Refs Refs Refs

[Polaris]

Read the commentary on Football Outsiders right after that game. The authors of the site flatly tell us that going by strict DVOA Seattle blew the doors off Arizona that day (it was by DVOA one of Seattle's best days and one of Arizona's worst), and that Aaron said the only reason the game worked out the way it did was because of officiating disparity (and openly wondered how and if he should include that in his statistical model).

Now being who he is and the connections he has, Aaron couldn't quite go to where we have here, but it sounded to me when I read it that he was stepping just short of saying that unbalanced officiating was the primary factor in determining that game.

Yeh, ultimately it cost us, but we shouldn't have put ourselves in such a poor position. It's OK though, we'll get 'em next time, and then almost immediately after that again.

No disagreement there. I just wanted to point out that it did happen, it was measurable, and it did have an effect.

 

[ilikedlargent]

they all get paid still and no one gets fined or suspended. The story is just for the fans. The refs did exactly what the nfl wanted them to do in the first place

 

[Largent80]

Suck, Suck, Suck.

 

[ringless]

Read the commentary on Football Outsiders right after that game. The authors of the site flatly tell us that going by strict DVOA Seattle blew the doors off Arizona that day (it was by DVOA one of Seattle's best days and one of Arizona's worst), and that Aaron said the only reason the game worked out the way it did was because of officiating disparity (and openly wondered how and if he should include that in his statistical model).

Now being who he is and the connections he has, Aaron couldn't quite go to where we have here, but it sounded to me when I read it that he was stepping just short of saying that unbalanced officiating was the primary factor in determining that game.

Yeh, ultimately it cost us, but we shouldn't have put ourselves in such a poor position. It's OK though, we'll get 'em next time, and then almost immediately after that again.

No disagreement there. I just wanted to point out that it did happen, it was measurable, and it did have an effect.

Okay lets look at DVOA then. According to DVOA The chiefs are a better football team than Seattle. Do you agree or disagree? I mean if DVOA is so accurate and the end all the only conclusion is if the Seahawks and Chiefs faced off the Chiefs would likely beat Seattle since DVOA says the chiefs are better than Seattle.

If DVOA is so accurate. Why doesnt Seattle have 7, 8, or 9 wins?

DVOA is a tool, but it is not 100% factual. No tool is, they only help with the picture.

But then you have to take into account the Detroit game no? Everyone says the play has never been called that way (yet nobody can find an example of when it happened) It was a penalty that was not called. So refs refs refs right. ( I would have disagreed with the penalty anyways as it was obvious nobody else was getting to the ball) However the law is the law is the law.

What about the penalties that favored Seattle in Dallas?

The point is some have gone for and against Seattle as well. Just like the other 31 teams in this league.

The only reason this conversation is being had is because Seattle is close to losing their division title. I truly believe the Seahawks didn't play ball for 60 minutes and thats why they lost. They had a chance to make stops at the end of that game and they just didn't make the stops. Just like their other 4 losses when the games where on the line.

 

[Polaris]

False. See www.footballoutsiders.com

Seattle is rated above Arizona in DVOA. Check it out.

 

[Rex]

The rules are already ridiculously skewed in favor of the QB and the WRs so a passing team like AZ should be 11-0. Thank goodness what is left of the Rams will hang a third loss on 'Ol Wobbly Jowls! But then there's the refs.....

 

[Hawkpower]

Read the commentary on Football Outsiders right after that game. The authors of the site flatly tell us that going by strict DVOA Seattle blew the doors off Arizona that day (it was by DVOA one of Seattle's best days and one of Arizona's worst), and that Aaron said the only reason the game worked out the way it did was because of officiating disparity (and openly wondered how and if he should include that in his statistical model).

Now being who he is and the connections he has, Aaron couldn't quite go to where we have here, but it sounded to me when I read it that he was stepping just short of saying that unbalanced officiating was the primary factor in determining that game.

Yeh, ultimately it cost us, but we shouldn't have put ourselves in such a poor position. It's OK though, we'll get 'em next time, and then almost immediately after that again.

No disagreement there. I just wanted to point out that it did happen, it was measurable, and it did have an effect.

Okay lets look at DVOA then. According to DVOA The chiefs are a better football team than Seattle. Do you agree or disagree? I mean if DVOA is so accurate and the end all the only conclusion is if the Seahawks and Chiefs faced off the Chiefs would likely beat Seattle since DVOA says the chiefs are better than Seattle.

If DVOA is so accurate. Why doesnt Seattle have 7, 8, or 9 wins?

DVOA is a tool, but it is not 100% factual. No tool is, they only help with the picture.

But then you have to take into account the Detroit game no? Everyone says the play has never been called that way (yet nobody can find an example of when it happened) It was a penalty that was not called. So refs refs refs right. ( I would have disagreed with the penalty anyways as it was obvious nobody else was getting to the ball) However the law is the law is the law.




What about the penalties that favored Seattle in Dallas?

The point is some have gone for and against Seattle as well. Just like the other 31 teams in this league.

The only reason this conversation is being had is because Seattle is close to losing their division title. I truly believe the Seahawks didn't play ball for 60 minutes and thats why they lost. They had a chance to make stops at the end of that game and they just didn't make the stops. Just like their other 4 losses when the games where on the line.

No, the conversation is taking place because there are still Cards fans who refuse to admit that the horrible officiating in that game impacted the outcome.

We all know that there are many examples of poorly officiated games. Its just too bad that it had to happen in such a big game.

Luckily, it appears Seattle will get a chance to right the wrong and prove themselves in the playoffs come January.

 

[ringless]

The rules are already ridiculously skewed in favor of the QB and the WRs so a passing team like AZ should be 11-0. Thank goodness what is left of the Rams will hang a third loss on 'Ol Wobbly Jowls! But then there's the refs.....

What's left of the Rams. Looking at your injury report it looks like you guys are pretty healthy. Minus the WR who got shot in the head who's got as much talent as a mop bucket and two DL who are quite frankly overrated.

If we had the talent the Rams have we'd be 11-0. Shit, Jeff fisher could use a pro bowl roster on offense and defense and play against community colleges and still find his way to a 7-9 season. Speaking of that do you remember all that incessant babbling you did supporting Jeff fisher and how a winning season 14 years ago proved he was a winning coach despite always shitting the bed? I do. I'll try to bump it later so we can reflect together on the beauty of our comments. The passion we shared on the subject was electrifying.

 

[Ramfan128]

The rules are already ridiculously skewed in favor of the QB and the WRs so a passing team like AZ should be 11-0. Thank goodness what is left of the Rams will hang a third loss on 'Ol Wobbly Jowls! But then there's the refs.....

What's left of the Rams. Looking at your injury report it looks like you guys are pretty healthy. Minus the WR who got shot in the head who's got as much talent as a mop bucket and two DL who are quite frankly overrated.

If we had the talent the Rams have we'd be 11-0. Shit, Jeff fisher could use a pro bowl roster on offense and defense and play against community colleges and still find his way to a 7-9 season. Speaking of that do you remember all that incessant babbling you did supporting Jeff fisher and how a winning season 14 years ago proved he was a winning coach despite always shitting the bed? I do. I'll try to bump it later so we can reflect together on the beauty of our comments. The passion we shared on the subject was electrifying.

Did you really just say Robert Quinn is overrated?

 

[Ramfan128]

Arizona could also argue that they got shafted against the Rams.

Which means fans could explain both of their losses away by blaming the refs.

Seattle has gotten the favorable end of two calls in the past 4 years that have, quite literally, won them those two games. I'm not arguing anything here...just pointing out that the two calls were questionable and both times Seattle got the benefit. So you have what you perceive to be unbiased officiating in this game and won't stop harking on about it???

If all calls were properly made, you MIGHT have beat Arizona. A lot of those calls were legit, and some of the Seahawk fans on this very board have said as much. But if all calls were properly made, you'd likely have one less win and one more win, and Arizona would likely have two less wins and two less losses....making your records the exact same as they are, with the only difference being your division records and head to head match up....which is important....but again, not one of you can prove that you would have actually won the game - so why complain about it?? Penalties or not, your "defense" got torched at home.

 

[Ramfan128]

The rules are already ridiculously skewed in favor of the QB and the WRs so a passing team like AZ should be 11-0. Thank goodness what is left of the Rams will hang a third loss on 'Ol Wobbly Jowls! But then there's the refs.....

What's left of the Rams. Looking at your injury report it looks like you guys are pretty healthy. Minus the WR who got shot in the head who's got as much talent as a mop bucket and two DL who are quite frankly overrated.

If we had the talent the Rams have we'd be 11-0. Shit, Jeff fisher could use a pro bowl roster on offense and defense and play against community colleges and still find his way to a 7-9 season. Speaking of that do you remember all that incessant babbling you did supporting Jeff fisher and how a winning season 14 years ago proved he was a winning coach despite always shitting the bed? I do. I'll try to bump it later so we can reflect together on the beauty of our comments. The passion we shared on the subject was electrifying.

Did you really just say Robert Quinn is overrated?

I'll answer for you. Quinn is still arguably the best 4-3 DE in the game. Dumb comment.

Glad you finally came around and admitted that the Rams are more talented....and I also cannot wait for the end of Jeff Fisher as the Rams coach.

Bailey, while not a great WR, would look far better on a team with an actual QB. I'd venture to say he would look damn good in Arizona with that offense.

 

[Hawkpower]

Arizona could also argue that they got shafted against the Rams.

Which means fans could explain both of their losses away by blaming the refs.

Seattle has gotten the favorable end of two calls in the past 4 years that have, quite literally, won them those two games. I'm not arguing anything here...just pointing out that the two calls were questionable and both times Seattle got the benefit. So you have what you perceive to be unbiased officiating in this game and won't stop harking on about it???

If all calls were properly made, you MIGHT have beat Arizona. A lot of those calls were legit, and some of the Seahawk fans on this very board have said as much. But if all calls were properly made, you'd likely have one less win and one more win, and Arizona would likely have two less wins and two less losses....making your records the exact same as they are, with the only difference being your division records and head to head match up....which is important....but again, not one of you can prove that you would have actually won the game - so why complain about it?? Penalties or not, your "defense" got torched at home.

Probably some validity to that. Looking at the scene as a whole brings perspective, but the individual game still stings.

And as I have said, it is understandable why a Cards fan would take that stance. Seattle is one of their biggest threats to where they hope to be someday, and in their mind they took a big step towards that with the win. Ref talk threatens that narrative, so I get it.

As a side note, putting "defense" in quotation marks looks silly when the defense in question is top 5 in the NFL. Thanks.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

...........Shit, Jeff fisher could use a pro bowl roster on offense and defense and play against community colleges and still find his way to a 7-9 season.......

So true. Hope he stays as Rams coach til he dies.

 

[Maulbert]

The rules are already ridiculously skewed in favor of the QB and the WRs so a passing team like AZ should be 11-0. Thank goodness what is left of the Rams will hang a third loss on 'Ol Wobbly Jowls! But then there's the refs.....

What's left of the Rams. Looking at your injury report it looks like you guys are pretty healthy. Minus the WR who got shot in the head who's got as much talent as a mop bucket and two DL who are quite frankly overrated.

If we had the talent the Rams have we'd be 11-0. Shit, Jeff fisher could use a pro bowl roster on offense and defense and play against community colleges and still find his way to a 7-9 season. Speaking of that do you remember all that incessant babbling you did supporting Jeff fisher and how a winning season 14 years ago proved he was a winning coach despite always shitting the bed? I do. I'll try to bump it later so we can reflect together on the beauty of our comments. The passion we shared on the subject was electrifying.

Did you really just say Robert Quinn is overrated?

I'll answer for you. Quinn is still arguably the best 4-3 DE in the game. Dumb comment.

Glad you finally came around and admitted that the Rams are more talented....and I also cannot wait for the end of Jeff Fisher as the Rams coach.

Bailey, while not a great WR, would look far better on a team with an actual QB. I'd venture to say he would look damn good in Arizona with that offense.

His comment about Jeff Fisher was directed towards Rex, whose lips are superglued to Jeff Fisher's gluttials. BTW, just for kicks, here's a fun little factoid: in the last 25 years, the Cardinals have more winning seasons (6) than the Rams (4).

 

[rideaducati]

Arizona could also argue that they got shafted against the Rams.

Which means fans could explain both of their losses away by blaming the refs.

Seattle has gotten the favorable end of two calls in the past 4 years that have, quite literally, won them those two games. I'm not arguing anything here...just pointing out that the two calls were questionable and both times Seattle got the benefit. So you have what you perceive to be unbiased officiating in this game and won't stop harking on about it???

If all calls were properly made, you MIGHT have beat Arizona. A lot of those calls were legit, and some of the Seahawk fans on this very board have said as much. But if all calls were properly made, you'd likely have one less win and one more win, and Arizona would likely have two less wins and two less losses....making your records the exact same as they are, with the only difference being your division records and head to head match up....which is important....but again, not one of you can prove that you would have actually won the game - so why complain about it?? Penalties or not, your "defense" got torched at home.

I wasn't speaking of the calls that went against the Seahawks so much as the cards not being called for their choke holds on Bennett and Avril on just about every pass play. I don't mind the penalties being called...just be consistent with the calls for BOTH teams.

 

[ClutchDJ]

The rules are already ridiculously skewed in favor of the QB and the WRs so a passing team like AZ should be 11-0. Thank goodness what is left of the Rams will hang a third loss on 'Ol Wobbly Jowls! But then there's the refs.....

What's left of the Rams. Looking at your injury report it looks like you guys are pretty healthy. Minus the WR who got shot in the head who's got as much talent as a mop bucket and two DL who are quite frankly overrated.

If we had the talent the Rams have we'd be 11-0. Shit, Jeff fisher could use a pro bowl roster on offense and defense and play against community colleges and still find his way to a 7-9 season. Speaking of that do you remember all that incessant babbling you did supporting Jeff fisher and how a winning season 14 years ago proved he was a winning coach despite always shitting the bed? I do. I'll try to bump it later so we can reflect together on the beauty of our comments. The passion we shared on the subject was electrifying.

Robert Quinn is far from overrated my man.

 

[ringless]

I know, I was being facetious about their DL.

 

[Rex]

The rules are already ridiculously skewed in favor of the QB and the WRs so a passing team like AZ should be 11-0. Thank goodness what is left of the Rams will hang a third loss on 'Ol Wobbly Jowls! But then there's the refs.....

What's left of the Rams. Looking at your injury report it looks like you guys are pretty healthy. Minus the WR who got shot in the head who's got as much talent as a mop bucket and two DL who are quite frankly overrated.

If we had the talent the Rams have we'd be 11-0. Shit, Jeff fisher could use a pro bowl roster on offense and defense and play against community colleges and still find his way to a 7-9 season. Speaking of that do you remember all that incessant babbling you did supporting Jeff fisher and how a winning season 14 years ago proved he was a winning coach despite always shitting the bed? I do. I'll try to bump it later so we can reflect together on the beauty of our comments. The passion we shared on the subject was electrifying.

Pretty healthy? You are babbling. No QB. No O line. One WR in critical condition. Best WR a 3rd down guy just off the street. Defense looks to be without Quinn again. You think Quinn is "overrated"? I'll gladly trade WR corps since you think you could win with the Rams WRs. The reality of your comments are that of a far too sensitive sort whose team has a 3 game lead with 5 to play yet knows from past experience that isn't safe. Yes the storied history of the Dirty Desert Birdies. :0190l:

 

[Rex]

The rules are already ridiculously skewed in favor of the QB and the WRs so a passing team like AZ should be 11-0. Thank goodness what is left of the Rams will hang a third loss on 'Ol Wobbly Jowls! But then there's the refs.....

What's left of the Rams. Looking at your injury report it looks like you guys are pretty healthy. Minus the WR who got shot in the head who's got as much talent as a mop bucket and two DL who are quite frankly overrated.

If we had the talent the Rams have we'd be 11-0. Shit, Jeff fisher could use a pro bowl roster on offense and defense and play against community colleges and still find his way to a 7-9 season. Speaking of that do you remember all that incessant babbling you did supporting Jeff fisher and how a winning season 14 years ago proved he was a winning coach despite always shitting the bed? I do. I'll try to bump it later so we can reflect together on the beauty of our comments. The passion we shared on the subject was electrifying.

Did you really just say Robert Quinn is overrated?

Yes he did. :lol:

 

[Rex]

His comment about Jeff Fisher was directed towards Rex, whose lips are superglued to Jeff Fisher's gluttials. BTW, just for kicks, here's a fun little factoid: in the last 25 years, the Cardinals have more winning seasons (6) than the Rams (4).

Yet one less NFC Championship and NO SUPERBOWLS. :lol: