Ram's trade 3rd and 5th for Fowler

[hawknation2018]

Congrats, Alice. Rams are killing it right now.

 

[RedAlice]

Congrats, Alice. Rams are killing it right now.

:179417: :179417:

Gets really tough now. Saints. Hawks. Chiefs.

Plus, every team playing their best to be the Rams first loss, or beat the “best” team.

What a fun season.

And, Rams haven’t played a perfect game - there is always a problem. But as a team, they keep getting the win.

By no means are the Rams perfect, but my god have they been fun.

Btw, Hawks looked awesome v Detroit. Looking forward to our game 2.

 

[Ramfan128]

Really well said. And the way they've set it up I don't even think the price of failure is that steep. Beyond the Cooks contract they haven't given any of these guys anything long term, and as of now they've lost what, a 2nd, a 3rd and some late round picks and they have two thirds coming back to them? For the chance to push all in that's a GREAT deal, in my opinion.

And they still have their first next year that they can spend on Edge in a ridiculously Edge rich year, if they don't want to bring Fowler back.

The Cooks trade and contact is really the only thing they've done that I don't like, but I also kinda get it because the WR market was just dumb all around last offseason.

I keep hearing "all in" and "mortgage the future".

Most people are not fully grasping what the Rams are doing.

IMO the key to longterm success is putting a system in place that you can switch out players and keep going; your franchise QB becoming elite to justify that pay increase; and drafting well.

McVay has the system - our offensive line features the oldest OL in the league, a good but not elite player in Saffold, a castoff old center in Sullivan, a late round pick that was cut by the COLTS in Blythe, and a RT in Havenstein that was considered a reach when we drafted him in the 2nd round - and he didn't play particularly well before McVay. Last year we went OL heavy in the draft to get Whitworth and Sullivan's replacements - they're currently our only two backup offensive linemen. Based on what we've gotten out of Blythe, I think these guys will be good. Saffold is the only one not under contract next year, but has already said he wants to stay.

We will be letting Joyner go and could potentially cut Mark Barron to save almost $10 million. That will allow us to keep the rest of the team together and sign a FA or two.

Between FA and the draft we'd be looking for Edge, ILB and S - but we could also retain Fowler.

This team will be around for a long time.

 

[Popeyejones]

This team will be around for a long time.

This is the only thing about your post I disagree with, and the only thing I disagree with about it is the prediction.

COULD be, yeah, absolutely, but WILL be is traipses off into homerism.

Compare this year's Rams to the 2012 Seahawks and look at their rosters and start predicting which team should be around for a long time. If you say the Rams over the Hawks you'd be lying.

What we didn't know in 2013 is that the Hawks were going to stack a couple of truly awful drafts on top of each other and make what turned out to be some pretty bad trades and FA decisions over the next couple years, and to heading to a decline in the next couple of seasons.

If it could happen to the Hawks, it can ABSOLUTELY happen to the Rams too.

That's WHY you push all in when you can.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And until they win a game in the playoffs, which they haven't done til 2004, they are just paper champions.
Saints will be knocking them off in the playoffs.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

That it folks, it is over, no need to play rest of the games, the Rams are the 2019 Superbowl winners, all because they are undefeated in week 9 :roll: .

They don't even need to win a SB for these moves to be a rational risk/reward push towards winning the SB. Are you just categorically against a team sacrificing long term stability for short term reward because you think that's 'the wrong way' to do things?

Problem is, if they don't win now, they are screwed long term.

Again, respectfully disagree. Rams are built for the long term.

Why do you think this?

With trading for Fowler you're out of cap space, which means you're going to see a couple players in the news the next couple of days with re-worked contracts.

Yes until Goff needs to get paid you're fine, but after that all these FA's you just signed are gone, and you'll have very few picks to reload the roster with the young talent needed because Goff's going to be sucking up 20% of the cap space.

 

[Marvin49]

Really well said. And the way they've set it up I don't even think the price of failure is that steep. Beyond the Cooks contract they haven't given any of these guys anything long term, and as of now they've lost what, a 2nd, a 3rd and some late round picks and they have two thirds coming back to them? For the chance to push all in that's a GREAT deal, in my opinion.

And they still have their first next year that they can spend on Edge in a ridiculously Edge rich year, if they don't want to bring Fowler back.

The Cooks trade and contact is really the only thing they've done that I don't like, but I also kinda get it because the WR market was just dumb all around last offseason.

I keep hearing "all in" and "mortgage the future".

Most people are not fully grasping what the Rams are doing.

IMO the key to longterm success is putting a system in place that you can switch out players and keep going; your franchise QB becoming elite to justify that pay increase; and drafting well.

McVay has the system - our offensive line features the oldest OL in the league, a good but not elite player in Saffold, a castoff old center in Sullivan, a late round pick that was cut by the COLTS in Blythe, and a RT in Havenstein that was considered a reach when we drafted him in the 2nd round - and he didn't play particularly well before McVay. Last year we went OL heavy in the draft to get Whitworth and Sullivan's replacements - they're currently our only two backup offensive linemen. Based on what we've gotten out of Blythe, I think these guys will be good. Saffold is the only one not under contract next year, but has already said he wants to stay.

We will be letting Joyner go and could potentially cut Mark Barron to save almost $10 million. That will allow us to keep the rest of the team together and sign a FA or two.

Between FA and the draft we'd be looking for Edge, ILB and S - but we could also retain Fowler.

This team will be around for a long time.

Here's the thing tho....

....you are in that awesome spot where you have your QB playing really well on his rookie deal. Take advantage of it while it lasts because as soon as he's due for that MONSTER extension, things will change.

Thats not to say "BANG" you start losing. It just means you won't be able to afford some other stuff and as a result the team isn't as deep.

Niners will never get that option with Garoppolo, but they did front load the hell out of his contract to give them leverage in future years.

That spot you are in is the zone all teams WANT to be in. Young QB playing great and under their control for a few years before they really have to pay him. That's not criticism. That's reality. Enjoy it.

I mean the CBA doesn't even give him an option to hold out. That's the perfect spot. Its part of the reason I have no issues with these trades. Go get it.

 

[Ramfan128]

Really well said. And the way they've set it up I don't even think the price of failure is that steep. Beyond the Cooks contract they haven't given any of these guys anything long term, and as of now they've lost what, a 2nd, a 3rd and some late round picks and they have two thirds coming back to them? For the chance to push all in that's a GREAT deal, in my opinion.

And they still have their first next year that they can spend on Edge in a ridiculously Edge rich year, if they don't want to bring Fowler back.

The Cooks trade and contact is really the only thing they've done that I don't like, but I also kinda get it because the WR market was just dumb all around last offseason.

I keep hearing "all in" and "mortgage the future".

Most people are not fully grasping what the Rams are doing.

IMO the key to longterm success is putting a system in place that you can switch out players and keep going; your franchise QB becoming elite to justify that pay increase; and drafting well.

McVay has the system - our offensive line features the oldest OL in the league, a good but not elite player in Saffold, a castoff old center in Sullivan, a late round pick that was cut by the COLTS in Blythe, and a RT in Havenstein that was considered a reach when we drafted him in the 2nd round - and he didn't play particularly well before McVay. Last year we went OL heavy in the draft to get Whitworth and Sullivan's replacements - they're currently our only two backup offensive linemen. Based on what we've gotten out of Blythe, I think these guys will be good. Saffold is the only one not under contract next year, but has already said he wants to stay.

We will be letting Joyner go and could potentially cut Mark Barron to save almost $10 million. That will allow us to keep the rest of the team together and sign a FA or two.

Between FA and the draft we'd be looking for Edge, ILB and S - but we could also retain Fowler.

This team will be around for a long time.

Here's the thing tho....

....you are in that awesome spot where you have your QB playing really well on his rookie deal. Take advantage of it while it lasts because as soon as he's due for that MONSTER extension, things will change.

Thats not to say "BANG" you start losing. It just means you won't be able to afford some other stuff and as a result the team isn't as deep.

Niners will never get that option with Garoppolo, but they did front load the hell out of his contract to give them leverage in future years.

That spot you are in is the zone all teams WANT to be in. Young QB playing great and under their control for a few years before they really have to pay him. That's not criticism. That's reality. Enjoy it.

I mean the CBA doesn't even give him an option to hold out. That's the perfect spot. Its part of the reason I have no issues with these trades. Go get it.

I totally get it. I just think people overstate this.

Example: take away Lamarcus Joyner and Mark Barron's salaries and give them to Goff - that would put him near the $25-$30 million range - and replace them with rookies (given time to draft them as the Rams will be able to do) - Joyner has been a massive disappointment after last year and Barron is playing now but was injured and missed the first 4 games.

The Vikings were able to fully load their team - and then pay out a crazy QB contract.

It will hurt the flexibility, of course. But I think people really overstate this.

 

[bigskydoc]

For the sake of argument, let's say that the "The Ram's are mortgaging the future" claimants are right.

So what? It's not just a rookie QB window that they are dealing with. They have just relocated to a "new" city. A city with a ton of competition vying for people's attention. A city who's isn't going pay much attention to a 11-5/10-6 team, who is one and done in the playoffs.

Capture a title, and you will capture the attention of Los Angelenos, albeit only for a brief time. If you can snag a couple of titles early on, even better. Several years of "paying off the mortgage" will take some of the luster off, but early success is the best way to build a fan base, and many of those fans will stick around through the lean years.

I love what they are doing. They've had a long-term plan in place for many years. It took a year longer to be competitive than I thought it would, but the results are about what I thought they would be.

For the record, I don't think they've mortgaged the future. Plenty of draft picks. Tons of avenues to open up cap space, if needed. Cap increases will give them more breathing room. Only question is, what kind of contract will Goff demand, and will the Rams be the first team to roll the dice, and scuttle a true franchise QB, when free agency comes knocking on Goff's door.

 

[Marvin49]

Really well said. And the way they've set it up I don't even think the price of failure is that steep. Beyond the Cooks contract they haven't given any of these guys anything long term, and as of now they've lost what, a 2nd, a 3rd and some late round picks and they have two thirds coming back to them? For the chance to push all in that's a GREAT deal, in my opinion.

And they still have their first next year that they can spend on Edge in a ridiculously Edge rich year, if they don't want to bring Fowler back.

The Cooks trade and contact is really the only thing they've done that I don't like, but I also kinda get it because the WR market was just dumb all around last offseason.

I keep hearing "all in" and "mortgage the future".

Most people are not fully grasping what the Rams are doing.

IMO the key to longterm success is putting a system in place that you can switch out players and keep going; your franchise QB becoming elite to justify that pay increase; and drafting well.

McVay has the system - our offensive line features the oldest OL in the league, a good but not elite player in Saffold, a castoff old center in Sullivan, a late round pick that was cut by the COLTS in Blythe, and a RT in Havenstein that was considered a reach when we drafted him in the 2nd round - and he didn't play particularly well before McVay. Last year we went OL heavy in the draft to get Whitworth and Sullivan's replacements - they're currently our only two backup offensive linemen. Based on what we've gotten out of Blythe, I think these guys will be good. Saffold is the only one not under contract next year, but has already said he wants to stay.

We will be letting Joyner go and could potentially cut Mark Barron to save almost $10 million. That will allow us to keep the rest of the team together and sign a FA or two.

Between FA and the draft we'd be looking for Edge, ILB and S - but we could also retain Fowler.

This team will be around for a long time.

Here's the thing tho....

....you are in that awesome spot where you have your QB playing really well on his rookie deal. Take advantage of it while it lasts because as soon as he's due for that MONSTER extension, things will change.

Thats not to say "BANG" you start losing. It just means you won't be able to afford some other stuff and as a result the team isn't as deep.

Niners will never get that option with Garoppolo, but they did front load the hell out of his contract to give them leverage in future years.

That spot you are in is the zone all teams WANT to be in. Young QB playing great and under their control for a few years before they really have to pay him. That's not criticism. That's reality. Enjoy it.

I mean the CBA doesn't even give him an option to hold out. That's the perfect spot. Its part of the reason I have no issues with these trades. Go get it.

I totally get it. I just think people overstate this.

Example: take away Lamarcus Joyner and Mark Barron's salaries and give them to Goff - that would put him near the $25-$30 million range - and replace them with rookies (given time to draft them as the Rams will be able to do) - Joyner has been a massive disappointment after last year and Barron is playing now but was injured and missed the first 4 games.

The Vikings were able to fully load their team - and then pay out a crazy QB contract.

It will hurt the flexibility, of course. But I think people really overstate this.

I can see how you see it that way as I've been in those shoes.

The problem is that it isn't that simple.

First, Goffs Contract won't be 25-30 mil per year. If he keeps playing as he does, by then it'll be 35-40. That's the escalating price of QBs.

Second, he won't be the only guy looking for a raise. If the Rams win a ring EVERYONE will be looking for a huge raise. Some guys they'll be able to extend and some they'll have to say goodbye to because those guys will be WAY overpaid by other teams and the Rams will rightly not match.

That will put a HUGE emphasis on the ability to draft guys late in the draft who can step in and fill big holes.

Don't look at past draft performance either as an indicator of future success. Almost nobody had drafts as successful as Seattle in 2010, 2011, and 2012. Those drafts propelled them to a ring.

When they ran into the above scenario, they simply couldn't replicate that success. that isn't a slam on Seattle either. NOBODY has lasting success in later rounds of the draft. Just doesn't happen.

Now maybe the Rams will be that team who can reload and move on, but it just doesn't happen anywhere with any regularity.

 

[MD5eahawks]

Wasn't there a big 'shock' reaction to them signing Suh? I remember thinking how bad ass that D was gonna look. But it didn't seem to work out that way cuz now they've gone and picked up someone to help. I have to, at this point, wait and see if this really makes the difference it should.
There are many recipes to build a Championship team. The Rams are most certainly going all in by trading away lots of draft picks for rentals.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

I totally get it. I just think people overstate this.

Example: take away Lamarcus Joyner and Mark Barron's salaries and give them to Goff - that would put him near the $25-$30 million range - and replace them with rookies (given time to draft them as the Rams will be able to do) - Joyner has been a massive disappointment after last year and Barron is playing now but was injured and missed the first 4 games.

The Vikings were able to fully load their team - and then pay out a crazy QB contract.

It will hurt the flexibility, of course. But I think people really overstate this.

I can see how you see it that way as I've been in those shoes.

The problem is that it isn't that simple.

First, Goffs Contract won't be 25-30 mil per year. If he keeps playing as he does, by then it'll be 35-40. That's the escalating price of QBs.

Second, he won't be the only guy looking for a raise. If the Rams win a ring EVERYONE will be looking for a huge raise. Some guys they'll be able to extend and some they'll have to say goodbye to because those guys will be WAY overpaid by other teams and the Rams will rightly not match.

That will put a HUGE emphasis on the ability to draft guys late in the draft who can step in and fill big holes.

Don't look at past draft performance either as an indicator of future success. Almost nobody had drafts as successful as Seattle in 2010, 2011, and 2012. Those drafts propelled them to a ring.

When they ran into the above scenario, they simply couldn't replicate that success. that isn't a slam on Seattle either. NOBODY has lasting success in later rounds of the draft. Just doesn't happen.

Now maybe the Rams will be that team who can reload and move on, but it just doesn't happen anywhere with any regularity.[/quote]

Here is my question on this. Do you have a group of people that you think are more necessary for the continuation of your success besides of course the QB, that will need to be retained? One such thought would be that your backfillers/draftees could fill that hole.

What I have seen on the Hawks is the guys that proved themselves get or got a pass for a few years without competition being brought in to sustain that aggressive attitude that made our team championship level. Always competing made a difference and after they stopped bringing in guys to compete per se, they started to lose that aggressiveness. I could also say it started the downfall and the lockerroom and field cancer began. When the team is too full of itself, it loses focus and vision of the prize. Refs help too. Thanks.

 

[Ramfan128]

Wasn't there a big 'shock' reaction to them signing Suh? I remember thinking how bad ass that D was gonna look. But it didn't seem to work out that way cuz now they've gone and picked up someone to help. I have to, at this point, wait and see if this really makes the difference it should.
There are many recipes to build a Championship team. The Rams are most certainly going all in by trading away lots of draft picks for rentals.

Rams will still have 7 draft picks this year after the compensatory picks are announced.

The following years the only draft picks we've sent out is the 5th rounder in 2020, and we will most likely get a 3rd round compensatory pick that year when Joyner gets signed by another team this offseason.