on dice roll of trying to get over the top (which most people aren't, because they know they have more and safer bets when they just need a yard or two for first down).

Look, I know exactly where you're coming from with all of this, but I still disagree. It doesn't matter what the conventional thing to do in this situation is. Yes, most teams would run out of something resembling a jumbo package for the reasons you described... however, most teams do not have a quarterback with the quickness and agility of Russell Wilson, so as far as I'm concerned, you throw convention out the window. I know some people think it's just Bevell trying to be "cute", but I think he's pretty clearly just playing to the strengths of our personnel.


Just as a general statement here (not in response to you, Popeye), I find the board's reaction to this ironic. People complain nonstop about Bevell being "so predictable", and now they're upset that on a 4th-and-1 he didn't run out of a jumbo package that screams "hey! We're running!" (how much more predictable can you get!?). People are going to say, "well, even out of shotgun, the Rams knew Lynch was getting the ball -- the Rams player even said so, look at the quote in the first post." That's categorically false, because we ran a read option and not even our own team knew who was going to be running with the ball until after the play developed.

 

[Hasselbeck]

You guys all off season kicked Bevell in the nuts for NOT handing the ball to Marshawn...............now you're kicking him the nuts FOR handing the ball to Marshawn.

Btw, it was a read option, Russell could have kept it and ran for the first down. If anything, Russell is more to blame than the play call. Obviously handing the ball to Lynch to get a yard is usually a good thing, but if we're handing out blame, let's not leave out Russell.

Rams DE stayed home, Russell would have been eaten alive for a loss of 5. The right read was giving it to Lynch.. and even then, well we saw what happened

 

[Hasselbeck]

Can you imagine how nuclear this board would have gone had we elected to throw it and we didn't get the first down? I'm anti-Bevell too but he's really in a lose/lose situation there

 

[Sgt. Largent]

You guys all off season kicked Bevell in the nuts for NOT handing the ball to Marshawn...............now you're kicking him the nuts FOR handing the ball to Marshawn.

Btw, it was a read option, Russell could have kept it and ran for the first down. If anything, Russell is more to blame than the play call. Obviously handing the ball to Lynch to get a yard is usually a good thing, but if we're handing out blame, let's not leave out Russell.

Rams DE stayed home, Russell would have been eaten alive for a loss of 5. The right read was giving it to Lynch.. and even then, well we saw what happened

Fair enough, I haven't seen the replay. Just wanted to state that Russell had options.

Bottom line for me is 31 pts should be enough to beat the Rams, or ANY team with our defense. So I put yesterday on the D, not the last play call or execution of it. Specifically the not so LOB and LB's. Terrible coverage and terrible tackling by the LB's and secondary.

 

[JimmyG]

Can you imagine how nuclear this board would have gone had we elected to throw it and we didn't get the first down? I'm anti-Bevell too but he's really in a lose/lose situation there

He really was.

Pass (e.g. Super Bowl): "OH MY GOD HOW COULD YOU PASS IN THAT SITUATION, THAT'S TOTALLY INEXCUSABLE!!!!"

Run: "OH MY GOD, EVERYONE IN THE WORLD KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BE A RUN. THE RAMS' PLAYER EVEN SAID SO. BEVELL IS SO PREDICTABLE."

 

[rcaido]

That's what Bevell gets for being Bevell! Its no win for him now. He should just hold out just like Kam.

 

[Sports Hernia]

It doesnt matter what he did there.If Lynch gets the 1st everyone says thats what we should have done against the Pats.
Personally I think it should have been a pass since our Oline against the Rams Dline wont win the power game at this point.We were able to get a lot of 4 or 5 yd passes all day against them.

Different defenses, different situations. Apples and oranges.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Can you imagine how nuclear this board would have gone had we elected to throw it and we didn't get the first down? I'm anti-Bevell too but he's really in a lose/lose situation there

He really was.

Pass (e.g. Super Bowl): "OH MY GOD HOW COULD YOU PASS IN THAT SITUATION, THAT'S TOTALLY INEXCUSABLE!!!!"

Run: "OH MY GOD, EVERYONE IN THE WORLD KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BE A RUN. THE RAMS' PLAYER EVEN SAID SO. BEVELL IS SO PREDICTABLE."

That post is just silly. Different situations, different defenses. Like I said above, you Bevell fans are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[DavidSeven]

Not sure what makes it newsworthy. Of course the expectation is that Marshawn will get the ball in that situation. They still have to stop it, which they did. And honestly, we created more than enough space to get the 1st. If Marshawn's first instinct is to go left, or if Gilliam and Nowak don't get completely blown up, it's a 1st. You have to win one-on-one. We don't get to put more players on the field than they do.

Sure, you can put a blocking back in too... great, they sub in linebacker or lineman to replace the CB who would be covering the WR you just took out and now Chris Long is also in on the RB rather than staying home on Russell. So, you've actually made the numbers game worse for yourself. The play could still work. Just as a bootleg could still work. I wouldn't call any of these a "bad call" in that situation. They might work; they might not. Players got to execute for it to happen. In terms of "probabilities", the spread-run or a bootleg are probably your best plays in that situation. The two-back run is the one that gets you the least flack from people who like to "lose the right way."

 

[JimmyG]

That post is just silly. Different situations, different defenses. Like I said above, you Bevell fans are comparing apples to oranges.

Sorry, but I'm not a a "Bevell fan". I just think the impact of an offensive coordinator is overstated by most fans. Ultimately it comes down to the players to execute.

I just find it asinine (and humorous) how every fan of every team in football thinks that their offensive coordinator is the worst in the league and a huge detriment to the team. There are probably 28 fanbases in the NFL that truly, sincerely believe their offensive coordinator is the most incompetent in all of football.

Blaming the OC is misguided and lazy.

 

[Hawkboi]

We were still in Pre-Season play calling form... Got to pick it up because the "Real Season" has now started... :shock:

 

[classicaaron]

You guys all off season kicked Bevell in the nuts for NOT handing the ball to Marshawn...............now you're kicking him the nuts FOR handing the ball to Marshawn.

Btw, it was a read option, Russell could have kept it and ran for the first down. If anything, Russell is more to blame than the play call. Obviously handing the ball to Lynch to get a yard is usually a good thing, but if we're handing out blame, let's not leave out Russell.

Rams DE stayed home, Russell would have been eaten alive for a loss of 5. The right read was giving it to Lynch.. and even then, well we saw what happened

Fair enough, I haven't seen the replay. Just wanted to state that Russell had options.

Bottom line for me is 31 pts should be enough to beat the Rams, or ANY team with our defense. So I put yesterday on the D, not the last play call or execution of it. Specifically the not so LOB and LB's. Terrible coverage and terrible tackling by the LB's and secondary.

i agree the defense didnt play stellar. they looked lost on quite a few plays and to give up the lead at the end of regulation was inexcusable but this loss is on the whole team not just the D. after all the D did score 7 of our points. the D didnt give up the 7 that the special teams did. The D didnt decide to do an onside kick with no chance of even forcing a punt. so basically taking the 10pts that werent their fault, 7 on the punt return plus the 3 on the field goal in OT which was a win for the defense the score should have been 24. and add in the fact they scored 7 themselves that is almost like a deduction of their points allowed and they gave up 17. i know were used to much better defense than that but this wasnt their loss.

offensively if i saw one more 3 yard swing pass i was going to flip out. we looked so bland out there. this was more bad coaching than anything that lost this game. not to mention our punt return for a TD, our offense did next to nothing. i know our line isnt the greatest but wilson needs to make his progressions quicker, i saw people open all day that he was either looking for the home run or trying to scramble for no reason which lead to many of the sacks.

overall it was a disgusting game to watch. the only saving grace is the whole team played pretty bad and we still went into OT. so if they can get the kinks worked out they should be able to beat pretty much anyone

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Blaming the OC is misguided and lazy.

Quote of the day.

FACT: Hawks under Bevell in 2014 had the #9 total offense, and #1 rank rushing offense.........and #1 in explosive plays. That was with one of the worst TE/WR corps in the league.

There are about 25 other teams that'd kill for that offense.

Is Bevell perfect? Hell no, no OC is...........but to just keep parroting "Fire Bevell" after every loss is tiresome and lazy.