Random Thoughts on the Denver game

[Bobblehead]

I just want to say about the safety, that I actually thought it was a good play.

I wouldn't call it a good play, but ironically, I didn't think it was a bad one, though many in the chat room howled at it at the time.

Not in the form that it happened on, but a actual, take a knee.
We just didn't have any momentum at the time, everything we tried was backfiring.

Just thought it was the best play in a bad situation that we had.

I don't think I have ever advocated giving up points as a good play, but..

 

[themunn]

The safety didn't bother me too much, and I definitely agreed that sacrificing 2 points was worth it over what would have been a short punt - but if we're going to do that, we might as well wait until 4th down and call a planned one like the one against the Panthers a few years ago. Then we definitely should have attempted a pass on 3rd down and at least tried to get out of our own endzone

 

[kearly]

Yet, the sheer incompetence of the refereeing really hurt Seattle at the end of the game. It's tempting to think there's a conspiracy in which the NFL needed this game not to go Seattle's way - otherwise there'd be no hype for an actual Super Bowl rematch - but I have to go with the more likely explanation of poor prepping. When Denver, who is known for running pick routes, gets away with 3 or 4 of them in a row, one can't help but shake a head at the lack of flags. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me four times and make me wonder if you're even paying attention. Physical play is fine and good - the league saying pick plays are an emphasis then not calling them is frustrating.

Then things really came to a head when Aqib Talib dropped an elbow on, I think, Zach Miller. There's no excuse for that, and it should have been an automatic ejection. No ifs ands or buts. Yet, the refs flagged it and moved on. It's things like that which are worrisome - the league seems to have no interest in protecting Seattle or the defense. Something to keep an eye on.

This post would be so entertaining on any random Broncos forum right now. They have been bitching so hard about how Seattle was handed the game on a platter by the refs.

It's true though. The non-OPI calls at the end were ridiculous, as was the non-ejection. This was about as much of a hands-off crew as I've ever seen.

 

[kearly]

Just want to say, you all have some great points and analysis, very good reading.

I just want to say about the safety, that I actually thought it was a good play. Though the play I thought was just to take a knee at that point. My reasoning is that I believe we still would be up by 2 scores, we could punt the ball keeping the Chargers deep in their territory, which we did, then re-group and score again.

Had we failed to covert the fist down, we would have been punting deep in our end zone and probably had the Broncs starting in our side of the field and momentum would clearly still be with the Broncos.

As it happened , we did get a safety, we punted deep, pinning the broncs deep, having them punt... who knew we would throw an int.

Very true. Those 2 points ended up costing the Broncos about 40 yards of field position (Ryan had a majestic punt on his free kick that landed at Denver's goal line. He would have been hard pressed to match that kind of distance when quick kicking out of the endzone). It could be argued that the safety actually helped the Seahawks, especially since Seattle got the ball back without Denver scoring and with more time taken off the clock.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

A quick thought. I think James Carpenter might be the best linemen through 3 games. He's been a wall in pass protection and has shown a huge improvement this season in his ability to reach the 2nd level in the run game (despite looking slow as hell on that RB screen to Lynch).

There's been a few QB sacks/pressure each game on Wilson, but I can't remember one specifically that Carp was responsible for.

 

[drdiags]

Kam knocking the living crap out of Burley is the reason that 80-yd drive was successful. Burley had covered the play that worked twice in the drive once he was on the sidelines. They went after the replacement and Pete states the play's concepts had been run earlier in the game, twice. Not sure calling a time-out was going to help if as Pete stated yesterday, they had warned the guys a few times that the play concept was going to be used against them.

 

[bigskydoc]

I don't see how one can honestly criticize the play calling after the INT while cheering for what Pete has accomplished here. It was safe and conservative, just like the formula Pete has used to get to where we are today. Smash BeastMode into the wall and you may just get BeastQuake 2. At worst you run the clock down far enough that you force your opponent into an inherently risky strategy against a defense that feasts on opponents who are taking risks.

I probably would have taken one shot at either faking the handoff to Lynch one way and having Wilson scramble the other or give Percy a chance at a similar misdirection with strict instructions to both to stay in bounds and slide down at the first hint that you might be stopped short of the first. I wouldn't have put it in the air, even on a safe screen. Too little time off the clock if there is an incompletion.

I do think the player selection and a bad read by Wilson, not play selection, is what doomed us to the safety. Who thought putting Kearse on D. Ware was a good idea? He started his block well, and if he maintained it then Lynch picks up a yard or two for sure and maybe some bonus BeastMode yards. Of course, Ware just pushes him off and slows down Lynch enough for the rest of the D to swarm. Is Kearse really the best guy to have lined up there? I would think nine times out of ten Ware wins that battle. Miller was on the strong side, so why not line up Luke Willson to go in motion like they did with Kearse. Were they thinking that Kearse would fool the Broncs enough to alter their defensive personnel/ alignment? It didn't. They were already cheating on the run and only subtly altered when he moved inside. With the run lane depending on that block, Wilson should have recognized the bad matchup and called a time out.

Incidentally, Okung was a beast on that safety, driving Williams halfway across the field.

Edited to add. I didn't realize that there was already a discussion of the Kearse Ware matchup in another thread until after I posted this. Apologies and carry on.

- bsd

 

[DynoHawk]

On Percy bringing out that kick, I can't help think that PC told Harvin that they aren't kicking him any, so if he can square up on one to just take the chance. I mean its Percy Harvin, I like them chances.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

This game was one of the better ones of the Russell Wilson era. It's right up there with the Chicago game in 2012 or the Texans game last year. In terms of wild swings of emotion, this might have been the most intense game in many years.

The emotion of this game went from nervous doubt, to supreme confidence, to lingering doubt, to outright fear, to elation of near certain victory (Chancellor pick), to horror, to victorious triumph.

Peyton Manning very nearly brought his team back to victory in one of the guttiest performances of his career, and yet as quickly as the Broncos roared back into the game, Wilson and Lynch slammed that door shut. For as heroic as Manning was, he'll probably not sleep a wink tonight while muttering to himself "tails never fails."

And this happened between the best two teams in the NFL! It was only the sixth time ever that a SB duo met again the next season. And it was also the best game of the weekend.

Now that's going into the bye with style. Now all we have to do is wonder if Arizona can voodoo their way to 16-0.

I have to take my hat off to the Broncos. They had the right kind of gameplan for this game. They sold out to defend the short play, and they played physical. No fake-tough-guy dirty play in this one. Denver wants to be a legitimate tough team, and they showed that they've made real strides towards being a tough team in this game. They willingly let this game turn into a fistfight, and they damn near won it anyway. In our house. That's impressive.

John Fox probably had the worst performance of his career in XLVIII, but he had a good gameplan for Denver this time and his (or Adam Gase's) route running bag of tricks on the final drive of regulation was the work of an evil genius.

While the refs did blow some calls in this game, they seemed to blow calls both ways and they generally let both teams get away with a lot of stuff. In particular I saw a ton of holds by Denver's OL go uncalled, and a ton of iffy pass protections by Seattle go unpenalized. All things considered, Seattle usually wins when the officials avoid taking center stage.

Wilson finally paid big for a boneheaded throw, and for a few minutes it felt like Seattle was going to give the game away. But other than a few nightmarish series in the 4th quarter, I thought this was yet another amazing game for Wilson where he made plays despite rarely having open receivers downfield. And though Lynch's YPC was low, I thought he made a huge difference in this game as well. His diving TD to seal the game was vintage Lynch. He makes great plays look goofy, which is part of why I'll miss him so much when he's gone.

I am not concerned about Seattle's defense. That 4th quarter was weird, and no other team has faced anything close to the gauntlet of QBs Seattle has to lead off the year. I love how Seattle's run defense has looked, and though Seattle is hurting for sacks, it seems like they get the QB to hurry his passes more than any D in the league.

I am just a little concerned about the offense. Even though it's humming pretty well, it seems like a lack of deep ball presence really has defenses creeping up on the short stuff. Seattle needs to stretch the field in the worst way. Having only 1 deep attempt is a concern for me, especially since the success of that attempt should have goaded Seattle into throwing deep a lot more often.

Right now, I think last year's Seahawks team is the better version, but that will change the moment Russell Wilson gets his deep ball groove back and is throwing deep 4-5 times a game like he used to. I think the only thing separating Seattle from a 35 points a game average is getting defenses to stop cheating up so much.

That's what Richardson was supposed to be for.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Denver's defense is very good. And Seattle's offense is killed by Wilson never keeping on the read option.

When you're expected to beat the 2nd best team in the NFL, and you do? You're a champion.

They didn't have Von Miller in the SB. It wouldn't have won the game for them, but it would not have been such a flat-out ream.

 

[formido]

I'm not thrilled with the play call from inside the 1 that led to a safety. Why would we do that? Everyone knew we were going to run and it almost cost us the game. Why not run a pass play with max protection? Let Russ elude rushers and throw it away if he has to.

I really did not get that call. It was horrible.

Calling a run there is how that situation is normally handled. You call a pass and there's so many ways it could lead to a safety, including via holding penalty.

They should have called the exact same pass that was blown dead by the false start. That's the play I wanted in the first place, and the play they wanted too since they called it initially.

One thing that frustrates me about NFL play calling is how unsophisticated their game theory is. Seattle could have called that very same play and it would have worked just as well as it was about to, probably even better. Humans are bad at understanding what true randomness looks like. Random patterns have lots of streaks, but you hardly ever see teams run the exact same play repeatedly. I'd love to see Seattle run the Harvin jet sweep three times in a row to the same side. That would have defenses really guessing. Talk about a constraint play.

 

[Grahamhawker]

One thing that frustrates me about NFL play calling is how unsophisticated their game theory is. Seattle could have called that very same play and it would have worked just as well as it was about to, probably even better. Humans are bad at understanding what true randomness looks like. Random patterns have lots of streaks, but you hardly ever see teams run the exact same play repeatedly. I'd love to see Seattle run the Harvin jet sweep three times in a row to the same side. That would have defenses really guessing. Talk about a constraint play.

Minus the fact that the jet sweep is one of the easiest plays for Pop Warner defenses to read pre-snap.

 

[Largent80]

Not going for a TD after Chancellors INT. really brought my blood pressure up.

That is where I want to see a dagger put into them. We let them off the hook there in my opinion, but RW seemed to be off in the 2nd half a little bit on his throws. Gonna re-watch again today and maybe edit this later.

 

[Bobblehead]

I'm not thrilled with the play call from inside the 1 that led to a safety. Why would we do that? Everyone knew we were going to run and it almost cost us the game. Why not run a pass play with max protection? Let Russ elude rushers and throw it away if he has to.

I really did not get that call. It was horrible.

Calling a run there is how that situation is normally handled. You call a pass and there's so many ways it could lead to a safety, including via holding penalty.

They should have called the exact same pass that was blown dead by the false start. That's the play I wanted in the first place, and the play they wanted too since they called it initially.

One thing that frustrates me about NFL play calling is how unsophisticated their game theory is. Seattle could have called that very same play and it would have worked just as well as it was about to, probably even better. Humans are bad at understanding what true randomness looks like. Random patterns have lots of streaks, but you hardly ever see teams run the exact same play repeatedly. I'd love to see Seattle run the Harvin jet sweep three times in a row to the same side. That would have defenses really guessing. Talk about a constraint play.

Pitcher throws me the same pitch 3 times in a row, I"m killing the 3rd one.
Server serves the same serve 3 times in a row, I'm killing it
Guy wanna run the sweep 3 times in a row, I'm killing it.

You may get away with it twice, but three times in a row, no way.

 

[edogg23]

I was at the game, what an emotional roller coaster! For those at the game did the crowd seem up to par this game? I was at the game expecting everyone to be hyped out of their minds for this SB rematch, but to my surprise there was whole sections sitting while the hawks were on D and I could easily hear myself yelling, except for a few drives in the 4th quarter. I remember at prior games I would have a hard time hearing myself, it was just blending in with the sea of noise. Was it just my seats maybe, I always sit in different locations and I know that can effect the noise you hear (I was in the corner by the redbox sign this time)?

 

[bigskydoc]

I was in 306 row A for the first time. I was surprised that everyone sat for the entire game except for during big plays. There were only a couple of us true loud mouths when on defense, and there was excessive noise from other fans when we were on offense. Several of us had to keep quieting the fans around us when on offense. Overall, it was quieter than I am used to, but I couldn't get a read on how this compares to previous games since I have never sat in the upper deck.

My impression was that there were a lot of folks there that were either Broncos fans or were bandwagoners who came just because it was a Superb Owl rematch, not that I have anything against bandwagoners.

- bsd

 

[Scottemojo]

I'm not thrilled with the play call from inside the 1 that led to a safety. Why would we do that? Everyone knew we were going to run and it almost cost us the game. Why not run a pass play with max protection? Let Russ elude rushers and throw it away if he has to.

I really did not get that call. It was horrible.

Calling a run there is how that situation is normally handled. You call a pass and there's so many ways it could lead to a safety, including via holding penalty.

They should have called the exact same pass that was blown dead by the false start. That's the play I wanted in the first place, and the play they wanted too since they called it initially.

One thing that frustrates me about NFL play calling is how unsophisticated their game theory is. Seattle could have called that very same play and it would have worked just as well as it was about to, probably even better. Humans are bad at understanding what true randomness looks like. Random patterns have lots of streaks, but you hardly ever see teams run the exact same play repeatedly. I'd love to see Seattle run the Harvin jet sweep three times in a row to the same side. That would have defenses really guessing. Talk about a constraint play.

Pitcher throws me the same pitch 3 times in a row, I"m killing the 3rd one.
Server serves the same serve 3 times in a row, I'm killing it
Guy wanna run the sweep 3 times in a row, I'm killing it.

You may get away with it twice, but three times in a row, no way.

Denver ran the same play several times in a row on their last touchdown. They got away with a lot more than twice.

 

[hawker84]

I'm not thrilled with the play call from inside the 1 that led to a safety. Why would we do that? Everyone knew we were going to run and it almost cost us the game. Why not run a pass play with max protection? Let Russ elude rushers and throw it away if he has to.

I really did not get that call. It was horrible.

I dunno about that. Teams almost run in those situations. A pass play likely has a far higher probability of a safety when you're that deep. The run didn't work for us this time, because we couldn't get anyone blocked up. Horrible play call, though? Disagree, unless you think conventional wisdom is horrible.

If Wilson took a sack there, everyone would be killin' Bevell for not handing to Lynch to power out a few yards of breathing room.

I think if you watch the replay, Kearse got absolutely manhandled on the play by Ware and blew the play up in the backfield, why they put Kearse in that situation on the goal line is beyond me, not a bright play call. get another TE in there to block Ware, not Chop Chop?