Random Thoughts™ on the Packers preseason game

[DavidSeven]

I'm not really going to extrapolate too much about Wilson's play in this game considering Rice, Miller and Robinson weren't playing and since Sweezy was beyond awful. He looked crisp and elite in the first series. Penalties and poor line plane disrupted the flow thereafter.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

I'm not as concerned about Wilson. Take away those two picks, and he had as good a game as can be expected. And one of the picks was a batted ball that landed wrong (it happens), and the other was just overthrown to a receiver that pulled up a bit on the route. Both plays were close to going any other way, and neither were completely boneheaded "why'd you make those throw?" plays.

 

[NorthDallas40oz]

-Something about Seattle's starting offense just seems off this preseason.

Uhh, yeah, I think it's the fact that it's been without it's top 2 WR's, starting TE and starting FB....all former Pro Bowlers who are in their primes.

 

[chris98251]

It looked to me that the whole team was out of sync, there were some great individual efforts but we seemed to be a victem of lack of focus, lots of penalties indicate that. The umpires removed any chance of either team getting any momentum. Seemed a lot of the team had something else going on they were thinking about.

 

[Dismas]

on Winston Guy:

you wrote that he helped his cause with the forced fumble, but I disagree there.

He was lucky as hell that his very poor attempt at a hit managed to land right on the ball, or else he would have slid off the tackle and given up a touchdown. He was sideways, throwing a shoulder into the guy, hoping it might end up a really big hit, but that "predator" mostly whiffed.

 

[AROS]

I agree chris98251, I think this team suffered from some unanticipated lack of focus in this game. Yes indeed the refs stunk big time, but they were not to fault all of the time. Even the worst refs will see triggers that are cause for pause (and a lift of the yellow flag).

If our OL was rock solid tonight and Wilson still looked the same, I would REALLY be concerned. The fact is, Russ snaps the ball and he's running for his life far more often than he should be. THAT bugs me more than anything.

 

[kearly]

Got an early start on the DVR study. Here are my follow up thoughts on the two hold calls.

-Sweezy held, but probably could have gotten away for it if not for a yanking motion as the runner ran by him. He had good hand position but the yank was kind of a giveaway that he had a grip on the defenders pads. It's the kind of thing a crafty vet wouldn't do, but Sweezy is years away from being a crafty vet.

-Bahktiari did hold, which sucks for him because it was an awesome block until the very end. Shark pretty much has it right- Bahktiari would have won his assignment and not been flagged had he just let go of Schofield at the last instant. The hold occurred after the runner was already past him.

I think both were fairly minor holds that probably occur on every play, and I think their being called was a symptom of a game that was called way too tight, but I no longer think either call was totally outrageous.

 

[kearly]

Seahawk Sailor, you can track users IP?

 

[kigenzun]

-Willson and McGrath had nice games. Mike Person saw a lot of time as a "blocking TE." Which is funny because right before the game I was just thinking about how badly Seattle needs a pure blocking TE right now. Person didn't look that great as a blocker though, sadly. Maybe we should convert Alvin Bailey or Michael Bowie to "TE" a few snaps a game.

kearly,
Nice rant. Good writeup.
You are correct sir, but still, my man 'The Sweeze' got totally hosed on that Lynch breakout run. Anyhoo...

I really like the new wrinkle experimented with in tonight's game regarding 'Person/6 lineman in a double TE power run set'; as I'm defininitely concerned that in certain situations Willson, Helfet, and even McGrath don't seem to get the necessary push we need. And here's my solution...

Personally, I am stoked by the progress of both Alvin Bailey(@RT) and Michael Bowie(@LG) as the possible future of the line. And I have also mused at length on how exactly to best go '2 blocking TE's in Beast Mode' right now with our existing personnel. IMO, if we bring in either Bailey or Bowie to play RG in 2 TE power run sets... and make "The Sweeze" the 'pure blocking/athletic '6th lineman #2 TE who goes in motion instead of Person.... Hey, we're in business bigtime!!!

On the whole, the TE's certainly played better as a group this game, but I think if we really want to go beefy in the Beast Mode, we should bring in Bailey or Bowie at RG and have 'The Sweeze' as the #2 "pure blocking" TE. Thoughts?

 

[kearly]

I really doubt they'd do it, but Sweezy would be an elite blocking TE and has the arms, hand size and speed to be a solid receiver. Not sure what his catching skills are, probably none. They would never do it, but it would be fun if they tried (in the preseason).

-Something about Seattle's starting offense just seems off this preseason.

Uhh, yeah, I think it's the fact that it's been without it's top 2 WR's, starting TE and starting FB....all former Pro Bowlers who are in their primes.

Wilson looked like a total stud playing with guys like Phil Bates and Lavasier Tuinei last preseason. He's also a guy that has put up terrific numbers without weapons his whole college career. Few QBs rely on weapons as little as Wilson does.

I think the reason the offense is off is because teams have figured a few things out to stop us. Namely, delayed blitzing and defenders reaching out to grab Wilson as he runs by. The penalties have really hurt a ton as well. Wilson has been inconsistent too. And then the weapons. It's a lot of things, but I think it's mostly how defenses have adapted to attack our weaknesses. Now it's up to Bevell to counter-scheme. Dialing up more screens would be a start.

on Winston Guy:

you wrote that he helped his cause with the forced fumble, but I disagree there.

He was lucky as hell that his very poor attempt at a hit managed to land right on the ball, or else he would have slid off the tackle and given up a touchdown. He was sideways, throwing a shoulder into the guy, hoping it might end up a really big hit, but that "predator" mostly whiffed.

Well, I'm not Winston Guy's biggest fan but I'll say this, the next time he uncorks a guy and he doesn't go down will be the first I've seen it. It's true that he didn't have great balance and didn't wrap up, but he can get away with that just because of the sheer force of his hits. He also got his helmet square on the football and it appeared to be at least semi-intentional.

I heard earlier today that Taylor Mays is on the verge of being cut in Cincy. My first thought was: Is Winston Guy good enough to keep us from rolling the dice on Mays? Answer: not really. And Mays is very much a long shot to ever be anything. So yeah, I don't think too much of Guy right now.

 

[kearly]

If our OL was rock solid tonight and Wilson still looked the same, I would REALLY be concerned. The fact is, Russ snaps the ball and he's running for his life far more often than he should be. THAT bugs me more than anything.

OL was fine. GB blitzes a shitload and Seattle was not prepared for it. They threw I think two screen passes, just two! And those passes went for a ton of yardage, btw. I'm a Bevell supporter, but he didn't earn his paycheck tonight. Also, really needs to be stressed that our RBs blocked poorly tonight, including Coleman. Also, Wilson took some sacks he shouldn't have. I'm mid 2nd quarter and OL only had one mistake, and that one mistake came against a 6 man blitz that overloaded the center with the RB leaving to run a checkdown route. WIlson should have hit Lynch as a valve, but ate the sack instead. Wilson normally makes our line look better than it is, but tonight was the opposite.

Also, Clay Matthews clowned Turbin and Wilson played it perfectly wrong. It was an awesome sack for Matthews though. I really wish we had a Clay Matthews.

 

[acbass]

I think a big part of Russell's problem is not having Miller or Rice. The became huge parts of our offense as the season went on and into the playoffs. I agree with the poster that said it looked like the receiver gave up on the route. I yelled at the receiver as it happened live. Probably not the smartest throw, but I think it's a different outcome if he runs through it. I think Russell is improving. He looked sharper tonight than he has. If that second pass isn't picked off and Tate holds on to that bomb, then we are looking at Wilson's performance in a completely different light. I didn't see the high throws and flat out misses he had the previous 2 games. My only concern is the amount of sacks he is taking. I do wonder if defenses have somewhat figured that aspect out about him or if he simply isn't up to game speed yet. Either way, I know Russell will correct it. My last comment is about Stephen Williams. I think he made this team tonight. He has shown he can be a playmaker and you can never have too many of those. His size and speed are incredible and I think he is finally learning how to use them. I mean, did you see that little underneath route on third and long that he stretched into a first down?! That was incredible.

 

[AROS]

OL was fine. GB blitzes a shitload and Seattle was not prepared for it.

Why not? On some level I would like to think our coaching staff was thinking GB will blitz a "shitload". Are they not earning their paychecks then? Not trying to be rude but come on...These guys are making more than CEOs in large corporations make...You would like to assume as a fan, that they have the pulse of their opponent to some degree, even in preseason.

They threw I think two screen passes, just two! And those passes went for a ton of yardage, btw. I'm a Bevell supporter, but he didn't earn his paycheck tonight.

Couldn't agree more. What the heck is Bevell's aversion to screen passes?! The more we use them in the right situations, the more we succeed.

Also, really needs to be stressed that our RBs blocked poorly tonight, including Coleman.

Again, totally agree. I'm still pissed on that Turbin "block" on Matthews. Yes, I know it was Clay Matthews but Turbin needs to show some semblance of pride, preseason or not, and protect his quarterback on that play. Reminds me of the Shaun Alexander play (and no I don't recall the game) where he lifted his forearm as if it would somehow magically stop a 290-310 pound blitzer. Hasselbeck ended up destroyed on that play and it was sheer luck he wasn't seriously injured.

Also, Wilson took some sacks he shouldn't have. I'm mid 2nd quarter and OL only had one mistake, and that one mistake came against a 6 man blitz that overloaded the center with the RB leaving to run a checkdown route. WIlson should have hit Lynch as a valve, but ate the sack instead. Wilson normally makes our line look better than it is, but tonight was the opposite.

Why do you think this is? I wonder sometimes if Wilson is playing based on the vanilla game plan to the point of taking sacks and forcing throws he might not normally do in regular season games? On some level it rings true to me. Look at any top QB this year in preseason. None of them are necessarily lighting up the highlight reels with their stats. There's an element to Russell's game in preseason this year that forces me to think he's purposefully playing at maybe 60%. Not that you would ever get him or the team to admit it. Maybe that's a stretch but it's how I feel.

 

[jhawk91]

So how worried about the offense looking out of sync should we be? They really need to get off to a good start this year, it's gonna be a big race to win the West, and the first few games (especially the Niners) is going to be tough already.

 

[Fuzzman55]

10
10
10

That's how many points the Chargers, Broncos, and Packers have scored against us. And I'd say they all have pretty good QBs. Offenses throughout the NFL are trying to find their rhythm, so take solace that this isn't a unique Seattle problem.

15
10

Just for fun those are 'Frisco's points scored.

Wilson doesn't worry me because he has been so streaky. At times he's been on fire and as good as I've ever seen him. At other times he looks out of sync. It's preseason and he's trying to build an offense. I think it says something that during the opening drives when they had some idea of what they were doing they've looked great.

The concern I'm fully on board with is at guard. McQuistan is an average player and Sweezy hasn't taken the step forward this year that I had hoped. He's still the high upside yet terribly inconsistent lineman. I don't even care about the penalty, that's correctable, but when he's on an island pass blocking he get so far out over his feet he looses all that elite mobility. If Carp could stay healthy he'd help out the pass-blocking tremendously, but I just don't know if he'll ever get there.

The interesting option in all this is Alvin Bailey. Very good pass-blocker, with the college reputation of not being aggressive enough in the run game. We all know how much Cable loves his road-graders, but if Sweezy keeps on being such a liability in passing situations I wonder if he will open up the competition. Trading Moffitt kind of shows you how reluctant they are.

I liked TE Willson today. You're starting to see him in that Joker/H-back role he's best suited for. At this point he's probably not going to be driving any DE's off the line, but those motion blocks across the formation he's been very good at. I've also liked his flashes of speed. There's a lot of development still to go, but I think he'll add some flexibility to our offense that we haven't had.

 

[AROS]

...McQuistan is an average player and Sweezy hasn't taken the step forward this year that I had hoped. He's still the high upside yet terribly inconsistent lineman...

First off, nice post. I highlighted a portion of your post that seems to be this paradigm we've all bought into without really having any reason to that I can see at least. Not you specifically of course, just this predisposition that we all seem to have as fans and media that Sweezy has this "high upside". Who says that? Pete? Cable? Even still, why do we think that's true? Have any of us truly seen this "high upside" or ceiling that even I have mentioned in the past?

I don't think that he's incapable of this high ceiling, but I sure would like to see film of it in action.

 

[kearly]

Why not? On some level I would like to think our coaching staff was thinking GB will blitz a "shitload". Are they not earning their paychecks then? Not trying to be rude but come on...These guys are making more than CEOs in large corporations make...You would like to assume as a fan, that they have the pulse of their opponent to some degree, even in preseason.

It doesn't matter how much money they make. If a RB fails to pickup a blitz and that's why the sack happened, it's the RB's fault, not the OL. If the QB fails to hit his safety valve, that's his fault, not the OL. If the QB runs into a sack, that's not the OL's fault. If the OC doesn't counter the blitz with draws and screens, that's not the OL's fault. If the OL blows a make-able block and that's the reason for the sack, then in that case, it's the OL's fault. But the OL was usually picking up what they were supposed to, at least so far. There are tons of reasons why sacks happen. OL protected reasonably well tonight, it was everything else that failed.

Why do you think this is? I wonder sometimes if Wilson is playing based on the vanilla game plan to the point of taking sacks and forcing throws he might not normally do in regular season games? On some level it rings true to me. Look at any top QB this year in preseason. None of them are necessarily lighting up the highlight reels with their stats. There's an element to Russell's game in preseason this year that forces me to think he's purposefully playing at maybe 60%. Not that you would ever get him or the team to admit it. Maybe that's a stretch but it's how I feel.

Because as I explained, Wilson made mistakes that led to sacks. He ran into two sacks, one of them by Matthews, and one by a big defensive lineman that had no business catching him. Playing QB is really hard, and I'm not trying to MMQB the guy. Lord knows I'm the president of his fan club. I'm just objectively saying that he made mistakes that directly resulted in sacks taken. He also missed the chance to target Lynch on a checkdown after a delayed interior blitz that was functionally unblockable (the thing about blitzes, some of them are just going to catch offensive formations with their pants down and QBs have to get rid of the ball quickly to avoid sacks in those situations). Wilson has to make that throw.

I think Wilson is playing 100% effort wise but is probably looking rusty because QB is driven by momentum and rhythm, and that was almost impossible to establish thanks to all the penalties the last two games. Remember how Hass to Djack looked unstoppable early in SBXL before the horrible calls starting raining down? Seattle had a ton of "drive killer" penalties tonight and actually overcame a few of them, but this team had to deal with a lot of 2nd and 3rd downs that were 10 yards plus, and this offense isn't designd for that.

Also, teams like the Rams, Cardinals (in Arizona), Packers and Redskins last year made Wilson very uncomfortable with relentless blitzing and interior pressure. That's exactly what Green Bay did in this game, and Seattle just went about their regular game plan. I think I heard them say on the broadcast that Pete doesn't alter his game plans in preseason, which probably explains everything. Had it been a regular season game, we might have seen the offense try to punish the blitz more.

 

[TwilightError]

I'm always looking forward to these random thoughts. Thanks again for a good read.

I wonder how the Packers feel about picking Lacy in the draft right before Seahawks took Michael? There is no question that Michael is the better player.

 

[Fuzzman55]

...McQuistan is an average player and Sweezy hasn't taken the step forward this year that I had hoped. He's still the high upside yet terribly inconsistent lineman...

First off, nice post. I highlighted a portion of your post that seems to be this paradigm we've all bought into without really having any reason to that I can see at least. Not you specifically of course, just this predisposition that we all seem to have as fans and media that Sweezy has this "high upside". Who says that? Pete? Cable? Even still, why do we think that's true? Have any of us truly seen this "high upside" or ceiling that even I have mentioned in the past?

I don't think that he's incapable of this high ceiling, but I sure would like to see film of it in action.

I think when we're talking about 'upside' we're really referring to his physical ability. It might not even be that much of a compliment because tons of guys never reach their potential, or become the players they could have been. It shouldn't cover up poor play.

When Cable went down to visit Sweezy before the draft we know he checked off all the physical attributes he looks for in offensive lineman. He's said in interviews that he wants quick and tough offensive lineman, and if there are two words you could use to describe Sweezy those would be it. So it's no wonder he likes the guy. And to be fair, there's a lot to like. Sweezy is agile. He's explosive. Unfortunately, he hasn't really refined those tools to help him with his pass blocking. At this point I think he's using his gifts to make up for his technique problems. That's where the apparent lack of improvement from year one to year two is frustrating.

 

[kearly]

...McQuistan is an average player and Sweezy hasn't taken the step forward this year that I had hoped. He's still the high upside yet terribly inconsistent lineman...

First off, nice post. I highlighted a portion of your post that seems to be this paradigm we've all bought into without really having any reason to that I can see at least. Not you specifically of course, just this predisposition that we all seem to have as fans and media that Sweezy has this "high upside". Who says that? Pete? Cable? Even still, why do we think that's true? Have any of us truly seen this "high upside" or ceiling that even I have mentioned in the past?

I don't think that he's incapable of this high ceiling, but I sure would like to see film of it in action.

I'm still charting the game, but one thing that really surprised me so far is that our best O-lineman in this game so far is actually Sweezy. Sure, he had a Giacomini-load of penalties and that's not something you want to see every week, but his pass pro has looked just fine and his run blocking in this game was epicly good. He is dominanting my OL notes so far with his outstanding run blocks.

Funny enough, maybe his best play is the one where he gets the late hit. He opens up a big hole that Lynch runs through for a big gain with a great block, then turns around and smacks another guy. Then, he goes for the 3rd guy to smack around and that's where he gets the late hit penalty.

On nearly every big run in the 1st half, it's Sweezy who is making dominant blocks to enable the play.

As far as upside, the upside argument was about his current performance, his rate of improvement, his measurables (long arms, fantastic forty time, terrific in agility tests). Sweezy has better tools than Matt Kalil. Consider the fact that he was a guy who had never played OL before- a month later he is starting in the NFL at G. For a good team. That really tells you all you need to know about his physical talent. Because he didn't earn that job so quickly because of his experience or polish. He earned it because if you have a ton of athleticism you can get away with some things a lesser athlete can't. Obviously, he also had a ton of room for improvement and as he learned his craft, he'd climb the ladder to potential elite status.

Unger took 2.5 seasons to get as good as Sweezy is right now, and Unger had a ton of college experience and is an above average athlete. Unger is one of the elite interior lineman in the game. People should be excited about Sweezy, not jumping all over him for every little mistake during his growing years.

So far, OL has looked really good last two games, though penalties have definitely boned us, and a big part of that is on the OL. Penalty-wise, this OL needs a lot of work still. I wonder if that might just be a trademark of Tom Cable though, seemed like his line in Oakland was penalty prone as well.